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kb305 wrote:
looking at the one guy in the 360 maybe you can help me out. did putting that cable into the squid turn it into a targeting computer somehow? is he holding those two giant shells with his teeth? (i cant really figure out what the hell is supposed to be going on there). he has a double gun and another gun attached to those guns that drags on the ground behind him and shoots backwards? or does his weapon double as a leaf blower and that part just puts out exhaust, again i cant really figure out what the hell is going on there. Why does he hold his sword out when firing that giant weapon? he looks like he's dressed for halloween, did the orcs just finish trickortreating?

-It's a homage to the targeting squigs the old models had.
-The spent shells are coming out of the guns ejection port and just happen to be in front of his face for the angle of the shot.
-Those are exhaust ports for the gun's engine, not gun barrels. The handle you can't see that attaches to the side of the gun looks like a motorcycle's handlebar.
-Freebooters use a pirate motif, and flashgits tend to be freebooters. Hence why Badrukk looks like a pirate aswell.

Serious business.

Looked over the math. I'm going to have to say I'm in the camp that wants the kit in order to paint up the models (and do a bit of conversion on a box of nobs--I'll need to buy more 40mm bases--will all nobs be rebased on 40mm?).

Seeing as how Badrukk is going to be discussed tomorrow, I'm curious if that means that there is new GW model for him or if they're just going to go with the old FW model already out.

kb305 wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
People don't like the Flash Gitz?? Am I looking at the same models? They got more Gubbinz than you can shake a squig at!

I dont care for them personally. they look stupid even by orc standards.

looking at the one guy in the 360 maybe you can help me out. did putting that cable into the squid turn it into a targeting computer somehow? is he holding those two giant shells with his teeth? (i cant really figure out what the hell is supposed to be going on there). he has a double gun and another gun attached to those guns that drags on the ground behind him and shoots backwards? or does his weapon double as a leaf blower and that part just puts out exhaust, again i cant really figure out what the hell is going on there. Why does he hold his sword out when firing that giant weapon? he looks like he's dressed for halloween, did the orcs just finish trickortreating?

probably since im over the age of 8 i am not that impressed.

If you want realistic guns and 'science fiction' in your 40k, the Tau thread is that way ->

In the meantime, us Ork players will chill here and ponder ways to add even more dakka to dem loony gits

kb305 wrote:

probably since im over the age of 8 i am not that impressed.

I'm sure we can find you some toys for 9 year olds that you will enjoy.

Whoops.

Leerjawise wrote:

Regardless, Killa Kans won't go to fast attack, they aren't exactly speedy.

Killa Kans are/were already Fast Attack as per the Dread Mob rules in Imperial Armour 8.

From http://grotorderly.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/plota-na-myn-rumour-mill-ork-mega-gun.html?m=1 :

Welcome!

Today I got a bit of news for you that you will drop your pants down. This time my little Grot didn't take any photos, just used his big brain to memorize stuff, so... him being a Grot, take it with a pinch of salt, but knowing how close we are to the release: don't take too much. Anyhow, this weekend (13th June) we will see a new model of Big Mek model (as I wrote couple posts below) with Shokk Attack Gun. The model will be 100% plastic and will cost us 20 pounds / 35 dollars. Additionally we will get a new artillery unit. A Ork Mek Gun with six Gretchin crew. From the parts in the box we will be able to make Smasha Gun, Traktor Kannon, Bubble Chukka, Mega-Kannon. We don't know anything more about it, but I can guess this will swap the old artillery kits. Price: 25 pounds / 38 dollars.

Remember, you heard it first here! And all hail the Grot who brought the news!

I have hard time believing that GW would fully phase out the old Big Guns by giving them whole new weapons. Though maybe it's going to be a dual kit Big Gunz / Mek Gunz

The fact they're called mek gunz makes me think they're actually a separate entry in the book now and that there may even be a variant kit later for less techy guns.

 ergotoxin wrote:
I have hard time believing that GW would fully phase out the old Big Guns by giving them whole new weapons. Though maybe it's going to be a dual kit Big Gunz / Mek Gunz

Perhaps the old big guns are staying, and these are new bigger big guns. Sort of like the Wraithlord/Wraitknight issue.

It makes perfect sense to me. GW obviously sees the many alternate big guns out there from 3rd party companies, so in response... Go back to the old epic models with new rules and give a big "screw you" to third party guys. Same reason I think looted wagons will be gone. Even though GW gets additional sales when Ork players buy a rhino or basilisk, it irks them so much more when they notice people using non-GW stuff in the game.

 ergotoxin wrote:
From http://grotorderly.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/plota-na-myn-rumour-mill-ork-mega-gun.html?m=1 :

Welcome!

Today I got a bit of news for you that you will drop your pants down. This time my little Grot didn't take any photos, just used his big brain to memorize stuff, so... him being a Grot, take it with a pinch of salt, but knowing how close we are to the release: don't take too much. Anyhow, this weekend (13th June) we will see a new model of Big Mek model (as I wrote couple posts below) with Shokk Attack Gun. The model will be 100% plastic and will cost us 20 pounds / 35 dollars. Additionally we will get a new artillery unit. A Ork Mek Gun with six Gretchin crew. From the parts in the box we will be able to make Smasha Gun, Traktor Kannon, Bubble Chukka, Mega-Kannon. We don't know anything more about it, but I can guess this will swap the old artillery kits. Price: 25 pounds / 38 dollars.

Remember, you heard it first here! And all hail the Grot who brought the news!

I have hard time believing that GW would fully phase out the old Big Guns by giving them whole new weapons. Though maybe it's going to be a dual kit Big Gunz / Mek Gunz

Dude. One plastic infantry mini for $35, or a big gun kit that can make 4 variant weapons, plus 6 grot crew, for $38. I think I'll go with the big gun kit...

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

Oh brother....

The maths that have been presented were competent for what they were. There's no need to use such a condescending tone to flame others.

Competent for "what they were"?

If they were intended to provide any useful insights for a game such as Warhammer 40K, no they weren't competent.

If they had a different purpose I was not aware of, I apologize.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I'm pretty terrible at math myself but the numbers presented made sense to me, and clearly illustrated that flash gitz aren't very effective for their cost in comparison to another, similarly-costed unit with the same role in the same codex.

If he made some error when doing said math then I'll leave that for someone smarter than myself to point out, but in any case I'd agree that your tone was entirely unnecessary and probably even breaking Rule #1.

Not to speak for Zweishneid, or to judge his intent, but I interpreted him as wishing to demonstrate the confounding way statistics and averages can lie to us while at the same time telling us the truth.

"The average American has only one testicle".

This statement is or is very close to being statistically true, but can be oddly deceptive if taken purely at face value.

 ergotoxin wrote:
From the parts in the box we will be able to make Smasha Gun, Traktor Kannon, Bubble Chukka, Mega-Kannon.

Sounds good to me.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

Dude. One plastic infantry mini for $35, or a big gun kit that can make 4 variant weapons, plus 6 grot crew, for $38. I think I'll go with the big gun kit...

Seeing as the old SAG was $40, a plastic, possibly better looking one for $35 isn't too bad a difference.

At this point I'd find it hard not to buy a "More Dakka Prime" supplement full of vehicles and guns at some point down the road...
I still think it would be reasonable to expect a truk and battle wagon upgrade sprue , like the Deff Rolla upgrade Sprue.
A looted Wagon made out of a Waggon.. Why not.

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

Dude. One plastic infantry mini for $35, or a big gun kit that can make 4 variant weapons, plus 6 grot crew, for $38. I think I'll go with the big gun kit...

Seeing as the old SAG was $40, a plastic, possibly better looking one for $35 isn't too bad a difference.

Yes. If I do decide to expand my orks beyond my current force in addition to getting the nex codex, the plastic SAG is first on my list. My old metal one is still only half assembled it's so annoying to work with.

 Zweischneid wrote:
snip

Blah blah blah meaningless drivel.

You can do a more in depth analysis and find that the results are pretty much the same as the quick averages calculation because the number of shots is similar, so if the means are close the standard deviation will be reasonably close as well as it's a binomial distribution. Assuming those quick calcs were correct (I didn't check) then there's nothing wrong with them. The difference only really happens when you have a dude with 4 shots who has the same average as the unit with 40 shots, then the variation in std dev makes more of a difference.

I don't disagree that calculating more in depth statistics is useful, but in this case, the more in depth calculations will yield the same result as the quick calcs. The only other factor is things like the range and that getting 4 small bases in LOS and range to fire is probably harder than 1 larger base.

EDIT: Also, your graph centers on 100 with 2 different std dev, most things relevant to 40k tend to peak close to 0, if you plotted similar curves for a binomial distribution peaking nearer to 0, the differences wouldn't be as significant (you'd still have a high chance of 0 successes and then the one with more shots would simply have a longer tail of better but unlikely results.

 Dicrel Seijin wrote:
Looked over the math. I'm going to have to say I'm in the camp that wants the kit in order to paint up the models (and do a bit of conversion on a box of nobs--I'll need to buy more 40mm bases--will all nobs be rebased on 40mm?).

Seeing as how Badrukk is going to be discussed tomorrow, I'm curious if that means that there is new GW model for him or if they're just going to go with the old FW model already out.

Ummm...That's not a FW model:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ork-Kaptin-Badrukk

IF the cost for the big guns is really $38 for a single gun, that will be a big no thank you from me. I MIGHT get one to kit bash special weapons for trukk guns using the IA8 rules, but that is it.

Big guns, unless they change the rules significantly, are not worth $38 on the table top. You need so many that the cost will be prohibitive. I was hoping for a three model kit at $60.

 PhillyT wrote:
IF the cost for the big guns is really $38 for a single gun, that will be a big no thank you from me. I MIGHT get one to kit bash special weapons for trukk guns using the IA8 rules, but that is it.

Big guns, unless they change the rules significantly, are not worth $38 on the table top. You need so many that the cost will be prohibitive. I was hoping for a three model kit at $60.

IF (and thats a big if), the rumor is true, then the guns we have seen do not replace the old zzap/lobba/kannon, but supplement them.

This would make sense to me, because the old guns were not all that big, and intended to be fielded as a battery. The new guns we have seen are much larger; so large, in fact, that I was personally incredulous that they were actually new zzap/lobba/kannon pieces. A battery of three would be huge!

Now, if they are actually the "old school" guns (bubble chukkas and the like) that would be great, because it would bring those back to the game, and those guns had much more 'impact' on a game than the shooting from a single heavy weapon. I'm not going to speculate on how the mechanics would work in this edition, but larger models makes sense to me for those types of guns. They are more analogous to a Wyvern or Griffin than a lascannon or mortar, and so, can have more complicated rules than say, a lascannon or heavy bolter.

Yeah, at first glance I thought the new big gunz must have more significant rules because they are much more sugnificant models. If they are similar to the old big gunz in rules then they are a pretty bad deal though.

That would be cool, though in the pictures we have seen, they are a battery of three!

And what will they do with the old big guns? Unless there is another kit coming, they will likely be removed from the codex.

It says six grot crew therfore I expect it will be three platforms with two grots each plus the mek and one spare big gun per box.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yeah, at first glance I thought the new big gunz must have more significant rules because they are much more sugnificant models. If they are similar to the old big gunz in rules then they are a pretty bad deal though.

I don't know, following the rules for Artillery wouldn't be that bad. T7 is decent against Shooting at least.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PhillyT wrote:
That would be cool, though in the pictures we have seen, they are a battery of three!

No, what we saw was 3 models next to each other. We have no proof that they were a battery.

 Gargskull wrote:
It says six grot crew therfore I expect it will be three platforms with two grots each plus the mek and one spare big gun per box.

The current Killa Kan kit barely gets all three on the sprues with very little left over. Given how similar the chassis of the three guns we have seen are, I would imagine the kit builds one gun, with 4 options included, plus the grot gunners and some spare bling (which seems to be GW's current kit style), rather than three guns, each with a different weapon and a 4th left over (how the current killa kan kit is now).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
That would be cool, though in the pictures we have seen, they are a battery of three!

No, what we saw was 3 models next to each other. We have no proof that they were a battery.

I'd say there's a pretty good chance of them being a squadron 1-3, if they're not a battery. Which, (uugghh) means they could have AV. An ork version of the IG artillery.

However, what we saw were 3 new models, each with a different weapon, so we can take some comfort in the possibility that they were separate units simply put next to one another.

Reading it again it doesn't say the mek is included which certainly lends more credence to it being one gun platform per box but I don't understand why it would need six grots.

 Gargskull wrote:
Reading it again it doesn't say the mek is included which certainly lends more credence to it being one gun platform per box but I don't understand why it would need six grots.

If it's artillery, that'd be the crew.

If it is one per box then it's won't be hard to use the spare guns to build 3 extra of your own

especially with the size of the carriage they are on fitting in very well with a huge range of kids toys with outsized wheels plus a bit of plasticard

so I'd almost prefer 1 for $38 than 3 for $60

 Gargskull wrote:
Reading it again it doesn't say the mek is included which certainly lends more credence to it being one gun platform per box but I don't understand why it would need six grots.

I think I've missed something, what are you reading again?

- forget it I found it.