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Greyhound wrote:
Ok so maybe we'll have some good dangerous shooty orks like Flash gitz...
but in this case why would I want to leave them in a morkanaut for 3 turns as he shuffles around?

It has no fire points, so that's still of dubious value. They either can't shoot until they disembark or they can't assault until the turn after they disembark.

To be honest, I was wondering if it might just be better to not use the Morkanaut as a transport and instead to just use it as a gun platform. Unlike a regular transport it doesn't serve the purpose of getting you into combat faster.

I'm also in the 'that model is kinda weak looking' camp. But hey, we're orks for feths sake. Here is an example of what can easily replace that model. I took my mega dread from FW and beefed up its base so its the right height. I then converted a mega blaster thing for the cannon which is now magnetized, used some deaf dread bits to make a KFF on the back of it and added on a platform on the back for models to ride on. How do they get off you might ask, the dread lifts its arms and the jump off, again they are orks.

Just need to add on some rokkets.

Let me know what you think of the idea, its going to the paint station soon. Its just got its base rust color on it now.

The transport capacity is misleading. It isn't there to actually do what a transport does (namely, getting a unit from A to B as quickly and as intact as possible), the capacity is there to allow units of 3 meks and 2 burnas + a KFF mek inside.

4 rolls on the repair table + IWND + whatever a KFF does now (I'm guessing Shrouded) = pretty durable gun platform.

You can either do that, or put a small counterdefense unit like 6 burnas inside, to protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat, in that when the enemy gets close enough they hop out and burninate everything.

The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average, and rolling is still weaker than a warwalker with 2 scatterlasers.

The mega-shoota and the 2 twin-linked big shootas together are directly comparable to a HYMP broadside that comes in at 65(?) points, giving slightly more hits, but at S6 instead of S7, and no ignores cover\LOS on the S5.

 TedNugent wrote:

Greyhound wrote:
Ok so maybe we'll have some good dangerous shooty orks like Flash gitz...
but in this case why would I want to leave them in a morkanaut for 3 turns as he shuffles around?

It has no fire points, so that's still of dubious value. They either can't shoot until they disembark or they can't assault until the turn after they disembark.

To be honest, I was wondering if it might just be better to not use the Morkanaut as a transport and instead to just use it as a gun platform. Unlike a regular transport it doesn't serve the purpose of getting you into combat faster.

It's probably meant to just be a walking gun platform with the added benefit of 6 troops inside. I can see how it could work: Gork/Morkanaut makes it across the board, dump out your "kill team," and use them as a distraction so you can capture objectives or get the rest of your units across the board. If you have 3 MANZ, or a squad of burnas and meks, or some other combination of killy things, then whoever you're fighting will more likely try to kill those new threats than things that are 20 inches away.

We should note that we've only seen the stats for the MORKANAUT - the Gorkanaut remains a mystery as to most of its wargear and options besides the klaw, rokkits, big shootas and deffstorm. It can be assumed that it's probably the same though.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
The transport capacity is misleading. It isn't there to actually do what a transport does (namely, getting a unit from A to B as quickly and as intact as possible), the capacity is there to allow units of 3 meks and 2 burnas + a KFF mek inside.

4 rolls on the repair table + IWND + whatever a KFF does now (I'm guessing Shrouded) = pretty durable gun platform.

You can either do that, or put a small counterdefense unit like 6 burnas inside, to protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat, in that when the enemy gets close enough they hop out and burninate everything.

Except as pointed out, it has 0 fire points and isn't open topped; the burnas inside can't shoot, and so can't "protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat". That's also 75 points being spent on models riding around inside it, which doesn't save it from being Explode-able by melta weapons. It's durable, sure, but the extra points spent making it so probably go a good way to just getting a second one.

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average, and rolling is still weaker than a warwalker with 2 scatterlasers.

The mega-shoota and the 2 twin-linked big shootas together are directly comparable to a HYMP broadside that comes in at 65(?) points, giving slightly more hits, but at S6 instead of S7, and no ignores cover\LOS on the S5.

How would you take that into account whilst keeping in mind the far higher durability this platform offers? A warwalker can have 18 scatterlasers on it for all I care, I've never seen one survive past turn one.

A broadside also only has 2 wounds at toughness 4 and a relatively low leadership. 2+ armour, mind, but there's plenty that ignores that.

Also, your statement of "slightly worse on average than a single scatter laser" is misleading. It implies that the only thing we can expect the mega-shoota to do is perform as a scatter laser. This is false, it has a far higher potential. Plus, higher AP if that's a consideration. Maybe you're shooting against necron warriors, fire warriors, AM veterans, tempestus scions, various flavour of eldar, or 'ard boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
The transport capacity is misleading. It isn't there to actually do what a transport does (namely, getting a unit from A to B as quickly and as intact as possible), the capacity is there to allow units of 3 meks and 2 burnas + a KFF mek inside.

4 rolls on the repair table + IWND + whatever a KFF does now (I'm guessing Shrouded) = pretty durable gun platform.

You can either do that, or put a small counterdefense unit like 6 burnas inside, to protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat, in that when the enemy gets close enough they hop out and burninate everything.

Except as pointed out, it has 0 fire points and isn't open topped; the burnas inside can't shoot, and so can't "protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat". That's also 75 points being spent on models riding around inside it, which doesn't save it from being Explode-able by melta weapons. It's durable, sure, but the extra points spent making it so probably go a good way to just getting a second one.

If you'd bothered to take the extra 5 seconds and comprehend what I meant, instead of jumping to a false conclusion, you'd see that I intended for the burnas to hop out in response to an extant assault threat in the proceeding turn. They then form a protective ring around the machine, protecting it for a turn with flamer templates and Wall of Death if the assault threat charges them. The same thing applies for a (non-deep striking) melta threat, incidentally, as generally melta units need to get pretty close to become effective.

I don't really understand how you can argue that saving 75pts will help you buy another one when it's almost certainly going to be priced around the 220-250pt range.

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average,

Average of 10.5 shots vs 4 shots?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I intended for the burnas to hop out in response to an extant assault threat in the proceeding turn. They then form a protective ring around the machine, protecting it for a turn with flamer templates and Wall of Death if the assault threat charges them. The same thing applies for a (non-deep striking) melta threat, incidentally, as generally melta units need to get pretty close to become effective.

I don't really understand how you can argue that saving 75pts will help you buy another one when it's almost certainly going to be priced around the 220-250pt range.

I thought of that option too, but realistically things might likely got this way:
1. You finish your turn, Burnas inside... you think your enemy is close enough and might try to assault you soon, you disgorge your ring of burnas.
2. Ennemy closes in, for instance in a vehicle, or just 2 small units.
First unit shoots the burnas. All they need to do get is 3 wounds so 7 hits at ST4, most units can output that, even a dedicated transport.
Burnas run, other unit charge the morkanaut. At this rate/cost you would have been better off unloading 6 lootas, shoot all 6 as snapshot and net the same benefit.

You don't need to put a KFF mek in there, the Gorkanaut (or maybe the Morkanaut) can buy a KFF for 50 points.

I'm still not sold on the transport function... unless of course we get some new grot units OR grots take only half the space. That would mean 10 grots and a runtherd.

 44Ronin wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average,

Average of 10.5 shots vs 4 shots?

The Mega-shoota averages 10.5 shots and 3.5 hits. The Scatter laser has 4 shots and averages 3.56 hits.

If the Mega-shoota gets 18 shots (very unlikely) it will average 6 hits, compared to 7.11 for a pair of scatterlasers.

I would also wait to see what new unit may better fit in the Morka/Gorka-naut

I still believe that just keeping a small troop of Boyz inside the belly might be useful to claim an objective late in the game

 Toburk wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average,

Average of 10.5 shots vs 4 shots?

The Mega-shoota averages 10.5 shots and 3.5 hits. The Scatter laser has 4 shots and averages 3.56 hits.

If the Mega-shoota gets 18 shots (very unlikely) it will average 6 hits, compared to 7.11 for a pair of scatterlasers.

Blah Blah Blah, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA WAAAAAGH!


Seriously guys?! You are Orks! Act like it!

Melta is only going to explode a vehicle on a 5+, not exactly reliable.

Sure, you can deepstrike a melta heavy sternguard or command squad next to it and reliably take it down, but you can say that for pretty much any vehicle in the game.

Leerjawise wrote:
Blah Blah Blah, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA WAAAAAGH!

Seriously guys?! You are Orks! Act like it!

Give us the rules to represent this!

My nobs disembark and charge - no you can't just sit there
My Kommandos come out and charge - no you can't just sit there
My 30 boys go on rampage running at you - roll a D6, that's a 1, just move them a little, and see you next turn
I'm rolling over your troops with my deffrolla! - I'm hiding behind leaves actually, so no, I have cover save, no one is hurt
I'm shooting my 18 shots - Thanks mate, you clipped some branches, but that's unfortunately 5 hits, and my armour save laugh back at you.

Play the ork, I do that all the time, it's the result I cry about.

For 6 boys inside you can't have 6 boys at the start of the game, only 10.

 Toburk wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average,

Average of 10.5 shots vs 4 shots?

The Mega-shoota averages 10.5 shots and 3.5 hits. The Scatter laser has 4 shots and averages 3.56 hits.

If the Mega-shoota gets 18 shots (very unlikely) it will average 6 hits, compared to 7.11 for a pair of scatterlasers.

#1. Crew =/= weapon.
#2. Scatter laser is not twin linked on its own.

That's
4 shots * (@BS4) 0.66 = 2.64

 Deunstephe wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

Greyhound wrote:
Ok so maybe we'll have some good dangerous shooty orks like Flash gitz...
but in this case why would I want to leave them in a morkanaut for 3 turns as he shuffles around?

It has no fire points, so that's still of dubious value. They either can't shoot until they disembark or they can't assault until the turn after they disembark.

To be honest, I was wondering if it might just be better to not use the Morkanaut as a transport and instead to just use it as a gun platform. Unlike a regular transport it doesn't serve the purpose of getting you into combat faster.

It's probably meant to just be a walking gun platform with the added benefit of 6 troops inside. I can see how it could work: Gork/Morkanaut makes it across the board, dump out your "kill team," and use them as a distraction so you can capture objectives or get the rest of your units across the board. If you have 3 MANZ, or a squad of burnas and meks, or some other combination of killy things, then whoever you're fighting will more likely try to kill those new threats than things that are 20 inches away.

We should note that we've only seen the stats for the MORKANAUT - the Gorkanaut remains a mystery as to most of its wargear and options besides the klaw, rokkits, big shootas and deffstorm. It can be assumed that it's probably the same though.

Gorkanaut has Deffstorm cannon, a skorcha, two TL big shootas, two rokkits, and the klaw.

Sounds like a wargear swap similar to Knight Paladin vs Knight Errant.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

Except as pointed out, it has 0 fire points and isn't open topped; the burnas inside can't shoot, and so can't "protect it from things wishing to fight it in close combat". That's also 75 points being spent on models riding around inside it, which doesn't save it from being Explode-able by melta weapons. It's durable, sure, but the extra points spent making it so probably go a good way to just getting a second one.

If you'd bothered to take the extra 5 seconds and comprehend what I meant, instead of jumping to a false conclusion, you'd see that I intended for the burnas to hop out in response to an extant assault threat in the proceeding turn. They then form a protective ring around the machine, protecting it for a turn with flamer templates and Wall of Death if the assault threat charges them. The same thing applies for a (non-deep striking) melta threat, incidentally, as generally melta units need to get pretty close to become effective.

I don't really understand how you can argue that saving 75pts will help you buy another one when it's almost certainly going to be priced around the 220-250pt range.

I did take 5 extra seconds; it was still a bad suggestion. 5 burna boyz for bubble wrap? You really think they'll survive enemy shooting? Your enemy is charging an AV13 walker, but you'll have your 5 T4 6+ armor boyz in the way? Really?

As for deep striking melta, how does flaming them AFTER they've fired do anything? Your Naut is still likely down at least a couple HP, if not destroyed entirely. Which is funny, because it would then likely kill your bubble wrap given their lack of saves. I mean, there are far better things to throw inside it, and far better places for Burna Boyz to be is all.

Greyhound wrote:

For 6 boys inside you can't have 6 boys at the start of the game, only 10.

wooops

 44Ronin wrote:

#2. Scatter laser is not twin linked on its own.

That's
4 shots * (@BS4) 0.66 = 2.64

Then I have to have a talk with some people lol.

Unless they change it to a 5-30 unit.

Wouldn't put it past them.

Leerjawise wrote:

 Toburk wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

 Toburk wrote:
The Gorkanaut is prime bait for being overcosted.

Case in point, the Deffstorm mega-shoota is actually slightly worst than a single scatterlaser on average,

Average of 10.5 shots vs 4 shots?

The Mega-shoota averages 10.5 shots and 3.5 hits. The Scatter laser has 4 shots and averages 3.56 hits.

If the Mega-shoota gets 18 shots (very unlikely) it will average 6 hits, compared to 7.11 for a pair of scatterlasers.

Blah Blah Blah, DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA WAAAAAGH!


Seriously guys?! You are Orks! Act like it!

Have an exalt!

 Toburk wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

#2. Scatter laser is not twin linked on its own.

That's
4 shots * (@BS4) 0.66 = 2.64

Then I have to have a talk with some people lol.

They are TL on wave serpents and one of the two usually are on war walkers.

However, it's not an unreasonable comment. Neither guns that those things can equip are that great.

nflagey wrote:

Greyhound wrote:

For 6 boys inside you can't have 6 boys at the start of the game, only 10.

wooops

but it's not meant for boys. it's meant for a Warboss and his retinue. So probably he will be able to take two meganobz or four nobz

Grot Riggers grants It Will Not Die on vehicles? Nice!

It's going to be like having an intellectual conversation with Kelly Brook, looks great but just ain't gonna work. If the boss and retinue are in there the rest will be laughing. He'll either get to the party late, or not at all. All the while the dakka looks impressive but wont achieve much. Feels like gargants in epic armageddon. Look cool but far better options available. After that thinking, ill get one as they look cool!!!

I don't know about them being late. Just use them as part of your green tide and have them provide the KFF for everyone instead of that snipeable mek we used so foar. You can tansport some stuff in them that you don't want shot up (foot nobz come to mind), or simply nothing at all. I'd just bring them for the S8 shots and the ability to tear many MCs a new one in close combat. AV13 walker are already hard to handle, now they are even harder to explode and this one got 5HP, IWND and possibly whatever mek tools will do now. Seems solid to me, screw the transport capacity.

Hell, I might run one just to nesting-doll ghazzy at someone

#excitement

re the supposed twin-gun kanz, I'd be very surprised if we get an updated kanz kit. But just maybe the codex lets you choose what to put on each arm, i.e. one shooty and one choppy, two choppy, or two shooty? Sure, a little conversion would be needed if you want e.g. a unit of three each with two choppy arms, but most players would not complain...

New usr, Orks treat all vehicles as assault vehicles. I can dream, can't I?

I predict there won't be buggies this update, which is crazy until you consider that there will almost certainly be a speed freeks supplement, and they'll need something to release at the same time. Fingers crossed, boyz...