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I am having a friendly debate with my friend, and I swear I read somewhere that someone cannot charge on the first player turn but for the life of me I cannot find it.

Would someone be able to cite a page number if this is correct? Thanks guys.

You can charge first turn if you're in range and you're not prohibited from doing so by earlier actions.

I.E: If you deep strike, scout move, disembark, ect.

This means that if you do any of the latter in charge range of the enemy that you open yourself up to a charge in their first turn.

Then there's always the unlikely case that both players deploy exactly on the deployment line ahead of each other and the charging players move 12" and rolls doubles sixes for the charge.

Or, if you're using scarabs, you can spawn scarabs infront of your line of deployment and then move and charge...

The latter is kind of cheesy, but if you deploy on the deployment line, you should realise that you're opening yourself up to a turn 1 charge.

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Would someone be able to cite a page number if this is correct? Thanks guys.

It's in the Scout/Infiltrate rules. It's not a general rule.

sonicaucie wrote:
Then there's always the unlikely case that both players deploy exactly on the deployment line ahead of each other and the charging players move 12" and rolls doubles sixes for the charge.

Barring strange deployments, this can't happen. In all the BRB deployments, you must deploy "Anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line" (p.121). So at the start of turn 1 the two forces will be more than 24" apart and even a 12" move + 12" assault move isn't enough.

Orks can manage it without strange deployment.

Red wartrukks can move 1" more and still disembark.
Stormboys can add +D6" whenever they move

sonicaucie wrote:
You can charge first turn if you're in range and you're not prohibited from doing so by earlier actions.

I.E: If you deep strike, scout move, disembark, ect.

This means that if you do any of the latter in charge range of the enemy that you open yourself up to a charge in their first turn.

Then there's always the unlikely case that both players deploy exactly on the deployment line ahead of each other and the charging players move 12" and rolls doubles sixes for the charge.

Or, if you're using scarabs, you can spawn scarabs infront of your line of deployment and then move and charge...

The latter is kind of cheesy, but if you deploy on the deployment line, you should realise that you're opening yourself up to a turn 1 charge.

Not quite. Assuming any of the Eternal War missions from the BRB, "a player's deployment zone is defined as anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line". Assuming a 4 foot wide table, you will be, even if you are toeing the line, a fraction more than 24" away from one another. You would require more than 24" to get into contact.

Red Paint Job (orks) is one way to get that. As are a number of other methods that I'm not familiar with (as I don't use those armies).

So you cannot charge first player turn, (GENERALLY), not because of a special rule stating such, but rather because you will in all likelihood either be using a special rule that denies it or you will not (generally, with some exceptions) be able to get the 24.000001" + to get into base contact.

TehCheator wrote:

sonicaucie wrote:
Then there's always the unlikely case that both players deploy exactly on the deployment line ahead of each other and the charging players move 12" and rolls doubles sixes for the charge.

Barring strange deployments, this can't happen. In all the BRB deployments, you must deploy "Anywhere in their own table half that is more than 12" from the central line" (p.121). So at the start of turn 1 the two forces will be more than 24" apart and even a 12" move + 12" assault move isn't enough.

Huh, never realised that it was "more than 12".

I guess only units that can move > 12" or something similar to that effect are capable of turn 1 charges then.

There is a way to be in range first turn. If you have a unit that can infiltrate and scout. This was even answered in the faq. You infiltrate to 12/18 inches away then do a scout move. Then first turn move and charge.

 milkboy wrote:
There is a way to be in range first turn. If you have a unit that can infiltrate and scout. This was even answered in the faq. You infiltrate to 12/18 inches away then do a scout move. Then first turn move and charge.

Except infiltrate and scout both explicity forbid you from charging first player turn.

Ah that's right. I forgot about that. Then I guess you can gamble on that if you're going second.

You can, of course, do it in the reverse situation. Namely if your opponent infiltrates/scouts into range of you there's nothing stopping you running up and snotting him if you're going first.

A couple ways I can think of to get first turn assault:
There's nothing stopping you from charging *their* scouts and Infiltrators.
Orks have two ways: Red Paint Job for that extra inch, or Stormboys who can move 13-18" with their jump packs.
Scarabs spawning in front of the deployment line.
Scarabs teleporting through a Monolith.

EDIT: Oh, and Furiosos in Drop Pods can, too, if I recall.

Waaaghpower wrote:
A couple ways I can think of to get first turn assault:
There's nothing stopping you from charging *their* scouts and Infiltrators.
Orks have two ways: Red Paint Job for that extra inch, or Stormboys who can move 13-18" with their jump packs.
Scarabs spawning in front of the deployment line.
Scarabs teleporting through a Monolith.

EDIT: Oh, and Furiosos in Drop Pods can, too, if I recall.

The last two can't. The Scarabs are disembarking from a vehicle, and it's not open-topped or an Assault Vehicle. The Furiosos can't because they arrived from reserves. Although the Lucius Pattern drop pods from Forgeworld may let you, I'm not up to date on their current rules.

Dark Eldar, and anyone else with an assault/open-topped vehicle that's longer than it is wide, could potentially pull it off with the free pivot trick.

Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

Chrysis wrote:
Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

IIRC, Not on the first player turn.

The Magna grapple does not have the range needed to target a vehicle in your opponents deployment zone even if the dread moved 6 inches in the movement phase. (Of course that is assuming I recall correctly...)

 DeathReaper wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

IIRC, Not on the first player turn.

The Magna grapple does not have the range needed to target a vehicle in your opponents deployment zone even if the dread moved 6 inches in the movement phase. (Of course that is assuming I recall correctly...)

You're right. I was thinking solely in terms of the (potential) 12" pull, which doesn't matter much if you can't fire in the first place due to a 12" range.

Yeah there are numerous ways to get a turn 1 charge by charging over 24" (pivot trick, red paint, storm boyz) or by charging an enemy that has come to you (infiltrators, scouts, necrons DSing in your turn). However all of these require the person charged to be a moron, which can happen. The expansive 40"+ charges of 5th Ed have all been banned.

One of the warlord traits gives you an extra 1" when charging does it not ?

 DeathReaper wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

IIRC, Not on the first player turn.

The Magna grapple does not have the range needed to target a vehicle in your opponents deployment zone even if the dread moved 6 inches in the movement phase. (Of course that is assuming I recall correctly...)

You can if the Furioso is in the first wave of drop pods and lands close enough.

An Ork Big Mek firing the crazy gun that has a table you roll on can do it. One of the "misfire" options requires that you move the Mek forward and treat him as though he just successfully charged the unit he was shooting at. 1/36 chance to happen, but it CAN happen.

There are tons of other possibilities. None of them are likely and some require that your opponent makes poor decisions (deep striking or infiltrating too close to your close combat units, for example).

I had a buddy who played Deathwing and I would routinely get first turn charges off on him when he got to go first. Those termies are tough, but weight of numbers almost always works.

nobody wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

IIRC, Not on the first player turn.

The Magna grapple does not have the range needed to target a vehicle in your opponents deployment zone even if the dread moved 6 inches in the movement phase. (Of course that is assuming I recall correctly...)

You can if the Furioso is in the first wave of drop pods and lands close enough.

But then you can't assault since you just came in from Deep Strike.

edited for JinxDragon

Rigeld2,
I'm likely misreading, but can you add an edit on whom you where replying to so it is more clear to me?

Likely "nobody", who was talking about a magna grapple dreadnought 'podding in.

Thanks,
my original post would of been sorely out of place, carry on when I get my first cup of coffee after a few days straight.

Side question:
What was the name of that pod that Forgeworld produced?
The one which originally could allow assault after deep strike, but now works a drop-able bunker with pre-packaged embarked unit inside?

Lucius Pattern

Thanks, still like the image of a cowering dread hiding inside one but I am sure it probably is quite dangerous with the correct pay-load and a little luck....

rigeld2 wrote:

nobody wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Chrysis wrote:
Blood Angel Dreads with Magna-Grapples could possibly pull it off against a vehicle.

IIRC, Not on the first player turn.

The Magna grapple does not have the range needed to target a vehicle in your opponents deployment zone even if the dread moved 6 inches in the movement phase. (Of course that is assuming I recall correctly...)

You can if the Furioso is in the first wave of drop pods and lands close enough.

But then you can't assault since you just came in from Deep Strike.

edited for JinxDragon

I'll need to double check my BA codex when I get home, but you can drag into melee range no? Granted you aren't assaulting but you are in melee range during the assault phase.

nobody wrote:
I'll need to double check my BA codex when I get home, but you can drag into melee range no? Granted you aren't assaulting but you are in melee range during the assault phase.

I didn't see allowance to just be in B2B with the magna grapple on my quick glance.

Magna-Grapple after arriving from reserve won't work. The magna-grapple stops the target vehicle from coming within 1" of another vehicle and you cannot charge out of reserves.

If you had a magna grapple Dread in a pod land roughly midfield you could drag something to it. Then using a Librarian Dread with Wings of Sang. or another jump unit you could charge it.

So, you could move one dreadnought forward, drop pod a dreadnought in the centre+" and then use both to drag it into charge range of the first or another unit?