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2014/06/02 14:42:55
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
Delevarius wrote: I was thinking about the firepower per points of the Gorkanaut in comparison to the Landraider Crusader (since it serves a similar purpose) and the Battlewagon full of shoota boyz (current rendition) so I did some mathhammering
Battlewagon
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str 5]
+ open topped : 39 Shootas (13 hits) [str4]
17 hits total
265 points (245 without the Big Shootas)
(woulnd comparisons are against T4 targets, which imo is the target these units (t3-t4 infantry) are supposed to be aiming for)
so the Gorkanaut has a comparable Dakka to the crusader landraider, doing more hits at long range, and less at rapid fire range. But the Gorkanaut weapons are higher strength so even at rapidfire range, the gorkanaut still almost equal production of woulnds on average (0.47 woulnds in favor of the Crusader)
Compared to a ShootaWagon the Gorkanaut firepower is lessened, since a Shoota wagon, even without the big shootas, produces more woulnds then the Gorkanaut (0.8 more on average. The advantage of the Shootawagon goes up when Big Shootas are added (2.14 more woulnds on average)
But again the Gorkanaut weapons have higher str, so his weapons gives him more flexibility
So overall the Gorkanaut is quite comparable to his counterparts in firepower, even outshining them in some aspects
Well, averages are fairly irrelevant to mathhammer, as the game is at best 6 turns long (and most units are on the table even less).
Thus measures such as variance (or std. deviation), range and other measures of the spread would be far more important to determine the "worth" of a unit, unless you're games last 100+ turns or something along those lines.
Battlewagon + 10 Flash Gits (as seen in WD leak):
4 Big Shootas : 12 shots (4 hits) [str5]
+ open topped : 30 Snazzguns (10 or 15 hits) [str5]
14/19 hits total (moving/stationary)
330 points
So Gorkanaut does 5.69 wounds to T4 (1.90 MEQ killed)
Crusader does 3.41 or 6.07 wounds (1.14 or 2.02 MEQ killed)
Shootawagon does 9.17 wounds (3.06 MEQ killed)
Morkanaut does 4.30 wounds (2.82 MEQ killed)
Flash Git wagon is 9.33 or 12.66 wounds (4.89 or 6.22 MEQ killed)
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2014/06/02 14:55:36
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/02 14:56:59
PhillyT wrote: Yeah, the model isn't a top shelf choice from a pure competitive sense, but so what? Are we really at that point? Granted, the price makes it a struggle given its competitiveness, but it is a must have for a true irk walker fan.
No, the point is, if I can field two of any other unit I like a lot, then why would I field this instead. Sure, it's Orky and awesome looking, but I'd rather have more kans, dreds, big gunz, or battle wagons than one of those.
2014/06/02 15:00:16
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
There is a discrepancy between the WD text and the table listings of the G/M-naughts. In the text they say that the (2) rokkit launchas are TL, whereas the TL entry is not listed in the tables. The models themselves seem to have the rokkits in pairs perhaps suggesting they are TL...although that may be completely irrelevant. While the overall conclusion wouldn't be substantially changed, having (2) TL rokkit launchas would certainly help.
All Orks is equal, but some Orks are more equal dan' uvvas!
2014/06/02 15:08:30
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Thanks
SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
Karl Hammer wrote: There is a discrepancy between the WD text and the table listings of the G/M-naughts. In the text they say that the (2) rokkit launchas are TL, whereas the TL entry is not listed in the tables. The models themselves seem to have the rokkits in pairs perhaps suggesting they are TL...although that may be completely irrelevant. While the overall conclusion wouldn't be substantially changed, having (2) TL rokkit launchas would certainly help.
That's interesting. Maybe we shouldn't rely so hard on the KFF nerf before we see the actual codex. After all, there's still hope...
PhillyT wrote: Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
If the turkey take out my loota's in the BW, he can shoot the boys at leisure.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/06/02 15:26:25
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
zammerak wrote: Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Thanks
a bit more problematic since blast weapons are much harder to calculate due to having much more variables to hit
(1/3 chance for direct hit, random direction scater, random distance [2d6-2 in this case, averaging on 5 in], and then you have to account for density of models in the area, that is very situational)
if an average Ork scatter happens on a large blast that has a 5 in diameter, it will basicaly flip in the scater direction, missing all the models in the original target area
2014/06/02 15:38:00
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
I would guess that a direct hit would be about 5 models at standard spacing (usually 1.5" at normal deployment (most people don't use full unit coherency distance)).
Not sure about scatter.
Oh da grand ol' Duke of Ork
'e 'ad ten fousand boyz.
'E marched 'em up to da top ov da hill
an den dey made some noise!
An wen dey woz up dey woz up!
An wen dey woz loud dey woz loud!
An wen dey woz both up an loud
dey made all da grots go deff!
2014/06/02 15:44:42
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
PhillyT wrote: Ignored in all of that is the fact that neither Naut is really a shooting model. They are more like the knights. They can contribute to the shooting phase, but they are priced with the expectation that they will charge something.
PhillyT wrote: I generally do that with my wagons. The templates hitting guys inside isn't too big a deal though, since that means most of the time, whoever vented the template is within charge range of other boyz or will be shot to bits (torrent weapons still need to be within charge range).
I like the model and can see it being fun, which really is the point. An incredibly durable CC machine that demands attention. Lets the rest of the army move in without taking as much fire.
Try charging the hell turkey.
If the best the turkey can do is put that template down on wagons, then the battle is probably yours to win anyway.
If the turkey take out my loota's in the BW, he can shoot the boys at leisure.
He only averages 2 - 3 wounds per pass on anything in a transport.
Squidbot wrote: Just heard, from a source of dubious reliability, that there will be three editions of the codex:
Standard
Limited
Warboss
Claiming that Warboss will be a super limited edition, similar to Munitorium 7th edition.
I stand by every piece of info I have given you guys to this point, as 100% definite.
This, though, I have no idea, and it is fishy as a cats breath.
That said; I'd totally buy a super deluxe Warboss cardboard box, because I'm a sucker for anything Orky :(
They must be really short of money
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/06/02 15:59:47
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
I think it's more likely that someone got their lines crossed and the limited edition version (Which I expect will happen) is called the Warboss edition, and not a whole different edition.
2014/06/02 16:15:11
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
zammerak wrote: Can someone do the math comparing the Mega Dread with the new walkers? 175pts for an av 13 13 11 with a 5+ inv, has 2 big shootas and either a kill kannon (str 7 ap3 large blast) or a "Supa Skorcha" Str 6 ap3 template) and it has a rippa klaw 3 attacks base 4 on the charge s10 ap2 with sunder (re roll armor pen result if you dont like it) I can take 2 for 350 pts. Is that better for killing MEQ?
Im at work and dont have the time or meterials to do all the stats.
Thanks
a bit more problematic since blast weapons are much harder to calculate due to having much more variables to hit
(1/3 chance for direct hit, random direction scater, random distance [2d6-2 in this case, averaging on 5 in], and then you have to account for density of models in the area, that is very situational)
if an average Ork scatter happens on a large blast that has a 5 in diameter, it will basicaly flip in the scater direction, missing all the models in the original target area
Good point, moving away from mathhammer for a moment, bassed on what had been discussed which option is better for killing meq point for point? The 175pt mega dread or the girkamorkanaught for 250+? (Not sure the exact pts for the naught)
SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
Squidbot wrote: If it's even true. Even the SPAAAACE MEHREEEEEEENZZZ didn't get something like that.
Ya, no stupid humies no epic book. I'd be tempted to buy it myself. Deciding between that or more flash gitz
Gitz! The ork book could be replaced in 2 years with 8th edition or a new codex rendering it slightly worthless. The gitz however are still a cool model that can be used as xyz if they get nerfed in the next book.
SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
Squidbot wrote: If it's even true. Even the SPAAAACE MEHREEEEEEENZZZ didn't get something like that.
Ya, no stupid humies no epic book. I'd be tempted to buy it myself. Deciding between that or more flash gitz
Gitz! The ork book could be replaced in 2 years with 8th edition or a new codex rendering it slightly worthless. The gitz however are still a cool model that can be used as xyz if they get nerfed in the next book.
This every time.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
2014/06/02 16:22:37
Subject: Re:Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
ClockworkZion wrote: So the question of what Orks call Tau came up earlier, and according to Engine of Mork (which I just finished reading) the answer is "Slashfaces".
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
2014/06/02 16:30:25
Subject: Re:Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
ClockworkZion wrote: So the question of what Orks call Tau came up earlier, and according to Engine of Mork (which I just finished reading) the answer is "Slashfaces".
I love Engine of Mork. It really shows how Orks can be written well, and not just mindless brutes. One of these days I'll finish my Ork fan fiction and Black Library will publish it. Shut up, I can dream.
I never heard of it until this thread. I'm glad I did though. Deff Skwadron is good too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/02 16:34:09
2014/06/02 16:32:00
Subject: Ork rumours - First post updated 31th May
20,000 
New and Growing 
1000
