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I think one of the best things to observe is GW pulling product from the site just before a new edition. credible?

Well, the new stuff IS going to get pulled, but often it's pulled only days before release (after pics of the new things have gone out), and the number of things that get pulled that DON'T get a new kit and is just a temporary lack of stocks outweighs the genuine new kits.

For example, with the current Wood Elf release, Glade Riders went out of stock for a while and they are not getting a new kit.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kosake wrote:

Dude, have you seen Badrukk? That's rogue trader style right there... Sweet mercifull Nurgle, I hope he gets a new modell, the old one makes me cry green blood.

I need yur choppa an yur slugga, yer license is 'ereby revoked!


Seriously, that model is amazing and fairly recent. What on earth could you find about this sculpt that's bad???

Come an' get it, you git, if yer still can move unda all dat gubbinz yer luggin!

What I dislike about the sculpt:
1. The posture. Badrukk looks like some sort of old man with a spine deformity. That's not the typical orky hunched posture, that's downright this:

2. The "Banner" or whatever it's supposed to be. That's not how a spaceship captain, veteran of boarding actions and tons of fights in close quarters looks like. FFS, he doesn't even have Bosspole or Waaagh-Banner on his profile.
3. Bayonetts are fine. Heavy orky blades are fine, too. But what's that under his gun? Some sort of stone-age hand axe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kelly502 wrote:
I think one of the best things to observe is GW pulling product from the site just before a new edition. credible?

Not really, judging by the usual GW attitute. They'll rather use every last second in order to sell another old kit before switching them for the new ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh... just found something:

It is even rumored, that he is building his own composite super-ork out of organs and body parts "donated" by his customers.

There you go. Orks get a Grotsnik Special Superork MC which is troops choice if MDG is your warlord or something... of all the things orks need, this is probably the least necessary, which is why we're probably going to see this.

An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

Re Badrukk - the only thing I'd question on the model is the gun not being big enough. That aside, he's fine imo...but then again I'm not one for flash gits anyway.

The only current Ork model I don't really like is the Tankbusta nob tbh. The greatcoat poncho look doesn't work for me, tho that's toally subjective. A pity as I think the rest of the unit is cracking, whether or not there'll be new models.

As for other rumours, if there's a gunwagon/flakkwagon kit I'll be delighted. A squadron or two of the old epic style tanks/wagons is most definitely on my tribe's wishlist.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

You mean, aside from tank hunters, PK-armed nobz with 4 attacks on a charge, kannons (both, grot-manned and on waggons), burnas (power weapon profile) and MANz... oh, and of course Deff Dreds. Or a group of killa canz. Or rokkit-armed copters (I use them in squads of 4 as mobile hunter groups).
And of course the SAG...

 Kosake wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

You mean, aside from tank hunters, PK-armed nobz with 4 attacks on a charge, kannons (both, grot-manned and on waggons), burnas (power weapon profile) and MANz... oh, and of course Deff Dreds. Or a group of killa canz. Or rokkit-armed copters (I use them in squads of 4 as mobile hunter groups).
And of course the SAG...

Tankbustas can't do much against a riptide or anything else with 2+ or a decent invulnerable. Against a wraithknight, they still need dozens of shots to bring it down; you end up spending way more than the value of the target you are shooting.

Kannons suffer from similar issues to tankbustas but worse because they aren't available in such large numbers.

Nobs only work if they aren't nullified by challenges or killed before they can strike. MC characters like daemon princes, tyrants and wraithlords can just call out a single nob and then inta-kill him before he can hit. You kind of need two characters in every unit to really get any use out of PKs now.

Biker nobs can work, because they are immune to challenges. But you lose a massive number of points worth of 'rank and file' nobs before the MC goes down. Meganobs are similar.

Burnas are S 4 AP 3 at best. Very few monstrous creatures are threatened by that. If you somehow get a charge against a Daemon Prince with fifteen burnas, you might be able to take him down like that.

Any Initiative 3 or better MC will simply kill a Deff Dred before it can strike, same with killa kans.

Koptas are no better than tankbustas. MC don't have rear armour to target.

The SAG does only one wound most of the time.

Of course, if you assume a new MC to be in the next codex, you might as well assume any of those options to gain something to be better at killing MCs.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Nobs only work if they aren't nullified by challenges or killed before they can strike. MC characters like daemon princes, tyrants and wraithlords can just call out a single nob and then inta-kill him before he can hit.

Would simply not accepting the challenge work ? Because one less nob will strike, but with 4 attacks each, is it such a big problem ?

 Jidmah wrote:
Of course, if you assume a new MC to be in the next codex, you might as well assume any of those options to gain something to be better at killing MCs.

Except that I'm pretty sure the GW rules-design process isn't 'what unit can we give rules to achieve this role', it's more 'what rules would be suitable to represent this unit's background / model'.

None of those units have any background which suggests hitting hard at high initiative, or sniper rules, or ranged instant death attacks, or being able to survive a S 10 AP 2 attack, or anything else which would actually make them good at hunting monsters.

A monstrous creature would be inherently suited to the role, because they automatically get smash attacks and most of them get T 6+ and plenty of wounds. Although I can't see much possibility of it getting jump-pack movement, a decent invulnerable or a good gun, so it would probably still be quite rubbish in general.

Most units in the codex only come with one nob. Actual Nob Squads will do the trick, sort of, but since you are losing 2 wounds for every smash attack he does I've found that they are really likely to lose combat and get run down.

A monstrous ork wouldn't sit well with me, unless it is a warboss or something higher up than a warboss in orky rank, a huge ork that is not the leader would go against all Ork hierarchy.

This thread has also derived into wish listing and will be annoying to sift through for people that haven't been following this, when we get some actual information.

 Denua wrote:
Anyone notice that FW took the Ork Battle Fortress off their site...

Um...not to derail the actual complete absence of rumors, but the Ork Battle Fortress has been off the FW site for six months at least. When I called and asked about it (I guess I don't consider it an abomination), they told me that the mold needed some repair work and that it should be back in production at some point. Admittedly, they could be lying to me, but, if you've got FW staff lying to actual customers, real information is going to be scarce on the ground.

In any case, it's not a recent disappearance.

The Battlefortress happens to be one of my favorite models, along with Badrukk. Must be something in the water here, I tend to play fun games with 2 full units of Flash Gitz too

I hope they don't make big, hulking Dire Trolls. I'd much rather see a Squiggoth kit in plastic

 RobZie wrote:
A monstrous ork wouldn't sit well with me, unless it is a warboss or something higher up than a warboss in orky rank, a huge ork that is not the leader would go against all Ork hierarchy.

Agreed in general, but some ork monstrosity created by some mad dok would be okay. It would be too stupid to become leader of anything, and it would not have grown that big due to being in charge, so no problem. I mean, orks in a dread are bigger than most big bosses too, and let us not get into the gargant vs big boss size comparison.

 Kelly502 wrote:
I think one of the best things to observe is GW pulling product from the site just before a new edition. credible?

Things come and go all the time. It's not really notable unfortunately.

I think a monstrous Ork wouldn't fit in, like you guys do. Now a plastic Squiggoth, I could see something like that happening. GW's been big on giant monsters and huge models lately, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 RobZie wrote:
A monstrous ork wouldn't sit well with me, unless it is a warboss or something higher up than a warboss in orky rank, a huge ork that is not the leader would go against all Ork hierarchy.

Agreed in general, but some ork monstrosity created by some mad dok would be okay. It would be too stupid to become leader of anything, and it would not have grown that big due to being in charge, so no problem. I mean, orks in a dread are bigger than most big bosses too, and let us not get into the gargant vs big boss size comparison.

I see your point, but Orks are supposed to respect size and size alone, no matter how smart/ stupid they are, but they obviously know the difference between a naturally grown Ork and a piece of machinery they have build for their own purposes.

 RobZie wrote:
I see your point, but Orks are supposed to respect size and size alone, no matter how smart/ stupid they are, but they obviously know the difference between a naturally grown Ork and a piece of machinery they have build for their own purposes.

So what about squiggoth. They can be much bigger than any warboss. We are talking squiggoth-level intelligence here. If not direct mind-control using a remote.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

yeah... orks have no solution for MC's, even our best chars in CC with power fists will die... ghazzy might have a chance but thats it.

orks need acess to more varied AP CCW's and need some more instant death stuff for sure.

So what about squiggoth. They can be much bigger than any warboss. We are talking squiggoth-level intelligence here. If not direct mind-control using a remote.

Squigs arent Orks, They are seen as food or entertainment, and even if they get to the size and power of a Squiggoth they are still seen as beasts. You can twist it all you want for your own means, but in the current fluff the biggest ORK is the boss.

Edit: Maybe i misinterpreted that. do you mean a squig based monstrous creature? i would definitely be all for that.

 easysauce wrote:
yeah... orks have no solution for MC's, even our best chars in CC with power fists will die... ghazzy might have a chance but thats it.

A biker warboss can do OK. Doesn't suffer ID from S 10, 5+ Invulnerable and can possibly get FNP too. Can kill quite a few monstrous characters in a challenge and will eventually beat down even riptides and wraithknights, at the cost of losing a whole bunch of his retinue.

 easysauce wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

yeah... orks have no solution for MC's, even our best chars in CC with power fists will die... ghazzy might have a chance but thats it.

orks need acess to more varied AP CCW's and need some more instant death stuff for sure.

Ork Lootas with a twin linked beamy deffgun (lascannon) would be a step in the right direction to rounding out the ork arsenal. Making dreads MCs would be nice as well (kanz are the ork walker unit, dreads should be MCs going by the GW logic of MCs being better walkers)

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
yeah... orks have no solution for MC's, even our best chars in CC with power fists will die... ghazzy might have a chance but thats it.

A biker warboss can do OK. Doesn't suffer ID from S 10, 5+ Invulnerable and can possibly get FNP too. Can kill quite a few monstrous characters in a challenge and will eventually beat down even riptides and wraithknights, at the cost of losing a whole bunch of his retinue.

nope, sorry the bike boss dies horribly, he only has 3 wounds for some stupid reason, and will be striking after the MC... he only has ws5 too.. the MC also generally has FNP without having to buy a whole unit + mad doc.

most MC's will strike first with 5+ attacks, hit on 3's wound on twos, and do 3 wounds pretty easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vankraken wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
An MC of our own would help to get in fights with enemy MCs though. I find it very difficult to fight anything in the MC class, because short of "buy more lootas" our options are pretty limited.

yeah... orks have no solution for MC's, even our best chars in CC with power fists will die... ghazzy might have a chance but thats it.

orks need acess to more varied AP CCW's and need some more instant death stuff for sure.

Ork Lootas with a twin linked beamy deffgun (lascannon) would be a step in the right direction to rounding out the ork arsenal. Making dreads MCs would be nice as well (kanz are the ork walker unit, dreads should be MCs going by the GW logic of MCs being better walkers)

yeah, some kind of reliable hight str ap2 shooting would definetly help. That would fix a lot of the issues with anti armour too. ZZAP guns would be the perfect candidate for this, so hopefully the get a bit better then they are now.

One or two force weapons in the army, even if they arnt ap2, would do wonders for orks.

but considering how orks are supposed to be great at CC... it just seems weird how bad at it they are, outside of rank and file orks VS rank and file other basic troops.

a Monstrous Creature ork? Seems unlikely fluff-wise - and something like a squiggoth seems too clan-specific. On the other hand, a big walker, e.g. a Mega-Dredd (or mini-Stompa if there is such a thing?), seems far more likely, IMHO.

Mc ork unlikely fluff wise.. Apart from the fluff stating directly that this can and indeed did happen, admittedly it was during hh but it did happen, so a mc warlord ork (step above warboss) would work and allowing it to join units like the primarchs from hh and your golden, this would make the warlord (and ghazzy) truelly terrors on the battlefield, as they should be

why are MC orks not fluffy?

IMO a warboss is supposed to be the ORIGINAL MC...

plus in the fluff they are supposed to have no upper limit to their size and strength.

thats exactly what the orks need is a MC or two, MC warbosses would be both fun, fluffy, and effective!

why would it be a bad thing that a gigantic ORGANIC creature is a MC? I literally cant think of anything about a MC ork that doesnt scream "cooooooool"

I don't think these üvver-orks as described by the original rumor are going to be MCs. Large, multiwound shock troops a la Ogryns, perhaps, but certainly not large-base monstrous creatures.

As a sidenote, the "buzzsaw cannon" they're supposedly armed with sends me echoes of the blade-hurling rivebows used by the cactacae on China Mièville's Bas-Lag series.

 easysauce wrote:
why are MC orks not fluffy?

IMO a warboss is supposed to be the ORIGINAL MC...

plus in the fluff they are supposed to have no upper limit to their size and strength.

thats exactly what the orks need is a MC or two, MC warbosses would be both fun, fluffy, and effective!

why would it be a bad thing that a gigantic ORGANIC creature is a MC? I literally cant think of anything about a MC ork that doesnt scream "cooooooool"

Its not the fact that warbosses being MCs is unfluffy, like you say it very fluffy. However an Ork that is larger than a warboss and not an HQ choice OR the warboss/ warlord itself is very unfluffy.

Oh, the Squiggoth may be happening at some point. Notice how the smaller, non-gargantuan one is conspicuously missing from the Forgeworld site...

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Oh, the Squiggoth may be happening at some point. Notice how the smaller, non-gargantuan one is conspicuously missing from the Forgeworld site...

You mean this Squiggoth?

Stuff vanishes every so often off the FW site if they are redoing the molds or getting ready to run down the stock levels.