IG/Astra Militarum Rumours for April (first post updated 12th April)

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**kir44n**

Zengu wrote:
Happygrunt wrote:
Zengu wrote:
The Leman Russ rules are the same as in old codex the only difference is that Demolisher at 170 pt. from natfka. Nothing new for the tank rules but if the Demo is the most princely one what does it say of the executioner? A giant price decrease?

Apparently 150 is the mean cost with the standard Leman Russ being 120.

I am seeing the new IG book being more mechanized than previous iterations. At least I will be running mech lists.

If this is true then the executioner my favorite russ will be some what of a steal compared to today.

I'm hoping that this rumor is true. I would assume it was made cheaper specifically to address the loss of Lumbering Behemoth. Seriously, side sponsons are never worth taking on the vanilla russ & demolisher because they lost that rule. Though Demolishers getting more EXPENSIVE at the same time seems peculilar...

**Sir Arun**

Peregrine wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
And the Hydra, as I said has lost a lot of rules, but my little bird tells me that only costs 70 points. "Neither interceptor, or ignore cover or nah"

Wow. So if you accept the codex price of enclosed crew compartment at 15 points as the value of open-topped vs. not, then the Hydra actually got more expensive while losing special rules. Holy GW's rule authors are stupid.

The Hydra didnt have skyfire in the old codex. The GW FAQ adding it in basically broke the Hydra because it became waay too cheap with its combination of ignoring jink.

However, it was still only Heavy 2. If I am not mistaken, the new Hydra is heavy 4? If not, then yes youre right they suck. Even if they have long range, just compare them with the Schpess Muhreen Stalker and you'll get an idea why Gee Dubs loves their mureenz as their special child.

**Las**

Honestly those Russ points go a long way toward mitigating the chimera increase.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the book. There seems to be a lot of new methods of play opening up for the army. I've always loved te idea of priests and they now seem super interesting to use. My only gripes are the loss of the one sw option in vets and the fact that ogryns didn't go down in price.

**kir44n**

Sir Arun wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
And the Hydra, as I said has lost a lot of rules, but my little bird tells me that only costs 70 points. "Neither interceptor, or ignore cover or nah"

Wow. So if you accept the codex price of enclosed crew compartment at 15 points as the value of open-topped vs. not, then the Hydra actually got more expensive while losing special rules. Holy GW's rule authors are stupid.

The Hydra didnt have skyfire in the old codex. The GW FAQ adding it in basically broke the Hydra because it became waay too cheap with its combination of ignoring jink.

However, it was still only Heavy 2. If I am not mistaken, the new Hydra is heavy 4?

Wait, you thought the Hydra became broken gaining skyfire w/o interceptor at 75 points? When a hydra is alway outclassed by a Quadgun?

**Puscifer**

Happygrunt wrote:
Zengu wrote:
The Leman Russ rules are the same as in old codex the only difference is that Demolisher at 170 pt. from natfka. Nothing new for the tank rules but if the Demo is the most princely one what does it say of the executioner? A giant price decrease?

Apparently 150 is the mean cost with the standard Leman Russ being 120.

I am seeing the new IG book being more mechanized than previous iterations. At least I will be running mech lists.

Holy Nutballs, so I can get 3 tanks in roughly 500 with the trimmings? That's a steal.

Omg, in 750 pt games, I could get a Tank Commander, two infantry in Chimera and a couple more LRBT.

This has become a lot more interesting to me.

Also... In the perspective 1850-2000 pt games, would you run a Baneblade?

**Vaktathi**

Sir Arun wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
And the Hydra, as I said has lost a lot of rules, but my little bird tells me that only costs 70 points. "Neither interceptor, or ignore cover or nah"

Wow. So if you accept the codex price of enclosed crew compartment at 15 points as the value of open-topped vs. not, then the Hydra actually got more expensive while losing special rules. Holy GW's rule authors are stupid.

The Hydra didnt have skyfire in the old codex. The GW FAQ adding it in basically broke the Hydra because it became waay too cheap with its combination of ignoring jink.

However, it was still only Heavy 2. If I am not mistaken, the new Hydra is heavy 4?

It had 2 Heavy 2 guns. I think you're only one that thought it was broken for that.

**mattyrm**

If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

**schadenfreude**

Insurgency Walker wrote:
schadenfreude wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Insurgency Walker wrote:
schadenfreude wrote:

*snip*

With a priest making power axe attacks 125% more deadly and guardsmen 237.5% more deadly we should stop the QQ about a 5 point increase in power weapons.

So ah....maybe they should have raised the cost for the priest?
That is like raising the cost of a spacemarine because you could take a chaplain.

Truth is whenever points increase people get cranky because most the time it comes across as arbitrary at best, or perceived as a tool to increase sales of a given item.

Was not that long ago people were crying foul over a perceived point increase for LRBT and the "new" WD IG teaser talked about the lowered point cost of chimera!

But then if you don't take the power weapons you are wasting the extra points.
What makes the priest deadly is when there are powered weapons involved. Other wise...not so much.

The priest actually improves regular guardsmen more than power weapons, and can really make 3 point conscripts deadly in cc. Plush a 2nd priest can give rerolls to armor saves taking a 1/3 chance to 5/9. The unit also gains fearless. They are a lot squishier than chaplains, but are almost 1/4 the price and give better buffs to their unit.

Yes, priests are looking good! Be nice if you could stick one on a horse.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mysterious Pants wrote:
Hey, you! Any word on tech-priests?

I've used them because they looked amazing, but they never seem to be worth their points. Do they get a point reduction? More options? Anything- maybe gun servitors cost less?

Once upon a time they were independent characters which rocked if you didn't want to field servitors with them.

Ok here are the stats on priests.

Cost=5 guardsmen. 3 attacks standard guard profile. 5++ invo I think Has access to power weapons.

Leadership. They have to pass a ld test to activate a war hymm. Commissars cost the same as a priest and if the priests squad is within 6" of a commissar leadership goes up to 9.

They have zealot giving their squad hatred and fearless and have 3 hymms.

Hymm#1: Shred for the entire squad assault phase only
Hymm#2: Reroll armor saves and invo saves for the entire squad assault phase only
Hymm#3 The priest and only the priest gains smash. A power mace then becomes S5 AP2 I3 A3, or S8 AP2 I1 A2 plus charge bonus

**Tomb King**

Italian translations so bare with me. These are from what appears to be the official codex that was posted in Italian a few pages ago.

Warlord traits:

1. Grand strategy (primary detachment only) I.E. D3 units get this special rule.

2. old grudges- during deployment, before you deploy the infiltrators and scouts, choose a codex warhammer 40k. The General and his unit have a special rule favored enemy against all enemy units chosen from the codex.

3. iron discipline- units from Codex: AM within 12 "of the general dont take morale when they suffer losses of 25% or more.

4. unrelenting determination- General and its units have the Unbreakable special rule.

5. booming voice- The General rule Voice of the special command. If you already possess it, then you can issue orders to units of the codex: AM that are within 18 "of him.

6. Master of the command- The General rule Voice of the special command. If it already has, then he can give an additional order each round.

Not sure if anyone did it already and it wasnt easy... lol a few typo's i am sure but the general knowledge is there... hope you enjoy.

**rothrich**

portugus wrote:Does fun to play mean having to buy venomthropes and huddling everything together? I play zombies and that can be fun but I would think nid players would want to build more than venomthropes or flying MC spam.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
rothrich wrote:
Orthon wrote:
Guys, it looks like this codex release is going to be worse than how Tyranids were treated. When I read what Peregrine said about the Hydra my mouth dropped.
I wanted to buy two of them, but I guess I can still make some Wyvern.

Also Ogryns are still complete garbage? Come on GW I want to buy your stuff! I am beginning to think they are completely incompetent because I was ready to spend a lot of money, but now I don't want to buy anything.

Tau got Riptides and Eldar got Wraithknights but it is all good guys because we get the Taurox and cheaper Sentinels? WTF?

We are going to be worse off then we were? We were already struggling. When was the last major tournament IG won without allies? 5th edition?

I have seen nids doing very well. Just because they are not a "tournament" army dose not mean that they are not fun to play or that they don't have some strong army lists. I am sure that the next time tau and eldar come around they will be nerfed to fit with everyone else. Auto take and spamable units like the riptide, wave serpent and, hell drake are not good for the game. A codex where no one unit stands out as the end all beat all chice is good for the game.
Tyranids old codex wasn't great and the new one mostly just made them worse. Terrible internal balance. There's a couple of powerful builds, but a couple of powerful builds does not make a good codex. There's so many units in the 'nid 'dex that are just blatantly obviously crap and several units that weren't powerful before and were nerfed anyway. Also, the removal of several units.

Guard are getting something similar, it's hard to judge internal balance at this point, but there definitely seems to be units getting a nerf that didn't need a nerf (I accept the Vendetta nerf was needed, the Chimera and Hydra nerfs look bad) and we are losing several units, more than 'nids lost.

portugus wrote:Does fun to play mean having to buy venomthropes and huddling everything together? I play zombies and that can be fun but I would think nid players would want to build more than venomthropes or flying MC spam.

I don't think that internal ballance as you put it is all that important. If a game is planned out like it supposed to be instead of random pick up games or the TAC tournament gak that some people seem to be interested in then you are left with a wide variety of units that can be used in say a game that takes place inside a space hulk, or in the center of a hive city. The battle for planet bowing ball where the whiner oops winner is the one who kill the most of the opposing players units are not fun games or games that are intended to be played by the game designers. People really hate the term "forging a narrative" but the more new releases that come out and though out the theme of the main rule book it becomes more and more obvious that it is really the only way to have a balanced game. I am really not trying to be a jerk here. It is just the way that GW wants there product to be. They really don't care at all for power gaming or tournaments in the GT style. The hydra for example sounds like a great unit to have if say you are playing a battle where a necron invasion force is flying in in there night scythes in an attempt to take over a strategic world held by humanity. It however sounds like a terrible unit to be in a battle where a transport ship adrift in the warp is being over run by the deamons which inhabit the warp. See what I mean?

**Stus67**

mattyrm wrote:
If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

**Ravenous D**

mattyrm wrote:
If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

I abandoned my DKOK as steel legion army the second I heard this was a year away. My medusas would have been made useless, and my 1850 army suddenly jumped to 2150. I had a gut feeling that this codex could only go 2 directions, and neither was up, and as it looks they got very little for what is being taken away. It looks like they are stripping the guardsmen ability to deal with 2+ saves and reducing their durability. That codex was still good just needed more options and minor tweaks, what it seems to have gotten was GWs sledgehammer that is an edition behind in complaints.

It honestly looks like the devs and their new play testers have zero fething clue on how do their jobs, well other then take away options from the more expensive book and release them for $20 dataslates.

**rothrich**

Stus67 wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

Best post ever give this guy a cookie! if it aint fun don't play right primo?!

**Smashotron**

schadenfreude wrote:

Ok here are the stats on priests.

Cost=5 guardsmen. 3 attacks standard guard profile. 5++ invo I think Has access to power weapons.

Leadership. They have to pass a ld test to activate a war hymm. Commissars cost the same as a priest and if the priests squad is within 6" of a commissar leadership goes up to 9.

They have zealot giving their squad hatred and fearless and have 3 hymms.

Hymm#1: Shred for the entire squad assault phase only
Hymm#2: Reroll armor saves and invo saves for the entire squad assault phase only
Hymm#3 The priest and only the priest gains smash. A power mace then becomes S5 AP2 I3 A3, or S8 AP2 I1 A2 plus charge bonus

That matches with the Priests out of the Sisters Codex so that is great to hear if it is accurate! Good to know Commissars got cheaper too, but the increase to power weapon costs put off any positives gained.

**TheKbob**

rothrich wrote:

...the whiner oops winner is the one who kill the most of the opposing players units are not fun games or games that are intended to be played by the game designers....

...The hydra for example sounds like a great unit to have if say you are playing a battle where a necron invasion force is flying in in there night scythes ...

See what I mean?

Well you shot yourself in the foot with the first line. Luckily your idea of fun is not everyone elses idea of fun, we're all different. And you imply GW is actively designing their game instead of maintaining a library of IP and selling stuff at the highest cost the market will bear.

What we are implying is the hydra is actually terrible for the scenario you listed. It has no interceptor. It would be very easy for those night scythes to either shake, stun, or destroy the hydras before they get a single chance to retalliate.

So no, we don't see what you mean. We know what you are saying, we aren't slow. However, a better designed and balanced game is better for all forms of play, competitive or not. The reason why "forge the narrative" is used in a sarcastic manner is that it's an active excuse being used by GW not to troubleshoot their rules. And then charge a premium over any other company.

**Mr.Omega**

Peregrine wrote:
Mr.Omega wrote:
Grrr why didn't GW turn an AA vehicle into a dull, auto-take spammable anti-ground unit! How stupid!

1) Mandatory skyfire is stupid fluff-wise. The Hydra's guns are capable of pivoting down to engage ground targets, and the fluff talks about how terrifyingly effective it is against light ground targets when there are no aircraft around to draw its attention. But yet somehow it gets out-shot by orks against ground targets?

Fluff is not always =/= gameplay, and theme is often the most direct influence on it.

2) The Hydra is a better dedicated AA tank right now and nobody is taking it because it can only hit aircraft. The new rules make it considerably worse by making it open-topped and taking away the jink save counter. How exactly is this supposed to make it an appealing choice?

Except you're completely wrong, because it can hit FMC's, Flyers and Skimmers at full BS. Re-read the rules on skyfire.

Its still reasonable. Against AV12 skimmers and flyers, you're getting 1 hull point off a turn average before jink, with a 50%~ chance for a penetrate if my Maths is correct.

But that ignores the biggest problem with the Hydra: without interceptor it has to wait until the flyer (and the opponent's ground units) gets the first shot to attempt to fire back. Hydras have a habit of dying before they get to shoot any flyers, and with mandatory skyfire they can't even put some hits on ground targets while they wait and/or before they die.

With AV12, the ease of being able to target flyers all over the board, and the resultant ability to comfortably hide in 25% LOS blocking cover, potentially with a cheap as chips camo net, you're already doing fine.

2-3 Hydras is not going to be a walk in the park to kill for flyers, the Storm Raven, the Vendetta and the Night Scythe are the only flyers you're likely to see that pose any chance of killing just one upon coming in, and even then that's a 70 point unit and an entire turn free from their firepower, as compared to losing a 170 point Vendetta, a staple of your anti-MC and AT firepower as well.

Plus, your whole point here becomes moot just by putting the Hydras in reserve, taking an Astropath and having them come in turn 2 on a 2+, able to fire immediately at flyers that have just appeared.

Against infantry/heavy infantry you shouldn't exactly be struggling, especially since our LRBT's are cheaper now. And before you even chant the words "FOC" allow me to remind you that with the new tank commanders/Pask you can have 6 Leman Russes in your HQ section.

As a result of that, you're either forcing a jink on the latter that makes its firepower naff for a turn, or having an opportunity to potentially destroy it.

Except the current Hydra ignores jink saves. This is a major nerf to the new Hydra.

The previous Hydra was written for 5th, and quite rightly GW has realised that giving the new Hydra ignores jink is a tad over the line. There is a fallacy here and with everyone else in this thread that the previous Codex's good units are always done right - the only exception is the Vendetta because of how blatant that it is, and still people have whined in here about it being nerfed.

That makes it about as effective as an Autocannon HWS at 24'' greater range against Skimmers

Err, what? TL BS 1 is approximately BS 2, so 1.333 hits against a skimmer from the Hydra. The HWS gives an average of 3 hits against a skimmer. Since when is "less than half the damage" enough to qualify as "about as effective"?

Oh, really now? You couldn't go re-read the description of one rule, so assured in your wisdom you were?

Re-read the Skyfire rule. Full BS is also granted against skimmers.

as it isn't invalidated by your opponent's quality AA choices

Any AA choice that can invalidate a Vendetta is going to invalidate Hydras just as well.

[citation needed]

Uh, no? This is a such a sweeping statement, the only AA choice I can think of that even comes close to potentially invalidating Hydras is Wave Serpents, and frankly, Hydras are one of the best new counters to them, so that pretty much cancels out.

The big three flyers I outlined earlier are probably going to at most, kill one Hydra a turn.

Just re-read that statement right there.

The Vendetta loses most of its special defense against dedicated AA, but it still has the same AV 12 and doesn't get slaughtered by non-AA units while it waits for the AA battle.

The Hydra can stay out of range comfortably in cover with 72'' range, is far more expendable and doesn't form a considerable staple of a list's AT and Anti-MC as well. Plus, you're getting 2 Hydras for the price of 1 Vendetta and 30 spare points.

I'm not even suggesting the Vendetta shouldn't be taken- because I don't think that's the case. I think it would work as a fine companion to a squadron of Hydras, and if so you say, the Hydras take heavy casualties, it is a good back up interceptor.

Plus, the Hydras mean that the Vendetta's other key useful strength, anti-MC and AT, is more likely to be exploited when it arrives.

**DarkTraveler777**

Stus67 wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

I only play IG, and the amount of feths I give are pretty low. I've already pre-ordered the new codex, and instead of coming here to bitch and moan I'll just adapt to the new rules, because at the end of the day we're still just a bunch of jackasses pushing plastic across a table.

No bigger jackasses exist than those who dismiss other jackasses' loss of time and money when models are removed from a codex. If you don't care about the removed units you either didn't own them, or you have more money than sense. Either way, trying to out cool those who are upset by their removal is rather childish.

Me? I'm gonna go push my voided artillery around the table making "vrooooooom!" noises as a final eulogy to my culled toys.

Which is its own kind of childishness, but a more fun kind than indulging in hipster-schadenfreude.

**Perfect Organism**

Anyone got any idea what the Militarum Vendorum might be?

**Ravenous D**

Puscifer wrote:
Happygrunt wrote:
Zengu wrote:
The Leman Russ rules are the same as in old codex the only difference is that Demolisher at 170 pt. from natfka. Nothing new for the tank rules but if the Demo is the most princely one what does it say of the executioner? A giant price decrease?

Apparently 150 is the mean cost with the standard Leman Russ being 120.

I am seeing the new IG book being more mechanized than previous iterations. At least I will be running mech lists.

Holy Nutballs, so I can get 3 tanks in roughly 500 with the trimmings? That's a steal.

Omg, in 750 pt games, I could get a Tank Commander, two infantry in Chimera and a couple more LRBT.

This has become a lot more interesting to me.

Also... In the perspective 1850-2000 pt games, would you run a Baneblade?

They probably start at 120 for the exterminator. Then add 30 to 40pts for a battle cannon.

**plastictrees**

Perfect Organism wrote:
Anyone got any idea what the Militarum Vendorum might be?

It's where the Astra Militarum get their Chipus Saltus et Vinegarum and their Dieta Cokus.

**easysauce**

mattyrm wrote:
If I played IG I would be super pissed, cutting all the big arty units is a massive no-no, what about all the people who invsted countless hours into their collections, do they not even consider them when they update gak? At least nothing in my SM collection became suddenly unusable with 6th....

Imagine if they got rid of Predators and Whirlwinds with 6th, its the same thing as not including some of Guards popular vehicles.

I really don't want to despise the dumb mother fethers that run the company, but they are practically making it impossible for me not to.

And no Catachans, just so people will pay more for the inevitable dataslate?

feth that... I would retire Harker and Guardsman Marbo to the big bits bin in the sky.

they have not been gotten rid of, the rules still exist in FW, and they absolutely will be making a DLC data slate for artillary.

that being said, I approve of data slates giving new rules and acting as a way to give new rules inbetween codexes... but WTF, should NOT be taking old rules and putting them into separate purchases without adding some really new stuff to it at least.

**Inquisitor Jex**

plastictrees wrote:
Perfect Organism wrote:
Anyone got any idea what the Militarum Vendorum might be?

It's where the Astra Militarum get their Chipus Saltus et Vinegarum and their Dieta Cokus.

Brilliantus!

**Sir Arun**

I'm psyched about the Leman Russ Punisher revamp.

The idea of making it my HQ tank and a commander who makes all 32 of those shots BS4 ...and for the first time ever, rending, means it will mow down anything and everything.

**Mr.Omega**

Sir Arun wrote:
I'm psyched about the Leman Russ Punisher revamp.

The idea of making it my HQ tank and a commander who makes all 32 of those shots BS4 ...and for the first time ever, rending, means it will mow down anything and everything.

The rending part of those shots alone, without considering preferred enemy (the complex calculations aren't possible on the two Mathhammer apps I use, Mathhammer 40k and Battlescribe, because the former doesn't let you put that many dice into the machine lol and the latter can't factor rolls of a 1) causes 3.5 AP2 wounds on everything and 2.37 unsaved wounds on a Riptide. (the latter part here not factoring non AP2 wounds)

**PuddlePirate**

Any worrd on a possible point reduction to the Russ tanks?

**Mr.Omega**

PuddlePirate wrote:
Any worrd on a possible point reduction to the Russ tanks?

An anonymous source on Faeit is saying no change except for a price increase on the Demolisher, the Spanish dude who's given many leaks recently has said a price range of 120-170 points.

It remains to be seen, really.

**Smitty**

When I rolled the Pask Punisher shots (punisher cannon alone), I got around 5-6 rending shots against a land raider, and had 4 glancing hits. With some lucky rolling, the PP can cut a land raider in half.

**Sir Arun**

of course the downside being, it is only 24". but that way it will be balanced although I doubt anyone will take the punisher without pask.

now if only it could fire overwatch...

**BunkerBob**

Pask Punisher - HBS, stubber, Punisher Cannon, Heavy Bolter hull sponson -

9 HBS shots, 20 Punisher shots, 3 Stubber shots - BS4, Shred

Yes please I will take those 32 shots at BS4! My Pask Punisher just got terrifying! Even more so than before, but hey who doesn't love even more Pask?

**Uriels_Flame**

3 punishers, 3 vendettas, 3 chimeras all useful and in the 'I already own this' group.

Outstanding. I'll just throw an antennae on one and call it Pask.