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 Peregrine wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Or your Ork Guard Titan Legion armies, which is what they will become in 7th edition...

Nah, 7th edition will just be Codex: Army. The FOC and entire concept of different factions will be removed in favor of allowing you to play with whatever you want. Point values will remain, however, so you can still brag about how big your collection of Citadel™ Miniatures™ is. But only TFGs will insist on strict point limits for games, since that would interfere with Forging™ The™ Narrative™.

I don't know if I should be more worried about my mental state or GWs because I fully expect half of that to come through.
Seriously, I'm not actually joking here...

 tjnorwoo wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.

And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness

You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.

So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?

If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSilo wrote:
I'm really confused. Why is there a separate Tempestus/Storm Trooper codex? Why are all the rumors about MTempestus, wtf is going on with Astra Militarum?

Tempestus sounds like a half-baked revamp of the Sisters of Battle, the halfway between IG and Space Marines.

In all likelihood its 2 pages of rules and adds another detachment into the mix.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tjnorwoo wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.

And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness

You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.

So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?

If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.

If they removed ST from the IG 'dex and replaced them with something that is basically the same, I wouldn't care. Cadians have Kasrkin, DKOK have Grenadiers, they could remove ST and just have a generic elite force that comes from within the IG itself instead of the ST.

Im talking remove them all together to force you to buy the other full priced dex for 2 pages of rules. If that happens the future is dark and full of terrors with GW.

What would be more interesting is if they get rid of veterans and put in storm troopers instead, forces a lot people to get new models.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I mean I love Storm Troopers - I have over 60 of the damned things to make up my Inquisitorial army - but they've never been good. I never expected to do well with my Inquisitorial force (and never really have).

People shouldn't act surprised that these new Stormies are just as bad as the old ones (25 point power fists? These people do not understand the rules of their own game...).

I know we shouldn't be, but you'd think at some point GW would learn? I mean, you'd think they'd at least make the correlation that good rules sell good models and good models with poor rules sell poorly. I *want* to buy a ton of these guys, but at the rumored prices, they're as much as Forgeworld DKoK Grenadiers, and I've already got a whole bunch of them, and at least in a DKoK AB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 tjnorwoo wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
You can have one Stormtrooper command squad per elite slot basically. They just require a 5-man normal trooper squad.

And there is something kinda funny depending on how the stormtrooper codex turns out. 50 Deepstriking kill teams (assuming melta) and 10 Taurox are only 1400pts Still leaves plenty of points for allies or other silliness

You can bet that "dex" will add a storm trooper detachment, because we need more franken-army bs.

So you think the stormtrooper stats will be in the new IG codex?

If storm troopers aren't in the new dex, and you need to buy the supplement in order to take them, then I suggest we all get a new hobby. Because that would be excessively greedy and underhanded, then again half the morons would buy it anyway, and the other half would defend it.

If they removed ST from the IG 'dex and replaced them with something that is basically the same, I wouldn't care. Cadians have Kasrkin, DKOK have Grenadiers, they could remove ST and just have a generic elite force that comes from within the IG itself instead of the ST.

I just started fearing that GW might be thinking about that... but instead of using Kasrkin as ST they'll move veterans from troops to elite.

M.

 Storm Shadow wrote:

 GuardRalph wrote:
Hmmm, looks good. Like it so far, good twist on what we have seen before.

thanks friend.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a quick paint job. would look much better IMO with an extra little tread in the center, then it won't look so top-heavy.

Spoiler:

I think it goes the wrong way when i look at it it screams monster truck it needs big wheels!
Like this!

I gotta say, the Taurox doesn't look at all fast to me. Tracked vehicles can be quite speedy, but since it doesn't have much in the way of visible suspension, it gives the impression that it'd shake itself apart going anything faster than a brisk jog, and probably give everyone inside concussions to boot.

Maybe GW wanted to go for a BvS 10, but told the designer that he had to use as many visual cues as possible from the other IG kits.

 Vaktathi wrote:
and at least in a DKoK AB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.

Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.

The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.

My! Somebody is pissed with this release :O

M.

Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it

I'm still getting it for the Schola Progenium fluff though. And maybe because it will make for a good Kill-team.

Going off the statline and point cost of the Scions, it appears they didn't learn why nobody takes storm troopers.

Well let's hope not everything else in the normal codex sucks now.

TuddFudders wrote:
Going off the statline and point cost of the Scions, it appears they didn't learn why nobody takes storm troopers.

Well let's hope not everything else in the normal codex sucks now.

Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!

 UlrikDecado wrote:
Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!

But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.

What storm troopers actually needed was to keep their current rules, drop a bit in price, and add a Valkyrie (NOT Vendetta) dedicated transport option and/or a FOC swap to make them scoring. But apparently GW's rule authors don't play the game they're writing rules for, and we're stuck with this joke of a unit for a few years.

You're pretty confident that the WD rules are the full and complete rules for the unit, and that they aren't going to benefit from any hitherto unseen changes in the new guard codex or any new material in the stormtrooper codex.

I get that based on the WD the loss of special operations is a problem, but it's probably the case that that isn't the full picture. Gonna wait and see.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
and at least in a DKoK AB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.

Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.

The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.

Actually I fail to see what Troops you are refering to as dedicated anti-MEQ infantry. I might be stupid but I can´t see it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 UlrikDecado wrote:
Yeah, they made them cheaper, gave them command squad, orders, some more toys and fast transport with solid firepower. Silly GW. I was expecting 15/15/15 taurox with D launchers and 2pts Scions with 48'' melta torrent snipers too...such disappointment. Scions suck mate, I stand with ya!

But now they have no purpose. They're essentially veteran squads that don't score, and IG have absolutely no use for non-scoring infantry that just kill marines reasonably well. Storm troopers had exactly one reason to exist in the current codex: their special deployment options. Take those away and you're left with a redundant unit and a transport that is just garbage. The only way the new storm troopers are going to be even moderately useful is if veteran squads are nerfed into uselessness and IG players are desperate for any unit that can take more than one BS 3 melta gun.

What storm troopers actually needed was to keep their current rules, drop a bit in price, and add a Valkyrie (NOT Vendetta) dedicated transport option and/or a FOC swap to make them scoring. But apparently GW's rule authors don't play the game they're writing rules for, and we're stuck with this joke of a unit for a few years.

Now we are talking and not just "it suuuucks" Well, not really if you speak about joke units, but, well, its you, I take it as matter of personality Except the part where the transport is garbage. Its not, sorry, serves its use well in both versions. Yeah, its paper...so is chimera. But really, to tired with horde of discussion where transport without 13/12/12 is bad.

For the purpose. Scions have now, IMO, greater range of options. We dont know stats of hotshot lasgun. We dont know range of orders. We dont know what is in SW list.
For the FoC swap - are you sure that Tempestus cant be your primary with scoring rules? Because what we see is just WD snippets of rules... What really interests me if in full codex with they have doctrines - lose of deep strike reroll would actually hurt.

And in the final, yeah, you are just saying "it suuuucks" because only way to play IG is stuff vets into chimera and fly around with dettas Sorry mate, the game can be played in other ways and its still fun and good, there isnt one way to play it But, maybe GW doesnt really play the game, maybe you are right...certainly...

For those wondering how they can release a Stormtroopers codex alongside the real one, it's a supplement:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440238a&prodId=prod2100012a
This only really adds a primaris power, a couple of ways to change the HQ slot, and new relics.
Oh, and fluff. Lots of fluff.

Releasing it before the main codex just suggests it's a standalone book, but what could they possibly have in there to make it worth the cost?

 Skinnereal wrote:
For those wondering how they can release a Stormtroopers codex alongside the real one, it's a supplement:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440238a&prodId=prod2100012a
This only really adds a primaris power, a couple of ways to change the HQ slot, and new relics.
Oh, and fluff. Lots of fluff.

Except it doesn't release alongside, it releases before.

You will also note, the storm trooper codex cover does NOT say it's a supplement. All other supplements (that I know of at least) specifically state on the cover that it's a supplement. Iyanden, Clan Raukaan, Sentinels of Terra, Farsight Enclaves.

So either the pictures we have are lying to us (totally possible!) or the storm troopers codex is stand-alone.

 Skinnereal wrote:
For those wondering how they can release a Stormtroopers codex alongside the real one, it's a supplement:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440238a&prodId=prod2100012a
This only really adds a primaris power, a couple of ways to change the HQ slot, and new relics.
Oh, and fluff. Lots of fluff.

Releasing it before the main codex just suggests it's a standalone book, but what could they possibly have in there to make it worth the cost?

This is wrong - the leaks clearly show it's being billed as a codex rather than a supplement, check out the images in first post

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I gotta say, the Taurox doesn't look at all fast to me. Tracked vehicles can be quite speedy, but since it doesn't have much in the way of visible suspension, it gives the impression that it'd shake itself apart going anything faster than a brisk jog, and probably give everyone inside concussions to boot.

But it has 4 tracks!

That's twice as many tracks as a slow tracked vehicle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bull0 wrote:
Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it

Er... but can't they do that anyway, with the allies rules...?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
and at least in a DKoK AB list they have some mitigators for their appallingly bad statline.

Honestly the DKoK grenadiers are pretty good. 12 points a model gets you BS/WS 4, carapace armor, immunity to morale problems from shooting losses, and a decent gun. As a troops stat line I don't really know what else you can expect. The new storm troopers aren't bad because of their stat line, they're bad because they don't seem to have any kind of coherent role. They can't score, they can't really deliver special weapons all that effectively, they can't outflank/infiltrate anymore. They're dedicated MEQ killers in an army that has an abundance of dedicated anti-MEQ infantry in troops, and an abundance of tanks that just slaughter MEQs.

The melee weapon point costs and loss of pistol + CCW don't really have any impact on their competitive value, they're just proof that GW's rule authors (I refuse to call such hopeless incompetents "game designers") have absolutely no clue how the game works. But apparently GW exists for the sole purpose of providing "productive" employment for complete idiots who would otherwise have no hope of rising above a career as a janitor or burger flipper.

I have to agree with you here. GW's "rule authors" somehow took an already overpriced unit and made it slightly worse while effectively removing a lot of options. The only role for Stormtroopers now, is to deepstrike, melta something, and die, and they are slightly worse at that than before. If you ever deploy them on the table, they will be gone turn one.

These couple of releases related to IG have somehow been both confusing and disappointing to me. I have been an IG player for a long time, and this isn't giving me the itch to buy more miniatures or even start playing 40K again. Only the Hydra is a little bit interesting.

Two remarks:
1.) The main Codex being released in the second week is not due to some shipping delays, but to a general shift in release schedule, that has to fill the weekly WD.
2.) To be fair: The new WD makes no effort at all to hide the fact that IG will be renamed. On the cover you see the biggest headline ASTRA MILTARUM". Turn the page and the editorial begins with "The Astra Militarum, also known as Imperiual Guard, ...", turn another page and the scions are introduced as the "warrior elite of Astra Miltarum". The Taurox article begins with "The Astra Militarum uses the Taurox as ...", the "MT Codex" article begins with The Militarum Tempestus is the elite of the Astra Militarum". Changing the name might be silly, but they don't make a secret of it but instead shove the new name down your throat every second page.

At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
At first I thought the Taurox had 2 engines because of the headers at the front and the exhaust stacks at the rear... I just realised the headers run back IN to the vehicle and then out again to the exhaust stacks.

Yes, and everyone who wants to flee from the exhausts filling the cabin is shot by the autocannons pointing at the doors

BTW the interior shows that the tracked vehicle is steered by a steering wheel!

Scions look solid, but the Taurox prime is DOA in competitive play. It's a good unit with speed, accuracy, transport, and loads of dakka for a good price. That being said smart opponents will make it a priority to shoot a prime loaded with scions before shooting an av12 chimera loaded with less precious cargo or most other av12 targets. A good unit can turn bad real fast if it's easy and obvious for the enemy to counter it.

 insaniak wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Seriously people you're getting worked up over nothing - codex MT exists so that non imperial guard players can field the new models, that's all. I guarantee it

Er... but can't they do that anyway, with the allies rules...?

Sure they can, as long as they don't mind taking a CCS and a troops choice too! Which they 99% likely won't have to with the stormtroopers book.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Two remarks:
1.) The main Codex being released in the second week is not due to some shipping delays, but to a general shift in release schedule, that has to fill the weekly WD.
2.) To be fair: The new WD makes no effort at all to hide the fact that IG will be renamed. On the cover you see the biggest headline ASTRA MILTARUM". Turn the page and the editorial begins with "The Astra Militarum, also known as Imperiual Guard, ...", turn another page and the scions are introduced as the "warrior elite of Astra Miltarum". The Taurox article begins with "The Astra Militarum uses the Taurox as ...", the "MT Codex" article begins with The Militarum Tempestus is the elite of the Astra Militarum". Changing the name might be silly, but they don't make a secret of it but instead shove the new name down your throat every second page.

The most likely answer to this whole thing is that they wanted to release the scions first and wanted to give people rules for the week between release and the new books. So they put them in WD with rules that work with the old codex. Silly, but probably what's going on.