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 insaniak wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Isn't it "sold out" already anyway? How do you sell better than being out of stock?

By not producing the kit in small enough amounts that it will sell out so that you can artificially pad your investor report with another item that 'sold out' to prove you are doing well?


Seriously, without knowing the actual quantities involved, there is no way to equate selling 'out' with selling 'well'. I'm also working on the assumption that they'll still be selling it once they've made more...

Purportedly it's not that the kits are "all sold out" but rather that shipments had to be diverted to cover missing/delayed stock because of the weather--which in turn means that subsequent stock is going to have to be diverted to cover that diversion, etc.

A sold out product means you didn't charge enough or produce enough - not something investors want to hear.

Saxon wrote:
A sold out product means you didn't charge enough or produce enough - not something investors want to hear.

Well... I don't think you could accuse them of not charging enough, so it must be the latter

shade1313 wrote:
Again, it can quite handily be used if you play a traitor themed guard army.

I'm sure that's a comforting thought for all the CSM players out there.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Purportedly it's not that the kits are "all sold out" but rather that shipments had to be diverted to cover missing/delayed stock because of the weather--which in turn means that subsequent stock is going to have to be diverted to cover that diversion, etc.

No matter which of the two reasons it is the Knight isn't 'sold out', making Breotan's argument no more or less disingenuous than it was when he first said it, nor Zwei's follow-up any less of a red herring.

shade1313 wrote:

 sub-zero wrote:

Thachng wrote:
well here is one way to make it larger this is the Australia QLD townsville GW

Spoiler:

Why am I seeing all of these Chaos conversions of Knights, if they aren't legally allowed to ally with Chaos? Hmmmm...........

Could fit quite handily in with a "traitor" IG army.

I'm planning on building my first Knight straight, likely painting as the Obsidian Knight, to get familiar with the kit before I do any conversions, but it's quite likely I will be doing a chaosed up version for my traitor guard after that.

Or you could just play it with your Chaos Space Marines and not give a rats arse about the chart. Seriously, it's your hobby dollars so why the hell shouldn't you do what you want with the model? The only restriction (other than the tournament scene) will be whether your opponent is okay with it or not. If he/she is, then have fun. Otherwise you have a cool conversion/centerpiece for your army. 'Nids can't ally with anyone but if someone converted up a cool Genestealer Cult army, I'd certainly play against them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Purportedly it's not that the kits are "all sold out" but rather that shipments had to be diverted to cover missing/delayed stock because of the weather--which in turn means that subsequent stock is going to have to be diverted to cover that diversion, etc.

No matter which of the two reasons it is the Knight isn't 'sold out', making Breotan's argument no more or less disingenuous than it was when he first said it, nor Zwei's follow-up any less of a red herring.

My argument isn't disingenuous at all. I was told that the kit had sold out worldwide. Hearsay and not hard data? Sure. Most of the stuff discussed on these forums is. Disingenuous? No.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Purportedly it's not that the kits are "all sold out" but rather that shipments had to be diverted to cover missing/delayed stock because of the weather--which in turn means that subsequent stock is going to have to be diverted to cover that diversion, etc.

No matter which of the two reasons it is the Knight isn't 'sold out', making Breotan's argument no more or less disingenuous than it was when he first said it, nor Zwei's follow-up any less of a red herring.

You are aware that as of this moment the Knight is listed as "despatching in one to two weeks" on the US and UK sites, right?

Saying it's "sold out" is not unreasonable given that information--and that most shops in the US no longer have them on their shelves.

Holy gak, same on the Northern Europe store site, well crap.

 Breotan wrote:
Or you could just play it with your Chaos Space Marines and not give a rats arse about the chart.

Yeah... people keep saying that in this thread and it basically amounts to: Just ignore the rules!

Sorry, but no. You don't just get to ignore the rules 'cause you feel like it nor because you went and bought a fancy new model. It's all well and good to ask your friends if you can use your Knight in your CSM army, or your Ork army or whatever, but for the large amount of people who play games of 40K as pick-up games or for the people playing in tournaments "Damned the rules, full speed ahead" isn't a viable solution.

 Breotan wrote:
I was told that the kit had sold out worldwide.

And believed it on face value. Reports of delayed shipments and emergency air-freight have been around for a couple of days now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You are aware that as of this moment the Knight is listed as "despatching in one to two weeks" on the US and UK sites, right?

Saying it's "sold out" is not unreasonable given that information--and that most shops in the US no longer have them on their shelves.

Sheilds down boy'o. We know the reason for the delay.

Here's what the US web site says:

Availability:

This product is expected to despatch in one to two weeks.

Usually it'd say 24 hours if it were still in stock. ...like it does in Australia. Hmmm... Guess my informant's definition of "worldwide" doesn't include the land down under.

EDIT: Dang, they're even sold out in Canada where they price gouging is crazy on this kit.

Great!

But we already know the reasons, and "Totes sorry HHHobbiests, the ship's running late" isn't really something GW broadcasts.

I'm not blaming GW for this - the cargo container is late, that happens and it means everything on that ship is late, not just your precious precious Knights - but it's not sold out due to an overwhelming success. It's sold out because a good portion of the stock they made isn't in stores yet.

Well, on the bright side, the Warhammer Visions is also late.

Sorry, H.B.M.C. in this case, "damn the rules" is quite fitting. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Sorry, H.B.M.C. in this case, "damn the rules" is quite fitting. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

There's also no reason Chaos Marines shouldn't be allowed to use razorbacks, redeemers, land speeders, storm ravens, or centurions either... But for the most part, people just accept that the rules don't allow it, and that Chaos gets other toys instead.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Sorry, H.B.M.C. in this case, "damn the rules" is quite fitting. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

How dare you sir! You will sit and wait to buy your $50 Chaos Knight Codex when GW decides you deserve it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and anyone making "knight" bases yet? Get on that 3rd party peoples.

 plastictrees wrote:
Oh, and anyone making "knight" bases yet? Get on that 3rd party peoples.

I can imagine the 3rd party guys looking at that base and slowly shaking their head while they /facepalm.

 insaniak wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Sorry, H.B.M.C. in this case, "damn the rules" is quite fitting. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

There's also no reason Chaos Marines shouldn't be allowed to use razorbacks, redeemers, land speeders, storm ravens, or centurions either... But for the most part, people just accept that the rules don't allow it, and that Chaos gets other toys instead.

Not really...

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

Are you intentionally trying to miss the point?

It doesn’t matter whether you think there should be Chaos Knights or not. Right now there aren’t any because that’s what the rules say, and whilst “screw GW’s official rules” might be A-ok for your little gaming group – and I can’t believe I’m having to repeat this – it is not going to be ok for random pick-up games at stores or in tournaments.

Am I getting through to you?

 insaniak wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Sorry, H.B.M.C. in this case, "damn the rules" is quite fitting. There's no reason Chaos shouldn't be allowed to use Knights, so, yeah, screw GW's official rules, considering in their own rulebook they tell you to do that anyway.

There's also no reason Chaos Marines shouldn't be allowed to use razorbacks, redeemers, land speeders, storm ravens, or centurions either... But for the most part, people just accept that the rules don't allow it, and that Chaos gets other toys instead.

The big difference here is that we're talking allies and not something systemic to the army. Although, to be honest, I wouldn't object to a chaosified razorback or land speeder in my opponent's army if it looked cool. Tournament organizers would slap that down, so you'd have to decide what is important to you, I guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
...it is not going to be ok for random pick-up games at stores or in tournaments.

Not at tournaments but I'm sure you could get plenty of pick-up games at stores as long as you inform your opponent about what you're doing. Yes, there will be the obstinate fellow who will pitch a fit, but most people (based solely on the people I know in my area) should be fine with it.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Not really...

Spoiler:

Wow. You found a picture of some converted models. Congratulations.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Not really...

Spoiler:

Wow. You found a picture of some converted models. Congratulations.

Why you so negative about all this? Not like you're being forced to play against them. If someone wants to run Nids with their Necrons and you don't like it, then don't play a game with them. They'll either find someone who doesn't care and have a great time, or they won't and will adjust to the local scene out of peer pressure. Either way, relax, it's all good.

 Breotan wrote:
The big difference here is that we're talking allies and not something systemic to the army.

How is that a meaningful distinction? By that logic you might as well ignore the entire point of the allies chart (it's broken-ness notwithstanding) and ally anything with anything. After all, it's just allies right, and not something systemic to the army?

 Breotan wrote:
Although, to be honest, I wouldn't object to a chaosified razorback or land speeder in my opponent's army if it looked cool. Tournament organizers would slap that down, so you'd have to decide what is important to you, I guess.

Neither would I. And the idea of Knight Households that sided with Horus during the Heresy or fell to Chaos either by choice or by accident during the subsequent 10,000 years isn't just within the realm of possibility but something I'd call a certainty.

But. That's. Not. The. Point.

The point is that the rules say what armies these can be part of, and any argument to the contrary is an argument for actually breaking the rules, which as I've said a thousand times already is perfectly ok with your own friends, but it isn't always going to fly at in a pickup game with a random person at a store or in a tournament. It's not about what's "important to you", it's simply a matter of some very black and white rules. What you do with your friends is your own deal, but not everyone wants to or even can play that way.

 Breotan wrote:
Not at tournaments but I'm sure you could get plenty of pick-up games at stores as long as you inform your opponent about what you're doing. Yes, there will be the obstinate fellow who will pitch a fit, but most people (based solely on the people I know in my area) should be fine with it.

So, you want to cheat (which is what breaking the rules is) and if your opponent won't let you, he is the dick?

Okaaaaaaaay.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


The point is that the rules say what armies these can be part of, and any argument to the contrary is an argument for actually breaking the rules, which as I've said a thousand times already is perfectly ok with your own friends, but it isn't always going to fly at in a pickup game with a random person at a store or in a tournament. It's not about what's "important to you", it's simply a matter of some very black and white rules. What you do with your friends is your own deal, but not everyone wants to or even can play that way.

Maybe you should try bringing those Chaos Centurions and Chaos Knights of yours to a store / pick-up game more often. You might be surprised.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Maybe you should try bringing those Chaos Centurions and Chaos Knights of yours to a store / pick-up game more often. You might be surprised.

*headdesk*

See, now I know you're just trying to be obtuse.

Thud wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Not at tournaments but I'm sure you could get plenty of pick-up games at stores as long as you inform your opponent about what you're doing. Yes, there will be the obstinate fellow who will pitch a fit, but most people (based solely on the people I know in my area) should be fine with it.

So, you want to cheat (which is what breaking the rules is) and if your opponent won't let you, he is the dick?

Okaaaaaaaay.

If I can use your reply as a case study, then yes. Most people who decline to play "illegal" armies like that are just fine to do so. I'm saying that outside the tournament scene it really isn't that big a deal.

Picked up the two Knight issues from White Dwarf weekly today. I am liking the hints they drop about the fluff regarding how advanced these suits are and that even the Ad-Mech doesn't seem to comprehend them and wants nothing more than to strip them for their tech.

Yea, iirc that's a pretty big change from the original fluff where the AdMech made these for the Knight worlds.

 Breotan wrote:
Yea, iirc that's a pretty big change from the original fluff where the AdMech made these for the Knight worlds.

Not really (I think)

The (pre-heresy) Mechanicum made them thousands of years ago. The 40K Mechanicus would like to get their hands on them and reverse-engineer? Seems fine, no?

I think you're missing the point. That's exactly what I'm saying. I say it should be okay with random pick up games. If I say, "hey, alright if I use chaos land speeders?" (or whatever.) I'd wager that very few would ever refuse and those that do would probably TFG anyway.

edit: and stop being so bloody negative, its starting to sound irrational.

 Breotan wrote:
Here's what the US web site says:

Availability:

This product is expected to despatch in one to two weeks.

Usually it'd say 24 hours if it were still in stock. ...like it does in Australia. Hmmm... Guess my informant's definition of "worldwide" doesn't include the land down under.

EDIT: Dang, they're even sold out in Canada where they price gouging is crazy on this kit.

As a different point of veiw to ponder:

In retail, we here all the time about a product being 'sold out', while we have tons of that Comic/GN/Model kit sitting on our shelves. Especially in cases where it just shipped. It just means that the manufacturer has no more to ship. And it sometimes does cause a bit of panic buying. But really, all those models have just been moved down one tier in the distribution to various retailers or subdistributors.

I take "sold out" with a grain of salt, until I see all of the product disappear off my stores shelves, and can't get more. I will be very happy if I sell out of the Knights I brought in.