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I'm kind of shocked that pask is still around because you know.... he's metal......

 Stus67 wrote:

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

Just pretty low? So you do give some feths then?

If you don't care when models you bought, built and painted get binned, you are in a very strange minority. The vast majority of gamers would be rightly annoyed, there is absolutely nothing "entitled" or whiny about it, and I am not a big gamer or a GW hater, far from it, I find the endless complaints of some people on here to be trifling and childish, but feth me, you have to sit on the fence if you want to have any credibility, and if I spent a good 20 hours on some of my best vehicles, and they suddenly got binned, of course I am going to get irritated, to suggest you don't care at all is illogical.

I mean, I don't REALLY care because I don't play Guard and like I said, the SM (my only army) have been relatively unaffected by these shenanigans, but obviously I feel for other players. If they ditched my very well painted TFC or Predator from the codex and provided no explanations or acceptable alternatives I could play it is, of course I would be annoyed.

Its logical and fair to say that suddenly having items that you invest time and money become useless is annoying, and I don't see how you can square that circle by just saying "I don't care because I am rich/cool"

Even if you don't care because you are rich and cool and pay for other people to assemble and paint your models, surely you can understand the annoyance on the part of others?

In Italian a Senior Officer is called Ufficiali Superiori not anziani, that means older (and who knows what else they got wrong). The Spanish version is worse with unit names no longer translated and mistakes in the formating... and they are asking me to pay 39€ for that. I shudder thinking how GW translated the IG codex to Japanese. Can we ask for a rebate for every mistake?

I'm sure GW must be the best company in the world to be working for right now, if the interns (masters in their own right of finetranslating(TM)) apparently get to do the important stuff unsupervised must be because the devs are brainstorming the next codex all day long under the warm caribbean sun.

M.

Reposting this from another forum, I'd like to provoke a good debate on this:

Rough Riders are extremely underrated.

On average, just to give a few examples of why, a unit of 10 Rough Riders beats the following on a charge:

10 BA Assault Marines, 70% of the time 180~+ pts
10 Dark Eldar Incubi, 70% of the time 250~+ pts
10 Striking Scorpions, 55~% of the time 160+~ pts (probably considerably more than that)
1/3 of the time they can single handedly beat 25 Ork Boys without any support 180~ pts
10 Grey Hunters, 70% of the time -150~ points
10 Khorne Berserkers, 70% of the time 200~+ pts

(Calculated using 40k Combat Simulator)

How much is a unit of 10 Rough Riders? 110 points.

This does not factor the extra attack they have with the new Dex either, as the app hasn't been updated to consider that. You just need to make sure you don't throw them out in open ground or in a place where they'll get shot up and expect them to survive. They are not the sort of unit you throw at the enemy and expect to reap huge kill counts, they are a counter attack unit.

you guys complain a lot... from what i have heard this book is going to be amazing... I don't get this "Most play groups don't allow forge world" business, most people i play against run triple riptide or wraithknight. If your playing 40k to be tournament competitive your in the wrong game, go play chess or poker. Everything in the new book seems good, so they got rid of some special characters, ITS THE IMPERIAL GUARD! where billions and billions of men die every year, who cares for special characters!

Stealing a photo from our own Xanthos
Close the hatch and there you are LR with Pask upgrade.

M

 jae4x4 wrote:
you guys complain a lot... from what i have heard this book is going to be amazing... I don't get this "Most play groups don't allow forge world" business, most people i play against run triple riptide or wraithknight. If your playing 40k to be tournament competitive your in the wrong game, go play chess or poker. Everything in the new book seems good, so they got rid of some special characters, ITS THE IMPERIAL GUARD! where billions and billions of men die every year, who cares for special characters!

You have some other rumor source? Or do you mean amazing like how project red dragon saved money?

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Reposting this from another forum, I'd like to provoke a good debate on this:

Rough Riders are extremely underrated.

On average, just to give a few examples of why, a unit of 10 Rough Riders beats the following on a charge:

10 BA Assault Marines, 70% of the time 180~+ pts
10 Dark Eldar Incubi, 70% of the time 250~+ pts
10 Striking Scorpions, 55~% of the time 160+~ pts (probably considerably more than that)
1/3 of the time they can single handedly beat 25 Ork Boys without any support 180~ pts
10 Grey Hunters, 70% of the time -150~ points
10 Khorne Berserkers, 70% of the time 200~+ pts

(Calculated using 40k Combat Simulator)

How much is a unit of 10 Rough Riders? 110 points.

This does not factor the extra attack they have with the new Dex either, as the app hasn't been updated to consider that. You just need to make sure you don't throw them out in open ground or in a place where they'll get shot up and expect them to survive. They are not the sort of unit you throw at the enemy and expect to reap huge kill counts, they are a counter attack unit.

Back in 5th my friend ran these in reserve, but the time I got to his lines they'd come in and counter attack me, and always made their points back, even against deepstriking Space Wolves with counter attack and special weapons out the wazoo. I think the problem with them now is the game is so shooting oriented, are there any hth units getting close to an IG gunline that would warrant a dedicated counter attack unit?

 jae4x4 wrote:
you guys complain a lot... from what i have heard this book is going to be amazing... I don't get this "Most play groups don't allow forge world" business, most people i play against run triple riptide or wraithknight. If your playing 40k to be tournament competitive your in the wrong game, go play chess or poker. Everything in the new book seems good, so they got rid of some special characters, ITS THE IMPERIAL GUARD! where billions and billions of men die every year, who cares for special characters!

My wallet which can't stand the strain of spending lots of money to buy the " billions and billions of men" I need. I asked it and it would rather spend money on a special character that makes the Guardsmen I have more efficient.

 Sir Arun wrote:


The Hydra didnt have skyfire in the old codex. The GW FAQ adding it in basically broke the Hydra because it became waay too cheap with its combination of ignoring jink.

what? I would much rather the hydra have not gained skyfire at all, it would have been a much better unit. 75 points for 4 twin-linked AC shots was borderline overpowered in 5th, though not particularly impressive in modern Taudar nonsense. Gaining Skyfire just meant it was garbage against anything but fliers and skimmers, and generally just got blown up by them the turn they came in. Right now in the 5th edition codex it's a paperweight unit, so of course GW nerfs it?

 mattyrm wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

Just pretty low? So you do give some feths then?

If you don't care when models you bought, built and painted get binned, you are in a very strange minority. The vast majority of gamers would be rightly annoyed, there is absolutely nothing "entitled" or whiny about it, and I am not a big gamer or a GW hater, far from it, I find the endless complaints of some people on here to be trifling and childish, but feth me, you have to sit on the fence if you want to have any credibility, and if I spent a good 20 hours on some of my best vehicles, and they suddenly got binned, of course I am going to get irritated, to suggest you don't care at all is illogical.

I mean, I don't REALLY care because I don't play Guard and like I said, the SM (my only army) have been relatively unaffected by these shenanigans, but obviously I feel for other players. If they ditched my very well painted TFC or Predator from the codex and provided no explanations or acceptable alternatives I could play it is, of course I would be annoyed.

Its logical and fair to say that suddenly having items that you invest time and money become useless is annoying, and I don't see how you can square that circle by just saying "I don't care because I am rich/cool"

Even if you don't care because you are rich and cool and pay for other people to assemble and paint your models, surely you can understand the annoyance on the part of others?

I didn't say I don't give any feths. Just not many. Not having it in the main codex doesn't really effect much when you can just use the FW rules anyway. Find the profiles and write them down on cards or something. Either way I can feel for those that won't do that, and lost the ability to field their arty, but if they really invested that much time into it just plop it in a display case at their local GW or shop or something so at least people can appreciate their painting or conversion skills. Then when we get our DLC slates that inevitably add them back in they can dust off their models and play them again. Not like it's hard to get the rules online for slates anyway.

Really I just don't get end is nigh attitude that so many people have in this thread. With the amount of crying here you'd think some GW employes literally went into their backyard and strangled their dog to death in broad daylight in front of their kids or something,

 jae4x4 wrote:
you guys complain a lot... from what i have heard this book is going to be amazing... I don't get this "Most play groups don't allow forge world" business, most people i play against run triple riptide or wraithknight. If your playing 40k to be tournament competitive your in the wrong game, go play chess or poker. Everything in the new book seems good, so they got rid of some special characters, ITS THE IMPERIAL GUARD! where billions and billions of men die every year, who cares for special characters!

Yeah! I mean, who cares about a few special characters. It's like, millions of humans die on the front lines, you can just take any old commander whose special rules allow you to outflank a whole platoon, or send in wave after wave of conscripts, or the one guy who can literally appear directly behind another unit.

There are millions of those guys lying around, exactly. () The only problem is, we don't have the damn rules available to us anymore.

Jesus, , you would think a special character here is like any other codex. Imagine if they removed Pedro Kantor from Space Marines. You think some people wouldn't be a bit ticked off?

Rough riders just need the outflank special rule. Congratulations they are now viable.

 Stus67 wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

Just pretty low? So you do give some feths then?

If you don't care when models you bought, built and painted get binned, you are in a very strange minority. The vast majority of gamers would be rightly annoyed, there is absolutely nothing "entitled" or whiny about it, and I am not a big gamer or a GW hater, far from it, I find the endless complaints of some people on here to be trifling and childish, but feth me, you have to sit on the fence if you want to have any credibility, and if I spent a good 20 hours on some of my best vehicles, and they suddenly got binned, of course I am going to get irritated, to suggest you don't care at all is illogical.

I mean, I don't REALLY care because I don't play Guard and like I said, the SM (my only army) have been relatively unaffected by these shenanigans, but obviously I feel for other players. If they ditched my very well painted TFC or Predator from the codex and provided no explanations or acceptable alternatives I could play it is, of course I would be annoyed.

Its logical and fair to say that suddenly having items that you invest time and money become useless is annoying, and I don't see how you can square that circle by just saying "I don't care because I am rich/cool"

Even if you don't care because you are rich and cool and pay for other people to assemble and paint your models, surely you can understand the annoyance on the part of others?

I didn't say I don't give any feths. Just not many. Not having it in the main codex doesn't really effect much when you can just use the FW rules anyway. Find the profiles and write them down on cards or something. Either way I can feel for those that won't do that, and lost the ability to field their arty, but if they really invested that much time into it just plop it in a display case at their local GW or shop or something so at least people can appreciate their painting or conversion skills. Then when we get our DLC slates that inevitably add them back in they can dust off their models and play them again. Not like it's hard to get the rules online for slates anyway.

Really I just don't get end is nigh attitude that so many people have in this thread. With the amount of crying here you'd think some GW employes literally went into their backyard and strangled their dog to death in broad daylight in front of their kids or something,

You have to understand, i don't consider any of this doom and gloom, but it is damn dissapointing.

I spent untold hours painting and converting my army. I spent money i shouldn't have probably spent on my army because i considered it a labor of love. I customized my army based on characters in the Codex. I tried to minimize Forge world models because they often contained rules that are a little bit out there. The Hades breaching drill literally used to send up a large melta blast wherever it wanted to.

Lets say i wanted to use Marbo again, would i use the rules from 5th editon? Sure my opponents might just let me, but then where does it stop. Should i just be able to take whatever i want from any codex and stick it in my list? Should i be able to get the best of both codexes and stick them together?

Ive already talked to my group of friends, and the answer is no.

There is no good way to go about this. I could either stick to my 5th edition codex and maybe be ousted from pickup games, or i go 6th and basically shoo away half of what i liked about my army. It's a fething gakky situation. There is no true facts pointing to GW ever giving us the option to use these models at a later date. Why should it make me feel better that i might have to spend money later to get to use the models i was already using.

People have spent time and money on these armies, some of which are the most original and customized in all of 40k, and now GW have gone and removed half of our special characters and added nothing but a bunch of mostly useless vehicles and some arguably good warlord traits and tank commanders.

It's not doom and gloom, it just sucks big donkey

 TheSilo wrote:
Rough riders just need the outflank special rule. Congratulations they are now viable.

I dunno, given how fragile they are and that in 6th ed. you can't charge out of reserve means even with this advantage in placement they'll be shot up pretty easily with little effort especially from current top-meta armies like Tau since they can just use EWO to shoot the crap out of them when they arrive.

 Grimskul wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Rough riders just need the outflank special rule. Congratulations they are now viable.

I dunno, given how fragile they are and that in 6th ed. you can't charge out of reserve means even with this advantage in placement they'll be shot up pretty easily with little effort especially from current top-meta armies like Tau since they can just use EWO to shoot the crap out of them when they arrive.

You just described just about every Infantry/Cavalry/Biker unit in the game. [There are always exeptions]

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Rough riders just need the outflank special rule. Congratulations they are now viable.

I dunno, given how fragile they are and that in 6th ed. you can't charge out of reserve means even with this advantage in placement they'll be shot up pretty easily with little effort especially from current top-meta armies like Tau since they can just use EWO to shoot the crap out of them when they arrive.

You just described just about every Infantry/Cavalry/Biker unit in the game. [There are always exeptions]

Nurgle Bikers.

I do suppose you mentioned exceptions, but I feel obligated to point it out.

In any case, if you can find some LoS blocking terrain, Cavalry's ability to move 12" and charge helps a bit.

I really love how so many people are going on about how GW is just out to grab money. WHOA! Businesses are out to make money? Get outta town! It does suck when you've put a lot of effort into an army and now you'd need to switch things up but having these kinds of expectations are absurd. Its like asking companies that make video games to continue making ones that operate on old systems so everyone doesnt need to upgrade their pc's or consoles. I work in automotive retail and I hear this same argument everyday.
Me: You need new brakes.
Customer: But I just bought tires a month ago! Can't you do them for free?!
Me: No... that's not how companies stay open.
Seriously knock off the damn whining. If you don't want to buy the new stuff then don't! this is a hobby. People would cry a lot more if GW went belly up and there were no more updates at all. /endrant

You are right, things change and we have to adapt but for some this feels more like:

Me: You need new brakes.
Customer: But I just bought tires a month ago! Can't you do them for free?!
Me: No... that's not how companies stay open. BTW I just went ahead and slashed the back tires.

(and I agree with that feeling even if personally I'm not that concerned for my IG army)
M.

Any news if the Hydra has optional skyfire like Soulgrinders?
Also, do the Primaris Psykers have divination?

I'm hoping they bring back Solar Macharius.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:
Rough riders just need the outflank special rule. Congratulations they are now viable.

I dunno, given how fragile they are and that in 6th ed. you can't charge out of reserve means even with this advantage in placement they'll be shot up pretty easily with little effort especially from current top-meta armies like Tau since they can just use EWO to shoot the crap out of them when they arrive.

You just described just about every Infantry/Cavalry/Biker unit in the game. [There are always exeptions]

The big difference is that the vast majority of biker units that are relevant have actual ranged capability and survivability via jink/cover saves unlike rough riders. White Scar bikers in particular have S5 HoW hits on the charge and can rinse+repeat a near-continuous cycle of shooting and charging thanks to hit and run, unlike the Rough Riders who are effectively a one-shot wonder. Also as mentioned previously other biker units typically have at least T4-5 which requires a much more concentrated amount of firepower to get rid of a sizable unit. Eldar jetbikes are even faster which still at least have T4 and of course they're wonderful pseudo-rending-shuriken weaponry that is also twin-linked. In comparison, the rough riders are both outgunned in dakka and out-damaged in melee. Note that none of these require outflanking to be useful.

Even daemon calvary like seekers or bloodcrushers at least have a 5++ invuln. save which allows them to weather some sort of firepower.

 korghan wrote:
I really love how so many people are going on about how GW is just out to grab money. WHOA! Businesses are out to make money? Get outta town! It does suck when you've put a lot of effort into an army and now you'd need to switch things up but having these kinds of expectations are absurd. Its like asking companies that make video games to continue making ones that operate on old systems so everyone doesnt need to upgrade their pc's or consoles. I work in automotive retail and I hear this same argument everyday.
Me: You need new brakes.
Customer: But I just bought tires a month ago! Can't you do them for free?!
Me: No... that's not how companies stay open.
Seriously knock off the damn whining. If you don't want to buy the new stuff then don't! this is a hobby. People would cry a lot more if GW went belly up and there were no more updates at all. /endrant

Your example would make more sense if it was:
GW: You need new tires
Customer: But i just bought your new tires a month ago! Why can't i keep my damn tires?
GW: Other companies are using some of our tire designs, and we don't want them making any money on our designs.
Customer: But they are YOUR tires, i bought them from you. How are you going to make sure i can't use my old tires anyway?
GW: Well we have an agreement with the government that says that the new rules of the road say you can't use those tires anymore?
Customer: How are they going to stop me from using my old tires?
GW: Well i guess you can use them, as long as you don't want to take any major highways and use only bumpy back dirt roads. Have fun with that.

You see, it is a business practice, but this is dumb business practice. In what context is it smart to piss off your customer base? This is marketing 101.

Having spent a fair amount of money on metal figs to make a Tallarn army using Al'rahem and (a "counts-as") Marbo, I'm getting the distinct impression that I'm going to continue using my 5th Edition IG codex until the 7th Edition IG codex comes out...

I don't think you know what 'marketing' means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And to be fair, neither do GW, but hey ho.

 IrishWristwatch wrote:

Lets say i wanted to use Marbo again, would i use the rules from 5th editon? Sure my opponents might just let me, but then where does it stop. Should i just be able to take whatever i want from any codex and stick it in my list? Should i be able to get the best of both codexes and stick them together?

Yes; its a game. The only rules that really exist are those that you and your opponents agree on.

Also, whats stopping you from using counts as? All those artillery models can make perfectly fine demolishers or even wyverns. Its not a perfect solution, but it is definitely a solution.

It is not the job of businesses to make money. It is to make a product or provide service, and making money is a by-product. And when they practice poor ideas in order to wring more money out of the customers, they fail at the job. We should not excuse a corp's actions as "Oh well they have to make money", otherwise what is the point of standards?.

Cause hey, using rancid meat in your food product? Probably done to make money

Whoops, didn't realize you can't charge from reserves/outflank, my meta has been doing it wrong.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
It is not the job of businesses to make money. It is to make a product or provide service, and making money is a by-product. And when they practice poor ideas in order to wring more money out of the customers, they fail at the job. We should not excuse a corp's actions as "Oh well they have to make money", otherwise what is the point of standards?.

Cause hey, using rancid meat in your food product? Probably done to make money

You are kidding me right???????? not the job of businesses to make money?????

Necromunda Eschers just got new jobs as "street preachers". Good times.