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Grey Templar wrote: If you didn't believe in the document, the entire document, maybe you shouldn't have signed up to protect it and its people in the first place.
The fact you think The United States citizens belong to the Constitutions is disturbing, nobody in this country owes there life or their freedoms to a political document.
If you think something that is a inanimate object deserves total unquestioning devotion then you have an Issue I could never hope to address.
A piece of paper that can be burnt, or ripped up, or simply ignored is not whats stopping tyranny, chaos and suffering, it's people, it's the guy who works at the justice department doing his best to fight discrimination, it's the soldier who dies to protect his people, it's the man at the FBI trying to catch a serial killer, it's the man in the CIA doing his best to promote US interests, it's the guy in FEMA who wades into disaster zones to help people hes never met, it's the president who tries to keep this country afloat despite all the crap thrown at him.
The Government is not made up of space aliens and Lizard people. It's made of people like me, like you, like all of us.
To claim what has stopped tyranny and oppression in this country is a document signed by a bunch of men to dead to care (and I mean care about what we do now) is to marginalize the sacrifices of every person who has worked to make the idea of a free nation a reality.
The United States isn't about Freedom, it's about people. The idea of a government that is run for the people, comprised of the people, and takes it power from the people is what America is about not obfuscating out of date political documents formed from a political comprise.
So yeah, my loyalties don't lie with documents. They lie with people, I would rather support a living breathing person than a faceless scribble of political ideals that's no more helpful in feeding a hungry family than it is in stopping a dictator who, I'm pretty sure, would be rather unmoved by the condemnations a old document lays upon him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 00:18:05
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I never said or claimed they did.
But those people have put forth a document demonstrating their ideals. Swearing loyalty to that document is swearing loyalty to them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 00:20:47
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
You have no argument though. Calling me an 18 year old that is "wide eyed and naive" just reasserts the fact rather than put time or effort into trying to refute my points or engage in debate and discussion over an interesting topic you would just throw insults around.
"
So far in this thread you've been wrong about:
1. The principles of libertarianism. You have no clue what they are and claim everything you know is from other 18 year olds who are just as likely to change their political affiliation to get some ass as they are to get drunk on a Friday night. This has been pointed out by a number of people.
2. The "unchanging" constitution. As I said, it's officially changed 27 times. It has provisions built into it to allow for such change. Further, you seem to lack a basic understanding of why those who "cling" to the bill of rights do so, despite multiple people explaining it to you.
3. The basic understanding of gun laws in the United States. You seem to have no idea what's involved in the background check process or, really, any basic gun ownership rights or responsibilities. With that in mind, in first thankful that you don't own a firearm yourself, but am terrified at the prospect of you being responsible for one in ROTC.
I mean, that's just off the top of my head. If I dig back a few pages, I'm sure I'll find more.
Like I said, you're 18. You think you know everything. You took your freshman level poli-sci class and now think you know everything there is to know about government and the constitution. It's okay. But were you a bit more mature, you'd do more hearing than waiting for your turn to talk and realize that nearly every "point" you've "made" in this thread has been directly addressed by someone with more knowledge and experience than you.
A piece of paper that can be burnt, or ripped up, or simply ignored is not whats stopping tyranny, chaos and suffering, it's people, it's the guy who works at the justice department doing his best to fight discrimination, it's the soldier who dies to protect his people, it's the man at the FBI trying to catch a serial killer, it's the man in the CIA doing his best to promote US interests, it's the guy in FEMA who wades into disaster zones to help people hes never met, it's the president who tries to keep this country afloat despite all the crap thrown at him.
To claim what has stopped tyranny and oppression in this country is a document signed by a bunch of men to dead to care (and I mean care about what we do now) is to marginalize the sacrifices of every person who has worked to make the idea of a free nation a reality.
No, it's the people fighting to uphold those rights granted to us by the Constitution that have stopped tyranny and oppression. It is the principles of that document that make the United States the most free country In the world, with citizens granted the utmost liberty to pursue life and happiness.
The United States isn't about Freedom, it's about people. The idea of a government that is run for the people, comprised of the people, and takes it power from the people is what America is about not obfuscating out of date political documents formed from a political comprise.
The ignorance in this statement is astounding, especially today. The United States government is no longer compromised "of the people" and hasn't been the day the first person declared their aspiration was to be a politician. Our founding fathers weren't politicians. They were soldiers and lawyers and publishers and thinkers and dreamers and were firstly "of the people". And for all of those reasons if becomes even more necessary that we the people, the actual people, do everything we can to maintain our freedoms, our liberty, while those who think they know better than us try and wrestle them away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 00:31:51
So yeah, my loyalties don't lie with documents. They lie with people, I would rather support a living breathing person than a faceless scribble of political ideals that's no more helpful in feeding a hungry family than it is in stopping a dictator who, I'm pretty sure, would be rather unmoved by the condemnations a old document lays upon him.
Yeah, as others who are also military/prior-military, you should probably get out while you can.... If you paid even the slightest bit of attention to your oath, or what it means, you'd quickly realize that yes, you are defending the People first, but as the People are protected by a "faceless scribble of political ideals" as you call it, obviously you're trying to get the tail that comes with the Trademarked "Ranger Panties"
With the family history you say you have, I'm VERY surprised you take this view on the Constitution and our rights as Americans. As a person, you can certainly question the validity of certain elements of any aspect of our US Government, however as a Soldier/ Officer, you have to uphold the RAW of the Constitution, and cannot question it.
So yeah, my loyalties don't lie with documents. They lie with people, I would rather support a living breathing person than a faceless scribble of political ideals that's no more helpful in feeding a hungry family than it is in stopping a dictator who, I'm pretty sure, would be rather unmoved by the condemnations a old document lays upon him.
I submit you reread the oath you allegedly took. It is in one of my posts on the previous page.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
At this point I think he's trolling on purpose. No one is that ignorant about the importance of the Constitution in the American way of life. It defines what our beliefs are. Everyone is held to it, even the President.
As for my slippery slope parable, It's not slippery slope because I was talking about the past and what has happened already. if I was talking about the future, then sure, but I was talking about the past and showing a pattern.
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
But those people have put forth a document demonstrating their ideals. Swearing loyalty to that document is swearing loyalty to them.
You do know that the Constitution isn't about ideals right? The bill of rights is a federal regulation plan that was written to appease Jefferson and his braying party members.
You're making the fething thing out to be way more than it really is. The bill of rights is not some document that represents all American ideals, you know why? Because you would be shocked to find how unpopular the second amendment is with victims of gun violence. You would be shocked to find that people's ideals vary person to person.
We have a system of government, a democratic republic, if you want your ideals represented you vote for someone who shares them or run yourself.
The fact that anyone would swear loyalty to a document a bunch of dead men wrote is wrong, nobody should be forced to swear to be loyal to a document that self admits it's not perfect and it's author outright stated that it should not form just more chains to stop the countries governmental progress later on is wrong.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 01:28:47
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Alexzandvar wrote: nobody should be forced to swear to be loyal to a document that self admits it's not perfect and it's author outright stated that it should not form just more chains to stop the countries governmental progress later on is wrong.
And nobody is being forced to do it. But you apparently did so voluntarily.
And the Constitution is most certainly about ideals. People came together and collectively put it together. And collectively they can change it too. Individual beliefs can vary of course. But you better not make an oath to that document, that the citizens came together and collectively made, unless you are willing to stand by it. You're free to not take that oath.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
carlos13th wrote: Yeah I would say that home invasion is a different to someone holding you up for your wallet in the street for example.
I didn't know about those particular studies Fraz will have to check them out. Do you have links to them?
I will look. I swear it was on NPR of all places a few years ago or something. We tried it at the house and its surprising. ESPECIALLY if the person who's already drawn gets talking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
At 18, he's not commissioned yet. At best his scholarship gets pulled.
Sorry I meant his ROTC commission and scholarship. You're very correct.
No worries!!
Back to defensive gun use, Id read that about 1/4 of the time, the firearm is used outside the home in self defense. One of the reasons I carry in the house.
You have no argument though. Calling me an 18 year old that is "wide eyed and naive" just reasserts the fact rather than put time or effort into trying to refute my points or engage in debate and discussion over an interesting topic you would just throw insults around.
"
So far in this thread you've been wrong about:
1. The principles of libertarianism. You have no clue what they are and claim everything you know is from other 18 year olds who are just as likely to change their political affiliation to get some ass as they are to get drunk on a Friday night. This has been pointed out by a number of people.
2. The "unchanging" constitution. As I said, it's officially changed 27 times. It has provisions built into it to allow for such change. Further, you seem to lack a basic understanding of why those who "cling" to the bill of rights do so, despite multiple people explaining it to you.
3. The basic understanding of gun laws in the United States. You seem to have no idea what's involved in the background check process or, really, any basic gun ownership rights or responsibilities. With that in mind, in first thankful that you don't own a firearm yourself, but am terrified at the prospect of you being responsible for one in ROTC.
I mean, that's just off the top of my head. If I dig back a few pages, I'm sure I'll find more.
Like I said, you're 18. You think you know everything. You took your freshman level poli-sci class and now think you know everything there is to know about government and the constitution. It's okay. But were you a bit more mature, you'd do more hearing than waiting for your turn to talk and realize that nearly every "point" you've "made" in this thread has been directly addressed by someone with more knowledge and experience than you.
A piece of paper that can be burnt, or ripped up, or simply ignored is not whats stopping tyranny, chaos and suffering, it's people, it's the guy who works at the justice department doing his best to fight discrimination, it's the soldier who dies to protect his people, it's the man at the FBI trying to catch a serial killer, it's the man in the CIA doing his best to promote US interests, it's the guy in FEMA who wades into disaster zones to help people hes never met, it's the president who tries to keep this country afloat despite all the crap thrown at him.
To claim what has stopped tyranny and oppression in this country is a document signed by a bunch of men to dead to care (and I mean care about what we do now) is to marginalize the sacrifices of every person who has worked to make the idea of a free nation a reality.
No, it's the people fighting to uphold those rights granted to us by the Constitution that have stopped tyranny and oppression. It is the principles of that document that make the United States the most free country In the world, with citizens granted the utmost liberty to pursue life and happiness.
The United States isn't about Freedom, it's about people. The idea of a government that is run for the people, comprised of the people, and takes it power from the people is what America is about not obfuscating out of date political documents formed from a political comprise.
The ignorance in this statement is astounding, especially today. The United States government is no longer compromised "of the people" and hasn't been the day the first person declared their aspiration was to be a politician. Our founding fathers weren't politicians. They were soldiers and lawyers and publishers and thinkers and dreamers and were firstly "of the people". And for all of those reasons if becomes even more necessary that we the people, the actual people, do everything we can to maintain our freedoms, our liberty, while those who think they know better than us try and wrestle them away.
You are either trolling or are legit kidding yourself with this statement. You do know about the continental congress right? You again ignored my statement that the document was written not in the interest of liberty but in the interest of politics. The fact the Bill of Rights and the Constitution itself being the result of a rather intense political battle is something you can find in pretty much any book about the Constitution itself.
Not to mention the fact you seem to think the government is just the legislative branch, Joe from Accounting at the EPA doesn't run on a platform for his fething desk job.
I also mentioned multiple times that yes, the Constitution had been amended, I never made the claim was a totally unchangeable thing, in fact, I said we need to change a lot about it.
If you also do actually think this country is the most free country in the world you need a reality check and trip around western europe. We are not some last bastion of freedom. We are a country that stands among many .
It's also pretty funny you think the USA is so much better than the rest of the world. Because as we know rampant nationalism and the belief your country is better than all others could never ever turn into something horrible .
So yeah, my loyalties don't lie with documents. They lie with people, I would rather support a living breathing person than a faceless scribble of political ideals that's no more helpful in feeding a hungry family than it is in stopping a dictator who, I'm pretty sure, would be rather unmoved by the condemnations a old document lays upon him.
Yeah, as others who are also military/prior-military, you should probably get out while you can.... If you paid even the slightest bit of attention to your oath, or what it means, you'd quickly realize that yes, you are defending the People first, but as the People are protected by a "faceless scribble of political ideals" as you call it, obviously you're trying to get the tail that comes with the Trademarked "Ranger Panties"
With the family history you say you have, I'm VERY surprised you take this view on the Constitution and our rights as Americans. As a person, you can certainly question the validity of certain elements of any aspect of our US Government, however as a Soldier/ Officer, you have to uphold the RAW of the Constitution, and cannot question it.
That my friends, is tyranny.
The irony dawn on you yet? You literally just said, that despite putting my life on the line for a document, I can not also question that document.
"arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MWHistorian wrote: At this point I think he's trolling on purpose. No one is that ignorant about the importance of the Constitution in the American way of life. It defines what our beliefs are. Everyone is held to it, even the President.
As for my slippery slope parable, It's not slippery slope because I was talking about the past and what has happened already. if I was talking about the future, then sure, but I was talking about the past and showing a pattern.
Yes how ignorant of me to dare question previous notions.
Yeah those damn yankee revolutionaries and there ignorance of the British colonial way of life!
I post that song because the rampant anti-intellectualism in this thread makes me feel like I took a time machine back to Inquisitorial Spain.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 01:53:59
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
The irony dawn on you yet? You literally just said, that despite putting my life on the line for a document, I can not also question that document.
If you go back and re-read what I put down, you'd see what I actually said.... You, as an individual person, can question the Constitution and the validity of many of its aspects.... BUT!!!! many of us are Soldiers/Sailors, etc. and as we wear the uniform representing our country we cannot do so in the same manner. This is because some people are idiots, and if they see a Uniform saying "X amendment is BS, it should go away" they take it as meaning the US GOVT thinks it should go away. As such, if tomorrow, I went into my Company and was given the order, "Go with X squad to these streets, knock on, or knock down all the doors and confiscate the firearms you find" I would, by oath, and regulation be REQUIRED to not follow it. In your head, you should question that order, because you are already questioning the validity of the "piece of paper"
Is it perfect? No, and the guys' who wrote it knew it... But at the same time, they felt, and many of us still feel that is the best there is AT THE MOMENT.... If you come up with a 100% better governing system/legal system, etc. you be sure to get it out there, so we can all get straight into it.
I have a php function laying around somewhere for generating a square graphic with arbitrary text on it. It could likely be modified for exactly such a purpose.
Needs to have $font set to an appropriate font of where you keep them. Different if you're hosting it in windows. Beyond that, it's just a matter of setting a bunch of strings in an array and calling a random number generator to hit something in that array. The awesome graphics you created a while back would probably require further tinkering.
I could probably get it together at work sometime while bored, unless you want to have a crack at it first.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 02:38:58
The irony dawn on you yet? You literally just said, that despite putting my life on the line for a document, I can not also question that document.
If you go back and re-read what I put down, you'd see what I actually said.... You, as an individual person, can question the Constitution and the validity of many of its aspects.... BUT!!!! many of us are Soldiers/Sailors, etc. and as we wear the uniform representing our country we cannot do so in the same manner. This is because some people are idiots, and if they see a Uniform saying "X amendment is BS, it should go away" they take it as meaning the US GOVT thinks it should go away. As such, if tomorrow, I went into my Company and was given the order, "Go with X squad to these streets, knock on, or knock down all the doors and confiscate the firearms you find" I would, by oath, and regulation be REQUIRED to not follow it. In your head, you should question that order, because you are already questioning the validity of the "piece of paper"
Is it perfect? No, and the guys' who wrote it knew it... But at the same time, they felt, and many of us still feel that is the best there is AT THE MOMENT.... If you come up with a 100% better governing system/legal system, etc. you be sure to get it out there, so we can all get straight into it.
It's not the best here at the moment, not even close, because 1 man in the senate can stand up and filibuster a raising of the debt ceiling and cause the destruction of the Western economy. That is broken, that's tyranny, one man can destroy economy, prevent budgets passing, hold up anything his given political creed defines as bad with out any way to stop him in the currently way the system is set up.
Super majorities are very hard to reach anymore, and your sure as hell not going to get one right now to help fix the Constitution through the amendment process.
and yes in my head I can question the constitution, but the fact as a soldier I cannot openly criticize it or recommend changes to it is a far more tyrannical thing then any gun confiscation.
It's very romantic to think that oaths are things than may never be broken, but well real life calls and then you will find people tend to hold on to things like Constitutions or oaths when the chips are down because neither of those things can feed your kids or keep them safe.
Admitting that our system of government needs a rethink is only the start, after it needs to come the realization that life isn't black or white or constitutional or unconstitutional. The day we can stand and be proud of our government not because of a aging political document but because of a peoples willingness to agree on what is right and what is wrong themselves in the forum of a Representative Republic system rather than be constrained by the political posturing of men who could have never predicted current events.
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
"one man can destroy economy, prevent budgets passing, hold up anything his given political creed defines as bad with out any way to stop him in the currently way the system is set up. "
They did just stop the Cruz (sp?) guy form Texas from filibustering the debt ceiling bill today. Granted I think it was more peer pressure then some sort of "You can't do that button/power" but they did.
If ignorance is bliss, then why aren't more people happy?
MWHistorian wrote: One thing pro gun control people don't understand about pro 2nd A people that 2nd A people are reluctant to budge an inch because its not going to stop with "just one more law." Once that law is in place, a new bill will be proposed and then its another slice taken away.
Here's a parable.
I like the story, illustrates the fear gun owners have quite well.
But consider a person who has a three quarters of a cake, having given away a quarter. And he's sitting there looking at the cake, and there's parts he doesn't actually want. One corner has gone manky, wet and dry at the same time in a way that only packet made cake can, and there's one of those sugary decoration that's technically edible, but everyone only makes that mistake once.
And then he sees that guy come back again, and he knows that jerk is going to ask for more of his cake. Well, now the cake owner has a choice. One option is to fight tooth and nail for every single bit of cake whether he actually wants it or not, and likely set up an antagonistic relationship with that guy that will likely trick that guy in to thinking he has to keep coming back for more and more cake no matter what. But another option is to actually open a real and meaningful dialogue with the other guy, and try and set up mutual respect on both sides to build a solution that works best for everyone. Talk about the bits of cake you don't even want, and then genuinely listen when the other cake owner talks about why he thinks certain bits of cake need to be taken away.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Gun grabbers had been grabbing slices of our 2A cake for some time now. Just as they were at the cusp of taking the last slices, gun owners woke up, slapped the greedy lil hands of the gun grabbers and told them to pound sand. Hence the wailing from the gun grabbers side.
There can be no compromise where demonstrably, the other side wants you gone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 02:54:18
CptJake wrote: Many county and municipality police departments are fielding armored cars and swat teams. How much more funding do you thing they need? Has the vast expenditure of dollars to date had an effect in line with the resources spent? What makes you think MOAR is the answer?
There is wildly varying funding levels between police departments. And too often funding gets put in to unecessary toys, instead of practical but unexciting stuff like training and additional staff.
That said, policing on the whole is a red herring when it comes to explaining the murder rate in the US. Despite the complaints from so many US posters, standards of policing in the US are fine, in comparison to other developed countries. While countries like Brazil can point to their corrupt and frequently incompetent policing and explain it as a major driver of their murder rate, that makes no sense in the US.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
And for the record If confiscating guns would feed more people, and help economic improvement I would do it in a heart beat.
I would like to believe it's a soldiers job to fight for what is right, not to cave to the convenience of circumstance, not to cling to a a document that's experiation date is long passed as an excuse for inaction.
Call me a communist, or socialist, or a liberal or what ever. But the idea soldiers are not robots and are capable of independent thought, that given the extreme a soldier may act not in protection of a document but the protection of there people and their peoples welfare is not a bad one, it is rather the opposite, a noble one.
So if the time ever came I had chose between the Constitution and the Fed Gov. I would chose the Fed Gov. My fellow man comes first, I would not use the Constitution as an excuse not to maintain order.
History has shown us that anarchy and chaos always destroy far more than any corrupt government. You want to know how to run the government huh? Start with system restricted not by men or a god, but by science, fact, and how we can serve our fellow man better.
Some of you should watch some Star Trek episodes, but I guess there all filthy communists to you, or oath breakers because they disobey the prime directive in extreme situations.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 03:10:17
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
Attempting to use the existance of some people who would ban guns or allow them only under permit means that such a thing is a likely political end is ludicrous. You live a country where a requirement for a background check couldn't win a vote... and you think that all of a sudden people are going to lurch towards an outright ban on guns.
You have to get a lot more sensible about this. There is an actual reality to this debate that needs to be recognised.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Alexzandvar wrote: And for the record If confiscating guns would feed more people, and help economic improvement I would do it in a heart beat.
Whats awesome is how that that statement has absolutely nothing to do with anything, yet is terrifying. Oh and I am sure you would in your hypothetical. But then again, in your hypothetical, I'd shoot you in the face for trying.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/13 03:05:16
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
CptJake wrote: Many county and municipality police departments are fielding armored cars and swat teams. How much more funding do you thing they need? Has the vast expenditure of dollars to date had an effect in line with the resources spent? What makes you think MOAR is the answer?
There is wildly varying funding levels between police departments. And too often funding gets put in to unecessary toys, instead of practical but unexciting stuff like training and additional staff.
That said, policing on the whole is a red herring when it comes to explaining the murder rate in the US. Despite the complaints from so many US posters, standards of policing in the US are fine, in comparison to other developed countries. While countries like Brazil can point to their corrupt and frequently incompetent policing and explain it as a major driver of their murder rate, that makes no sense in the US.
26FireGuy0369 wrote: "one man can destroy economy, prevent budgets passing, hold up anything his given political creed defines as bad with out any way to stop him in the currently way the system is set up. "
They did just stop the Cruz (sp?) guy form Texas from filibustering the debt ceiling bill today. Granted I think it was more peer pressure then some sort of "You can't do that button/power" but they did.
The point stands he still could have done it, it doesn't need to be Ted Cruz, and honestly Ted is far to career minded to make that political suicide.
No, it would more likely be someone like Rand Paul who would claim to do it on principle, regardless of the lives that would be destroyed by an total economic collapse.
It's interesting to note the last time the Constitution was changed was 1992, guess what it was?
"No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened."
A amendment to ensure congress never receives a pay cut
I can almost SMELL the freedom!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/13 03:24:08
"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?""
Attempting to use the existance of some people who would ban guns or allow them only under permit means that such a thing is a likely political end is ludicrous. You live a country where a requirement for a background check couldn't win a vote... and you think that all of a sudden people are going to lurch towards an outright ban on guns.
You have to get a lot more sensible about this. There is an actual reality to this debate that needs to be recognised.
Wish you were in the States then. Places like CA, NY (NYC) are seeing confiscation take place. THAT is the reality you seem to be missing.
Gun grabbers had been grabbing slices of our 2A cake for some time now. Just as they were at the cusp of taking the last slices, gun owners woke up, slapped the greedy lil hands of the gun grabbers and told them to pound sand. Hence the wailing from the gun grabbers side.
There can be no compromise where demonstrably, the other side wants you gone.
All you did was repeat the cake analogy, in a poorer form that it was originally posted.
And yes, some Americans want a total ban on guns, but go look up the polls. They're a tiny fraction of a percent. They are as irrelevant as the people who want legalised nuclear weapons. Simply declaring those people representative of the whole of the other side is hopelessly simplistic, and makes a sensible view of the realities of gun control absolutely impossible.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
They are trying to confiscate guns in Connecticut as well but having problems as no one is complying.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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