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Oh. So you mean there were two jokes and I missed both of them?
Damn!

What.... what happened while I was gone?

Guys, I hope that you guys can give me some advice about this.

I'm 18 and there's this girl at school who I really took a fancy to and she's both good looking and smart. I really liked her because we have quite a few things in common such as we both are very good at learning languages.

Now, I'm quite good at socialising with girls and can start a conversation quite easily. Problem is I've heard the other ones from boarding say that she is quite protective and shy and hangs around with her clique of friends, and I'm just not too sure how to approach her and her friends and maybe get us to know each other better, because I'd like to get into a serious relationship. I'm just afraid that she'll freak out and think that I'm a creep.


This might be dumb, but I thought that it would be worth mentioning that I'm Virgo, as it portrays my character quite well, although i'm not too critical or reserved.

So could you guys give me some advice?

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
Problem is I've heard the other ones from boarding say that she is quite protective and shy and hangs around with her clique of friends, and I'm just not too sure how to approach her and her friends and maybe get us to know each other better, because I'd like to get into a serious relationship. I'm just afraid that she'll freak out and think that I'm a creep.

Well, she might have a point there. You've already decided that you want a serious relationship with this girl, but you haven't even figured out how to approach her. You're way ahead of where you should be, and getting into the awkward problem of falling in love with a fantasy that has little to do with the real person. And nobody wants to be on the wrong end of that kind of thing.

This might be dumb, but I thought that it would be worth mentioning that I'm Virgo, as it portrays my character quite well, although i'm not too critical or reserved.

Skip the astrology nonsense. It just says "I'm a superficial person who thinks they can be described by a set of personality traits designed to let anyone say 'yeah, that's who I am'".

Thanks for the response Peregrine.

I should have said I would like to build up to a serious relationship with the girl. And by approaching her, I have and have talked to her, but I'm not sure where to go from the given situation, so that we feel more comfortable with each other. Plus, I meant that she is shy in general, not only when I talk to her. It's just casual talk, nothing more

Frankly I don't believe in astrology either, but I couldn't be bothered to post my personality layout, as I thought the usual traits associated with Virgo describe me nicely. So I only used that as a comparison, nothing more.

So any advice?

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
Thanks for the response Peregrine.

I should have said I would like to build up to a serious relationship with the girl. And by approaching her, I have and have talked to her, but I'm not sure where to go from the given situation, so that we feel more comfortable with each other. Plus, I meant that she is shy in general, not only when I talk to her. It's just casual talk, nothing more

Frankly I don't believe in astrology either, but I couldn't be bothered to post my personality layout, as I thought the usual traits associated with Virgo describe me nicely. So I only used that as a comparison, nothing more.

So any advice?

Only nice guys 'build up to a serious relationship'.

'Oh hi there, you know how we've been friends for like six months now? And we enjoy each others company? Well, I totally want dat ass. That was my real motive all along'.

You meet a girl. You charm her. That leads to probably spending a small amount of time with her, in which you figure out if you actually like her or not beyond physical attraction. Then you pop the question and ask them on a date. At any stage, if the girl isn't interested, you won't make it to the next stage. Simple as.

Becoming good friends with a girl as a prelude to a relationship fails in 90% of cases.

 Ketara wrote:
Becoming good friends with a girl as a prelude to a relationship fails in 90% of cases.

Highlighted the important part.

Being friends with someone and then later realizing that you might want a relationship with them = fine. Sure, the odds aren't that great, but the odds of any two people being compatible long-term are pretty bad. If you fail you didn't fail because you became friends first, you failed because you never had a chance and the other person discovered they weren't interested in you like that after being friends instead of after a few awkward dates.

Being friends with someone as a calculated plan to get a relationship = NO. It doesn't work, and you're an insincere if the only reason you're friends with someone is to manipulate them into having sex with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
I should have said I would like to build up to a serious relationship with the girl.

And this is exactly what I warned you about: you're falling in love with a fantasy girl, not a real person. You hardly know this person, so you have no good reason to expect that a serious relationship would be a good idea. Stop thinking about an end goal that won't happen for months/years and focus on what's happening now. You have a few signs that you might be interested in them, which means casual dating to get to know them and see if you both want to go beyond that. Don't even think about what might come after that until you've had success with the early steps. Ignore this advice and you're going to do at least one of two things:

1) Set yourself up for serious disappointment when you fail. If you build a person up into an idealized fantasy you have a lot more to lose than if you see them as just one of countless people that you might be interested in dating. It turns things like asking for a first date into Serious Life Events with the highest stakes instead of a fun thing that doesn't really matter all that much.

2) Make an awkward mess of the situation. You're young and inexperienced, which means you're probably not going to be very subtle and you're going to appear just short of showing up to a first date with an engagement ring in your pocket. The person you're interested in is probably going to pick up on the fact that you're already thinking "serious relationship" and is likely to feel uncomfortable with that kind of fast escalation.

Being friends with someone and then later realizing that you might want a relationship with them = fine. Sure, the odds aren't that great, but the odds of any two people being compatible long-term are pretty bad. If you fail you didn't fail because you became friends first, you failed because you never had a chance and the other person discovered they weren't interested in you like that after being friends instead of after a few awkward dates.

I would say I am at this stage

Actually, I've known this girl for 6+ years and I know her by personality quite well, and I don't fantasize, nor do I like her just physically, it's just i'm not sure how to take it to the next stage without messing things up.

As for subtlety, I'm not your outward advance type, trust me....I know how to play the game as much as anyone else.

And by serious relationship, I mean that, I just don't want to go out with her (if I do) for just a year, then leave.

I dont know if this means anything, but I shaved my head today, so far alot of girls said I look better and some said more menacing(But they said in a good way, like a protector)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Albatross wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Heres some advice: people like positive people. They like hanging around positive people because positive feelings and thoughts make other people feel positive, if you're not being positive you're being negative, and nobody wants to hang with a negative nancy, so stop being negative.

Yep, we've been saying this. It's just a fact.

What about hiding the fact you are actually very depressed inside, while pretending to be perfectly fine? Is that okay?

I'm not sure whether or not you're being sarcastic, but actually it doesn't make much of a difference because my response is the same:

Yes, not only is it OK to hide that you are very depressed inside and pretend to be absolutely fine, I would absolutely encourage you to do so, in the context of dating. Hell, even in your everyday life, if you have any desire to meet new friends or potentially useful contacts. In essence, and to be absolutely frank about it, be depressed on your own time, not mine.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, and I don't mean me specifically, or people with whom you already have a close personal relationship, I'm talking about new people you meet. Negativity is one of the most unattractive personal traits one can possess. You can be the best looking, richest and most successful person ever, but if you're a total bummer to be around, people won't hang with you. That, I feel is the biggest obstacle facing a lot of people that have commented in this thread, who are not experiencing romantic success. Make yourself fun to be around and everything else will fall into place eventually.

 Albatross wrote:
I'm not sure whether or not you're being sarcastic, but actually it doesn't make much of a difference because my response is the same:

I think you mistook “Will it be enough to hide it, or do I need to solve it before having any chance” for “Should I not rather complain the whole time”.

 Albatross wrote:
Sorry if that sounds harsh, and I don't mean me specifically, or people with whom you already have a close personal relationship, I'm talking about new people you meet.

I tend to do that with everyone, including those I already have a close personal relationship with. I have a hard time opening about it when I feel bad.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:

Being friends with someone and then later realizing that you might want a relationship with them = fine. Sure, the odds aren't that great, but the odds of any two people being compatible long-term are pretty bad. If you fail you didn't fail because you became friends first, you failed because you never had a chance and the other person discovered they weren't interested in you like that after being friends instead of after a few awkward dates.

I would say I am at this stage

Actually, I've known this girl for 6+ years and I know her by personality quite well, and I don't fantasize, nor do I like her just physically, it's just i'm not sure how to take it to the next stage without messing things up.

As for subtlety, I'm not your outward advance type, trust me....I know how to play the game as much as anyone else.

And by serious relationship, I mean that, I just don't want to go out with her (if I do) for just a year, then leave.

How can you know that at this stage? From the little you've said, there's been no indication of anything romantic between the two of you. You have a crush on her. That's cool. Girls find that cute if you handle it correctly, but make no mistake, those are the terms you should be speaking in with regard to this girl. No exceptions. Anything else would likely freak her out a bit at this stage. Take it from an old head, gak like that could freak a girl out after a few months of sleeping together, never mind a few innocuous conversations. If you really wanna go for broke, roll the dice and tell her! Find a way to spend time with her outside of school - if you're friends that should be pretty easy. There are suggestions on how to do that right here in this very thread. Go back and read it all.

Once you've found a way to spend a little time together, just you and her, say something like 'Listen, I wanted to come clean about something - I asked you here because I have a little bit of a crush on you. Is that cool? What are your thoughts on that?' Keep it light and fun, like 'ha, god, this is so embarrassing, can't believe I admitted that etc.' That's your gambit here, I feel. It's the only strategy I can see working with a girl you have known for quite a while without making any meaningful overtures towards. It might jolt her into re-examining her feelings towards you, which is something you need to happen, as she has already decided whether or not she is sexually attracted to you and, well, here we are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
I'm not sure whether or not you're being sarcastic, but actually it doesn't make much of a difference because my response is the same:

I think you mistook “Will it be enough to hide it, or do I need to solve it before having any chance” for “Should I not rather complain the whole time”.

 Albatross wrote:
Sorry if that sounds harsh, and I don't mean me specifically, or people with whom you already have a close personal relationship, I'm talking about new people you meet.

I tend to do that with everyone, including those I already have a close personal relationship with. I have a hard time opening about it when I feel bad.

See, the flipside of my post is that you absolutely MUST talk to someone about it! Not doing so is not an option here, I feel. You need a carefully managed outlet for it so that it bleeds into other areas of your life as little as possible. Negativity is a cycle - you approach situations negatively, which yields (more often than not) negative results, which in turn makes you feel negative!

You're a PhD, correct? I'm guessing you're pretty confident in that area in your life, in your subject. Is it mere coincidence that it also happens to be the most successful area of your life too? Of course not. You got to where you are by believing in your abilities and executing with confidence because of that.

A lot of you guys who are struggling with this stuff should subscribe to this guy on youtube:



He has lots of really insightful advice regarding confidence and being (as he puts it) the strongest version of yourself. He's a professional strongman, so he also has great advice on lifting too. He's quite brash and 'American' (he also swears a bit so NSFW), but honestly, give him a shot, watch a few of his videos. I think he's great. I've put some of his advice into practice and it has really worked for me. You might even recognise some of what says in some of the advice I've given here.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:


Actually, I've known this girl for 6+ years

As a friend? Or as a rough acquaintance?

As a friend, yes. We do a quite a few extra-curricular activities together but the times that I see her are infrequent - say I might talk to her for a week or so quite a lot, then for a month she would hang out with her friends, and we would rarely talk. I don't really chat to her on Facebook or Twitter , as I don't have them (but she does - it's snip snip Reds8n if you want to check her account), so I mostly socialise in and outside school. Honestly, I'm not really sure where I'm at with her - mostly we'd be friends and at some times she would hang out with me more, but infrequently.

Also I don't know how she sees me, because I live in Northern Ireland but was born elsewhere. I've blended in perfectly in society and by accent, but my interests are somewhat different than the locals' , like their humour, or taste of movies, and the fact that they're sarcastic all the time, and I'm not (to my misfortune). Maybe she doesn't know what to make of me?

Okay, here's the qualifier to see if you're a friend or an acquaintance. Do you hang out together outside of set activities (so class or clubs) with nobody else about? Just the two of you? If so, then the suggestion made above by Albatross is the only way forward. She'll know you well enough that you can't come over all suave and charming, and you need to avoid 'nice guy' syndrome.

If not, then you're more of an acquaintance than a friend, and have more room to maneouvre.

Well, then if you put it that way, I'm more of an acquaintance then. But then teenagers in this country usually hang in a group and go out, even between boys and girls, so I'm not sure if you go on your own with a girl, and only that makes you a friend, but in any case, I see what you mean.

So what should I do in this case?

Firstly, you forget any ideas you might have about there being a specific 'ruleset' which will make her go out with you. Every woman is different.

You meet a girl. You charm her. That leads to probably spending a small amount of time with her, in which you figure out if you actually like her or not beyond physical attraction. Then you pop the question and ask them on a date. At any stage, if the girl isn't interested, you won't make it to the next stage. Simple as.

This is it in a nutshell. Since you already know you like her, that puts you at the 'asking out' stage. If she likes you right now, she already likes you. If she doesn't, she doesn't.

Fortunately, being still more or less at the 'acquaintance' stage, you also have the option of making yourself a more attractive prospect over the next six months or so, and then making a move. You've known of her for six years, unless one of you is moving away, there's no rush.

Sure. Thanks for the advice mate.

Any tips, to-as you put it so eloquently "make myself a more attractive prospect"? In general terms.

I'd strongly recommend removing the persons name from this thread.

That's a big no-no in general.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
Sure. Thanks for the advice mate.

Any tips, to-as you put it so eloquently "make myself a more attractive prospect"? In general terms.

There are many things you can do, lots of which have been mentioned earlier in the thread. To provide an extremely brief overview:-

-Be hygienic. Women hate smelly men. Make sure you wash daily.
-Dress in a style that emphasizes your build best.
-Accessorise. Not over the top, but a single different piece of jewellery that you change around occasionally is always good (so a plain chrome ring one week, a yin/yang pendant on a silver chain the next, etc). Keep it small, keep it tasteful. Piercings can also work well here.
-Get reasonably in shape if you're not already. You don't need to be ripped, but if you're fat, your chances of getting girls with good physiques start dropping with every extra pound you gain past a certain point.
-Develop some actual skills that can impress and interest. Learn to play the piano/guitar, do cheesy magic tricks, make cool looking costume props, whatever takes your fancy.

In other words, before worrying about how to make people fancy you, concern yourself with making yourself somebody worth fancying. Flesh your character and person out. Once you've done that, the women come to you instead of the other way around.

Not too worried about those listed above-
-Hygiene wise, I keep myself tidy and neat
-I mostly dress in jeans.shirt/jumper but I'm extremely fond of black wool trench coats with a nice scarf.
-I don't really wear accessories, bands or anything like that (not my style) just watch and ankh and family cartouche necklace.
-Piercings are out of the question.
-By build-I'm average to lanky,and reasonably fit as I do swimming and cycling.

-It's just the skills to impress that I'm worried - I have zero musical skills, or tricks and stuff like that. All that I can do is sketch (check my deviantart: menaslg.deviantart.com) I can tell clever jokes (not dirty ones).I've started medieval re-enactment,at a local club and hope that one day, I'll participate in the Battle of Nations. And I can sing more than 20 sea chanties! But that's all that I can do, and none of these activities would seem cool in a girl's eyes I think. I just don't know how to look impressionable, as I can't pick up new things due to my schedule being busy enough with exam revision and other activities.

That's what's bothering me.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
But that's all that I can do, and none of these activities would seem cool in a girl's eyes I think.

Sounds like you need to revise your gender stereotypes then.

Or you could be like me, shave your head, grow a handlebar mustace and ride a motorcycle.

I meant, as in from knowing how the girls are round here, they would be more into boy bands, gossip, dressing and going out with friends - And that is true. She's a big fan of Justin Bieber, just to point that out.

I'm more into culture (classical, jazz, neoclassical and sea chanties, painting and sketching, travelling and sightseeing) and other uncommon hobbies (as I mentioned, which teenagers do medieval reenactment?), and I'm not sure if this appeals to the girls round here. Plus they would be more into someone suave, chatty with a funky hairstyle who calls them "babe", and especially here, someone who's devoutly Protestant and goes to church a lot, because thy're all super religious. I'm greek orthodox, and my religion is somewhat not the same as theirs, nor do I wholly agree to their morals and doctrines. Frankly, I don't want to be that type I would tend to me more reserved and serious, although I can crack jokes if I have to.

That's what I mean, how can I seem more appealing with what I have and can do?

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
check my deviantart: menaslg.deviantart.com

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:
none of these activities would seem cool in a girl's eyes I think.

You what

That is utterly awesome and I have bought art of lesser quality than that.

1. I have a feeling they would say cool, then just revert back to their usual state

2.Check my last post, I just changed it

3. Don't give me too much credit - the sketching is mine, my brother does the rest - the financing with the shop and some of the colours.

If it makes you feel any better, I think you'd be able to get a date with Ashiraya if she wasn't 1000 miles away

Lol maybe.

 Phosis T'Kar Jr wrote:


-It's just the skills to impress that I'm worried - I have zero musical skills, or tricks and stuff like that. All that I can do is sketch (check my deviantart: menaslg.deviantart.com) I can tell clever jokes (not dirty ones).I've started medieval re-enactment,at a local club and hope that one day, I'll participate in the Battle of Nations. And I can sing more than 20 sea chanties! But that's all that I can do, and none of these activities would seem cool in a girl's eyes I think. I just don't know how to look impressionable, as I can't pick up new things due to my schedule being busy enough with exam revision and other activities.

That's what's bothering me.

Then to be frank, old bean, if you're confident that you're reasonably physically attractive, you just need to pop the question.

Seriously. If she likes you, she likes you, if she doesn't, she doesn't. I kick myself these days about the fact that when I was at college (pre-university over here), I spent all my time chasing a single girl who hadn't the faintest bit of interest in me to the point of neglecting the ones who did. If, on a personality level, she doesn't fancy you, there's not much you can do about it. There are minor cheat tricks, from wearing red, to casually and deliberately breaking the 'touch' barrier, to specific body languages that you can use to enhance your flirting, but they only work on people who are already inclined to fancy you for the most part.

Well skype exists