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Dragonzord wrote:
Is there any news on what the deffstorm mega shoota or the kustom mega cannon do? They showed us what the snazz guns do..

Deffstorm: 36", S6, AP4, Heavy 3D6
Cannon: 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Gets Hot

Leerjawise wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
Is there any news on what the deffstorm mega shoota or the kustom mega cannon do? They showed us what the snazz guns do..

Deffstorm: 36", S6, AP4, Heavy 3D6
Cannon: 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Gets Hot

oh... so the deffstorm's are just generally infinitely better. While AP2 is useful, having a 1/3 chance to hit is pretty bad compared to 3d6 shots...

so last Saturday, we already had the cover on the next WD

this week, so far, we "just" have some info about the Flash Gitz, nothing else ... and it looks like the page that was leaked is from another WD, not the codex

so, still no leaks about the codex?

Leerjawise wrote:
Deffstorm: 36", S6, AP4, Heavy 3D6

Deffstorm: 10.5 shots, 3.5 hits,

Compare that to the dakkajet:

3 TL supa shoota at BS3: 9 shots, 6.75 shots

So basically you get half a dakkajet worth of hits, or a quarter of a dakkajet during a waaagh.

Just think that if you had 2 Gorkanaut (or is it the morkanaut) you would get 7 hits.
For the same price you'd have 3 dakkajets for ~20 hits, or ~40 hits during the waaagh

in terms of firepower the deffstorm is underwhelming.


But let's ignore the dakkajet which is OP,
The Deffstorm is basically 3 big shootas, wired togther with a bit of extra ST. You will get pretty much that firepower from 2 deff dread with 2 big shootas each.

Dragonzord wrote:

Leerjawise wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
Is there any news on what the deffstorm mega shoota or the kustom mega cannon do? They showed us what the snazz guns do..

Deffstorm: 36", S6, AP4, Heavy 3D6
Cannon: 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Gets Hot

oh... so the deffstorm's are just generally infinitely better. While AP2 is useful, having a 1/3 chance to hit is pretty bad compared to 3d6 shots...

The Kustom Mega-Kannon is a blast weapon: 36”, S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot.

The Morkanaut main Kannon is a Blast weapon

So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.

Crazyterran wrote:
So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.

Well, the two nauts are point wise a lot cheaper then a stompa. Fully kitted out I would say it's about a third of the cost. Other then that I would like to see them in action to make a true guess.

Crazyterran wrote:
So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.

Getting a huge KFF bubble which is actually very important in 7th

Crazyterran wrote:
So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.

If price is your concern, let me tell you something: I've got just two games with my Stompa since December; one, a demonstration of Imperial Knights at the local GW, the other was a prearranged game to try out Escalation/Stronghold Assault with my pals -It wasn't all that fun so there's little chance we'll be repeating it in the future.

The Stompa is a relatively tame Superheavy, but by sheer bad luck it shares book with the broken abomination that is the Eldar titan. You'll find that, for most groups, Escalation is a big NO. And a superheavy isn't something I'll be bringing to a pick-up game at the store.

I know the difference in cost between Stompas and 'nauts is minimal, but one is a model you'll have no trouble fielding without user consent, the other is a pricey display piece.

Thats exactly what I agree with agent. While the prices are close, the fact that one is an apoc unit and the other is a basic heavy support choice is a huge difference.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
So, why buy a Morkanaut instead of a Stompa? I'm confused.

If price is your concern, let me tell you something: I've got just two games with my Stompa since December; one, a demonstration of Imperial Knights at the local GW, the other was a prearranged game to try out Escalation/Stronghold Assault with my pals -It wasn't all that fun so there's little chance we'll be repeating it in the future.

The Stompa is a relatively tame Superheavy, but by sheer bad luck it shares book with the broken abomination that is the Eldar titan. You'll find that, for most groups, Escalation is a big NO. And a superheavy isn't something I'll be bringing to a pick-up game at the store.

I know the difference in cost between Stompas and 'nauts is minimal, but one is a model you'll have no trouble fielding without user consent, the other is a pricey display piece.

Do you still need opponents consent for a stompa? Isnt it under the combined arms FOC now?

 Billagio wrote:
Do you still need opponents consent for a stompa? Isnt it under the combined arms FOC now?

Person 1: ...and here's my eldar titan, its in the FoC so you have to play against it.

Person 2: No, I don't. Goodbye.

You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.

There actually is a little blurb in the 7th Edition book that mentions that both players need to agree to what is and is not allowed before building their lists, meaning that you're well within your rights to say "No, I don't want to play with Lords of War."

Granted, it's no different from any other edition where you could...y'know...simply say "No, I don't want to play with Lords of War," but now there's an official rule about it, so there'sthat.

 Billagio wrote:
You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.

That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.

 Billagio wrote:
You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.

Yea you can say that about any unit but its far far less likely outside of Apoc units. I know if i went to a friendly game and someone plopped a titan down i would say "HELL NO" and give him the chance to edit his list, or i'll just walk away. However field anything outside apoc i'll give it a shot since even the Wraithknight spam is able to be countered with a casual list - i just suck at it lol.

I dont have a stompa sadly, if the rules are indeed in the normal ork codex now (given that pre-order, i wouldnt be surprised) i'll kitbash one just to say i got one and for the occasional big game i play. But, i'll probably field a couple 'Naughts just because its one of those things the orks are lacking - something incredibly durable. Aside from Tau bringing a fusion bomb or someone getting a lucky dice shot, it wont die that easily since its 5HP and not an opentopped. GL Glancing that to death too lol.

Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.

Goresaw wrote:
Flash gitz were always a unit who's greatest weaknesses were a) they were heavy support (competing against wagons and big gunz), b), no ride.

Both of these issues are fixed. I'm not sure if they're 'points' optimal, but they're definitely not an obvious 'pass' now.

I don't see their lack of armor as a big issue, because I think 90% of the time they will be riding in a battlewagon. (unless god forbid everyone's favorite unit goes up in price drastically).

Also I think with the new way the force org works, people will be taking a lot of Megabosses to give units slow and purposeful and tank for units. If the points remain similar, 100 points for a STR 10, T5, W3 +2 save dude with LD 10 will be a welcome sight in smaller, elite units, that otherwise are still schlepping around with LD7.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but theyre still HS.

Hopefully we get a look at the Mega Nobz variant in the next couple days.

 matphat wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.

That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.

That is true now, and will be for a while as a 6th edition hangover, but in 12 months you'll have plenty of peeps out there who only have played 7th and consider lords of war the equivalent of elites or fast attack - simply another an option for their army in the FoC. You sweepingly banning playing against all of them would be as daft as someone currently saying "sorry I refuse to play against any heavy support options."

Hi guys! I'm curious where anyone is getting the weapon stats or the vehicle stats for the Gork/morks. At the cost of sounding ignorant,is this just leaked info? Or I'd it from another book? If so, what book? I've play for years but never really kept up w/ the peripheral books (I.e. Where the stomps stats are etc). Any info would be fantastic! Thx in advance. Just started playing orks again after dropping them for the past couple years.

MaxT wrote:

 matphat wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
You could say that about any unit though. But I see your point.

That's hyperbole and you know it.
Yes, you could say that about any unit. However, if I try to play my Stompa in a regular game, and someone says "No", it makes sense, I understand, and I put it away because it's reasonable. But if I try to play 10 lootas in a squad and someone says "No", they look like a total dick, and I happily go play someone else, remembering never to play them again.

That is true now, and will be for a while as a 6th edition hangover, but in 12 months you'll have plenty of peeps out there who only have played 7th and consider lords of war the equivalent of elites or fast attack - simply another an option for their army in the FoC. You sweepingly banning playing against all of them would be as daft as someone currently saying "sorry I refuse to play against any heavy support options."

I dont think that it'll change at all. Fortifications were something that was introduced in 6th, and noone said 'im bringing an aegis' followed by someone else saying 'im not playing against you then' It just wasnt said. The apoc units are different. Much more powerful and imbalanced in a normal 40k game.

Sure, in tournaments you wont have a choice but play against it if someone brings it, but in a friendly game at home, or in a FLGS, you can say no to it, and i dont think that people saying no to it will change. They've been separate (apoc and normal) for 6 editions now, thats how it should stay unless agreed upon beforehand imo.

Edit: Just realised looking at the OP of the thread. There rumours on there for the flashgits seem to be 100% incorrect. So who knows what else may be incorrect on there...

"Flash Gitz
Weapons now have random range instead of random AP
New range is 12 + 3D6”. Triple 1 on range causes Overheat
Weapon upgrade options include +1Bs, +1 Attack, Blast, Skyfire "

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I... don't get how that contradicts what I said.

What I mean is that GW keeps inventing new units as opposed to updating existing models (translations from metal/failcast to plastic aside) and the only reason to do that is wanting to sell to veterans, who presumably already own all existing models. If GW really only targeted new players, they could just keep updating existing units. It's especially glaring in WHFB where some of the basic troops are ancient and horrible but don't get replaced.

You're trying to say that every release of GW's is aimed at veterans and you make the distinction of new "units" as opposed to new "models" when frankly the distinction doesn't matter. GW's standard operating procedure within their stores is to sell starter kits. It's what their staff are instructed to do. Beyond that is just a bonus, but they'd rather 20 kids buy a starter kit and drop the hobby next month (only to be replaced by another 20 kids and their starter kit) than one kid buy a starter kit and then buy something every other month for the next year.

Starter kit. One birthday. One Christmas.

That's the way it works.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.

The thing is, the 'naut will probably not shoot anything before turn 2-3, due to his slow speed. Once it shoots I don't think you'll get more than a turn or maybe 2 of shooting. That was my experience on the weekend when I proxied it, but maybe if you play more static armies you would have a better chance.

That's what I get with a dakkajet, nothing in turn 1, usually turn2-3 I arrive, get a turn (or 2) of shooting then it's over. that's why I drew a comparison. The Dakkajet ALSO draws fire, while the 'naut doesn't.
It's actually good that the dakkajet takes bullets in, it's that many bullets not in something else.

The dakkajet can be shot before it shoots, that's true, due to a dedicated unit with the right weapons (like your example with the Riptide), but in the same way, a few assault bike with multi-melta can drive up to the 'naut and blow it up in a turn before it even shot.

Greyhound wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Also per the dakkajet vs naught comparison, its a durability vs power thing. Dakkajets are AV10, and it is the sole reason that thing isnt broken as hell. If it was even AV11 front it would be dramatically more powerful because then the common troop couldnt force a jink save anymore (outside tau). If my dakkajets are alive and not firing snaps because i had to jink, either i got lucky as hell or you did something wrong. I will force planes to jink before i will try to kill them outside of my 1-2 units that can actually do it effectively, because thats a turn where that plane probably wont do jack squat.
This is why i bring a Riptide in my lists. Unless spammed they arent anywhere near as broken as people scream they are. I bring one because odds are you wont kill it and i will have at least 1 big gun throughout the game, whereas my broadsides or hammerheads can get sniped at a distance easily.

The thing is, the 'naut will probably not shoot anything before turn 2-3, due to his slow speed. Once it shoots I don't think you'll get more than a turn or maybe 2 of shooting. That was my experience on the weekend when I proxied it, but maybe if you play more static armies you would have a better chance.

That's what I get with a dakkajet, nothing in turn 1, usually turn2-3 I arrive, get a turn (or 2) of shooting then it's over. that's why I drew a comparison. The Dakkajet ALSO draws fire, while the 'naut doesn't.
It's actually good that the dakkajet takes bullets in, it's that many bullets not in something else.

The dakkajet can be shot before it shoots, that's true, due to a dedicated unit with the right weapons (like your example with the Riptide), but in the same way, a few assault bike with multi-melta can drive up to the 'naut and blow it up in a turn before it even shot.

Well with regards to the dakkajet (and you touched on it), anything with interceptor will likely bring it down before it can do anything useful. Interceptor units are usually things that have high strength, and its only AV10... So imo, while the naughts may be more cumbersome, i'd say theyre much more survivable (2 extra HP, 3 extra armour)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You're trying to say that every release of GW's is aimed at veterans and you make the distinction of new "units" as opposed to new "models" when frankly the distinction doesn't matter. GW's standard operating procedure within their stores is to sell starter kits. It's what their staff are instructed to do. Beyond that is just a bonus, but they'd rather 20 kids buy a starter kit and drop the hobby next month (only to be replaced by another 20 kids and their starter kit) than one kid buy a starter kit and then buy something every other month for the next year.

Starter kit. One birthday. One Christmas.

That's the way it works.

Then why does anything else even exist? If this assumed policy were true, it would make more sense to at least provide a variety of starters for multiple armies. Why release, say, Exocrines if not specifically for the veteran gamer? A little kid would be just as happy with a 10 year old Carnifex kit, he doesn't own one yet but we do so we need new releases to keep us buying.

I'll be the first to agree that GW are grossly incompetent, but I can't believe they're sinking 4-5 digit numbers into developing a dozen new model kits each year that they don't really plan to sell.

The comparison between a Naut and a Dakkajet isn't even worth making. They serve completely different purposes in a game, especially if you're taking a Morkanaut (which, if people take either, is probably going to be the one seen more often).

We were just comparing the dakka on the 'naut.

Or at least I was. I don't rate the Deffstorm, as Deffly at all, and it's not a storm.

The dakkajet has a similar ST, high rate of fire weapon and can target the same units as the Deffstorm and land much more deff than this glorfied Big shoota.

Agree, the Gorkanaut is pretty underwhelming. No option for KFF, and shooting you can get anywhere in the codex. Rampage is nice, but AV13, 5 S10 attacks plus S8 hammer of wrath should already settle most fights - unless fighting a T6+/EW MC or character, in which case rampage wouldn't apply anyways.

Plus if you make a Mork, you can convert the extra Gork bitz into artillery/vehicle-mounted gunz Somewhat alleviates the high sticker price of the model, and if there's an Ork player who doesn't get into at least a little kitbashing I don't want to meet him (every single one of my HQ and Big Gunz have been built from scratch, including KFF and SAG)