Ork rumours - First post updated 20th June

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**Melcavuk**

Slugga Boyz are 6 points each, the saving is that they come with Stikkbombs automatically.

Shootas are a +1 upgrade that must be taken by whole squad.

Trukks only have the 6+ downgrade a pen to glance rule, nothing else.

**Koppo**

Melcavuk wrote:

KFF: The bearer, and all models within 6", receive a 5+ invulnerable save against any shooting attacks. If the bearer is embarked in a vehicle, then the vehicle receives a 5+ invulnerable save against any shooting attacks instead

Cheers

**Perfect Organism**

Are Badrukk and Zagstruk still Ld 9?

If so, Badrukk seems like a fairly nice way to keep elite shooty units from running and Zagstruk might be the solution to Deffkoptas leadership issues.

It's OK to put a jump infantry character in a jetbike unit in 7th, right? That's how the Baron works in the Seer-star, isn't it?

**Karl Hammer**

I am quite excited about the new codex as it seems much more internally balanced. I feel a lot of the naysayers posting here are looking at units in isolation and not the army as a whole. Sure the "old" army builds of Lootas, Nob Bikers, MANZ trukks, and BW rush won't hold up as well but I didn't like having to "always" take these units to be viable.

The new codex provides a lot of opportunities to work-in previously under used units, add in new units, and make for an overall balanced and sustained attack. With the drop in prices of the Deffkoptas, Buggies, Tank Bustas, Killkannon, and increased dedicated transports, Flash Gitz, Mek Gunz, Pain Boyz, and a viable Weirdboy, there will be a lot of army builds with viable threats in the back-ield, midfield, and front lines to challenges an opponent.

**Melcavuk**

Perfect Organism wrote:
Are Badrukk and Zagstruk still Ld 9?

If so, Badrukk seems like a fairly nice way to keep elite shooty units from running and Zagstruk might be the solution to Deffkoptas leadership issues.

It's OK to put a jump infantry character in a jetbike unit in 7th, right? That's how the Baron works in the Seer-star, isn't it?

9 and 8 respectively.

**streamdragon**

Melcavuk wrote:
Boss is 9, Big Mek is 8. Everyone else is 7 except grots.

Sorry, one last question. I see that Gitz all have bosspoles automatically, do other units have to buy them or get them automatically also? Trying to figure out if I need to separate rows for "Character w/ Bosspole" and "Character w/o Bosspole".

**Kosake**

A little clarification on the weirdboy please.

So he gets his 1 or 2 WC based on his mastery, the usual D6 and another one for 10 'ere we go-models in his vicinity but must take a Ld-test or suffer a wound? Can you elaborate please? Does he get 1 WC for every 10 models or just once? Does he have to roll every time or just once?

**Melcavuk**

Everyone else has to pay for them, and units that cant take a nob dont have access to boss poles (looking at lootas and burnas here specifically)

Working it out Flash Gitz are actually really good value. They're basically a Nob (18 Points), with a boss pole (5 points) and they gain Git Findas (5 points) and Snazz Guns. Even if you feel the snazz gun is a fair swap for the slugga/choppa you're still essentially getting 28 points of kit on a 22 point model.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kosake wrote:
A little clarification on the weirdboy please.

So he gets his 1 or 2 WC based on his mastery, the usual D6 and another one for 10 'ere we go-models in his vicinity but must take a Ld-test or suffer a wound? Can you elaborate please? Does he get 1 WC for every 10 models or just once? Does he have to roll every time or just once?

Just once, if there are ten or more models with ere we go nearby.

If he generates this charge, and doesnt successfully cast a power he takes a str 2 HIT (not wound).

Generating this additional charge isnt a choice, if there are more than 10 models with ere we go nearby it generates.

**streamdragon**

Melcavuk wrote:
Everyone else has to pay for them, and units that cant take a nob dont have access to boss poles (looking at lootas and burnas here specifically)

Thanks!

**Solar Shock**

With an overall lean towards a dread mob styled list im actually considering using a reasonable amount of grots, cheap, expendable and with a few units il have enough that I can swamp a few midfield objectives. I dont expect them to with stand more than a glare, but with the rest of my force dealing with the enemy hopefully shooting or assulting the grots will simply be favourable to me in that my other units survive. I can then run smaller shoota boys units to move and sit on objectives.

Although i thought the use of a trukk as a speedy get-to objective, then turning it into a LOS blocker an effective use.

**Waaargh**

Bonzofever wrote:
Waaargh wrote:
That is a risk, and the mek will only be able to take charge of one battery, in a list that doesnt go full gunline. Still this is where I plan to plant my mek, with some mek gunz which mesh with the SAG (likely smasha gunz).

I thought the ADL still would provide a 4+ cover save. Anyways for an ork list with lots of dakka the ADL is adding a lot of protection = winning the gunfight.

But that is not how it works. It's not a case of average, they roll individually and with 5 there is a good chance some of them will fire off high strength beams, which is what you need to put a dent into the front of a russ or similar.

Agreed, in the same breath I will say orks need something to use against heavy armour. Flyers have not been much of an issue for the boyz. Armoured tanks have been an issue.

Do you have the luxury to take traktor kannonz and kannonz? Other stuff in the armoury can shoot infantry.

Agreed, ADL should grant a 4+ cover save. It's a great option to protect some of the Mekgunz, even without Quadgun. I still need to figure out if the point cost is worth the investment when you already have KFF bubbles for 2+/5++ rerollable saves. Armoured tanks were an issue but the Codex seems to offer lots of options to deal with that, including Smasha Gunz; but are you sure they roll individually? Don't you roll once for Str for all the battery each turn? Also, I think Mel pointed out you can't have both Mega-Armour and SAG on your Big Mek, but KFF is allowed. You want more protection against shooting for your precious gunz.

My cousin used to play IG with Vendettas, so flyers remain a threat. I wonder if replacing Smasha Gunz with Traktor Kannonz would be best, because my buggies can deal with other tanks thanks to outflank. I yet have to decied something about that, too.

I don't understand what you're getting at with your last sentence. Kannons are dirt cheap, that's what allows you to have so much resilient firepower along with 15x Buggies in a sub-1500-point army. Yes, other stuff can shoot infantry, but 10x S5 blasts per turn sounds good enough to me. Plus you can reroll to hit once per game. I'd love to see Flashgitz in here too, they look fantastic, but they are costy HS choices because they need to be embarked and protected. I want to spam my ennemy with S8-10 shots while being able to have S5 blasts again infantry.

I can see my last sentence was not well written. It was directed at general list building more than your actual list, and I sorta assumed you had brought along a good number of traktor kannonz (3 to 5 gunz). To continue along that line of thought I'd like - and would suggest others - to bring 5 smasha kannonz and a number of traktor kannonz, who can also target skimmers (eldars, necrons, tau) and stop them from delivering scoring units. In your list the number of kannonz seems like overkill and I wonder if the 3rd HS could be replaced with something else that is better against infantry, since your FA is focused at scoring and targeting armour.

The beauty of going full mek gun-line is the opponent will just try to ignore them as targets and thereby let them keep firing. The downside is the buggies are now prime targets, and the few grots will suffer a lot of casualties.

**Perfect Organism**

Do the HQ characters have fixed warlord traits and, if so, which ones?

Boss poles on Flash Gits are mostly worthless though, aren't they? Only the Kaptin actually benefits from having one, so it's more like one free bosspole per mob and a bunch of decorations. EDIT: it might be useful if you put a painboy in the mob and then the kaptin gets killed, assuming painboys don't have bosspoles.

**Toburk**

Melcavuk wrote:
Khtugg wrote:
Hi,

Melcavuk, I'd like to ask you about Grotsnik. I've read in the collected leaked info post that the good doctor confers Fearless, Rampage and Feel no Pain. Could you tell a bit more about him? Like stat changes, wargear and armour, level of FnP, those sort of things. It would be absolutely spiffing if you would!

His points cost and stats are identical to the previous codex with the exception that his cybork body now gives 6+ fnp not an invul, which is rendered useless by his docs tools giving 5+ FNP. The FNP he confers on the unit is the standard 5+, he also confers fearless and rampage on the unit he joins.

he has his Urty syringe, cant take grot helpers (so from a FNP point of view worse than a painboy), and a power klaw and slugga.

For his cost I'd say 3 painboys are more worthwhile (each has 1 less wound than him and lower WS but you're using them for FNP, and then can take orderlies.

Wait, he gives rampage to the entire unit, and doesn't just have it himself?

**Kirasu**

Karl Hammer wrote:
I am quite excited about the new codex as it seems much more internally balanced. I feel a lot of the naysayers posting here are looking at units in isolation and not the army as a whole. Sure the "old" army builds of Lootas, Nob Bikers, MANZ trukks, and BW rush won't hold up as well but I didn't like having to "always" take these units to be viable.

The new codex provides a lot of opportunities to work-in previously under used units, add in new units, and make for an overall balanced and sustained attack. With the drop in prices of the Deffkoptas, Buggies, Tank Bustas, Killkannon, and increased dedicated transports, Flash Gitz, Mek Gunz, Pain Boyz, and a viable Weirdboy, there will be a lot of army builds with viable threats in the back-ield, midfield, and front lines to challenges an opponent.

The problem is, internal balance means very little if external balance is terrible. Sure, 3rd edition demon hunter hunter book may have had great internal balance because it only had like 5 units.. but it was one of the god-awful worst armies because it sucked.

**Melcavuk**

He confers it to himself and the entire unit, however he doesnt have the actual rampage rule, both come from his "one scalpel sort of a medpack" rule that confers to him and the unit.

**BigmekRatsmek**

Melcavuk wrote:
Slugga Boyz are 6 points each, the saving is that they come with Stikkbombs automatically.

Shootas are a +1 upgrade that must be taken by whole squad.

Trukks only have the 6+ downgrade a pen to glance rule, nothing else.

Hm, okay. Thanks.

That's a bummer, I liked my trukks flying all over the place.
Though i could still use the ramshackle table in a friendly game, the S4 hits do bother me more.

Though I'll have to wait for the codex to make a final call, I think my standard lists need some tweeking.

**Perfect Organism**

Does Grotsnik still force his unit to make compulsory moves?

**Phydox**

I'm still on the fence about this codex. The codex may have brought orks into 7th edition, but its doing so by making them more shooty (which, even though goes with the trend of the game, goes AGAINST MY preferred style).

As an ork player who enjoys playing the speed freek "trukk rush" style, I haven't seen a lot to address CC shortfalls of the old codex and 7th ed rules:

1. overwatch still there
2. low initiative- orks may have finally gotten stikk bombs back to get rid of the penalty to initiative during assaults in cover but they're still attacking after a lot of races. Which means a lot of dead orks dont hit anything.

Hey the waaagh rule sounds great...move + fleet of foot + charge, (if im understanding it rightr) but the 2 points I mentioned above are still there. Also, with loss of fearless, ork staying power has dropped.

Except for the new 7th edition vehicle rules, trukks and the small units of boyz in them still will have the problems they've had in 6th edition. Is KFF gonna help?

Hopefully, discussing about these points can swing me one way or the other. Maybe I'm not seeing or missed something.

**BigmekRatsmek**

Phydox wrote:
I'm still on the fence about this codex. The codex may have brought orks into 7th edition, but its doing so by making them more shooty (which, even though goes with the trend of the game, goes AGAINST MY preferred style).

As an ork player who enjoys playing the speed freek "trukk rush" style, I haven't seen a lot to address CC shortfalls of the old codex and 7th ed rules:

1. overwatch still there
2. low initiative- orks may have finally gotten stikk bombs back to get rid of the penalty to initiative during assaults in cover but they're still attacking after a lot of races. Which means a lot of dead orks dont hit anything.

Hey the waaagh rule sounds great...move + fleet of foot + charge, (if im understanding it rightr) but the 2 points I mentioned above are still there. Also, with loss of fearless, ork staying power has dropped.

Except for the new 7th edition vehicle rules, trukks and the small units of boyz in them still will have the problems they've had in 6th edition. Is KFF gonna help?

Hopefully, discussing about these points can swing me one way or the other. Maybe I'm not seeing or missed something.

That's what I'm hung up on too.
I usually run 4 trukks (though with shootaboys inside) and a bw with a bigmek inside accompanied either by 19 more shoota/slugga boys or burnaboys.
With regular boys you now lose half of 'em in the definate explosion and then probably some more during the green mob shenanigans, which leaves you at not much.
Thankfully I have half of my shoota and slugga boys kitted out with some plates so I can try how those will do.

**Melcavuk**

Perfect Organism wrote:
Does Grotsnik still force his unit to make compulsory moves?

Nothing in his rules state about compulsary moves, just fearless and rampage and he cant leave them till they're all dead.

**Zog Off**

Perfect Organism wrote:
Are Badrukk and Zagstruk still Ld 9?

If so, Badrukk seems like a fairly nice way to keep elite shooty units from running and Zagstruk might be the solution to Deffkoptas leadership issues.

It's OK to put a jump infantry character in a jetbike unit in 7th, right? That's how the Baron works in the Seer-star, isn't it?

This would be rad! I don't know if it would be rad enough to pay the points to do it, but it would be rad!

They should have given the Big Mek and option to take a Deffkopta.

**schadenfreude**

Melcavuk wrote:
He confers it to himself and the entire unit, however he doesnt have the actual rampage rule, both come from his "one scalpel sort of a medpack" rule that confers to him and the unit.

That's a lot of klaw if he joins manz

**Melcavuk**

Zog Off wrote:
Perfect Organism wrote:
Are Badrukk and Zagstruk still Ld 9?

If so, Badrukk seems like a fairly nice way to keep elite shooty units from running and Zagstruk might be the solution to Deffkoptas leadership issues.

It's OK to put a jump infantry character in a jetbike unit in 7th, right? That's how the Baron works in the Seer-star, isn't it?

This would be rad! I don't know if it would be rad enough to pay the points to do it, but it would be rad!

They should have given the Big Mek and option to take a Deffkopta.

I got excited because I read the wargear section first which has Rokkit Packs in the Ork Know-wots section, and thought they could be taken by big meks/warbosses. Unfortunatly it was only spelling out what they do, and they arent actually a purchasable option for anyone who doesnt already come with them

**Davespil**

Does a Warboss still make Nobs into troops?

**Toburk**

Melcavuk wrote:
Perfect Organism wrote:
Does Grotsnik still force his unit to make compulsory moves?

Nothing in his rules state about compulsary moves, just fearless and rampage and he cant leave them till they're all dead.

The mad dok and meganobs. For when you have to kill every single guardsman.
With a power klaw.

I'm not even sure what to think about that. It's like hearing there's a named tervigon that gives smash to all nearby gants. I had just assumed they would have gone with rage.

**Allot**

BigmekRatsmek wrote:
Melcavuk wrote:
Slugga Boyz are 6 points each, the saving is that they come with Stikkbombs automatically.

Shootas are a +1 upgrade that must be taken by whole squad.

Trukks only have the 6+ downgrade a pen to glance rule, nothing else.

Hm, okay. Thanks.

That's a bummer, I liked my trukks flying all over the place.
Though i could still use the ramshackle table in a friendly game, the S4 hits do bother me more.

Though I'll have to wait for the codex to make a final call, I think my standard lists need some tweeking.

You are gonna pick and choose between new and old rules? Old ramshackle and 30pts?..

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davespil wrote:
Does a Warboss still make Nobs into troops?

No, there is nothing in the book that changes Foc

**Da Butcha**

Melcavuk wrote:
If we're using the "Can beat Iron Hands Chapter Master on Bike" yard stick then yes it sucks, but as a HQ choice its not bad for the rest of the games you arent facing that build.

So, from a rules perspective, I get what you are saying. "Not being able to beat the beatstick unit doesn't mean wimpy."

But, GW is supposed to be writing rules to reflect a background. A background where Chapter Masters are admittedly badass, but where they should be (in general) superior to a Warboss by virtue of their leadership, tactics, training, and broad array of resources, rather than sheer fighting ability.

That is to say, in the rules, they should have better leadership, convey valuable Chapter Tactics to their army, and have a wide selection of wargear (and also, be much better shots than Orks).

Not rules where they are better fighters than the ork who is so tough that his fighting ability lets him boss around all the other orks.

I'll admit that Chapter Masters should be a dangerous opponent for a Warboss, particularly a Chapter Master famed for his melee skill, like Grimnar, but Warbosses just seem outclassed by most of their opposition. They have no way of ignoring armor other than the Power Klaw which relegates them to going last. They have fewer wounds than some Space Marines. They have very little in the options for invulnerable saves. Given their place as the 'fightiest ork in the warband', they just don't seem on par with a lot of other HQs.

**Vineheart01**

Melcavuk wrote:
Zog Off wrote:
Perfect Organism wrote:
Are Badrukk and Zagstruk still Ld 9?

If so, Badrukk seems like a fairly nice way to keep elite shooty units from running and Zagstruk might be the solution to Deffkoptas leadership issues.

It's OK to put a jump infantry character in a jetbike unit in 7th, right? That's how the Baron works in the Seer-star, isn't it?

This would be rad! I don't know if it would be rad enough to pay the points to do it, but it would be rad!

They should have given the Big Mek and option to take a Deffkopta.

I got excited because I read the wargear section first which has Rokkit Packs in the Ork Know-wots section, and thought they could be taken by big meks/warbosses. Unfortunatly it was only spelling out what they do, and they arent actually a purchasable option for anyone who doesnt already come with them

*sigh* that was one of my biggest hopes since i saw every freakin SM getting access to literally every type of wargear minus heavy weapons (unless it was attached to the termie armor in said codex) or cent armor.
I want a warboss with rokkit packs!
I mean its fluffy too. Warboss wants his punch to have some backbone to it so he jumps in with a rokkit on his back to aid the punch!

**BigmekRatsmek**

Allot wrote:

You are gonna pick and choose between new and old rules? Old ramshackle and 30pts?..

Well friendly games only. And Im not sure how exactly Id wanna do it. Probably just gonna stick with the 3D6 random movement.

**Perfect Organism**

Zog Off wrote:
They should have given the Big Mek and option to take a Deffkopta.

That would have been fantastic.

I'm holding out a faint hope that they will release a supplement with a relic deffkopta.