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What array of forces from each faction do you guys think it would take to conquer our Earth in its current state?

Assume a united populace and that we arent orbitally nuked to ash.

Frankly, not a whole lot of anything. As badass as some people think we are, Earth would be more or less a tiny, inconsequential speed bump.

I'm always puzzled by people who claim that we would give them a good fight. The Imperium conquers planets much more powerful than present-day earth on a regular basis.

A Farseer and time to hatch an elaborate plot.

Or just a genestealer.

A Herald might also solo it, but most other factions would probably take a company.

A tactical squad.

An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

I now have a mental image of 'our' humans fighting guard, with the guard being the elites and us being the side who simply drowns the enemy in corpses

Seriously though, our super-light stubbers will probably not do too much against most factions...

One Mek-Boy and a handful of grots.

As capable as a single squad of tactical marines is, or a mekboy, or any small group from the 41st millenium is, you are still going to need a much larger force to properly conquer and occupy the earth ( or any planet).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

I thought lasguns were the equivalent to modern day small arms fire? At least strength wise. The area that lasguns excel over what we have now is their reliability, logistic advantages, and lack of recoil.

A Mek-Boy and a handful of grots brings its own army with them. Just give them a year in an area where humans don't normally go, like Detroit.

GorillaWarfare wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

I thought lasguns were the equivalent to modern day small arms fire? At least strength wise. The area that lasguns excel over what we have now is their reliability, logistic advantages, and lack of recoil.

They are equal function wise. For strength, the lasgun is equal to a .50cal HMG (IIRC).

A necron lord with mindshackle scarabs... pretty much becoming the mechanized version of the yerks from animorphs... but we have no Andalite morphing technology to help us.

Depending on what fate any of the various factios have in stall for us, noting that would make any of the races raise an eyebrow.

GorillaWarfare wrote:
As capable as a single squad of tactical marines is, or a mekboy, or any small group from the 41st millenium is, you are still going to need a much larger force to properly conquer and occupy the earth ( or any planet).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

I thought lasguns were the equivalent to modern day small arms fire? At least strength wise. The area that lasguns excel over what we have now is their reliability, logistic advantages, and lack of recoil.

Setting wise they are comparable to AK47 (cheap to make, reliable, can be found anywhere).
Compared to our weapons they are much superior, boasting superior magazine size, power (en par with a .50 round), and logistics.

Depends on if they come at us in an overwhelming attack from the get go and how much damage they do to our will to fight in the first stages. If they send a squad of SM into New York and let us nuke them to death then we would stand a chance, not great, but a chance. If they throw genestealers or an entire IG battle group at us from the get go then the best we could possible do is a long drawn out gorilla engagement and we would probably cease being at the nation levels.

IIRC, arn't the first three chaos gods meant to be born about now?

 Ratius wrote:
What array of forces from each faction do you guys think it would take to conquer our Earth in its current state?

Assume a united populace and that we arent orbitally nuked to ash.

Honestly, 40k translates very poorly to reality. In real life, the entirety of the Adeptus Astartes could land on earth and they'd be obliterated in very short order as modern military forces possess capabilities that 40k armies can only dream of (i.e. accurately hitting multiple moving targets at 2km+ from a tank rolling around at 60km/h with 95%+ accuracy for instance, air superiority fighters able to engage targets hundreds of miles away, etc)

Also, according to the only hard numbers GW has ever published, the common RPG-7 and many WW2 anti-tank guns are capable of penetrating the frontal armor on Land Raiders.

40k is a High Fantasy universe set in space, with knights of yore and dragons superficially replaced with Space Marines and Hive Tyrants, with some WW1/WW2 tech sprinkled in. Comparing it to the real world just doesn't work very well, particularly as everything within the 40k universe seems to be able to fight without needing to care about logistics except for the Imperial Guard.

 Elgrun wrote:
IIRC, arn't the first three chaos gods meant to be born about now?

IIRC, all of the chaos gods were always around. (except for Slaanesh, who was "born" during the fall of the Eldar).

However, they "awakened" at certain times in human history. Khorne woke up during Genghis Khan's campaigns (or was it the crusades? Can't remember).

Nurgle supposedly woke up during the black death.

Forgot when Tzeetch gained sentience. Maybe Machiavelli did it, idk.

Guerrilla warfare always gives an intelligent underdog a chance.

Remove plot armor, and I could EASILY see a SM chapter attack the Earth and get destroyed. The United States has over 2 million Military personal if it activates its full reserves.

Compare 1000 marines to 2,000,000. That's 2000 military to every 1 marine. And we know how that would end, with dead Marines. Sure, we'd take some bad casualties. We'd also nuke any area with a significant amount of Marines in it. A Land Raider would get so many missiles sent into it that it would cease to exist.

Of course, we can't expect the Marines to land, line up, and charge at us. But every Thunderhawk they have could be lit up and destroyed. Drop Pod strikes would hurt like a b*tch, until that first 5 minutes end and we say "yeah, let's destroy that area now". Now, when every other country chips in... Ouch.

Literally the only thing Marines have is Space. Yeah, that part is important, and they could exterminatus the heck out of Earth. But conquer this planet? Ten chapters wouldn't stand a chance. I love 40k, but the numbers are WAY off. IG would stand a chance, but Marines, never.

Depends on the faction. But here's the problem: There's a big difference between coquering a planet and killing power. A Space Marine Chapter has a hell of a lot more power than 100,000 Guardsmen, but would fare far worse at subduing earth. Even 100,000 Guardsmen would be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. (And a bullet to the face kills you just as well from an Assault Rifle as a Lascannon.) Our weapons and tanks might be somewhat inferior, but it would take a force numbering in the hundreds of millions to succesfully conquer earth.
As for Space Marines managing it: The problem is, nukes. (And similarly huge weapons.) We'd take mass collateral damage, but simply nuking their force would kill most of them. Earth has more nukes than most chapters have members. (Also, we could eventually steal their tech. And unlike them, we could improve on it without being killed by our superiors. If the war lasted too long, we'd eventually outgun them too.)

 jifel wrote:
Remove plot armor, and I could EASILY see a SM chapter attack the Earth and get destroyed. The United States has over 2 million Military personal if it activates its full reserves.

Compare 1000 marines to 2,000,000. That's 2000 military to every 1 marine. And we know how that would end, with dead Marines. Sure, we'd take some bad casualties. We'd also nuke any area with a significant amount of Marines in it. A Land Raider would get so many missiles sent into it that it would cease to exist.

Going by GW's own stats, the ubiquitous RPG-7 can penetrate a Land Raider

Of course, we can't expect the Marines to land, line up, and charge at us.

Except that's exactly what they seem to do in most 40k tales

But every Thunderhawk they have could be lit up and destroyed.

Indeed, and at much greater ranges than the thunderhawk could respond to.

Drop Pod strikes would hurt like a b*tch, until that first 5 minutes end and we say "yeah, let's destroy that area now". Now, when every other country chips in... Ouch.

Yeah, accurate rapid-fire artillery and rader-guided counter-battery fire would see most landing zones turned to cemeteries in minutes if within 25/30 miles of decent NATO/Russian/equivalent artillery batteries.

But conquer this planet? Ten chapters wouldn't stand a chance. I love 40k, but the numbers are WAY off. IG would stand a chance, but Marines, never.

even all 1000 chapters probably wouldn't stand much of a chance in a conflict that didn't include starships, the SM's break down very quickly once looked at realistically. One million SM's, split up between vehicle crews, pilots, command staff, etc you'd probably be looking at 4-7 hundred thousand and they just can't hold that much ground versus the entire planet.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Depends on the faction. But here's the problem: There's a big difference between coquering a planet and killing power. A Space Marine Chapter has a hell of a lot more power than 100,000 Guardsmen

Only by dint of it's starships really, otherwise 100,000 guardsmen would paste 1000 Space Marines in terms of raw firepower.

Our weapons and tanks might be somewhat inferior, but it would take a force numbering in the hundreds of millions to succesfully conquer earth.

Our tanks and weapons relative to 40k weapons would actually be drastically superior if going by GW's published stats regarding armor, weapon capabilities, speed, and range.

 jifel wrote:
Remove plot armor, and I could EASILY see a SM chapter attack the Earth and get destroyed. The United States has over 2 million Military personal if it activates its full reserves.

Compare 1000 marines to 2,000,000. That's 2000 military to every 1 marine. And we know how that would end, with dead Marines. Sure, we'd take some bad casualties. We'd also nuke any area with a significant amount of Marines in it. A Land Raider would get so many missiles sent into it that it would cease to exist.

Of course, we can't expect the Marines to land, line up, and charge at us. But every Thunderhawk they have could be lit up and destroyed. Drop Pod strikes would hurt like a b*tch, until that first 5 minutes end and we say "yeah, let's destroy that area now". Now, when every other country chips in... Ouch.

Literally the only thing Marines have is Space. Yeah, that part is important, and they could exterminatus the heck out of Earth. But conquer this planet? Ten chapters wouldn't stand a chance. I love 40k, but the numbers are WAY off. IG would stand a chance, but Marines, never.

This, ultimately. Though Imperial Guard with Space Marine support would be a force to be reckoned with

Funny enough if the IoM attacked earth with a SM chapter I am pretty sure we would destroy ourselves fighting over the tech left behind after we kill them.

 ansacs wrote:
Funny enough if the IoM attacked earth with a SM chapter I am pretty sure we would destroy ourselves fighting over the tech left behind after we kill them.

What, the magical ability to make heavily armoured fighting vehicles that float? :p

No, we will fight the bloodiest war for the greatest technology the warriors of the adeptus astartes possess: Plot Armor.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

How powerful is a 41st Millenium black powder musket?

Can a 41st Millenium black power musket destroy a modern Main Battle Tank?

I only ask because in 1st & 2nd edition when Muskets were in the general wargear list they had the same Strength as Lasguns and Autoguns. More recently Inquisitor gave them a damage of 3d3 vs 2d6 for Lasguns and 2d6+2 for Autoguns.

40k is and always has been a post-Apocalyptic setting, the old maxim "if World War 3 is fought with nukes, World War 4 will be fought with bows and arrows" really does apply. Muskets and bows and clubs were listed in 1st & 2nd edition and Inquisitor (and probably Dark Heresy et al) because average Imperial tech is NOT all that advanced, if muskets and bows can be a threat to Imperial troops modern weapons sure as hell can.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

After we just start dropping dust bombs and salting rain clouds over the battlezone, the lasgun becomes completely useless (never mind the let's all line up and fight IG tactic means one missile that the IG has 0 defense against ends them without them ever firing a single round). The Leman Russ is a mediocre tank. It might have a reasonable gun, but it's slow, not particularly mobile, poor armor, and has a very tall and visible silhouette, etc. A modern tank runs rings around it without getting into anything flashy such as the M1A1's fire with pinpoint accuracy while doing ~30kph up and down hills (i.e. over unstable terrain) from 2 miles away.

As a general note, the M1A1 vs Leman Russ:

Leman Russ Hull Armor: 180mm
M1A1: 350/700 (350 vs certain rounds, 700 vs others)

Leman Russ shell size: 120mm
M1A1: 120mm

Leman Russ height: ~16ft
M1A1: 8ft

Leman Russ speed: 35kph
M1A1 speed: 67kph

Go to ~38minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrN66eGAfuQ

So it's much weaker armor, much slower, and a much larger target. Meaning it pretty much looses every time.

It's all hyperbole behind a lot of the Imperial stuff that comes standard issue. Modern weapons trump a lot of 40k equipment, including the modern battle rifle in all areas save the fact a lasgun can recharge. 40k is the 'bigger is better' mentality that generally fails in reality.

 Gashrog wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

How powerful is a 41st Millenium black powder musket?

Can a 41st Millenium black power musket destroy a modern Main Battle Tank?

I only ask because in 1st & 2nd edition when Muskets were in the general wargear list they had the same Strength as Lasguns and Autoguns. More recently Inquisitor gave them a damage of 3d3 vs 2d6 for Lasguns and 2d6+2 for Autoguns.

40k is and always has been a post-Apocalyptic setting, the old maxim "if World War 3 is fought with nukes, World War 4 will be fought with bows and arrows" really does apply. Muskets and bows and clubs were listed in 1st & 2nd edition and Inquisitor (and probably Dark Heresy et al) because average Imperial tech is NOT all that advanced, if muskets and bows can be a threat to Imperial troops modern weapons sure as hell can.

Well, you have some issues here with the different game systems.

A blackpowder musket, or a bow and arrow, are definitely present in DH, because you might visit a Feral World, but these weapons are hardly a threat to anyone in any kind of modern armor, even flak. These weapons have, for their game systems, the "Primitive" quality, which indicates that any armor that lacks the same quality receives double its Armor Points against it. Obviously, if you are not wearing a helmet and take a musket or an arrow to the dome, you're fethed, but otherwise the average Guardsman has little to fear from a bow-wielding tribal.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
An Imperial Guard battle group. They maybe flashlights to space marines but to us Lasguns are far more powerful than any infantry standard issue small arm we have. A Leman Russ battle tank would make mincemeat out of any earth tank. Baneblades could roll over entire tank armies without stopping. Basilisks would destroy any fortifications we have. Vendettas would blow out helicopters out of the sky with so much ease. Flak armor would be all but invulnerable to our assault rifle rounds.

How powerful is a 41st Millenium black powder musket?

Can a 41st Millenium black power musket destroy a modern Main Battle Tank?

I only ask because in 1st & 2nd edition when Muskets were in the general wargear list they had the same Strength as Lasguns and Autoguns. More recently Inquisitor gave them a damage of 3d3 vs 2d6 for Lasguns and 2d6+2 for Autoguns.

40k is and always has been a post-Apocalyptic setting, the old maxim "if World War 3 is fought with nukes, World War 4 will be fought with bows and arrows" really does apply. Muskets and bows and clubs were listed in 1st & 2nd edition and Inquisitor (and probably Dark Heresy et al) because average Imperial tech is NOT all that advanced, if muskets and bows can be a threat to Imperial troops modern weapons sure as hell can.

Well, you have some issues here with the different game systems.

A blackpowder musket, or a bow and arrow, are definitely present in DH, because you might visit a Feral World, but these weapons are hardly a threat to anyone in any kind of modern armor, even flak. These weapons have, for their game systems, the "Primitive" quality, which indicates that any armor that lacks the same quality receives double its Armor Points against it. Obviously, if you are not wearing a helmet and take a musket or an arrow to the dome, you're fethed, but otherwise the average Guardsman has little to fear from a bow-wielding tribal.

Actually a bow is pretty impressive against even modern armor. It all depends on range, head type, and 'pull'.

Kevlar, as the 'modern' anti balistic armor does well against a 9mm round, but poor against a knife. Vs a non broadhead arrow, it is almost useless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IM7Bz2vXtY