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 Grot 6 wrote:
I'm not a fan of this project at all.

Figures are inconsistant, the "Chibi" figures look like old Muscle figures, and they really don't fit in in a patterned game, they just look like someone dumped a bunch of the muscle figures in a pile and thought it might make a good game.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/31625/brief-history-muscle-figures

That's allowed. Not everyone has to be. I thought the same thing and love them more because of it.

As to the shipping, CMON has plenty of experience, its not anything like using a crystal ball. Its a standard square box, pretty much the same size as any other of the million buck projects they pulled out of thier preverbial hats. Aside from the stutter steps, they will do all right for themselves strictly by name alone. ( Even if I'm not a fan of them, there are plenty of satisfied people that like thier logo, or something.)

If they were smart, they would get in on a shipping contact, or buy on into a shipping deal for thier products and call it a day. Its not like they can't afford it at this point.

Pretty sure they already do. Doesn't mean they can anticipate price hikes a year out from USPS, especially when they've come so consistently as of late. And just because they "can afford it" doesn't mean supplementing shipping should be a requirement.

To me, all that they want to take on the lions share of the gaming industry like a movie producer, guess the paying public gets to now see how they like shimming the S and H out of the KS projects and adding it to the bottom line...

Or, more reasonably, they don't want to take a huge loss for shipping like many other KS projects have in the past.

I don't really get it.

Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.

(a) With a far more diverse "warehouse-pick" from their complete inventory, rather than the "mono-product" packaging-line of a boxed-game KS like this.
(b) With far slimmer profit-margins as retailers, compared to sales made directly from the producer
(c) Over a far longer time-period than just "one shipment" (or two or three), but on a daily, recurring basis.
(d) Without money in the bank accruing interests months in advance, but with needing to ship as soon as the order is in.

Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.

So because some people sacrifice their profit margins all companies should?

I don't buy that.

Additionally, e-tailers aren't responsible for freighting things in, paying for large freight crates, etc.

I'm not sure I get the problem. It's simple math for me:

Retail at discount w/free shipping. Is the difference with the shipping estimate (shipping*1.33 for me) worth it for me to wait for retail. Yes or No.

That said the added heroes have to start factoring in to. I do wish the bunny had had a switchblade though....

 cincydooley wrote:
So because some people sacrifice their profit margins all companies should?

I don't buy that.

Additionally, e-tailers aren't responsible for freighting things in, paying for large freight crates, etc.

/shrug

What do freighting costs have to do with shipping individual boxes? How is "freighting things in" different to a box shipping to Australia than it is to a box shipping next door to CMON's warehouse in Atlanta(?)

And, as I said, CMON can do what they please, but it should be fair to compare them to people who evidently seem to be able to handle things more efficiently, effectively and cheaper. If CMON-backers are happy to pay more to suffer CMONs ineptitude, more power to them. Land of the Free.

Just noting that the competition seems to be doing better.

Coffee-shop 1 offers free wifi, and still making profit. The other coffee-shop 2 across the road asks you to pay 5 bucks. If you enjoy the other coffee-shop 2, do what you like. Land of the Free. It's simply worth pointing out that it is not impossible to operate like coffee-shop 1 and still be profitable. If coffee-shop 2 would loose money if they'd offer free wifi, it's not the wifi that's to blame. It's their management/accounting.

 Dentry wrote:
Does anyone else see a crease or sharp contour line running across the noseless faces of the female figures?



I can't decide if it's the paint job or (looking at the shading) the model itself.

Yeah lol, it kind of creates a 5 o'clock shadow effect. I think its the paint job as the models themselves dont appear to have a hard line there. If we could see them at another angle unpainted it would probably help.

 Zweischneid wrote:

What do freighting costs have to do with shipping individual boxes? How is "freighting things in" different to a box shipping to Australia than it is to a box shipping next door to CMON's warehouse in Atlanta(?)

And, as I said, CMON can do what they please, but it should be fair to compare them to people who evidently seem to be able to handle things more efficiently, effectively and cheaper. If CMON-backers are happy to pay more to suffer CMONs ineptitude, more power to them. Land of the Free.

Just noting that the competition seems to be doing better.

Coffee-shop 1 offers free wifi, and still making profit. The other coffee-shop 2 across the road asks you to pay 5 bucks. If you enjoy the other coffee-shop 2, do what you like. Land of the Free. It's simply worth pointing out that it is not impossible to operate like coffee-shop 1 and still be profitable. If coffee-shop 2 would loose money if they'd offer free wifi, it's not the wifi that's to blame. It's their management/accounting.

You're not comparing apples to apples here, when in regards to e-tailers.

SPM, as the Retailer, Distributor, and Manufacturer, is potentially paying for shipping three times. Once to get the Product, via boat usually, to their warehouses, once to ship out quantities to other distributors like Alliance, and once to ship to consumers who purchase from them directly.

An e-tailer like Wayland Games is usually only paying for shipping directly to the customer. Their distributor (again, typically) covers their shipping if they order over a certain amount. They don't have to pay to have anything freighted over.

Simply, they're not, as I said before, the same.

And it certainly has nothing to do with ineptitude; hell, I'd argue it speaks more to their KS experience that they're doing like this so they DON'T have to eat such a loss.

Just my two cents

 Zweischneid wrote:
I don't really get it.

Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.

Minor point - they can and do adjust as needed. When prices rise, they can raise the amount required for free shipping or suspend entirely. Wayland's free shipping promo code pops up for a month a time, during which they know what the price will be (and excludes bulky items, as they see fit to define it). This is likely being shipped in 2015, because when was the last time a kickstarter didn't have a delay?

 cincydooley wrote:

 Gomezaddams wrote:
I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.

Heh. Someone should tell you about Relic Knights and Robotech.

I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.

 Zweischneid wrote:
I don't really get it.

Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.

(a) With a far more diverse "warehouse-pick" from their complete inventory, rather than the "mono-product" packaging-line of a boxed-game KS like this.
(b) With far slimmer profit-margins as retailers, compared to sales made directly from the producer
(c) Over a far longer time-period than just "one shipment" (or two or three), but on a daily, recurring basis.
(d) Without money in the bank accruing interests months in advance, but with needing to ship as soon as the order is in.

Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.

Let's say I buy the new Imperial Knight model from GW. It's over 40 GBP. Wayland ships it free.

This boxed game will weigh 3-5 times as much, and will be in a much larger package because of the boxed game and all the add-ons that won't fit into the original boxed game. So, the two things that drive the price up in any shipping is container size and weight. So, while Wayland, just like The WarStore in the US, takes a small hit with shipping, they know that they won't be losing money on it, as CMON would be to offer everyone free International shipping. They are already cutting down on shipping costs by having a distribution center in Europe, and shipping right from China to Australia.

I can buy a US spec'd BMW or Volvo in Europe for about $10,000 less than stateside. Volvo throws in free shipping to the US. BMW says "you can afford the BMW, you can afford to ship it home!" Since I saved $10,000, I can afford to pay $1000 to ship it home.

Same metaphor applies here. If you think you're getting a great deal, buy in. If not, stop whining...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.

Hmm, Robotech. They just digitally printed one of the core models from the base game, and are having it sent to Palladium. This was one of the original pieces in the game, so presumably one of the 98% done pieces before the KS began. Palladium hasn't even seen it yet to tell them if changes need to be made, and it will have to jump through the hoops at Harmony Gold to get blessed off on before it can have its molds cut. And we're supposed to have this in our hot little hands in June. So. SPM/ND doesn't get any kudo's from me. And I find it extremely humorous that you're happier with the state of the RK updates, as it was most likely SPM that hampered them when CMON was pushing them out. Can't really push updates about models when the studio doing the models won't/can't share anything. And no, I'm not saying CMON is the greatest. Sedition Wars, minus the terrain stuff, I'll sell to anyone that wants it. Awful. Unplayable. Collecting dust. Rivet Wars, Zombicide are both great, and AQ looks good and fun to sit and play with my family. But other people made all these games, not CMON. So good bonds and relations with those groups/individuals/studios is what made those KS so successful and well received. The two current KS's that should have already delivered with SPM/ND involved, are far, far behind. CMON has washed their hands of RK, so its completely on SPM now. Palladium is stuck with ND, who is atrociously behind on their "98% complete" sculpts.

So when people throw out 98% complete now, it makes me cringe when SPM/ND is involved. Because they said the same thing with their Megaman game. So that leads me to believe that either making the TFK figure or Megaman stuff or trying to catch up on RK has impacted their business, and just presents a poorly run organization and the possibility of either shoddy models, or shoddy support. Possibly both.

 Zweischneid wrote:
I don't really get it.

Most e-tailers offer free international shipping for orders over a certain level, Wayland Games for over 40 GBP for example.

Of course CMON can do what they want, but if they make "loss" on shipping on a Kickstarter pledging months in advance for a (more or less) single product with a minimum-pledge of 100 USD, while every etailer and their dog can ship for free, internationally, for thousands of products, without months of advance payments, on a near-permanent basis, without making a loss, than there is something odd going on.

To be fair, that's "many" rather than most, and is pretty much limited to UK etailers in my experience - so "many UK etailers" - not "most etailers". Much of the "free" shipping comes from the 20% VAT, while the rest is largely the inbuilt discount (on product via shipping) that they offer to local orders. Of course, RM is a lot cheaper than USPS these days, and US etailers seem to not charge sales tax on orders outside of their home state anyway (due to state tax laws), and also don't do gak for international customers for international shipping. (ie Miniaturemarket offers free UPS for US orders over $100 while international orders don't even get a slight discount on shipping. The only US etailer who seems to do anything like this is Discount Games Store, who do a slight discount on international shipping which they told me is to offset the free US shipping they offer - and they're a purely online place with no B&M base. So, basically, a mix of can't and won't for US etailers and free shipping, and to be fair, mostly can't. If you know of any reliable US gaming retailers who ship internationally for free, I'd be very grateful to know who they are.

Sure, they have our money, interest free for a long time, but they're using that to pay for the production, and so that aspect is either the basis of Kickstarter, or swings and roundabouts, depending on your POV, but isn't an outrage, either.

It definitely isn't an outrage, but the comparisons are fair, imo. Having to pay for shipping later is something that would put me off pledging- with how delayed kickstarters tend to be, and how many I've backed, I don't want to have to keep track of keeping funds set aside to cover the shipping for each one 6 months or a year from now.

I have a feeling folks aren't really doing the math and will spend similarly to how they would if the pledge DID include shipping... which I'm sure isn't lost on CMON.

In the end, as folks have said, people are free to choose to do however they like, but pointing out that they're probably going to cash in on this is also pretty fair imo.

Free shipping thresholds are common, and a big incentive... not having shipping "included" is a disincentive. Is it a big enough disincentive to keep people from pledging? Clearly, it is not for many people... but that doesn't mean that it's a non-issue for everybody, and it's a valid thing to discuss on a campaign like this.

Van Helsing is very tempting.

I do agree with you. The other thing is that even with delays, we have no control over when KS producers will actually bother to ship out international packages, and as we've seen with a few campaigns, we often go out last. Cypher studios had a little complain about the USPS prices in their comments about USPS prices going up for international orders - but they'd been shipping for a few weeks by then, and had decided to send out internationals last (so after the USPS rise). Not my fault you sent us out last!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Gomezaddams wrote:
I was looking for a nice SDE type game and this does look nice but... I backed Sedition Wars and that turned into one ungodly mess with lots of cut corners, so I think I'll hang on and see what Soda Pop come up with for there game.

Heh. Someone should tell you about Relic Knights and Robotech.

I can tell you about Relic Knights. After CMoN let Sodapop take over the kickstarter page we actually get updates. Sadly a few have been about delays, but I'm more comfortable with Sodapop now that CMoN seems to have washed their hands of it. I have no information on Robotech.

So you know very little. Got it

That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).

 RiTides wrote:
That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).

Oh I know. But there's a lot of info out there about the RK project that he seems to not have read as well.

Regardless, I retract my snark. Soweee Mr Hero.

 cincydooley wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
That's not really fair, cincy- he's talking about Relic Knights, not Robotech, and said as much (although that's kind of like comparing one smelly sock to another ).

Oh I know. But there's a lot of info out there about the RK project that he seems to not have read as well.

Regardless, I retract my snark. Soweee Mr Hero.

Apology accepted.
As anyone else involved in the Relic Knights kickstarter, I try to keep up to date. I've followed the dakka thread on it fairly closely, and occasionally pop into the kickstarter page. I'm well aware my opinion is different than others. I'm not happy with the delays, but I remain optimistic about the project as a whole. Although I am worried about longterm support, but it won't be the first time I'm left with a bunch of pretty miniatures and no game and no players.

On topic, I'm very leery of this endeavor on CMoN's part. From what my buddies tell me, they're still waiting on their second-wave from Rivet Wars with no idea when it'll be in. That's on top of a four-month delay, and the several announced delays on predicted ship dates. CMoN just has notorious shoddy kickstarter management, regardless of the project involved.

I thought Rivet Wars is continuing along smoothly?

They just showed off the 3d prints for the plastic terrain, didn't they?

Not to dismiss CMON's questionable communication issues.

On topic though, those paint jobs are too nice. With anime- inspired art like they've got, I'd prefer the figures to be way more bright and garish, not with actual highlights and shading. I'll probably do mine up way more toylike if I'm inspired enough to paint everything... I'm getting tempted to finally paint my SDE set in anticipation of this (and the SDE kickstarter).

I can't tell if the monster hunter is supposed to have facial hair or not. The art looks like stubble, the model somewhere in between, while the painted version seems to have a full on 'stache and goatee.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I thought Rivet Wars is continuing along smoothly?

They just showed off the 3d prints for the plastic terrain, didn't they?

Not to dismiss CMON's questionable communication issues.

On topic though, those paint jobs are too nice. With anime- inspired art like they've got, I'd prefer the figures to be way more bright and garish, not with actual highlights and shading. I'll probably do mine up way more toylike if I'm inspired enough to paint everything... I'm getting tempted to finally paint my SDE set in anticipation of this (and the SDE kickstarter).

I can't tell if the monster hunter is supposed to have facial hair or not. The art looks like stubble, the model somewhere in between, while the painted version seems to have a full on 'stache and goatee.

I guess I should have made the note that I only have what they told me to go on. To the extent of my knowledge, they have not received an update on when the next wave will ship.

Regarding the minis, is it just me, or are some of the details painted on?

The nose and lips seem a little too soft to me, at least with this figure. Also, the long arms and stubby feet really seem to clash with the "chibi" look.

Yeah. You're a little off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in, and it sounds like all the production is going well save for some issues regarding the flight stand for the fliers.


Edited because Schampdi is right

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah. You're way off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in

He's not that off base. The first shipment was indeed several months behind schedule (The KS page said Sept 2013, They didn't send them out until January). And Quarter 1 ends in about a month, I'm certainly not expecting to have my second wave goodies before April. (Especially with the last update mentioning problems with the flight stands that need to be reworked).

Still, overall Rivet Wars has been one of the least delayed KSs I've backed. And they've had pretty good communication IMO.

Schmapdi wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah. You're way off base on rivet wars. They're expected delivery was q1 2014, which were still in

He's not that off base. The first shipment was indeed several months behind schedule (The KS page said Sept 2013, They didn't send them out until January). And Quarter 1 ends in about a month, I'm certainly not expecting to have my second wave goodies before April. (Especially with the last update mentioning problems with the flight stands that need to be reworked).

Still, overall Rivet Wars has been one of the least delayed KSs I've backed. And they've had pretty good communication IMO.

No, my wife received mine in the US in December, so while it was shipped late, they told us pretty early that it was going to be late. AND Ted designed and had manufactured extra troops for each side to be shipped in Wave 2 to apologize to the RW community. I think they'll be late on Wave 2, but not what is becoming the norm in KS Land: 4-6+ months late. I'm very happy with RW, and for what we got in that KS, it's gotta be more than 300% of what it would have cost at retail for what I paid. Plus, CMON is pretty supportive of the game on their forums.

As far as Ninja Pop (credit due to another Dakka member) goes, not only are you getting everything late, but the only thing they're offering in way of apology are poor excuses and poorer attitude. If Palladium hadn't split the delivery into two Waves so they could sell some models at Gencon to put $$ in their pockets, RRT would be at least a year late...and they're passing on all the scorn to the community as we wonder where RRT is.

Needless to say I've been really happy with Rivet Wars. It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality. I think, after the initial delay due to the problems with the bases, they were right on their second estimated target. I got mine in December.

With that being said, I believe Rivet Wars was the first project to specifically limit it's scope and "cap out," as it were, on the stretch goals for CMON. That pattern was followed by Wrath of Kings and I think the sports game they're doing (I don't know, I can't really stand sports miniatures games, so I didn't back it). That's a good choice. It's also one that Ninja Pop seems to be going with for Forgotten King, which to me, is a really good thing. It doesn't reinstill all the lost confidence, but it does help.

Truth be told, based on the photos we're seeing of the minis for Arcadia quest, it looks like the moulding and tooling for, at the very least, the base game may already be done, as the models we're seeing in photos LOOK to be plastic casts, based on the shallower depth of detail (this isn't a knock, just reality compared to resin) and the mould lines on the bases that look real similar to the mould lines on similar "board game miniatures" products.

Either way, looks neat!

Game Play - 2. Monsters

Hello, hello fellow Arcadians!



We are here today to talk about Monsters. The first thing you need to know is that they are the bad guys. Ya, Really! In Arcadia Quest, there is no such thing as a Monster Turn or Game Master. The Monsters work on a simple Reaction basis. Reaction is triggered when a Monster is attacked, when a Hero leaves a Space that is Close to a Monster, or when a Hero ignores a Close Monster, attacking another target. Once activated, the Monster will follow very simple rules and will be controlled by the player to the right of the active player.



Each different type of monster has a few cards showing its stats at different levels (they level up as the campaign progresses). Some monsters may have a special ability that gives them a special game mechanic. The base stats are Life (the heart), Overkill (the skull), Defense (the arrow) and Reward (the coin) (we will deal with Movement and Attack in a future update). Life works exactly as if does for the Heroes, indicating how many Wounds are necessary to kill the Monster. But killing a Monster doesn't mean it won't strike back at you with its final breath. That's where the next stat comes in: Overkill shows how many wounds a single attack needs to inflict to kill the Monster immediately and prevent it from retaliating. Killing a Monster and not being attacked back? Sweet! Defense also works exactly as it does for the Heroes and indicates how many Defense dice the Monster rolls whenever it is attacked, in an attempt to cancel the hits received (only the more powerful monsters have Defense). And Reward, well, you deserve to gain some coins whenever you kill a bad guy, right? So when a Hero deals the final blow and kills the Monster, he (or she) will get the amount of Coins indicated on that Monster's card. Ka-ching!



Some powerful Monsters are called Villains and they can wreak havoc when they arrive! They work exactly the same way as the other monsters with the exception that all players who have inflicted wounds on that Monster will get the full Coin reward when that Monster is killed.



Finally, when a Monster is killed it is placed on the Spawn Tile. When the Spawn Tile is full, the active player must do a Monster Spawn. He will roll two attack dice for each Monster on the tile and compare the result to the symbols on the Spawn Tokens scattered around the board. There are two possible results: each Monster either spawns back on the board or is permanently removed from the game. This means you never know if the monster threat has been vanquished or if they're just biding their time.

So, get ready to sharpen your swords and join the action, because Arcadia is crawling with enemies!



Automatically Appended Next Post:



The guys at Back It! Did a live streaming interview yesterday with us where we talk all things Arcadia Quest! Stay tuned, more updates later today.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Project Update #13: The Wait Is Over! The Gameplay Video Is Here!
Posted by CoolMiniOrNot ♥ Like
We’re happy to announce the Arcadia Quest gameplay video is up and ready for your viewing pleasure! We’re stoked that the guys at Jogando Offline got to play Arcadia Quest! Jogando Offline is a very popular board gaming reviews, previews, and news YouTube channel in Brazil. When Spaghetti Western Games came to them, the team at Jogando Offline jumped at the chance to play Arcadia Quest! This video will give you details into how the game plays, the unique mechanics it offers, while also showcasing how quest completion, PvPvE, special abilities, and loot work in the game! Also, thanks to the team at Jogando, it’s a lot of fun to watch.




If you enjoyed this video check out more of Jogando Offline's videos here! Just bear in mind that they do most of their videos in their native language of Portuguese.

That gameplay is hot. While Co-Op is fun... I do think lots of board gamers expect PVP. It is always a hassle straddling the fence between RPGers/Board gamers/War gamers.

It actually reminds me a lot of a old 'freeware' game a guy wrote called Dungeoncrawl which is a decent D20ish 'party vs party' dungeon game. The 'Player to the left controls the monsters' works pretty well in those types of games.

This seems like it might be the polar opposite of a Co-Op dungeon crawl... Which is not necessarily a bad thing. I can see this being more accepted with board gamers where Myth/SDE being for more RPGers.

 cincydooley wrote:
It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality.

Wait- you're saying the Rivet Wars models are way ahead of Deadzone models in terms of quality, is that right?

 RiTides wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
It may be the KS that I've been most satisfied with out of any I've backed, though part of that is probably due to the fact that I received Rivet Wars and Deadzone at the same time, and it really isn't that close in terms of quality.

Wait- you're saying the Rivet Wars models are way ahead of Deadzone models in terms of quality, is that right?

Unequivocally. I sold Deadzone less than a week after I got it, I was so disappointed. And I basically hoard everything.

I really enjoyed the gameplay video, though to be fair, I only half watched as it was in the background. I really, really, really like the campaign stuff at the end. Seems really fun.

Well, that certainly solidifies that I won't be going for Dreadball Extreme... thanks for the heads up! It's so hard to know what the casting quality is going to be like for these campaigns (i.e. even CMON's efforts such as Sedition Wars, not just Mantic). Makes me want to just avoid PVC entirely...

I know that's what I'm doing from now on.

No more 'restic' Kickstarters for me, if I can avoid it.