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Since you only have the option of taking imperial knights or the baneblade/shadowsword, I dont see why guard players would take an imperial knight. I really really want one though, but for only a hundred or two more points I can get either a Strength D weapon at 120" or a str 9 ap2 apoc blast. And both of these get 14/13/12 armor with 9 hp, while the imperial knight has 13/12/12 with 6hp.

Am I missing something? Please tell me I am, I really want to get an imperial knight but cant justify it as a guard player.

edit:
Here is my standard list without super heavies:
HQ:
CCS, MoO- 80pts

Elites:
Guardsman Marbo- 65pts

Troops:
Veteran Squad, 3x Meltagun, demolitions (1 demo charge, 10x meltabombs)- 130pts
Veteran Squad, 3x Meltagun, demolitions (1 demo charge, 10x meltabombs)- 130pts
Infantry Platoon: PCS, 2x Infantry Squad- 130pts

Fast Attack:
Vendetta Gunship-130pts
Vendetta Gunship-130pts

Heavy Support
3x Basilisks- 375pts
Manticore- 160pts
2x LR Demolisher, Lascannon, MM sponson- 420pts

ADL + Quad Gun- 100pts


What I would do is replace the two LR demolishers to free up 420pts and use that to get the super heavy.

A BIG THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!

Actually, the Imperial Knight doesn't take up a LoW slot; it has a slot dedicated to it.

So you may take a Knight AND a Baneblade in the same army. It would be pricy though; that's about 800 points in SHV, iirc.

Looking at the codex, the allied detachment box is where the Lords of War box would be, thats why I thought you can only pick one or the other, am I incorrect?

Anyway, if an IG player could only take one, why would they chose the imperial knight?

 Ryan_A wrote:
Looking at the codex, the allied detachment box is where the Lords of War box would be, thats why I thought you can only pick one or the other, am I incorrect?

Anyway, if an IG player could only take one, why would they chose the imperial knight?

The LOW slot is a separate FOC detachment, like the Fortification detachment, that can be filled by any eligible LOW choice. The Imperial Knight is a special detachment that consists of 1-3 Imperial Knights. The IK detachment can be taken as a primary detachment or as an allied detachment. You can legally have both a LOW and an IK in your IG army.

In terms of either/or though, the IK offers a fast, strength D assault option that the other vehicles don't. 4 S attacks plus d3 stomps is nothing to sneeze at.

PanzerLeader wrote:

The LOW slot is a separate FOC detachment, like the Fortification detachment, that can be filled by any eligible LOW choice. The Imperial Knight is a special detachment that consists of 1-3 Imperial Knights. The IK detachment can be taken as a primary detachment or as an allied detachment. You can legally have both a LOW and an IK in your IG army.

In terms of either/or though, the IK offers a fast, strength D assault option that the other vehicles don't. 4 S attacks plus d3 stomps is nothing to sneeze at.

Oh, ok, so correct if I am wrong, but I could take 1 fortification, 1 ally, 1 Lord of War, and 1-3 imperial knights?

Do you think my list would benefit more from an imperial knight or the shadowsword?

Shadowsword, since D is OP.

Here are my options:
The shadowsword would cost 555 in order to get BS4, and I would have 120" range S"D" Ap2 large blast and 2 twin-linked heavy bolters with 14/13/12 HP9
The Imperial Knight would cost 370 and I would have 36" range S9 AP1 large blast melta as well as S"D" close combat attacks and a heavy stubber with 13/12/12 HP6 with a 4++ save to one of the facings.

One costs 185pts more and gets a 120" S"D" weapon with better armor and more hull points, while the other is cheap and gets a large blast melta as well as S"D" close combat attacks.

So they both get strength "D"

So I am still having trouble deciding.

I think the Super heavy tank is more vulnerable to deep striking Melta units because it doesn't have a shield.

The knight also serves a counter assault role which could be more useful to your army as a whole than "just" another big gun.

 minigun762 wrote:
I think the Super heavy tank is more vulnerable to deep striking Melta units because it doesn't have a shield.

The knight also serves a counter assault role which could be more useful to your army as a whole than "just" another big gun.

Good point, my army is very vulnerable to deep striking as it is with only a few guardsman as bubblewrap. Im just having trouble deciding...

Ranged D is much better than melee D, though.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Ranged D is much better than melee D, though.

But one would hope that the unit that is 50% more expensive would be better.
But when you could take both a Knight and a Vendetta and still be cheaper, that's a tough call.

If you're suuuuuper worried about deep strikers, knock a basilisk off and take a 5 man GK Strike Squad with a basic inquisitor and use Warp Quake to keep deep strikers away from your baneblade/shadowsword. Anyone that lands within 12" of them while that psychic power is activated will mishap... If you combine a layer of guardsmen, a layer of GKs, and then the tank it would be pretty tough to get at it with melta.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:Ranged D is much better than melee D, though.

I know, but 555 is a lot of points, and the knight gets 3 Str D attacks in close combat. Spending so many points, its tempting to get two nights instead (740), I could charge whatever I need dead with both knights and it would surely die while at least one of them would survive.

minigun762 wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Ranged D is much better than melee D, though.

But one would hope that the unit that is 50% more expensive would be better.
But when you could take both a Knight and a Vendetta and still be cheaper, that's a tough call.

That is exactly what I am thinking... 120" str D is good, but so is 3 str D in melee, and if I am spending 500+ points, getting another knight would almost seem a no-brainer.

rabidguineapig wrote:If you're suuuuuper worried about deep strikers, knock a basilisk off and take a 5 man GK Strike Squad with a basic inquisitor and use Warp Quake to keep deep strikers away from your baneblade/shadowsword. Anyone that lands within 12" of them while that psychic power is activated will mishap... If you combine a layer of guardsmen, a layer of GKs, and then the tank it would be pretty tough to get at it with melta.

At that point I am altering my army around the tank too much.


Ugh!! My heart is telling me go with the titan, but my mind is saying go with the tank!

Rule of cool.
Knight wins.

-Matt

Knight is a better TAC choice in my opinion.
Less of a point drain and doesn't require as much support.

Rule of cool.
Shadowsword wins.

Knight Titans would be cooler, but these aren't Knight Titans.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Rule of cool.
Shadowsword wins.

Knight Titans would be cooler, but these aren't Knight Titans.

Lol, I'll make sure to get the box that says "titans" on it.

There is a great reason to take Knights over a baneblade. They're giant walking mechs with S: D chainswords.

edited to get rid of the stupid laughing Ork head.

Due to the super heavy walker, the Knight moves 12''

Due to super heavy, it will kill whatever killed it when it dies in explosion.

Due to destroyer, it will kill most foes in combat.

The Knight has a destrutive potential possiblity greater than a warhound titan, and defenitly better than a warhound titan without Destroyer weapons. (The warhound ONLY shoots, but the Knight can be in combat - this is the real benefit). BUT the knight is prices for half the points. It is also weaker, but this is a benefit. Explained: Super heavy vehicles was taken in apocalypse to die. A known tactic is to run forward with your warhound and get it to die inside the opponents unit mass. This is a base tactic. Now the knight does this, just twice as good.

Further benefit: The knight is scoring and does not take up a LoW slot. So spamming them is viable. Facing an army of 5 knights is equally to facing 4 warhound titans. What would be 3000 points is now close to 2000 points.

Conclusion: Would you take a baneblade or a warhound titan for half the points? The Knight can't be ignored, because when it reach combat, it is GG in most cases.. the baneblade can be ignored more

To my knowledge they are only scoring if you take them as an army. It also seems like most of the benefits you are giving them is their ability to die and the explosion it causes. But you are probably saying that since the other obvious stuff has been said, so yes, I know they are good. I think I am ganna go with them just because I know if I dont get it I will regret it lol. Still would love to hear what people think in the comparison though! Might end up getting both.

 Ryan_A wrote:
Here are my options:
The shadowsword would cost 555 in order to get BS4, and I would have 120" range S"D" Ap2 large blast and 2 twin-linked heavy bolters with 14/13/12 HP9
The Imperial Knight would cost 370 and I would have 36" range S9 AP1 large blast melta as well as S"D" close combat attacks and a heavy stubber with 13/12/12 HP6 with a 4++ save to one of the facings.

One costs 185pts more and gets a 120" S"D" weapon with better armor and more hull points, while the other is cheap and gets a large blast melta as well as S"D" close combat attacks.

So they both get strength "D"

So I am still having trouble deciding.

How often are super heavies being used in your area?

 Ryan_A wrote:


Am I missing something? Please tell me I am, I really want to get an imperial knight but cant justify it as a guard player.

Its rumoured that Lords of War will be 2k game plus only in the next iteration of the rules. Much like the double FoC now or 30k Lords of War.

Personally I'd prefer one of the tanks, mostly because the tanks are much more 'Guardy" in my opinion. Knights seem very geared (design-wise) to be 'Space Mariney'.

Take both.....problem solved

I have just added a Baneblade/Hellhammer to my list and I will get getting a knight next.

Field a Knight and Baneblade in a 1850 or 2000 point game will be very hard to deal with....

I love my Baneblade and Shadowsword.

The Imperial Knight does look better for "rule of cool".

Some things I did not see mentioned:
The knights get impact hits when they go into melee.
The knights can stomp attack as well.
The D attack with the combat weapon was covered but needs emphasis.

It really is a hard choice to kit it out for vehicle or high toughness stomping somewhat up close and personal OR horde killing from a distance and target of opportunity vehicle destroyer up close.

I will magnet up the gun so I do not have to make the choice until the army list is in front of me...

I think the melta configuration on the knight is the best aggressive option, the Shadowsword, do not get the sponsons and crank the armor up to 14 and snipe with that D weapon from a distance.

I think in a way having the Shadowsword on the table will vastly improve the Knight's survivability: Shadowsword = hard to kill, big threat immediately, Knight = easier to kill, bigger threat as he gets closer.

You have an ADL with quadgun but you also have 2 vendettas who can handle anti air pretty well themselves. You have a ton of artillery already including 2 LR demolishers which have ordnance weapons (maening thier lascannons and MM are only snapfiring).

The shadowsword also fulfills the role that your LR demolishers do.

If you take a shadowsword then you have to take at least one 55 point inquisitor to cast Prescience on it (and a bunker for him).

So I would suggest:
Buy the shadowsword
Buy a skyshield (depending on meta it will give the shadowsword that 4++ - think he will just about fit on it!)
Buy 2 inquisitors with lvl 1 divination and 3 skull scout thingies (one to prescience the Shadowsword and one to prescience the basilisk squadron)
Drop the LR Demolishers completely

Increase platoon size to 50
Bubble wrap for miles and gives the 2 inquisitors somewhere to hide.
At this point I would probably buy a single comissar (or lord comissar) to ensure the 50 strong unit doesn't run away under any circumstances!

This means saving 420 points (LR) + 100 points (ADL) = 520
spending 110 (inquisitors) + 75 (skyshield) + 150 (3 more platoon squads) + 550 for shadowsword = 885

This means your army only increased in points by 365 points (including the addition of the super heavy) which means you could probably squeeze in the knight as well!

If you are too tight on points you could put the platoon command squad into the vendettas with melta guns instead of one squad of vets (and save 80 points)

The rule of Big Boxes is:

1 Big Box is a target
2 Big Boxes is a tactic
3 Big Boxes is a strategy (because you are building your list around 3 or more large units)

A Big Box is a high value/high profile unit such as Land Raiders, Flyers, Superheavies, Monstrous Creatures, etc. In order to improve the survivability of a Big Box, take more than 1 Big Box. It takes 3-4 times the amount of effort to remove 2 Big Boxes as it would take to remove just one. Imperial Knights are the ultimate Big Box in the current game, due to being able to field them in numbers in a standard game (2-3 on average, 4-5 at the extreme in under 2000pt games). One Knight is huge target, but a Knight and a Shadowsword are 2 huge targets requiring 3-4 times the effort to remove as it would just the Knight or just the Shadowsword.

In short, take 2, if not 3.

SJ

 rabidguineapig wrote:
If you're suuuuuper worried about deep strikers, knock a basilisk off and take a 5 man GK Strike Squad with a basic inquisitor and use Warp Quake to keep deep strikers away from your baneblade/shadowsword. Anyone that lands within 12" of them while that psychic power is activated will mishap... If you combine a layer of guardsmen, a layer of GKs, and then the tank it would be pretty tough to get at it with melta.

And then you go second 50% of the time, so, 50% of the time the Drop Pod'd meltas just laugh at the Strike Squad.

A guard player would just be better off wrapping a 6.1" thick layer of guardsmen around it rather than hoping you don't lose your tank since you went second.

So, does anyone know of you can fit a shadowsword on a sky shield? Thinking about this for my Baneblade....very sneeky.

You sure can fit a baneblade variant on a Sky Shield. In fact you can fit a Stormlord with 4 sponsons and 15 Lascannons inside plus a Manticore.