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My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

Two words: Furioso Dreadnought...with Blood Talons. You have ZERO ability to deal with AV13, and basically a Furioso will go on a complete slaughter spree and I could easily see it mulching 10-15 boys PER TURN with good rolls.
Land Raiders are a popular Space Marine vehicle in a lot of the tourney lists I see. You can't deal with one of those, let alone the sometimes 2-4 that some armies can field.
It looks like a fun list and it may be very powerful but armor will tear this to pieces.
Hell Drakes will eat this list ALIVE.

 mik339 wrote:


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Vendablefall wrote:
all someone needs to do is bring 3 dreadnoughts, and bam, half your army tied up in assault indefinitely.. dropping some boys to include PK nobs would help this

That's the beauty, no klaws are necassary. I actually played 3 chaos dreads no problem. A group of boys is only what, 80 more points than a dread? It's whatever. The lock doesn't do much. The dread chews like, 4 boys a turn, tops, and they can't be shot at. Except on the last turn, the boys have an option to "Our weapons are Useless!" Their way out of the engagement to dive an objective.
They may die, but boys die every day.

So, the walker sweeps them? >.>

I was going to say "fearless, can't do that," but then I think Mob Rule makes the fearless optional.

 MagickalMemories wrote:
My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

I agree that 180 Orks of doom isn't the end all / be all of tournament lists, but I also think that a lot of people are guilty of underestimating the list. Its not like these are 180 slugga + choppa Boyz. These are all shoota boyz, and even with the superior mobility of Dark Eldar some of those boys are going to be getting within 18 inches of those vehicles. Raiders and Venoms can be glanced to death by shootas, and all the Boyz are getting a 5+ cover save against the poison weapons. Sure its not ideal, for da boyz, but it is far from an unwinnable fight like many posters are making it out to be. You see this in the assertions of Heldrakes and Walkers as well, in a meta where people typically are fielding less than 60 infantry models total, and is dominated by more elite units, the killing power of the Heldrake is more noticeable. A Drake is as capable of roasting 6 point Ork Boyz exactly as quickly as it is capable of roasting ~15 point (give or take) Space Marines. Sure its a mobile high strength flamer which can get great positioning, but I doubt Drakes will be able to sift all of the Boyz from the Objectives in time, and furthermore will have trouble with pathing due to the clutter on the board. They cannot go anywhere if their base cannot be placed due to Boyz and impassible terrain blocking where they want to go, which a savvy Orc Player can use to his advantage and keep the Heldrakes in less damning positions.

Its also kind of insane how many people forget that the Orks will be shooting back, and in a lot of cases with quite a bit of fire power. I recon that 1250 point Ork list has enough power to overwhelm many lists with shooting power alone. Av10 vehicles, Infantry, and to a lesser extent Monsters are all susceptible to Orc Shooting. People can toute range advantage and kitting all they want, but in a practical situation it can be incredibly difficult to keep out of range of 180 Boyz for more than a few turns.

Ultimately I feel that killing 180 toughness 4 bodies with a nearly universal 5+ cover save with the fire power found in a normal 1250 point all comer list- you know, one that generally includes anti tank weapons like Melta Guns and Las Cannons- would be a daunting prospect. Especially when all these bodies are fearless in groups over 10, and scoring, and have exceptional shooting out to 18 inches, and one of the stronger overwatches in the game, it doesn't surprise me that the OP does well with this list against competitive opponents.

akaean - I think alot of the underestimating here comes from the fact that everything relies on Boyz.
While they can murder even dedicated assault troops, they cant really hurt armour. (glance AV10 to death thanks to FC)

Soo many armies these days run alot of armour, both on ground and in sky.
This really does limit the use of the orks as they wont be doing alot most of the time.

Sure, 180 boyz is alot, and most armies will not shoot through them in a normal game.
However, most armies wont need to as the orks cant hurt them.

Walkers in this case are a huge threat as they will tear into the boyz without any threat of being harmed in return.







I think just by cutting a unit of boys out and upgrading the rest will make this alot better.
Boyz need a klaw nob with a boss pole to function as well as they can.
Hell, since they are shoota boyz, give em 3 rokkit launchas each too.

5 units of boyz with 3 rokkitz each still manages 5 S8 hits with them per turn.
While its not alot, its still something helpful.
Also, due to having low BS anyway, needing a 6 to hit a flyer really isnt all that bad for orks.

I say cut some boyz, add in a klaw nob with pole as a must.
Then throw on rokkitz if points permit.

These units then go from limited use to being able to hurt anything in the game, which upgrades the threat they possess by alot.

Fliers can land on impassable terrain, just so you're aware.

 Jackal wrote:
akaean - I think alot of the underestimating here comes from the fact that everything relies on Boyz.
While they can murder even dedicated assault troops, they cant really hurt armour. (glance AV10 to death thanks to FC)

Soo many armies these days run alot of armour, both on ground and in sky.
This really does limit the use of the orks as they wont be doing alot most of the time.

Sure, 180 boyz is alot, and most armies will not shoot through them in a normal game.
However, most armies wont need to as the orks cant hurt them.

Walkers in this case are a huge threat as they will tear into the boyz without any threat of being harmed in return.










I think just by cutting a unit of boys out and upgrading the rest will make this alot better.
Boyz need a klaw nob with a boss pole to function as well as they can.
Hell, since they are shoota boyz, give em 3 rokkit launchas each too.

5 units of boyz with 3 rokkitz each still manages 5 S8 hits with them per turn.
While its not alot, its still something helpful.
Also, due to having low BS anyway, needing a 6 to hit a flyer really isnt all that bad for orks.

I say cut some boyz, add in a klaw nob with pole as a must.
Then throw on rokkitz if points permit.

These units then go from limited use to being able to hurt anything in the game, which upgrades the threat they possess by alot.

Agree with everything.

As a BA player I would gladly throw two Furiosos and a Death Company Dread right into these guys. Three scoring blobs most likely tied up for the remainder of the game in CC or at least for enough turns to make them useless.
At 1250 points this army could take a lot by surprise but many of the armies that I see in my area always try to cram at least one Land Raider in that size, and I guarantee that I would bring at least one Furioso to a tournament of that size so....yeah.
Then again BA aren't exactly competitive so take that as you will.
As far as shooty ability? Law of averages practically ENSURES that that many dice thrown will hit and wound a lot of units. I see this being a lethal meat grinder against infantry, and honestly even Terminators would be hard pressed to weather that much lead thrown at them. Trick is that they die pretty easily, and with the garbage BS I just don't think it will be enough to tip the scales. As for the OP what kind of armies has this beat? What are the skill level of the players? Are the armies that this list decimates of the top quality that the current meta can produce? I think that is the true tell of this army's effectiveness. Remember, playing the same five guys every single time in the local tourney is not necessarily the status quo of the meta...

The bane of this would be melee. But since nobody ever takes melee anymore, you would seriously troll a tournament with this list Right up until you hit a somewhat fluffy list with some odd list choices, at least. Hellbrutes and Berzerkers would do hilarious amounts of damage. But, like I said, nobody takes things like that in the current meta. DE would also roast your onion. As far as shooting, though, all you have to worry about is massed pie plates, and maybe torrents. Still, that's a lot of bodies to chew through. I have played against a footslogging IG enough to know how to make melee work in my favor, though.

 akaean wrote:

 MagickalMemories wrote:
My standard 1000 point Dark Eldar army would be good for one or two of your units a turn, unless you rolled some really lucky Ld tests. Even more easily done, once we got to within 12 inches! Charges wouldn't be a concern, as anything close enough to assault my vehicles would be so thoroughly annihilated that, even if it was there after my shooting phase, my Overwatch would put a big hurt on them when they charged.

If I get to add an extra 250 points, I could unload the slaughter that much more thoroughly.

I love Orks, but I just don't see this army doing well against a 6e shooty army.

Eric

I agree that 180 Orks of doom isn't the end all / be all of tournament lists, but I also think that a lot of people are guilty of underestimating the list. Its not like these are 180 slugga + choppa Boyz. These are all shoota boyz, and even with the superior mobility of Dark Eldar some of those boys are going to be getting within 18 inches of those vehicles. Raiders and Venoms can be glanced to death by shootas, and all the Boyz are getting a 5+ cover save against the poison weapons. Sure its not ideal, for da boyz, but it is far from an unwinnable fight like many posters are making it out to be.

I've never had a problem with 'stick and move" fighting with my DE. Even with the 5+ cover saves, which I'd considered, it's no match for an optimized DE low points list.
Also, in response to a comment I snipped for clarity, any good DE shooting list will be an "all comers" list. Every Raider should have a Dark Lance on it and one in it. That's in addition to the Ravagers (I typically field one with 3 DL and one with 3 Disintegrators).

The only way this beats an optimized DE list is luck, plain and simple.

Eric

The bane of this army is anything with armour 11+ or T7+
As well as ignore cover templates (180 boyz is hard to spread out).

I doubt this list would make it at my LGS (very competitive).

Need to keep in mind that horde thinning weapons really are in alot more use now.
These days near on every army has a way to deal with armour quickly, so people then invest in more units to mop up anything unarmoured.
So infantry killing weapons are now very common.

Heldrakes, wraith guard with scythes, combi-flamers are even used more.

Just seems there are a ton of ways to kill infantry now.



Also, alot of deathstars are near impossible to kill with massed boyz.
Draigo and paladins will wreck a unit a turn near on.
Bikernobz, thunderwolf cav, jetseers, it seems near on every power build can counter a wave of boyz.

Thats why i think upgrades in the unit are so important.

With my BA, i make the most from upgrades as they really boost a unit and make it 10x better.

A unit of sanguine guards are good.
Give them the banner and death masks and the damage output goes up alot.
Give 2-3 of them an inferno pistol and they can wreck armour aswell.
Sure, points add up, but alot of upgrades really are worth the cost as even adding a 2nd unit wont make the 1st any better than some upgrades can.

 Jackal wrote:
Need to keep in mind that horde thinning weapons really are in alot more use now.
These days near on every army has a way to deal with armour quickly, so people then invest in more units to mop up anything unarmoured.
So infantry killing weapons are now very common.

Heldrakes, wraith guard with scythes, combi-flamers are even used more.

Just seems there are a ton of ways to kill infantry now.



Also, alot of deathstars are near impossible to kill with massed boyz.
Draigo and paladins will wreck a unit a turn near on.
Bikernobz, thunderwolf cav, jetseers, it seems near on every power build can counter a wave of boyz.

Thats why i think upgrades in the unit are so important.

With my BA, i make the most from upgrades as they really boost a unit and make it 10x better.

A unit of sanguine guards are good.
Give them the banner and death masks and the damage output goes up alot.
Give 2-3 of them an inferno pistol and they can wreck armour aswell.
Sure, points add up, but alot of upgrades really are worth the cost as even adding a 2nd unit wont make the 1st any better than some upgrades can.

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

The most terrifying thing about this list is being an assault army against it, think about it, you charge into 60 s4 (i think don't quote me) shots even with space marines at least 2-3 will die, and thats without him shooting you first. You will spend at least one turn within 18" of at least one squad of boyz, probably 2, so before you even charge a unit of boys, 8 dead marines, ouchie ouchie ouch ouch. Two marines will do NOTHING to a unit of Orks.

danny1995 wrote:
The most terrifying thing about this list is being an assault army against it, think about it, you charge into 60 s4 (i think don't quote me) shots even with space marines at least 2-3 will die, and thats without him shooting you first. You will spend at least one turn within 18" of at least one squad of boyz, probably 2, so before you even charge a unit of boys, 8 dead marines, ouchie ouchie ouch ouch. Two marines will do NOTHING to a unit of Orks.

Hence why I wouldn't charge that mob with Sanguinary Guard

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

Haha, neither would i bud.
My only point there was really just to show that some upgrades for units are a must have most of the time.
Barebones units are nice, but they are limited because of it.

As a BA player though, i rather use a redeemer full of DC to deal with boyz.

Personally, I disagree entirely with "less boyz, add PK nob and rokkits"

 Jackal wrote:

I don't know if I'd march five Sanguinary Guard in a mob of 30 boyz...even with death masks and a banner that's an awful lot of attacks per turn to weather...and I absolutely LOVE the Sanguinary Guard.

Haha, neither would i bud.
My only point there was really just to show that some upgrades for units are a must have most of the time.
Barebones units are nice, but they are limited because of it.

As a BA player though, i rather use a redeemer full of DC to deal with boyz.

Yeah I think DC would destroy that pretty liberally. I know that a squad of five with good rolls can take out 12 boys so a Redeemer full should be plenty lol.

Also Devastators would have a field day with this list if you were running Plasma Cannons...

I'd run it like this:
HQ (220pts)
Big Mek (110pts)
Furious Charge, Independent Character, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Bosspole (*), Burna, Kustom force field (*), Mek's tools (*)
Big Mek (110pts)
Furious Charge, Independent Character, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Bosspole (*), Burna, Kustom force field (*), Mek's tools (*)
Elites (180pts)
Lootas (180pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
12x Loota
Troops (603pts)
Gretchin (117pts)
29x Gretchin
It's a Grot's Life
29x Grot blasta
Runtherd
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Grot-prod, Slugga, Squig hound (*)
Runtherd
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
Grot-prod, Slugga, Squig hound (*)
Ork Boyz (194pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
21x Boy
21x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Big shoota
Boy with special weapon
Big shoota
Nob
Bosspole (*), Power klaw
Ork Boyz (146pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
19x Boy
19x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Ork Boyz (146pts)
Furious Charge, Mob Rule, Waaagh!
19x Boy
19x Shoota
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Boy with special weapon
Rokkit launcha
Fast Attack (135pts)
Dakkajet (135pts)
Waagh! Plane
2 Twin-linked supa shootas, Additional twin-linked supa shoota, Fighta Ace (*), Red paint job (*)
Heavy Support (102pts)
Big Gunz (102pts)
3x Ammo runt (*), 3x Kannon
6x Extra Gretchin
6x Grot blasta
6x Gretchin
6x Grot blasta
Runtherd
Furious Charge
Grot-prod (*), Slugga, Squig hound (*)

The meks would walk with the rokkit shootas, bosspole would help them take maximum advantage of their higher \leadership when the time comes. a dakka jet is tasty for the range and transport popping at this level, then a load of lootas and fuly stocked kannonz for the higher armour enemies. burnas are nice with their anti power armour and anti horde capabilities. the grots are to slow up anyone who is heavily assault based to give me the counter charge.


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the grot prods are dynamite against monstrous creatures, which end up swinging uselesley againt the mass of grots while I peel them apart

This fighting a massed guard infantry behind an agies would be epic.

I've watched a similiar ork list with my group.... The list didn't work... His opponent was using mortar an medusa/basilisk/griffon ig and watched ork guy pick up an avg of 40 models per turn.... I guess just depends which list the ork player plays against.

I play a Necron Pirate ship list (AV13 all round on every unit) so really you couldn't get a single kill where as I could just park my ghost arks on objectives to contest them denying you of any points what so ever O.o I'd win by just getting first blood.

My Steel Legion would clean house.

Something to add, wave serpent spam - mobility and firepower.
This is something a 1250 list would bring and it would gobble up this list slowly albeit. I think Death company would literally have a blast against this list. They would be in slaughter heaven.

300 points worth of thunderfire cannons will definately ruin this "list" and as an added bonus six plasmacannons for 120 points from Inquisition Codex will let your opponent table you with only total of 420 points.

And yes I do bring these along me to a tourneys.

I would love to have that many boyz against me in a tourney match as after the battle I would have plenty of time to grab some cola and pizza vefore the other matches would finish.

My salamanders would have a good time, I wonder what roasted ork tastes like.

I'd just take a Trancendent C'Tan and blow half your army away turn one or two

I just used it in a 1250 tournament and won first I even beat a tyranid gaunt horde army

Your have a lot of useless wounds and it'll take a bit to kill it all but it's not impossible

Heck IG wyverans or whatever they are called will tear your list to pieces

This was posted several months ago...

For the love of god please do not start this again.

^ What has been started, cannot be unstarted.