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Hey fellas,

Depending on how big my games are I run 2 to 3 squads of 2 Oblits with MoN. In most of my games (against Tau, Eldar, SM, and Necron) I tend to play more defensively with my oblits, and keep them behind my main lines of my army and usually use lascannons or plasma cannons. After games (with most of my oblits still alive) I realize that I probably should have been more offensive with them and maybe tried to get them into assault cannon range or just pose a bit more of a target priority threat.

Against my main opponent (eldar), he likes to field an aegis defense line with dark reapers behind it, and I've wanted to deep strike a squad of 2 oblits behind it and flame them to death and hopefully divert some of his firepower. Or even deep strike by his warwalkers and use some melta. I never do this however, since it seems like a waste because of the low AP dakka he's got.

What tactics do you use for your oblits? Do you foots slog up the battlefield, bunker in on objectives, or deep strike to cause some backfield disruption. I know it depends on the armies you face, but I just want to hear what everyone's thoughts are.

Thanks

There are better ways to kill Dark Reapers. Heldrakes eat them for breakfast. Save the Oblits for AP2 and AV threats.

Obliterators are elites choices that were accidentally mislabeled as heavy support. If what you want is a heavy support-like unit to hang out in your backfield and alpha strike stuff, then there isn't much reason to take obliterators when you could have havocs, or preds, etc.

The only way to make the extra cost you have to bear for their weapons worth it is to make use of those special rules. The best way I've found for this is by deepstriking them into a weak spot and then wreaking havoc. You get to make use of their deepstrike rule, and you're more likely to make use of marks, and you're definitely going to do a lot more weapon switching at close range, while at long range, this is a penalty (because you don't just get to shoot lascannons all the time) than it is a bonus.

I run a single squad of 3 of them, almost always deepstriking. They're a good companion in a list with terminators in them.

I can't remember the last time I did not deepstrike Obliterators. For me, there's no sense keeping them on the board just to fire from the backfield. I always do better with them coming in at just the right moment.

I have tried keeping them in the backfield, deepstriking, and marching forward at the enemy. Of all three the deepstriking has proven the best option. While I miss out on first turn firepower when they deepstrike in I can place their firepower basically wherever I need it at the time. I normally field 2 units of 3 with mark of nurgle. Sometimes I used them as a way to get Typhus onto the board to provide ablative wounds before he can break off and beat stuff in the face. Walking forward can work especially if you have the first turn as they can closre each turn and use a new weapon as they close the range. The only problem I have with this is that often times their most effective weapons (at least in my meta) are their flamer combos and linked plasma guns which you most likely wont get to use without deepstriking in. So I recommend mark of nurgle, squads of 3, VoTLW, and deepstriking in.

Two Oblits Deepstrike in with Typhus and the 3 man unit walks in support of Plague Marines.

Oblits shouldn't be played defensively. The trick however is keeping them out of assaults, which is why they need to be supported.

Oblits do come with W2 2+/5++ and a powerfist. They're hardly worthless in close combat.

Heck, a unit of 3 with a cheap MoK throws down 12 powerfist attacks on the charge. That's almost as much damage as a squad of hammernators.

It's also another reason to deepstrike them - it makes them more likely to get assaulted, and get to actually use that armor save and powerfist.

Maybe it's because of bad rolling, but I never had good luck when I deepstriked them... they either arrived at turn 4, scattered too much (I remember once when I had a completely safe DS option as long I did not scatter at least 11". I did scatter exactly 11"), scattered just outside of multimelta range or just missed most of their shots (which is a good feat with BS 4 :p).

With 2 deployments out of 3 you can just deploy as close as possible to the enemy and you will be at most 36" from everything. Considering you can shoot and move, by turn 2 you'll have all of your weapons in range (bar the multimelta if the opponent is hiding from them). Considering that with DS you won't shoot turn 1 (so even 3 lascannons/plasma cannons on unworthy targets are better than nothing) and you always have the risk of bad rolls with DS, usually I prefer to start them on the table from turn 1.

However the added value of the Obliterators is their great flexibility. In some situations (deploy along short edges of the table, the opponent tries to exploit a lot of cover, there are good safe places where you can DS with minimum risk) then DS is probably the best option. In some others, such as playing against an opponent who is going to be aggressive and you are using the "Dawn of War" deployment, I feel that DS is just a good way to waste 1-3 turns of shooting.

In my experience, however, the only thing you do not have to do is just stay there and shoot lascannons. If that's what you need/want, just take a units of Havocs with 4 autocannon AND a Predator: more bodies, more damage, same cost, less mobility and flexibility.
If you take the Obliterators play them aggressively, either by closing distance starting from your lines or by deep striking them.
Either way even if I usually play a unit with 3 of them, I'm not their biggest fan. So try to play them more aggressively and if they still do not satisfy you, just try something different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
Oblits do come with W2 2+/5++ and a powerfist. They're hardly worthless in close combat.

Heck, a unit of 3 with a cheap MoK throws down 12 powerfist attacks on the charge. That's almost as much damage as a squad of hammernators.

It's also another reason to deepstrike them - it makes them more likely to get assaulted, and get to actually use that armor save and powerfist.

It depends on what is assaulting them. Do you want your Oblits to be tarpitted by a low cost high body count stubborn/fearless counterassault unit or do you want them firing and killing where it hurts most?

Infiltrated together with Huron is another option.

Diablix wrote:It depends on what is assaulting them. Do you want your Oblits to be tarpitted by a low cost high body count stubborn/fearless counterassault unit or do you want them firing and killing where it hurts most?

What is one unit that fits this description that's both cheaper than the obliterators, and durable enough to take turn after turn of pounding by powerfists?

 Ailaros wrote:

Diablix wrote:It depends on what is assaulting them. Do you want your Oblits to be tarpitted by a low cost high body count stubborn/fearless counterassault unit or do you want them firing and killing where it hurts most?

What is one unit that fits this description that's both cheaper than the obliterators, and durable enough to take turn after turn of pounding by powerfists?

Considering that if you are charged you have 6 attacks, hitting on 3s/4s (with the chance to roll a 1 to wound) you will deal 3-4 wounds at best. Not considering invulnerable saves or FnP you just need 10 wounds to prevent you from shooting from 2 turns (you survive the charge, resist on the Oblits turn, resist on your turn and then even if you died the Oblits did nothing for 2 turns). It's not really hard...

Kroots near an Ethereal?
Plague Zombies?
Cultists with any character or buffed by a Sorcerer?
Daemonettes? (enough of them will just kill your oblits, 3 rending attacks on the charge are pretty painful... 20 of them cost 180 points)
Pink Horrors? (5++ rerolling ones, you won't kill many of them)
Orks?
Tyranids?
Inquisition henchmen (Crusaders with Storm shield, 15 pts each if I recall correctly), which basically covers every Imperial Codex...

Small sized units are cheap and they can be worthy the sacrifice. Large units (think of daemonettes) will just ...obliterate them.
Units such as 20 Plague Zombies (90 points? don't remember exactly) will just tarpit them for the whole game

The whole reason I have trouble taking oblits in competitive lists anymore is that they just don't have enough dakka to kill any unit in one go.
I think deepstriking is the way to go but the problem is that is way unreliable.

Oblits seem like a no brainer for people with not much list building experience but they are a jack of all trades and a master of none.

No twinlinking on things like lascannons give them very poor damage output.

Then when centurions came out as blatant obliterators +1 it made me want to play oblits even less.

Lol, there's some total bull comments in this thread.

"Oblits seem like a no brainer for people with not much list building experience but they are a jack of all trades and a master of none".

Its a case of what's required in your list, what are you trying to achieve? What's there purpose?
Oblits are durable in many ways, MoN, Aegis, whatever your way of playing them, there's a few and it depends what works for you.

Nothing wrong with DS'ing a unit in. Hell, you could even outflank a unit attached to a MoS steed Lord if you wanted to.

Is it work running a squad of 2 with MoN and VotLW?

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Lol, there's some total bull comments in this thread.

"Oblits seem like a no brainer for people with not much list building experience but they are a jack of all trades and a master of none".

Its a case of what's required in your list, what are you trying to achieve? What's there purpose?
Oblits are durable in many ways, MoN, Aegis, whatever your way of playing them, there's a few and it depends what works for you.

Nothing wrong with DS'ing a unit in. Hell, you could even outflank a unit attached to a MoS steed Lord if you wanted to.

The problem is relying on them. I'm not sure what tactic you're even advocating here.

 Ailaros wrote:
Oblits do come with W2 2+/5++ and a powerfist. They're hardly worthless in close combat.

Heck, a unit of 3 with a cheap MoK throws down 12 powerfist attacks on the charge. That's almost as much damage as a squad of hammernators.

It's also another reason to deepstrike them - it makes them more likely to get assaulted, and get to actually use that armor save and powerfist.

Giving them any mark other than the mark of nurgle is asking for them to be instant killed.

Only by causing stuff that causes instant death. Plus, I'm still waiting for something that's better AND CHEAPER than oblits in their role.

And even if you can come up with some, you're talking about oblits deepstriking, which means you get a turn or two to hurt those units or, you know, just don't deepstrike right next to those rare hard counters.

Same thing with ID. Of COURSE you don't try to get your obliterators into CC with a wraithknight.

Just because you can find an example or two of things that are better doesn't invalidate the fact that obliterators are better than most things.

What do people think of deepstriking them with a termi-sorcerer and burning brand?

The Chaos players in our area have tried several things. The guy who does best with them just starts them on the table, because he's got the threat saturation that it's okay if they get shot to death on the first turn. If not, whee, an extra round of shooting their big weapons.

I'd rather have oblits than a bunch of Havocs. They're just more durable, and you end up spending the same points either way. If you don't bring extra bodies for a Havoc squad as ablative wounds for your HW guys, it's just too easy for people to whittle down points. Plus, they can only ever do one thing. Being a "jack of all trades" is fine by me, because it means I've got tactical flexibility. When it's really good at all the things it wants to do (survive, kill vehicles, kill other elites things dead) and is pretty durable in the process (t5 2+, 5++, 2 wounds so you can afford to take a hit without losing effectiveness), sounds worthwhile to me.

They're also pretty great if you roll Master of Deception or bring Ahriman/Huron to guarantee it. That kind of firepower and flexibility, with infiltrate? Silliness.

Could work. Probably the biggest problem is that the sorcerer's best powers only work at the start of the turn, which means you can't use them while deepstriking.

If you could get them to survive, though, some MoN oblits with invisibility could be pretty sick.

Id agree with other comments that they are generally best used starting on the board, either an aegis and/or MoN is useful to give them a durability boost.

Its also nice to have options so having say a Sorcerer in TA able to join them Ds'ing down with shriek/brand is an added bonus.

As I stated already you could even outflank them with MoS steed if it fitted purpose tactially to do so.

Its nice to have little tricks and options.

If I were to deepstrike a bunch I would take an aegis with a comms relay. Having Oblits not come on until Turn 4 would be horrible.

Yes and no. Oblits, like lots of CSM choices, are good bully units. Better at wiping out weakened things than assaulting strong positions.

At least they don't suffer quite as much by showing up later as other things do, I'd think.

DS with a Last Memory sorceror and leave a smoking hole in the enemy gunline.

Oblits are one of those units that can be put into any list and will provide something you needed. Even a single MoN Oblits is a great addition to any list.

They are also one of those units that can easily be under utilized as they require playing a turn or two ahead to maximize their damage. As an example if started on the board you need to place them so that after they use their lascannons on turn 1 you can either hit a MC with plasma, be in MM range, or HF range of something important.

They are a great TAC choice because whereas other options like havoks and preds will be good against their specific target the oblits will be good no matter what they face.

Now the problem with oblits is they are better used in an aggressive manner. If you try to gunline with them you will find they under perform as opposed to a pred or havoks as they cost more per weapon and they only have 2 long range options only one of which is really good (plasma cannons are not very good). Therefore if you lack aggressive elements in your list to present multiple threats and overload the opponent's ability to handle them then the oblits will die horribly having done relatively little. I have a turn 2 blitz list where I drop 4 groups of oblitz, typhus, and termi sorcerers on you turn 2. You are given a bunch of zombies behind an ADL to shoot at turn 1 and my reserves are helped along by the comms relay. The oblits always perform well in this list.

I have great success starting them.on the board and strategically walk up the board shooting high profile targets until I get within 24" ( where I personally think they shine) and depending how there shooting went I will charge on turn 4 or 5. If I deep strike them I may break them up into 2 groups of 2 and try to get rear armor or something to heavy flamer. And t5 2+/5++ can soak up a lot of small arms fire. They are one of the best units csm have because they can deal with whatever surprise is thrown at them.

A lot of armor you can lascannon and plasma cannon from a distance. If they get close or you deep strike you have multimeltas, tl plasma, and melta.

Hoardes, you have heavy flamer and tl flamers and plasma cannons. And if you have to they have a base of 2 power fist attacks.

They may be expensive, but they are worth every bit of it.

So is this what i have been missing out on by getting 12 ac havocs. I even had lascannon havocs and heavy bolter havocs. I have been relying on only melta guns n bombs to destroy av 14. Some times the termicide work n some times it doesnt.

Oblits are certainly threatening when deep striking. Against oblits in cover, all they did was waste my dakka. Against oblits deep striking, all they did was waste my dakka after actually killing or threatening something. However, for what you get, I don't think they are overcosted.

I respect how they are such an awesome swiss army knife of a unit; they make any CSM list scarier, but I seem to be outright immune to them. Anecdotes do not equal data, but I can't remember a single time oblits actually did anything meaningful to my army. I have, on more than one occasion assaulted oblits with guardians and won. I have had oblits unload every weapon they can muster against damn near every profile eldar can field with minimal effect. This is from nurgle oblits behind an ADL, deep striking nurgle/tzeenech oblits in assault, khorne oblits out of a raider, and several other marked/unmarked, ranged/assault encounters.

That all said, they are great units since they can do so many different things. With such a utility unit, the goal is to make use of every aspect. Access to multiple guns, power fists, and terminator armor is still unique. Units like oblits are flexible to function in any list, but should not have a set role until deployment happens. Utility of a utility unit is the key, so I would say their tactic is flexibility and adaptability. Never shoehorn such a unit into a specific role in your list, my 2 cents.

Well, being an expensive versatile unit, it IS easy to play them wrong. If you're not really taking advantage of their special abilities, then yeah, they're not likely going to contribute that much. At least, not for their cost.

Anyone who has a plan for them in their army list is probably already using them wrong. Their flexibility means that you don't know what they're going to do until right before the game begins.

The one exception to this is that they'll probably be deepstriking. I can't think of too many cases I'm likely to come across where the best use of their abilities is to treat them like low-firepower expensive havocs.

 McGibs wrote:
What do people think of deepstriking them with a termi-sorcerer and burning brand?

I'd say no.
Brand needs mobility (jump pack, bike, mount...), and that means no terminator armour. Furthermore, you sorcerer, moreso if you buy additionnal mastery levels, is bound to have a witchfire.

So go for both : DS a termi sorcerer with a witchfire, and flank (as tactical flanking, not special rule one) with a MoN biker lord with brand. Target saturation.