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 krazynadechukr wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote:
....... the ball is round.

Now imagine that someone has increased the price of the ball. And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.
Now you have to spend more money to get the "correct" ball(s).

Well, man up and get some balls!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol, you got to admit you walked into that one.

Seriously fan boy?

Clearly your insults make everything right with the world....

 alarmingrick wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

Left Hand of the Pheonix wrote:
....... the ball is round.

Now imagine that someone has increased the price of the ball. And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.
Now you have to spend more money to get the "correct" ball(s).

Well, man up and get some balls!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol, you got to admit you walked into that one.

Seriously fan boy?

Clearly your insults make everything right with the world....

With the uptick in personal attacks being levied against people issuing legitimate criticism (i.e. "whinging"), I keep getting this image in my head.




Seriously, is no complaint valid at this point? It appears that a considerable number of units are to be removed from the codex, but we should just thank our benevolent GW masters for just gracing us with a new codex? Each new model comes with an uptick in price (i.e. the Hydra/Wyvern now sets the highest price for Heavy Support, even though all the other Heavy Support units are *also* dual-purpose). And there are a number of other complaints, some of which are fair and others aren't, but I feel like every complaint is being met with the same non-issue-addressing, take-it-or-leave it attitude.

Conversations are looking more like the trial scene in Idiocracy.

Whinging and moaning™ is the new black. However, it doesn't justify all the backbiting, so why don't we all settle down and think about the game.

Back on topic, Chimaeras were cheap in the 5th edition codex, and naturally people are going to be upset if they go up in price. IDK if the price is justified.

As for the 25 point Power Fist, I can only suppose that GW don't really want the IG to have a lot of them because it would be unfluffy. Maybe use Meltaguns instead.

Conversations are looking more like the trial scene in Idiocracy.

Welcome to the internet!

 UlrikDecado wrote:
So, you are not playing the game for two years (almost) but are still dancing around and shoving your rage into other peoples faces? Yeah, its the same like penis. I believe you have it, but I dont need to be slapped by it

But, otherwise, I see you as pitiable victim, being out of game for such a time and still needing to fret about it on the internet. You dont play but spend whole days on Dakka telling other people how this and that codex is simply bad and GW is evil? Mate, it sound serious...

Good lord, man! Nowhere, in that rambling, incoherent response were you close to making a coherent and correct assessment. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

I'm not "raging". I don't think I have inappropriately strong emotions about the topic at all. I've been polite, not resorted to ridiculous hyperbole or called anyone who disagreed with me inane names, or even hit the swear filter. To call my comments "raging" is to rob the word of all its value and meaning. Nowhere did I say that "GW is evil". Nowhere did I say that the "codex is simply bad". I merely stated that I was unhappy with the specific choices they'd made, and the models they had designed. Your accusations reveal far more about your own state of mind than mine, friend. As does your crude attempt at a genitals-based comparison. I don't want your pity any more than I appreciate your misbegotten attempts at categorizing me according to some imaginary schema in your head.

Furthermore, it might shock you, but there are other games than just 40k, and this forum, for all its faults, is the best source for Kickstarter and new release news from all kinds of manufacturers. Until such a time that 40k gaming is considered a binding prerequisite to posting here, I will remain a member of this forum, and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do to stop me. And "whole days"? Seriously? It took me all of 10 minutes to write all my replies in this thread, and maybe 15-30 minutes to review it. Hardly a massive expenditure of time.

In closing, let me leave you with this. Bah humbug.

 alarmingrick wrote:
And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.

Why wouldn't they be legal? Will using your old "balls" bring a SWAT-Team down your door?

The concept of legal doesn't really apply to a consensual past-time.

 Accolade wrote:
[

Seriously, is no complaint valid at this point? It appears that a considerable number of units are to be removed from the codex, but we should just thank our benevolent GW masters for just gracing us with a new codex? Each new model comes with an uptick in price (i.e. the Hydra/Wyvern now sets the highest price for Heavy Support, even though all the other Heavy Support units are *also* dual-purpose). And there are a number of other complaints, some of which are fair and others aren't, but I feel like every complaint is being met with the same non-issue-addressing, take-it-or-leave it attitude.

I think it may be too early to complain about specific rules for specific units at this point, as we haven't got an entire 'dex to look at. So, in that light, I think rules complaints may not be entirely valid, since we don't know ALL the new rules, or how they interact with old rules. There may be some OP combination of rules that we don't know about, simply because we haven't seen a full codex yet.

On the other hand, complaints about ugly models and highway-robbery prices are totally valid, because we have pictures of said ugly models and GW's pre-order price list to reference.

And speaking of ugly models, it looks like the IG aren't getting any new sculpts apart from the Hydra/Wyvern. Everything else we've seen (stormtroopers, taurox, ogryns) can be used in a stormtrooper army or an IG army, but the only new model that seems to be IG only is the Hydra/Wyvern. I was worried that something like this would happen when I saw all the new models popping up for the stormtrooper army back in March...

squidhills wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
[

Seriously, is no complaint valid at this point? It appears that a considerable number of units are to be removed from the codex, but we should just thank our benevolent GW masters for just gracing us with a new codex? Each new model comes with an uptick in price (i.e. the Hydra/Wyvern now sets the highest price for Heavy Support, even though all the other Heavy Support units are *also* dual-purpose). And there are a number of other complaints, some of which are fair and others aren't, but I feel like every complaint is being met with the same non-issue-addressing, take-it-or-leave it attitude.

I think it may be too early to complain about specific rules for specific units at this point, as we haven't got an entire 'dex to look at. So, in that light, I think rules complaints may not be entirely valid, since we don't know ALL the new rules, or how they interact with old rules. There may be some OP combination of rules that we don't know about, simply because we haven't seen a full codex yet.

On the other hand, complaints about ugly models and highway-robbery prices are totally valid, because we have pictures of said ugly models and GW's pre-order price list to reference.

And speaking of ugly models, it looks like the IG aren't getting any new sculpts apart from the Hydra/Wyvern. Everything else we've seen (stormtroopers, taurox, ogryns) can be used in a stormtrooper army or an IG army, but the only new model that seems to be IG only is the Hydra/Wyvern. I was worried that something like this would happen when I saw all the new models popping up for the stormtrooper army back in March...

Actually, Ogryns can not be used in a stormtrooper army, iirc.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Whinging and moaning™ is the new black. However, it doesn't justify all the backbiting, so why don't we all settle down and think about the game.

Back on topic, Chimaeras were cheap in the 5th edition codex, and naturally people are going to be upset if they go up in price. IDK if the price is justified.

As for the 25 point Power Fist, I can only suppose that GW don't really want the IG to have a lot of them because it would be unfluffy. Maybe use Meltaguns instead.

I don't feel that stating a feeling or opinion is "whinging" just because it runs counter to other's feelings or opinions.

As to the Chimera, I feel it's completely unjustified. Clearly the changes made to the Chimera are to push sales of the Taurox.

That, and the nerf/correction to the Vendetta, aren't a "problem" IMHO. Removing units people have paid good money to use for the sole reason that another company
doesn't make money is what I'm mostly bothered by. FFS the 3 Griffons I own were MADE BY GW.

Actually, the rules for the Griffon are still in Imperial Armor 1, so it's not like the Tyranid codex where many units were culled.

Of course, that just makes things inconvenient, especially as IA is not sold in stores.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:
And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.

Why wouldn't they be legal? Will using your old "balls" bring a SWAT-Team down your door?

The concept of legal doesn't really apply to a consensual past-time.

I refuse to engage with you that way Z. You know full well what I mean by legality.

squidhills wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
[

Seriously, is no complaint valid at this point? It appears that a considerable number of units are to be removed from the codex, but we should just thank our benevolent GW masters for just gracing us with a new codex? Each new model comes with an uptick in price (i.e. the Hydra/Wyvern now sets the highest price for Heavy Support, even though all the other Heavy Support units are *also* dual-purpose). And there are a number of other complaints, some of which are fair and others aren't, but I feel like every complaint is being met with the same non-issue-addressing, take-it-or-leave it attitude.

I think it may be too early to complain about specific rules for specific units at this point, as we haven't got an entire 'dex to look at. So, in that light, I think rules complaints may not be entirely valid, since we don't know ALL the new rules, or how they interact with old rules. There may be some OP combination of rules that we don't know about, simply because we haven't seen a full codex yet.

I'm not really sure how any of that is relevant to having units removed from the codex. While I care about how things interact, that doesn't magically make me forget that things have been removed.

Also, I couldn't care less about OP combinations, that's not what I want, what I want is a diverse codex where there AREN'T uber-monobuild-unbalanced-combos. Looking at the 'nid codex, I don't really care that the Flyrant is awesome when considering the fact my Walkrant sucks and my Raveners suck and my Lictors suck and so on.

And speaking of ugly models, it looks like the IG aren't getting any new sculpts apart from the Hydra/Wyvern. Everything else we've seen (stormtroopers, taurox, ogryns) can be used in a stormtrooper army or an IG army, but the only new model that seems to be IG only is the Hydra/Wyvern. I was worried that something like this would happen when I saw all the new models popping up for the stormtrooper army back in March...

After we'd seen the Taurox, Ogryns, ST and Hydra back several weeks ago I did say I didn't expect to see anything else because most other armies have only gotten 3-4 new plastic kits, often one of which is just a repackage. I'm sure I can go back and find the posts where people were bitching at me because I was expecting to be disappointed way back then, lol.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Of course, that just makes things inconvenient, especially as IA is not sold in stores.

Or legal at all Tournies, game groups, etc...

Haven't seen this yet, but a poster over on warseer posted the the bullgryn's 'brute shield' gives a 5+ invul save!

I still plan on playing with and using my Griffons using the IA rules. I've got too much invested in them monetarily and in time spent painting them to not use them. I'll likely pick up the IA volume at some point to have the rules (and for the fluff and pictures too, to be sure).

The Griffon Heavy Mortar is unique in that it *does* have an actual GW model. Granted, it was discontinued and is now OOP, but the fact remains that they are GW models and not FW models. You just have to get the most current rules for them from Forgeworld.

Both of my Griffons (Viewable in my Gallery for any who might care to look) are the old school GW kits.

We'll see what shakes out in the new codex. So far the only complaint I've got is the (potential) removal of the Artillery units from the codex.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

squidhills wrote:

And speaking of ugly models, it looks like the IG aren't getting any new sculpts apart from the Hydra/Wyvern. Everything else we've seen (stormtroopers, taurox, ogryns) can be used in a stormtrooper army or an IG army, but the only new model that seems to be IG only is the Hydra/Wyvern. I was worried that something like this would happen when I saw all the new models popping up for the stormtrooper army back in March...

After we'd seen the Taurox, Ogryns, ST and Hydra back several weeks ago I did say I didn't expect to see anything else because most other armies have only gotten 3-4 new plastic kits, often one of which is just a repackage. I'm sure I can go back and find the posts where people were bitching at me because I was expecting to be disappointed way back then, lol.

It's not even true, anyway, did you miss the horrible Commissar? That's a new sculpt. Of course, you can also use it with the Militarum Tempestus book, which apparently means it "doesn't count" as a new IG sculpt, because of reasons.

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:
And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.

Why wouldn't they be legal? Will using your old "balls" bring a SWAT-Team down your door?

The concept of legal doesn't really apply to a consensual past-time.

I refuse to engage with you that way Z. You know full well what I mean by legality.

You don't have to engage me. But you know full well that you are only entrapped by your own refusal to engage the opponent across the table, if you think a unit is "illegal", just because it isn't in the latest codex. Really, the only thing holding you back is the fear of asking a simple question.

Heafstaag wrote:
Haven't seen this yet, but a poster over on warseer posted the the bullgryn's 'brute shield' gives a 5+ invul save!

Truly the savior of the codex right here. Everything else was justified.

TuddFudders wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:
Haven't seen this yet, but a poster over on warseer posted the the bullgryn's 'brute shield' gives a 5+ invul save!

Truly the savior of the codex right here. Everything else was justified.

Well, the one pic I've seen of the ogryn with the rumored power maul and brute shield looks pretty good...and ogryns with an inful save sound pretty fun.

best part is that 5++ and power maul come at a bargain of 15 pts making your ogryns only 60 ppm, also, if you order now, you can get get a free set of steak knives

 Kirasu wrote:
Why was his rebalancing good when they in turn made Terminators an incredibly poor choice?

Please re-read this statement and mine. If I have to reiterate for a third time that I'm not talking about Deathwing as a whole I may just have an aneurysm.

Terminators suck regardless in this edition. The changes made to Belial were justified since in the previous book he was absurdly undercosted.

You can't just look at Belial and go "okay he should cost more" when his ENTIRE purpose for existing was nerfed.

This statement is complete gibberish. He had to cost more because as a single model he was undercosted. A fearless Terminator Captain with TH/SS that makes Termies troops should not be 130, period.

And besides, I'd argue that Deathwing were never nerfed deliberately, just a victim of a changing meta, and a consequence of being buffed was a price increase that amplified the former problem. [/b]

They made him more expensive because of abilities that were good in 5th edition with a codex from 4th edition, yeah that makes sense.

[citation needed]

Deepstrike with no scatter is great in this edition, precision shot didn't exist in 5th edition.

.

AV12 with 6 mid-strength shots for 55 points was about 10 points undercosted anyway, compare it to vehicles from other Codexes, you do not find many things close to it for 55 or less at all, and when you do I bet that they don't get carry capacity as well.

 Bull0 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

squidhills wrote:

And speaking of ugly models, it looks like the IG aren't getting any new sculpts apart from the Hydra/Wyvern. Everything else we've seen (stormtroopers, taurox, ogryns) can be used in a stormtrooper army or an IG army, but the only new model that seems to be IG only is the Hydra/Wyvern. I was worried that something like this would happen when I saw all the new models popping up for the stormtrooper army back in March...

After we'd seen the Taurox, Ogryns, ST and Hydra back several weeks ago I did say I didn't expect to see anything else because most other armies have only gotten 3-4 new plastic kits, often one of which is just a repackage. I'm sure I can go back and find the posts where people were bitching at me because I was expecting to be disappointed way back then, lol.

It's not even true, anyway, did you miss the horrible Commissar? That's a new sculpt. Of course, you can also use it with the Militarum Tempestus book, which apparently means it "doesn't count" as a new IG sculpt, because of reasons.

Sorry I wasn't counting characters in my tally, forgot to mention that.

But yeah, the Commissar does nothing to buoy my spirits, all it did was make me buy all the old good looking ones before they get removed so I don't have to buy the new ugly arse one, lol.

As soon as I saw the new Commissar I went on the GW site and noticed on the US store the old Commissars were vanishing so jumped in and bought all the ones I don't already have.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:
And the ball(s) you've spent years collecting, saving up for and painting isn't/aren't legal.

Why wouldn't they be legal? Will using your old "balls" bring a SWAT-Team down your door?

The concept of legal doesn't really apply to a consensual past-time.

I refuse to engage with you that way Z. You know full well what I mean by legality.

You don't have to engage me. But you know full well that you are only entrapped by your own refusal to engage the opponent across the table, if you think a unit is "illegal", just because it isn't in the latest codex. Really, the only thing holding you back is the fear of asking a simple question.

If you pay this much money on a game and models it would be nice to go anywhere, play with anyone and have everything "fit" without having to jump through hoops, get permission and a different book just to use what you already own. I see what you are saying. Do you see what I am saying?

Just a quick question: Are the Artillery rules/costs in IA1 identical to the ones in the old IG codex? Because if so, there's nothing stopping anyone just using the old codex rules and saying 'these are now FW, but the stats are the same, ok?'

Might save people some money on the IA book.

I will say, did anyone else notice that bullgryn are listed as relentless? It makes me wonder if the grenade gauntlet is a heavy or rapidfire weapon. If it isnt, relentless would be rather pointless

 Zweischneid wrote:
You don't have to engage me. But you know full well that you are only entrapped by your own refusal to engage the opponent across the table, if you think a unit is "illegal", just because it isn't in the latest codex. Really, the only thing holding you back is the fear of asking a simple question.

You can keep repeating your whole "talk about it" nonsense all you like, but the indisputable fact is that many people play 40k as a pickup game in a store, where the expectation is that you follow the normal rules of the game and many people are reluctant to include house rules. And many of us do not like the fact that now we have to negotiate to be allowed to use our army, instead of just showing up and playing a game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:
Just a quick question: Are the Artillery rules/costs in IA1 identical to the ones in the old IG codex? Because if so, there's nothing stopping anyone just using the old codex rules and saying 'these are now FW, but the stats are the same, ok?'

The rules are the same, because when they were printed there was no reason to believe that they were anything other than a copy of the codex rules that was included to go along with all of the fluff pages about those tanks.

 alarmingrick wrote:


If you pay this much money on a game and models it would be nice to go anywhere, play with anyone and have everything "fit" without having to jump through hoops, get permission and a different book just to use what you already own. I see what you are saying. Do you see what I am saying?

Yes. In a perfect world. Sure...

But you're living in GW-world, not the perfect world.

If you already have a cool miniature you like to game with, and you aren't living in that perfect world where everything is in the book, would you

a) play with your cool miniatures anyhow, cause it's cool and all it takes is a simple question
b) trash your cool miniature, out of some idealistic crusade to "force" GW into the perfect game that will never exist by your own hobby-self-mortification of insisting on misleading categorizations of "legal".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
. And many of us do not like the fact that now we have to negotiate to be allowed to use our army, instead of just showing up and playing a game.

Exactly. It's the one thing you'll need to change, if you want to have fun in the game.

If you insist on it, 40K will forever be a frustration to you, because 40K is (increasingly too) moving away from this.

c) Stop playing GW games and take your money elsewhere.

 Peregrine wrote:
c) Stop playing GW games and take your money elsewhere.

Of course.

Just saying if you want to stick with 40K, you shouldn't try playing it against the grain of it's core-design principles.

And what happens when that "simple question" is answered with a no, instead of the warm, welcoming yes you envision?

I live in my world, Z.