Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

He's on life support claiming the lives of countless millions of psykers... No one knows if he'll ever be himself again and snap out of his life support necessity. If this was happening in the U.S. we would have pulled the plug already, and wouldn't have even sacrificed one person to this vegetable...

Yeah, it's a good thing that the Imperium is exactly like the US of the 21st century.

Oh wait.

It isn't.

If we need the the vegetable to travel in space we'd probably sacrifice anyone we had to

It's not that simple. He is powering the astronomicon, aka, the ability for the imperium to travel relatively safely in the warp. If they removed him, it would collapse, and so would the imperium of man. He is also stopping all of the lovely daemons from the warp from entering realspace so if again we removed him, the chaos gods will have a field day with the imperium.

Astronomicon. Without it, humans are lost.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
He's on life support claiming the lives of countless millions of psykers... No one knows if he'll ever be himself again and snap out of his life support necessity. If this was happening in the U.S. we would have pulled the plug already, and wouldn't have even sacrificed one person to this vegetable...

You know, it says a lot when the bloodiest, most oppressive regime imaginable places more importance on the life of a single person than the US.

Idiotic troll is idiotic; obvious.

Kharn745 wrote:
It's not that simple. He is powering the astronomicon, aka, the ability for the imperium to travel relatively safely in the warp. If they removed him, it would collapse, and so would the imperium of man. He is also stopping all of the lovely daemons from the warp from entering realspace so if again we removed him, the chaos gods will have a field day with the imperium.

Nothing wrong with daemons laying waste to the false emperor!

A good thing would be thought that humanity wouldn't have a god to worship, unshackling them from the constrains of religion

Pretty sure this would mean they also wouldn't fear technology anymore and throw this bs "machine spirit" out the window

[obligatory]HERESEY!!![/obligatory]

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
He's on life support claiming the lives of countless millions of psykers... No one knows if he'll ever be himself again and snap out of his life support necessity. If this was happening in the U.S. we would have pulled the plug already, and wouldn't have even sacrificed one person to this vegetable...

Maybe he also poops oil? Everyone is a winner!

If he really needs to go, he'll be fine. He's sat on the golden throne, hopefully there's a servitor around to grab the golden flush chain for him.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
He's on life support claiming the lives of countless millions of psykers... No one knows if he'll ever be himself again and snap out of his life support necessity. If this was happening in the U.S. we would have pulled the plug already, and wouldn't have even sacrificed one person to this vegetable...

You know, it says a lot when the bloodiest, most oppressive regime imaginable places more importance on the life of a single person than the US.

How can you say this when they throw away soul after soul to this man on life support?

Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
He's on life support claiming the lives of countless millions of psykers... No one knows if he'll ever be himself again and snap out of his life support necessity. If this was happening in the U.S. we would have pulled the plug already, and wouldn't have even sacrificed one person to this vegetable...

You know, it says a lot when the bloodiest, most oppressive regime imaginable places more importance on the life of a single person than the US.

How can you say this when they throw away soul after soul to this man on life support?

You are missing the point - the reason why he is on life support is because he's their lighthouse.
If he were to die, then everyone in the Empire would die as well.

Anfauglir wrote:[obligatory]HERESEY!!![/obligatory]

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

You know, it says a lot when the bloodiest, most oppressive regime imaginable places more importance on the life of a single person than the US.

How can you say this when they throw away soul after soul to this man on life support?

The Emperor is no man, heretic. He is a god! Now prepare to be purged as is your due.

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

I was told if I worded things more politely I could remake this thread. I'm not trolling, I Actually am interested in this topic. So please, if you would wash the cheeto stains off your hands and if you don't have insight to add to this, then maybe move on?

in the context of keeping human civilization as we know it functioning, whats a few million people a year?

sounds callous but I'm quite serious. for the astronomicon alone, the sacrifices are almost certinly worth it

What in the name of Gork and Mork do Cheetos have to do with anything!?

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

I was told if I worded things more politely I could remake this thread. I'm not trolling, I Actually am interested in this topic. So please, if you would wash the cheeto stains off your hands and if you don't have insight to add to this, then maybe move on?

If you where interested in the topic, why not embellish your first post to make it a little less ''troll''-y because that is certainly what it looks like. You are using totally irrelevant facts about the US and applying them to a fantasy setting based thousands of years in the future, that will go well. Then you totally contradict yourself by saying you wouldn't sacrifice anyone to keep him alive, then later say their is nothing wrong with letting him die and having the ENTIRE IMPERIUM GO TO GAK as Daemons pop up and eat stuff and the lights go out. What is your point other then insulting someone (With a terrible insult btw, ''Cheeto stains''? Really??) who is pointing out obvious flaws in a thread with very little substance. If you are interested in the topic, state your opinion, your evidence and it's implications, 2 paragraphs at least, if you can't be bothered to articulate your point well why would you expect us to?

 Da krimson barun wrote:
What in the name of Gork and Mork do Cheetos have to do with anything!?

He likes to use it as an insult...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/569642.page#6367822

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Astronomicon. Without it, humans are lost.

Not even that, the Emperor is the little Dutch Boy with his finger in the damn, battling Chaos in the warp and attempting to hold the daemons back. Pull the plug and you just screwed every single person who isn't a Chaos cultist/champion immensely.

Plus it's not like the Emperor isn' unaware. If anything he's now a fairly large Warp God.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

I was told if I worded things more politely I could remake this thread. I'm not trolling, I Actually am interested in this topic. So please, if you would wash the cheeto stains off your hands and if you don't have insight to add to this, then maybe move on?

Like I said, quite happy to discuss things, but as the original post gave me flashbacks to the last thread I'm not sure you succeeded in changing the tone.

Anyway, yeah, considering the uncounted numbers who would starve, be horrifyingly slaughtered, get carried off by Dark Eldar, and so forth should Warp navigation become impossible, I'm gonna come down on the side that argues for the Golden Throne continuing in its operation as long as possible. The goal isn't to bring him back, it's to keep the Astronomican from disappearing. Lesser of two evils and all that.

It comes up a lot in this setting.

In truth, they aren't sacrificing lives for his sake. They're sacrificing lives for their own sake.

 Spinner wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

I was told if I worded things more politely I could remake this thread. I'm not trolling, I Actually am interested in this topic. So please, if you would wash the cheeto stains off your hands and if you don't have insight to add to this, then maybe move on?

Like I said, quite happy to discuss things, but as the original post gave me flashbacks to the last thread I'm not sure you succeeded in changing the tone.

Anyway, yeah, considering the uncounted numbers who would starve, be horrifyingly slaughtered, get carried off by Dark Eldar, and so forth should Warp navigation become impossible, I'm gonna come down on the side that argues for the Golden Throne continuing in its operation as long as possible. The goal isn't to bring him back, it's to keep the Astronomican from disappearing. Lesser of two evils and all that.

It comes up a lot in this setting.

Curious, how does warp navigation prevent all that you've stated? I must admit I have a lot of fluff to read up on.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

I was told if I worded things more politely I could remake this thread. I'm not trolling, I Actually am interested in this topic. So please, if you would wash the cheeto stains off your hands and if you don't have insight to add to this, then maybe move on?

Like I said, quite happy to discuss things, but as the original post gave me flashbacks to the last thread I'm not sure you succeeded in changing the tone.

Anyway, yeah, considering the uncounted numbers who would starve, be horrifyingly slaughtered, get carried off by Dark Eldar, and so forth should Warp navigation become impossible, I'm gonna come down on the side that argues for the Golden Throne continuing in its operation as long as possible. The goal isn't to bring him back, it's to keep the Astronomican from disappearing. Lesser of two evils and all that.

It comes up a lot in this setting.

Curious, how does warp navigation prevent all that you've stated? I must admit I have a lot of fluff to read up on.

Depending on the world you live on in the imperium you may not produce your own food.The other two reasons?without the guard and marines to come save them most planets in the Imperium can do Almost NOTHING against invaders(other then get PDF slaughtered)

Well, it's how you move between planets...no Astronomican means no "safe" way to navigate the Warp, means ships carrying everything from food for overpopulated hive worlds to Guardsmen on the way to fight the Tyranids can't get where they need to go. Or get eaten by daemons on the way there.

Imagine what would happen if modern transportation - cars, planes, trains, whatever - suddenly ceased to function. Now bring that up to a galactic scale, and add a crapton of religious hysteria and genocidal aliens on top of that. Not good times, is what I'm saying.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Curious, how does warp navigation prevent all that you've stated? I must admit I have a lot of fluff to read up on.

Without warp navigation, there is no Imperium. There are just a lot of unaffiliated planets. Any one of them easy pickings for the Xenos, the Mutant and the Heretic.

Without the Astronomicon allowing warp travel, first Cadia, then The Rock, Silence, Jaggafall and Draconith will fall. Then in an ever-expanding circle, sometimes bypassing worlds, sometimes wiping them all away... eventually, even Ophelia VII will fall, and then... it's only a matter of time until Sol itself is overwhelmed and destroyed, as the wolves pierce the gates and bring ruin to humankind.

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

We already canonically know what the Emperor would have wanted (assuming you take the BL HH series to be canon). The Emperor originally was able to guide the astronomicon without needing any souls, but even BEFORE the Horus Heresy ended, the Imperium grew too large for him to do so. Thus the psyker choir was created as a solution and thus psykers were dying to fuel the astronomicon by the Emperor's order, himself (I don't think souls were sacrificed/fed directly to it yet but am not sure, but the steps to that were already taken if the "psykers die to fuel it" procedure had already been started)

The Emperor was not happy with that solution but deemed it a temporary nescessity until his webway project was complete.

Given that the webway project was never completed (courtesy of Tzeentch and Magnus), I think the logical assumption would be that the Emperor would have wanted to keep it going until a better solution could be found. As a better solution is likely never going to come along at this rate (not unless the Emperor comes back to life, repairs the webway project, and gets it functioning), then what he would have wanted would be to keep it going, for the sake of the Imperium, considering he's the one that instituted it in the first place, even if as a necessary evil.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
Oh, hey. This exact thread again.

I mean, I'm all for a discussion on whether the constant sacrifices required to keep the Astronomican alight are worth it, or if it's what the Emperor would have wanted, or how people navigated the Warp before he was interred in the Golden Throne (actually quite curious about that, is it ever explained?), but this thread is not going places.

We already canonically know what the Emperor would have wanted (assuming you take the BL HH series to be canon). The Emperor originally was able to guide the astronomicon without needing any souls, but even BEFORE the Horus Heresy ended, the Imperium grew too large for him to do so. Thus the psyker choir was created as a solution and thus psykers were dying to fuel the astronomicon by the Emperor's order, himself (I don't think souls were sacrificed/fed directly to it yet but am not sure, but the steps to that were already taken if the "psykers die to fuel it" procedure had already been started)

The Emperor was not happy with that solution but deemed it a temporary nescessity until his webway project was complete.

Given that the webway project was never completed (courtesy of Tzeentch and Magnus), I think the logical assumption would be that the Emperor would have wanted to keep it going until a better solution could be found. As a better solution is likely never going to come along at this rate (not unless the Emperor comes back to life, repairs the webway project, and gets it functioning), then what he would have wanted would be to keep it going, for the sake of the Imperium, considering he's the one that instituted it in the first place, even if as a necessary evil.

What about infiltrating commoragh, and taking the Dark Eldars webway Tech?