Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Zweischneid wrote:
The problem with Blood Angels vs. Orks is that it is a BOLS-rumour.

My personal thoughts are that the BOLS rumour was an educated guess. However, my own educated guess is that they are the two most likely factions. I'm pretty sure I could have come to that conclusion without BOLS saying it first.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
The problem with Blood Angels vs. Orks is that it is a BOLS-rumour.

My personal thoughts are that the BOLS rumour was an educated guess. However, my own educated guess is that they are the two most likely factions. I'm pretty sure I could have come to that conclusion without BOLS saying it first.

True. but the "educated guess" by most people would've also expected a new edition for Fantasy in 2014 and a 7th Edition for 40K in 2016.

40K Radio broke news with the surprising and "counter-intuitive" (double-)rumour that 40K will be getting a new Edition as early as 2014 (and Fantasy will not) and that it will be a "book only" release without a starter-set.

They've been spot-on so far. Why would people at this point jump to assumptions based on past patterns, when the very rumour that goes against past patterns has been partially proven right so far.

You know what would be nice for the new codex? Better Tankbustas.
And leave the lootas alone.
I think with the new Flashgitz models we should be seeing some changes to them, hopefully they will be useful, as it would be a shame to get sexy new minis with no use to them.

Am I the only one who thinks that Flash Gitz aren't half bad for the price? Many people seem to forget their Nobs, so their CC ability is significantly better than a normal Boy. The real weakness of them is based on that fact - that you're paying for that ability ON TOP of some dakka. The randomness of their weapons however also hurts a fair bit, but it doesn't seem as bad as rolling 1-2 on your Loota shots all game :(

Oh yeah, 4+ saves and possible FNP, with Ignores Cover? Not too shabby.

For me, the issue is that Flash Gits just aren't worth five times their number in shoota boys. They are maybe 3-4 times as effective against most infantry (with more dakka) and maybe 3-4 times as survivable (with a painboy).

Being able to concentrate that much firepower into a ten model unit rather than two 20 model units would be worth the cost if (a) there were practical transport options for them and (b) orks had any ability to buff shooting attacks on a per-unit basis.

They are fairly close to being a decent unit though. One battlewagon with ten more-dakka gits is 390, two battlewagons with 40 shoota boys is 420. If the gits were maybe 50 points less and didn't use two heavy support slots, you could put the difference into a spare transport or a repair crew and come out about even.

 ntdars wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that Flash Gitz aren't half bad for the price? Many people seem to forget their Nobs, so their CC ability is significantly better than a normal Boy. The real weakness of them is based on that fact - that you're paying for that ability ON TOP of some dakka. The randomness of their weapons however also hurts a fair bit, but it doesn't seem as bad as rolling 1-2 on your Loota shots all game :(

Oh yeah, 4+ saves and possible FNP, with Ignores Cover? Not too shabby.

They are still overpriced for what they do. A reasonably well kitted out squad clocks in at 420 pts (dakka-upgrades, without the "gets hot", dok. cybork bodies, no Badrukk).
Result: 9 Assault 2 range 24 S6 shots with AP random.

For only 360 points you can also have:
3 Battlewagons with a cannon and 4 big shootas.
Result: 3 Templates or S8 AP 3 and 12 Assault 3 S5 AP 5, ranged 36".

Add a minimal squad of burnas or lootas with maxed out meks in the squad and at 435 points you also have 3 24" AP2 custom megablasters and either two templates or two deffguns.

Reliable 36 S5 AP5 range 36" shots are preferable to unreliable 18 S6 AP? range 24" shots. So unless you know you are trying to outshoot a deathwing terminator list, the battlewagons work better. Hell, I think even against terminators battlewagons work better because of their higher mobility compared to footsloggers.

Badrukk costs 135 pts. Thats more than a kitted out battlewagon for much less output I'd wager.

That sums it up pretty well I feel. It's not that they're super ineffective, just that they're not worth the cost.

I had a friend who always Brought 2 squads of terminators, and as far as he was concerned, Flashgitz were overpowered. He could never quite work out why i never used them against anyone else.

 RobZie wrote:
I had a friend who always Brought 2 squads of terminators, and as far as he was concerned, Flashgitz were overpowered. He could never quite work out why i never used them against anyone else.

Did he try sticking them in some sort of land-raider and drive them to the good old "i want to hit them with my sword"-range? against Armour 14 flash gitz can't do much and assault vehicle full of clawy terminators spell shredding doom for any unit except MANz...

 Kosake wrote:

 RobZie wrote:
I had a friend who always Brought 2 squads of terminators, and as far as he was concerned, Flashgitz were overpowered. He could never quite work out why i never used them against anyone else.

Did he try sticking them in some sort of land-raider and drive them to the good old "i want to hit them with my sword"-range? against Armour 14 flash gitz can't do much and assault vehicle full of clawy terminators spell shredding doom for any unit except MANz...

No, he wasn't a smart man. i think he would slog one unit and DS the other (both shooty with ACs. My point was i would only use flashgitz against a silly twit like that.

On a side note when i picked up the current ork codex at the tail end of 4th i thought they looked great on paper and promptly converted some up and bought a Painboy. Didn't take me long to realize what i could be getting with the points.

Thats really sad. I think flash gitz are among the most colorful, characteristic units for orks. Them being completely out of sync pointswise is a real bummer. There's hoping for the next dex...

Especially if the rumour about the new Flashgitz models is true, it would really suck if the codex still had them as too expensive, or changed them to suck more.

 Squidbot wrote:
Especially if the rumour about the new Flashgitz models is true, it would really suck if the codex still had them as too expensive, or changed them to suck more.

It would really suck... but it would *NOT* be unexpected if Flashgitz continue to suck.



*editited* added the not

Add a not in there?

 Kosake wrote:
Thats really sad. I think flash gitz are among the most colorful, characteristic units for orks. Them being completely out of sync pointswise is a real bummer. There's hoping for the next dex...

Same here. Started building up an ork army recently and always liked the idea of a pirate fleet. Of the bands though, Flash Gitz always had the most entertaining fluff bar HQs and I was bummed to find out they were just the same as KSons. Just not worth itl Man if they did become worth ti though...

Points drop for Nobz is a must.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Thats really sad. I think flash gitz are among the most colorful, characteristic units for orks. Them being completely out of sync pointswise is a real bummer. There's hoping for the next dex...

Same here. Started building up an ork army recently and always liked the idea of a pirate fleet. Of the bands though, Flash Gitz always had the most entertaining fluff bar HQs and I was bummed to find out they were just the same as KSons. Just not worth itl Man if they did become worth ti though...

Uhm... Thousand Sons clock in at 265 pts for 10, including a caster and having the option for a dedicated transport. Damagewise and in terms of survivability, I think the output is somewhat comparable. Just my feeling, but I think 1ksons are the more reliable and cost-effective choice, with gitz being able to do more damage in CC and about 1:1 chance of performing significantly worse or better in ranged combat.

rothrich wrote:Dose it me choppas and sluggas or sluggas and shootas?

Gitzbitah wrote:Awww... and here I was expecting Balla Boyz to be some sort of taller Ork with spiffy grenade special rules.

rothrich wrote:The german dictionary i looked in had ballast which means to blast... could not find any relevant info on the word moscha
[spaltas is the german word for slugga so I guess no shoota boyz

Balla boyz actually comes from "ballern" which is colloquial for "shooting". It's pretty much the perfect translation for "shoota boyz". "Spalta" is the translation of choppa ("spalten" means "to split"), and Spalta Boyz refer to boyz using sluggas and choppa. Neither term is new and have been in use here in Germany longer than I'm playing the game.

 RobZie wrote:
I had a friend who always Brought 2 squads of terminators, and as far as he was concerned, Flashgitz were overpowered. He could never quite work out why i never used them against anyone else.

The point is, Flash Gits are not effective at killing terminators. If you calculate the points per terminators killed, Flash Gits are far behind shoota boys, kannons, lobbas, lootaz and even gretchin shooting their S3 guns. In fact, slugga boyz shooting at terminators are only slightly worse than flash gits when it comes to killing 2+ models. And the most awesome part is, buying the AP upgrade actually makes them less efficient because you get too little for your points. The best deal in a flash git unit is actually Captain Badrukk despite his hefty price tag, because his gun is so awesome and he comes with three ammo runts. To be worth their price tag, all (fully upgraded) flash gits would have to have S7 AP2 guns.

Grotz vs terminators? Somehow, this looks interesting. 13 Grotz per Terminator. So a minimal squad of 5 dudes would allready mean 67 models on the field.

Which isn't really that much, if you consider 29+2 units

Well, without wanting to redo the math, you get 8 gretchin for every basic flash git, once you start adding upgrades, you get a lot more.

It's not an advice to use gretchin to kill terminators, it just displays how bad Flash Gits are at killing the target they were supposedly meant to kill. Phil Kelly (if he's the one to blame) probably isn't really firm at statistics, as displayed on the zzap gun - which is worse than a regular kannon in almost every regard (except when you explode an AV14 vehicle), while costing ten points extra.

My mind is filled with glee at the idea of a Terminator squad being swarmed by a sea of Gretchin. Trying to shake them off as they prise at their armour, pulling out tubes and important bits.

 Squidbot wrote:
My mind is filled with glee at the idea of a Terminator squad being swarmed by a sea of Gretchin. Trying to shake them off as they prise at their armour, pulling out tubes and important bits.

That would make for an kick-ass golden-demon entry. "Looting in progress"

Is there any chance of Nob Squad Leaders being able to equip Shootas if they are in a Shootas Squad (or in general)?

1. A Warboss can have a Shoota and a Klaw.
2. Nobs in a Nob Squad can have a Klaw and Improved Shootas.
3. Klaws are Specialist Weapons which means having a Slugga doesn't give +1A.
4. Neither of their Melee choices can blend with a Slugga.
5. Since wounds go to the front, Nobs go deeper back in the ranks. Having a shorter range means he has even less chance of getting to shoot his Slugga.

Does this have any chance of seeing the light of day?

Finally is it time for Lootas to be a Heavy Support Choice (only heavy weapon in the army) and Flash Gitz becoming Elite (they are Nobs with armor and a Pain Boy)?

Sick Bag wrote:
Is there any chance of Nob Squad Leaders being able to equip Shootas if they are in a Shootas Squad (or in general)?

1. A Warboss can have a Shoota and a Klaw.
2. Nobs in a Nob Squad can have a Klaw and Improved Shootas.
3. Klaws are Specialist Weapons which means having a Slugga doesn't give +1A.
4. Neither of their Melee choices can blend with a Slugga.
5. Since wounds go to the front, Nobs go deeper back in the ranks. Having a shorter range means he has even less chance of getting to shoot his Slugga.

Does this have any chance of seeing the light of day?

Finally is it time for Lootas to be a Heavy Support Choice (only heavy weapon in the army) and Flash Gitz becoming Elite (they are Nobs with armor and a Pain Boy)?

At present you can, and pretty much always should, throw one of your Big Shootas on the Nob that leads your boyz squad. This gives them precision shots on a more powerful gun.

Granted, this does jack all for the likes of Stormboys, Kommandos, and other units.. But it's still an option.

O_o I don't think you can give a Nob a big shoota.

The codex is very clear in that regard:

One boy may be upgraded to a Nob...10pts
He may replace his choppa with the following
Big choppa ...5pts
Power Klaw ...25pts
He may take any of the following
'eavy armor ...5pts
bosspole ...5pts

No options to replace his slugga whatsoever. Only nobs in the nob squad get combi weapons, again, no big shoota.

I thought you upgraded a boy to have a shooter and then upgraded *that* boy to be the Nob.


Or would that action "reset" the equipment on the model?

More importantly, it would look pretty gash from a modelling standpoint.

WDW confirms no new starter box.
Someone lied to Faeit.
Again.

 Kosake wrote:
O_o I don't think you can give a Nob a big shoota.

The codex is very clear in that regard:

One boy may be upgraded to a Nob...10pts
He may replace his choppa with the following
Big choppa ...5pts
Power Klaw ...25pts
He may take any of the following
'eavy armor ...5pts
bosspole ...5pts

No options to replace his slugga whatsoever. Only nobs in the nob squad get combi weapons, again, no big shoota.

One ork from a boyz mob may have a big shoota. Note that one of the German codex' 37 translation errors is translating this instance of "ork" to "boy". In an English (or French, as I've been told) codex it is possible to give a big shoota to your leading nob. All my shoota nobz have big shootaz, and they look pretty awesome wielding them in addition to their PK.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
O_o I don't think you can give a Nob a big shoota.

The codex is very clear in that regard:

One boy may be upgraded to a Nob...10pts
He may replace his choppa with the following
Big choppa ...5pts
Power Klaw ...25pts
He may take any of the following
'eavy armor ...5pts
bosspole ...5pts

No options to replace his slugga whatsoever. Only nobs in the nob squad get combi weapons, again, no big shoota.

One ork from a boyz mob may have a big shoota. Note that one of the German codex' 37 translation errors is translating this instance of "ork" to "boy". In an English (or French, as I've been told) codex it is possible to give a big shoota to your leading nob. All my shoota nobz have big shootaz, and they look pretty awesome wielding them in addition to their PK.

I'm really not sure whether this is intended, more likely just abusing of RAW. The wording looks too much like something you'd write if you didn't even have the idea to give the big shoota to the nob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Avian wrote:
WDW confirms no new starter box.
Someone lied to Faeit.
Again.

Bummer. Hoped for a new starter to get moar ork goodness.