Ork rumours - First post updated 20th June

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**decker_cky**

streamdragon wrote:
Melcavuk wrote:

Eavy armour dropped by a point (to 4) but thats it

Eavy armor was already 4 points for Boyz, did it drop a point for nobz and bosses?

He was answering a question for Nob units, so it at least dropped for them.

**Mumblez**

I still feel the new codex will be alright. I'll either just run the special formation or a different horde based force. Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

**PhillyT**

matphat wrote:
I'm personally very underwhelmed by the new painboy and the new mek. The mek seems very uninspired, and the painboy is just a pretty terrible sculpt. I'm pretty sure I could kitbash something MUCH more to my liking for both.

Also, the Eavy Metal team has really been pulling back on the quality of their paint jobs. Both are almost as bad as what I do.

XD

What were you looking for on the mek boy? They are what they are.

I can see people not liking the Painboy. I like him, but I can see others no enjoying him.

GW paint jobs have never been the best out there, but they are consistent and clean. I think what I dislike about them is that they are almost "plastic" like too far down the clean line. Look at the AM ogryn models for a good example of the plastic look.

I love forge world paint jobs with lots of weathering, but I can see where many people who aren't familiar with the game would see that as a "bad" paint job and not appreciate the talent required to get those looks.

**Toburk**

I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

**mondry**

BooBoo wrote:
so what are the new mek gunz doing? the one is supposed to be lifta droppa, the anti air sounds like similar randomness, kmc is sr8? bubble chukka?

You can purchase the older Big Gunz (Kannon, Lobba, Zzap) for 18 pts per Gun, they come with two grots, may purchase extra grots and an ammo runt.
The new Mek Gunz are as follows (30 pts each):
All have 36" Range.
Bubble Chucka: SP/AP D6. Heavy 1, Large Blast. (you roll once for S and AP).
Smasha Gun: SP D6+ 4, AP 1, Heavy 1.
Traktor Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Skyfire, Traktor (auto immobilizes regardless of other effects and FMC have to test Ground Tests at -3 if they suffer any wounds)
Kustom Mega Kannon: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Blast, Gets Hot.

hmm, kinda think i'd just roll with lootas over those new kannons. Bubble Chucka is way too random for me, and do you just roll 1 d6 for it's strength too, if so uggg? The KMK is kinda nice when it comes to killing marines but i think the lootas would be quite a bit more versatile. That leaves the smasha gun and it's primary advantage over lootas is the chance to get 8,9, or 10 strength with ap1 so clearly better against armor 13/14 and exploding vehicles if you can manage to roll high. The Traktor Kannon, obviously better than lootas against some of the higher armor flyers / MC's

The problem is, unless you're building a list to counter your buddies and you know he's bringing 2 land raiders or 3 beefy flyers, they're just too specialized. The lootas to me just feel better against everything each specific mek gun doesn't specifically "hard counter".

And maybe I'm crazy but I feel like the Traktor Kannon is just as good as the KMK, but also shoots air better. Okay you give up small blast for skyfire, traktor, and not having Gets Hot!

I actually feel like these could be like the old Kannon and have like two types of shells to make them more versatile depending on what you need.

What do you guys think? Are they better than I'm giving them credit?

**PhillyT**

Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

**Deunstephe**

PhillyT wrote:
Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

Grotsnik and the Painboy with grot orderly are still available, so multiples problem solved.

I agree with PhillyT on the model production, it's probably more about the torso detail than poseability, but IMO with technology these days the new painboy should be like the mek, with a swappable head and arms instead of being monopose. At least with the SAG mek and the Mekboy you can pose them somewhat, or use them in a conversion.

**NamelessBard**

Kromlech also makes a nice Doc model.

**Kosake**

One question please.

Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

**nflagey**

Deunstephe wrote:
PhillyT wrote:
Toburk wrote:
I don't mind the painboy, except for the grot on his back. However, it's defiantly not a model you would want duplicates of in a single army.

Does anyone have experience with model production? How much cheaper is it for them to make the monopose plastic characters rather than allow for pose-ability and a bit of variety right out of the box?

I agree about multiples.

I don't think it is any different really. You can see the arms are posable still on the mek, and interchangeable.

I think it is a choice based on wanting to have a more complicated and detailed torso component than anything else.

Grotsnik and the Painboy with grot orderly are still available, so multiples problem solved.

I agree with PhillyT on the model production, it's probably more about the torso detail than poseability, but IMO with technology these days the new painboy should be like the mek, with a swappable head and arms instead of being monopose. At least with the SAG mek and the Mekboy you can pose them somewhat, or use them in a conversion.

Agree with that too. The Dok looks too original, almost like an independent character. I like it, but it does not fit as well as the previous model or Mad Dok. The pose and the lack of extra bits do not help either.
The Mek on the other side fits very well and seems to be based on the same type of arms and head as most Orks. So easy to make a few of them, looking not exactly the same.

**BooBoo**

One question please.
Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

According to Melcavuk, they retain all their mix from the previous Codex. So yes, the weapon swap is free and it is a Twin Rokkit, the Kopta keeps its two wounds, its 4+ save, its jetbike status, profile, and may purchase Buzzsaws and those Bombs whose name I can't remember right now. Don't know if they mantain its unit size (1-5) and if they keep Hit and Run and Scout.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
TableTopJosh wrote:
forgotten ghosts wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Armor 14 is not that common we don't need a lot of ways to deal with Iit, and at least not spamable ways. I thinks orks ran more armor 14 than any one else with BW spam.

AV 14 is the province of the space marine land raider, in all its incarnations, across all it's various chapters and types, in the most popular armies there are.

I don't know where you're gaming but back in the UK I attended a tourney on about 30 tables and counted 20 land raiders. Whilst the land raider is just one entry, once you factor in how many books it's in, variants of it and how popular it is, with the addition of the durability of vehicles in 7th getting a sizable boost, those land raiders will be in full effect, being able to take out AV14 is important.

And the necron monolith, which may well be back in effect with the same vehicle rules. But regardless, AV14 exists and every other race has the means to conquer it at range and you're claiming a base to base weapon that might take it out is overpowered...

Our own AV14 is only front armor, the tank is AV13 and vulnerable to an array of enemy guns.

Are you an actual ork player?

**Melcavuk**

BooBoo wrote:

One question please.
Deffcoptas are now 30 flat and can change weapons for free. Do they still get a TL rokkit launcha? What about other upgrades? My flyin boars skwadron needs to know his rules of engagement...

According to Melcavuk, they retain all their mix from the previous Codex. So yes, the weapon swap is free and it is a Twin Rokkit, the Kopta keeps its two wounds, its 4+ save, its jetbike status, profile, and may purchase Buzzsaws and those Bombs whose name I can't remember right now. Don't know if they mantain its unit size (1-5) and if they keep Hit and Run and Scout.

Correct, thanks.

And yes 1-5 in a squad

**BooBoo**

Thanks to you Melcavuk, you're da man!!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question regarding the last issue:

Do Dethkoptas keep the Hit and Run and Scout rules?

**Mr.Omega**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
TableTopJosh wrote:
forgotten ghosts wrote:
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
So from what i have read they have taken the old over powered units that were auto include and toned them down.
.
They took the lesser used units or underpowered ones and beefed them up.
Now the units are balanced to themselves. Which more of the book viable. Tournament players won't like this since now not one unit stands out as OP over the rest and no clear choice for the auto include death star unit.
And the death roller was op, to think other wise I feel is silly. D6 str 10 hits on spammed battle wagons. No Ned to roll to him just move through units.
Biker nobs, the KFF and the BW death roller spam needed the nerf bat. This is coming from an ork tourny player.
I saw the KFF nerf coming having effect the hole unit as long as one model was with in 6 was silly.

i agree with all of that. if this if the trend for the future of 40k i think it will be more fun than ever, every one was trashin 7th, i have enjoyed the new missions.

How OP exactly were Biker Nobs? A biker nob list hasnt been that competitve since six edition hit. They nerfed a lot of peoples favorite unit for no reason. Just because it was one of the strongest units in the codex is a gakky reason to nerf them.

It was obviously one of the strongest units, which is my point. Certain units stood out as stronger than the rest. Now until we actually get to play the dex, we can't say "x" unit is strong now, since they all seem viable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Biker nobs were an elite T5, W2, 4+cover, 5++ and 5+ fnp death star unit able to be taken as a troop choice. The nerf was coming. Oh and they move 12" and have twin liked S5 guns.

We need to talk.

The deff rolla was one of two viable options we had for dealing with AV14, along with a PK equipped warboss. Both of these required you get them to their intended target. As to using them on targets other than, everyone got armor saves. Those with poor armor saves had weight of numbers vs the single d6.
It was in no way whatsoever 'broken', it also cost a lot of points.

The codex was what, 6 years old, older? In that time, many other codices have been done, the 'power' has crept up considerably. So when you take our best and make it worse and worst and bring it to the downgraded 'best', you end up with a lower mean capability on a codex that was already totally outgunned. You end up with an antiquated beige army that can't match the more recent codices it will be facing.

It required no nerfing, no downgrading, it was already showing its age more than a bit. Readjusting balance in a book a couple of years old is one thing, taking something this old and upping point costs and reducing capabilities was ridiculous. We should have seen boosts, inclusion and capability, instead we saw a very old book slightly adjusted, overfilled in slots and generally made less effective.

With the removal of the ability to make certain units troops we've lost options, not gained them. We didn't need our units 'balanced to themselves', we needed our army balanced to the rest of the armies.

Armor 14 is not that common we don't need a lot of ways to deal with Iit, and at least not spamable ways. I thinks orks ran more armor 14 than any one else with BW spam.

AV 14 is the province of the space marine land raider, in all its incarnations, across all it's various chapters and types, in the most popular armies there are.

I don't know where you're gaming but back in the UK I attended a tourney on about 30 tables and counted 20 land raiders. Whilst the land raider is just one entry, once you factor in how many books it's in, variants of it and how popular it is, with the addition of the durability of vehicles in 7th getting a sizable boost, those land raiders will be in full effect, being able to take out AV14 is important.

And the necron monolith, which may well be back in effect with the same vehicle rules. But regardless, AV14 exists and every other race has the means to conquer it at range and you're claiming a base to base weapon that might take it out is overpowered...

Our own AV14 is only front armor, the tank is AV13 and vulnerable to an array of enemy guns.

Are you an actual ork player?

20 Land Raiders on 30 tables?

Disclaimer: No offence intended

I can distinctly remember two times I saw a Land Raider at a tournament. On Saturday, wherein a guy with a CSM army had a barebones one in an army that was flawed in every dimension, lost all the games it played and only existed to transport a unit of Khorne Berserkers, and back at the very, very start of 6th in a Vulkan Salamander build.

I'd say not including the one I went to last weekend, I've been to about 6-7 tournaments wherein I'm extracting that sort of observation. I expect there might have been 1 or 2 more if I really thought about it but really, what planet are you living on.

Who even uses Monoliths? The only real AV14 threat that is common place now is the Leman Russ, and that will die to anything that can reach it in assault, has AV13 side armour and only 3 HP. Still an issue, but I'd imagine there are plenty ways to plan for AV14.

If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan.

**PhillyT**

Land raiders have been great in 7th.

**Mr.Omega**

PhillyT wrote:
Land raiders have been great in 7th.

They're still absurdly overcosted in terms of firepower and its still almost completely impractical to run two of them because doing so would wreck your list structure, unless you're doing 2k, or possibly 1850 - though the effect would still be noticeable in the latter with passengers. Even fielding one doesn't do list structure and effectiveness any favours because you're still investing a crap ton of points into something that some armies will annihilate without breaking a sweat regardless, leaving a gaping hole in your rock-paper-scissors list.

See : Astra Militarum, , anyone with Meltas, Dark Eldar and normal Eldar just for starters

Only exception might be the Deathwing invinci-Land Raider but lets face it Dark Angels by this point are a bit of a joke

PhillyT wrote:
Why are dark angels a joke? You seem to have a pretty restrictive impression of what is good.

I like crusaders and redeemers. Regular ones aren't very good though.

I would debate this through with you but I wouldn't want to drive this off-topic, the answer to this question can be found pretty easily if you look around

**TableTopJosh**

How many points did the lootas go down?

**PhillyT**

Why are dark angels a joke? You seem to have a pretty restrictive impression of what is good.

I like crusaders and redeemers. Regular ones aren't very good though.

**Formosa**

Mr.Omega wrote:
PhillyT wrote:
Land raiders have been great in 7th.

They're still absurdly overcosted in terms of firepower and its still almost completely impractical to run two of them because doing so would wreck your list structure, unless you're doing 2k, or possibly 1850 - though the effect would still be noticeable in the latter with passengers. Even fielding one doesn't do list structure and effectiveness any favours because you're still investing a crap ton of points into something that some armies will annihilate without breaking a sweat regardless, leaving a gaping hole in your rock-paper-scissors list.

See : Astra Militarum, , anyone with Meltas, Dark Eldar and normal Eldar just for starters

Only exception might be the Deathwing invinci-Land Raider but lets face it Dark Angels by this point are a bit of a joke

Don't insult my mega over powered dark angels you hippie cuddling high five artist!! I know origami man, don't mess with me!!!

**Da Butcha**

Clang wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
These damn Meks and the new Painboys are monopose and they don't have a Kustom Forcefield on the sprue.

Spoiler:

Ta for the sprue pics, hadn't seen them before.

Yes, mono-pose is disappointing, although at least head/arm swaps are easy. And bulking up that mek backpack into a KFF wouldn't be hard.

My biggest complaint is the high price, given they're one tiny sprue with no alternate parts (not even a choice of heads) other than one mek arm swap.

At least the Mek sculptor had the respect for Ork players to make the head and arms compatible with other ork sprues. I don't HATE the sculpt of the painboy (although it looks too 'unique' to me to be a regular generic painboy), but it really irritates me that we have an army where most of the sculptors have taken PAINS to make most of the stuff cross compatible, and then this guy releases this. Thanks loads. Would it have killed you to make a less 'unique' sculpt which had compatible arms and head options to make it easy to create a painboy on bike? Weaksauce.

**Bonzofever**

OK, I just can't sleep tonight because I'm worried about one thing. It's killing me. Really.

Do we have to stick to the special Ork FOC with a minimum of 3 Troop choices?
Or can we play just like any other army and possibly field two separate detachments with only 2 mandatory Troops to get extra HS slots?

Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

**PhillyT**

Mal already said you can just use the regular FOC if you want. The special one is optional.

**Toburk**

Bonzofever wrote:
Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

Pretty much everything with a rokkit in the 4th ed codex was overpriced, and they being fixed to be an alternative to big shootas rather than an "upgrade". It's one of the few unambiguously good things about the 7th ed codex so far.
The deffkopter also benifits from the across the board cost reductions for bikes that have been happening since 5th.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Mr.Omega wrote:

Disclaimer: No offence intended

I can distinctly remember two times I saw a Land Raider at a tournament. On Saturday, wherein a guy with a CSM army had a barebones one in an army that was flawed in every dimension, lost all the games it played and only existed to transport a unit of Khorne Berserkers, and back at the very, very start of 6th in a Vulkan Salamander build.

I'd say not including the one I went to last weekend, I've been to about 6-7 tournaments wherein I'm extracting that sort of observation. I expect there might have been 1 or 2 more if I really thought about it but really, what planet are you living on.

Who even uses Monoliths? The only real AV14 threat that is common place now is the Leman Russ, and that will die to anything that can reach it in assault, has AV13 side armour and only 3 HP. Still an issue, but I'd imagine there are plenty ways to plan for AV14.

If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan.

Well, back about 4 years ago, when I still lived in the UK. I believe it was just prior to the release of grey knights. I had talked with the tourney organizers and they'd told me my 3 wagons with rollers were 'cheesy' and that if I entered, I'd be marked down for using such a list. So I didn't enter. I did walk the tables at the event to see what was going on and counted Land Raiders on many tables, some in multiples.

My point was not about edition, or really about tournament scene armies, but about the profusion of marine and marine variant armies, variants of the land raider and the number of players who use these armies, all adding up to the chances of encountering land raiders actually being fairly high.

As to monoliths, actually no clue the likelihood of encountering them, but I'd imagine it's just gone up with 7th making them even tougher to kill. Same with the 4HP Land raider.

"If you have trouble with a type of unit, you didn't plan to fail, you failed to plan. "
...Is perhaps the most meaningless thing I've read today, and I went on yahoo news comments... It literally has no application to what we were talking about, but it does make you sound really sharp there Sun Tzu.

**Bonzofever**

Well, Deffkoptaz sound pretty amazing right now!
150 points for 10 wounds with T5 4+ and cover save...

PhillyT wrote:
Mal already said you can just use the regular FOC if you want. The special one is optional.

Thank you for confirming that. Phew.

Feeling better!

**Dakkamite**

I went out and built an army designed to lose to land raiders.

Checkmate.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bonzofever wrote:
OK, I just can't sleep tonight because I'm worried about one thing. It's killing me. Really.

Do we have to stick to the special Ork FOC with a minimum of 3 Troop choices?
Or can we play just like any other army and possibly field two separate detachments with only 2 mandatory Troops to get extra HS slots?

Also, did the Deffkoptas get nerfed somehow? Rokkit Koptaz are just 30 points instead of 45.
A 33% point-cost reduction is huge. And I have plenty of them. Why bother with Buggies?
It's only a 5-point difference and you have a 4+ save.

Buggies are fearless, Deffkoptas have one of the biggest morale issues in the game. Maybe less so with that orky infighting table thing though.

**BAN**

Just tried to pre order my codex... its unavailable...WHUT?

**ninjafiredragon**

Mumblez wrote:
Pre-ordered my warboss edition!

And so the cycle continues....

**illuknisaa**

Did gw really nerf trukks?

In 4th dex trukks are basically so bad that they should give extra points if you field them. Now they are worse.