Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 03:29:52
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
I know that it's a seriously oddball build, but has anyone tried running a unit of Big Guns with a Warboss in Mega-Armour?
It's an artillery unit, so it's T 7 against shooting. If the Warboss is at the front of the unit, he can take most hits on his 2+ Armour Save, but if there's something which threatens to hurt him badly, he can use Look Out Sir! to pass it off to a Grot Crewman. With up to a dozen Gretchin plus a Runtherd, there's plenty of spare wounds to lose before you have to worry about losing Gunz or the Boss.
It's more vulnerable in close combat, since majority WS and T rules mean most things will be hitting on a 3+ and wounding on a 2+. If I'm threatened with a unit trying to get into assault range, the best solution would seem to be moving the Warboss out of the unit and charging him into the enemy. Failing that, he can try and get into a challenge or just wait for all the Grots to get killed and hope he doesn't fail a morale check when they do. Not fantastic, but not a sure bet for the enemy either; charging at a Warboss is always a risky strategy.
According to the Slow & Purposeful rule you count as stationary when firing Heavy weapons, which I believe overrides the Artillery rule that you can't shoot if you moved. If so, the unit is at least somewhat mobile. If not, it's significantly less useful, but still pretty good if you use Lobbas rather than Kannons (although at that point the Warboss is a bit redundant and you would probably be better off putting him somewhere else).
It's a little more expensive than a Riptide, significantly less mobile and not quite as shooty (and it doesn't benefit from Markerlights, of course), but under ideal circumstances (against a gunline enemy) it's significantly tougher. It seems that the main disadvantage is that it uses two valuable FOC slots. Using an allied Dreadmob to get a Mega-Armour Big Mek instead of a Warboss would save a HQ slot, I guess, but if I was going to do that I'd be tempted to put a Big Mek with a Shokk Attack Gun and/or a Painboss in the unit instead.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 03:57:58
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
SNP doesn't override the artillerie's prohibition to shoot after any movement. So, you won't be able to move and shoot anywayz.
Though, noone disallows you to add indep to an artillery squad and use majority toughness 7. For example, SAG mek will be good in this situation.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 04:06:37
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
koooaei wrote:SNP doesn't override the artillerie's prohibition to shoot after any movement. So, you won't be able to move and shoot anywayz.
Though, noone disallows you to add indep to an artillery squad and use majority toughness 7. For example, SAG mek will be good in this situation.
I never thought of this. this would be a great idea.
I recently played a grunts only 1000 point tourney. I lost in the final match to a SM bike army with a TFC. had I joined my big Mek with SAG to one of the gun squads i would have had the 7 toughness?
btw, i ran 3 teams of 3 big guns (9 total) in the tourney. it was interesting.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 04:06:56
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 04:09:11
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
Johnnytorrance wrote: koooaei wrote:SNP doesn't override the artillerie's prohibition to shoot after any movement. So, you won't be able to move and shoot anywayz.
Though, noone disallows you to add indep to an artillery squad and use majority toughness 7. For example, SAG mek will be good in this situation.
I never thought of this. this would be a great idea.
I recently played a grunts only 1000 point tourney. I lost in the final match to a SM bike army with a TFC. had I joined my big Mek with SAG to one of the gun squads i would have had the 7 toughness?
btw, i ran 3 teams of 3 big guns (9 total) in the tourney. it was interesting.
Yep and you wouldn't have to buy runthred to keep them not-pinned and on board cause mek can hit with a bosspole.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 04:09:24
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 04:59:42
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Flashy Flashgitz
|
koooaei wrote:Johnnytorrance wrote: koooaei wrote:SNP doesn't override the artillerie's prohibition to shoot after any movement. So, you won't be able to move and shoot anywayz.
Though, noone disallows you to add indep to an artillery squad and use majority toughness 7. For example, SAG mek will be good in this situation.
I never thought of this. this would be a great idea.
I recently played a grunts only 1000 point tourney. I lost in the final match to a SM bike army with a TFC. had I joined my big Mek with SAG to one of the gun squads i would have had the 7 toughness?
btw, i ran 3 teams of 3 big guns (9 total) in the tourney. it was interesting.
Yep and you wouldn't have to buy runthred to keep them not-pinned and on board cause mek can hit with a bosspole.
Interesting, what big gunz do you use? I feel like there would be target priority conflicts between the two units though...
Granted, I do run kannons, and they typically fire at light vehicles, but are terrible against 2+ save infantry, whereas the SAG mek is a total waste against vehicles and best used against 2+ infantry
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 05:15:48
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
Lobbas are awesome! They're one of the best things our dex has atm.
So i put SAG mek either with lobbas or with Zzap gunz. It's no secret that Zzap gunz are very unreliable and overpriced. But SAG mek is also overpriced and unreliable. Besides, SAG's str 2d6 ap2, Zzap gun's str 2d6 ap2...they're made for each other! I pretend that mek wanted to produce a 4- th Zzap gun and SUDDENLY discovered how to send snots through the warp  Or that a SAG's working not like a warp-portal but just some more powerful and wierd super-zzap-gun.
So, when i want to go a bit more tactical and predictable - Lobbas. If i want to go nuts - Zzap gunz. Good, they're both easy to scratch-build.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 05:21:01
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 05:53:08
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
I feel like putting mab with grotsnik in some cyborked kannon crewmen would be trollish and cause lolz
|
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 06:40:05
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
'Dooooo EEEEET' !
I for one would love to see this inching its way across the board...
|
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 07:36:27
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
Mad Dok can't make them run because of SnP. (I guess he just spends the shooting phase screaming obscenities)
Majority T7, LoS to grots with an invul and FnP, 2+ Armor on point. If you made the batteries Zzap guns you could have some AP2 shooting at BS3 backed up by Ammo Runts. A Runtherd could absorb the first challenge. Unit kinda screams "Hit them with the AP2 pieplates" even still the grots aren't getting doubled so it's invul/FnP.
I'm sure my friend and I would both be giggling about it.
|
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 08:22:22
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
That's gona be a hell lot of points in a unit with 3 shots
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 08:57:27
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
|
Rismonite wrote:I feel like putting mab with grotsnik in some cyborked kannon crewmen would be trollish and cause lolz
Are you saying put Grotsnik with the crewmen? Because the problem with that is they'll have to move every turn.
|
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 09:41:31
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
There is one good thing about the Mad Doc - with the Artillery changes in 6th ed, the guns are now non-vehicle models, which means they can take Cybork bodies. Don't think it is intended, but it is RAW legal.
|
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 10:21:57
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
The downside is that htey won't be able to shoot at all.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 10:41:21
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
|
koooaei wrote:The downside is that htey won't be able to shoot at all.
Depends on your meta's interpretation of the RAW.
It is by no means a clear case.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 12:20:57
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
|
koooaei wrote:That's gona be a hell lot of points in a unit with 3 shots
If you take 3 Kannonz, 6 free Grots, 6 costy Grots, a Runtherd, and the Mad Dok, that is 17 models, 22 T7 wounds with FNP for 248. The number of shots aside, what would be the purpose of this unit?
|
I don't write the rules. My ego just lives and dies by them one model at a time. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 17:18:10
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
|
Ghenghis Jon wrote: koooaei wrote:That's gona be a hell lot of points in a unit with 3 shots
If you take 3 Kannonz, 6 free Grots, 6 costy Grots, a Runtherd, and the Mad Dok, that is 17 models, 22 T7 wounds with FNP for 248. The number of shots aside, what would be the purpose of this unit?
Obviously it's supposed to move around every turn to assault the closest enemy.
Grotsnik's one rule.
|
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 18:08:07
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
The Mega Armor Warboss with Mad Dok grants SnP to the unit.. preventing the running in shooting phase. However itd be difficult to get a ruling on being able to shoot because of the artillery rules. So at best just cut it to one gun battery and use the grots for T7 wounds. Awesome unit but now its just goofing up a heavy support slot.
|
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 18:14:04
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
|
Ond Angel wrote:Obviously it's supposed to move around every turn to assault the closest enemy.
Grotsnik's one rule.
How is the Gud Doktur supposed to do that with an Artillery unit? Do you know what the first sentence in the Assault section of the Artillery rules reads? That the unit cannot charge if there are any Artillery pieces. Have you really read the "One Scalpel Short of a Med Pack" rule? He can never leave the unit unless he is the last remaining member. So you have a unit that cannot charge.
If you go with the slightly cheaper option of a MegaArmoured Warboss or Big Mek, it may be able to shoot (it is debatable), but it will still be super slow. Maybe a Warboss on a Bike? I couldn't find any restriction on Artillery Running during the Shooting Phase, but there are those who say that a mixed unit cannot Run AND Turboboost. Depends on your opponent.
If your opponent allows the use of Forge World units, I would suggest joining the PainBoss from IA8 to the Big Gunz. Cheaper than a BikeBoss and the Dok, and controllable.
So, as to my original question, once it is on the table, how does this slow moving unit work with the rest of your army? What else are you bringing? What is this supposed to do? How will the rest of your list help you accomplish this?
I see this as a Meatshield providing 5+ cover to the Green Tide and Lootas behind it. What do you see it doing?
|
I don't write the rules. My ego just lives and dies by them one model at a time. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 18:24:15
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Nasty Nob
|
I suppose he could conga line the grots to deliver warboss, and leave gun batteries stationary so they can fire.
|
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 18:42:21
Subject: Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
|
Rismonite wrote:I suppose he could conga line the grots to deliver warboss, and leave gun batteries stationary so they can fire.
Once again, what is the purpose of this unit with the Warboss? Is it supposed to provide T7 only, or supply ablative wounds? I can't see the unit doing a conga line. If the Warboss does any LOS shooting wounds, those will cut the nearest Grots out of the line and they will have to try to maintain coherency in the next turn, which will probably slow the Warboss down even further. If the unit gets assaulted, the Warboss is reduced to Majority Toughness, which will be T2 if more than 3 Gretchin are left in the unit.
|
I don't write the rules. My ego just lives and dies by them one model at a time. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/04 19:04:34
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
|
Ghenghis Jon wrote: Ond Angel wrote:Obviously it's supposed to move around every turn to assault the closest enemy.
Grotsnik's one rule.
How is the Gud Doktur supposed to do that with an Artillery unit? Do you know what the first sentence in the Assault section of the Artillery rules reads? That the unit cannot charge if there are any Artillery pieces. Have you really read the "One Scalpel Short of a Med Pack" rule? He can never leave the unit unless he is the last remaining member. So you have a unit that cannot charge.
Touché.
However, he must still move towards the closest enemy.
Last time I checked artillery can move.
|
If I sound like I'm being a condescending butthole, I'm not. Read my reply as neutrally as possible, please and thank you. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 03:04:54
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Yellin' Yoof
Sydney, Australia
|
koooaei wrote:Lobbas are awesome! They're one of the best things our dex has atm.
So i put SAG mek either with lobbas or with Zzap gunz. It's no secret that Zzap gunz are very unreliable and overpriced. But SAG mek is also overpriced and unreliable. Besides, SAG's str 2d6 ap2, Zzap gun's str 2d6 ap2...they're made for each other! I pretend that mek wanted to produce a 4- th Zzap gun and SUDDENLY discovered how to send snots through the warp  Or that a SAG's working not like a warp-portal but just some more powerful and wierd super-zzap-gun.
So, when i want to go a bit more tactical and predictable - Lobbas. If i want to go nuts - Zzap gunz. Good, they're both easy to scratch-build.
Do you have any more info about how to scratch-build a Lobba?
|
- Crap Shooting, but GREAT leadership
~ 5000pt Death Skulls
FFG X-WING
FFG - Armada
Port Stephens are of NSW - PM me for a game if you're close by! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 04:09:21
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
!!Goffik Rocker!!
|
B0NES wrote: koooaei wrote:Lobbas are awesome! They're one of the best things our dex has atm.
So i put SAG mek either with lobbas or with Zzap gunz. It's no secret that Zzap gunz are very unreliable and overpriced. But SAG mek is also overpriced and unreliable. Besides, SAG's str 2d6 ap2, Zzap gun's str 2d6 ap2...they're made for each other! I pretend that mek wanted to produce a 4- th Zzap gun and SUDDENLY discovered how to send snots through the warp  Or that a SAG's working not like a warp-portal but just some more powerful and wierd super-zzap-gun.
So, when i want to go a bit more tactical and predictable - Lobbas. If i want to go nuts - Zzap gunz. Good, they're both easy to scratch-build.
Do you have any more info about how to scratch-build a Lobba?
Everyone does it their way. The easiest is to take artillery FB model but it still might be a bit pricy. I've seen people scratch-building it with lego wheels and bottle plug with glued armor bits and it looked unexpectedly good when painted! There are a million of ways to scratch build ork artillery. It has easy and not strict design.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/03/05 11:55:45
Subject: Re:Big Guns with Mega-Armour Warboss?
|
 |
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
|
Never disagreed with you.
|
I don't write the rules. My ego just lives and dies by them one model at a time. |
|
 |
 |
|