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champagne_socialist wrote:
OK so you want to play the repetitive game where we keep repeating the same things, ok I can oplay that game. i did prove that the rule allows you to set up outside your deployment. SS rules lets you set it up outside your deployment and SS rules let flyers start on it. That is me proving it

But that is incorrect as none of those rules you referenced specifically allow a unit to deploy outside their deployment zone.

the two rues combined do allow it

champagne_socialist wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

And which of those rules mentions ignoring normal deployment rules? I know which one allows a flyer to deploy on the board instead of Reserves, but you're also ignoring a second restriction and haven't cited a rule allowing it.

But this is why this debate is just going around in circles. I believe the ready for take off rule allows you to ignore deployment rules because it lets you start a flyer on the SS and the SS can be placed anywhere in your table half. You obviously disagree so why do you keep repeating it? you disagree end of debate

You can believe the sky is taupe - what's relevant is what you can prove.
You cannot prove that Ready for take off allows you to ignore deployment rules. I've proven it does not.
Please stop saying there's a debate here - there isn't as far as what the rules actually say.
Or rather, not an honest one.

OK so you want to play the repetitive game where we keep repeating the same things, ok I can oplay that game. i did prove that the rule allows you to set up outside your deployment. SS rules lets you set it up outside your deployment and SS rules let flyers start on it. That is me proving it

Neither rule allows you to ignore the deployment rules. I can tell because neither of them mentions the deployment rules.

Which is, you know, how you can tell if a rule is ignored - another rule will tell you. What you're doing is making a leap unsupported by the rules, meaning it's not actually RAW. Let's break it down...

Why are you saying a Flyer can be deployed outside the deployment zone? Because the SSLP can be deployed outside the deployment zone, and another rule allows a Flyer to deploy on the LP. So you're making an assumption that A+B=C when there's no explicit permission. Assumptions aren't valid here. Use actual rules to prove your point.

yes the two rules combined allow you to do it

rule 1) Sky shield can be placed anywhere in your tabe half
rule 2) flyers can start the game in hover mode on top of your sky shield

champagne_socialist wrote:
yes the two rules combined allow you to do it

rule 1) Sky shield can be placed anywhere in your tabe half
rule 2) flyers can start the game in hover mode on top of your sky shield

Please show where the rules specifically state that a Flyer can be deployed outside of your deployment zone.

You haven't proven anything to me. I believe in my interpretation of the rules which is

yes the two rules combined allow you to do it

rule 1) Sky shield can be placed anywhere in your table half
rule 2) flyers can start the game in hover mode on top of your sky shield

this allows flyers to start outside deployment

Now we can end the debate and agree to disagree because neither of us are going to convince the other or we can continue to argue and I will continue to copy and paste my views.

Please brush up on the tenets, which require you to support your arguments with rules. You have not done so, and in factCANNOT do so, as no rule exists that does what you claim

You are making the equivalent argument that a unit can assault from reserves, as long as it disembarked from an assault vehicle. Given we know that is false, we can handily disprove your argument as having any merit whatsoever.

I can't get to my rule book right now, but if I remember correctly in the Building section, it has rules for deploying units in buildings not in the deployment zone. Something about requiring the Infiltrate special rule. I will look when I can get to my book.

champagne_socialist wrote:
yes the two rules combined allow you to do it

rule 1) Sky shield can be placed anywhere in your table half
rule 2) flyers can start the game in hover mode on top of your sky shield

this allows flyers to start outside deployment

This is not how rules in a game work. Permissions do not override restrictions unless the permissions explicitly say so. So in order for your premise #2 to be correct, the rule would have to say that flyers can start the game in hover mode on top of your shy shield landing pad, even when that landing pad is outside of your deployment zone.


To give you another example (and there are hundreds) of how permissions do not override restrictions except when specified otherwise:

1) The rules disallow making a charge on the first turn if you made a scout redeployment.
2) The 'assault vehicle' rules on a vehicle allow a unit to charge after disembarking.
3) By your way of thinking, this would mean a unit that makes a scout redeployment and then on the first turn disembarks from an 'assault vehicle' can charge.


But again, this is patently untrue across the board in all game rules, because if you don't play that way, the rules cease to function in any coherent way.

Restrictions always override permissions, except when the permissions explicitly say that they override the restriction.


And to everyone: if you have nothing further to add to a conversation, then simply stop posting, regardless of what anyone else is asking or doing. Otherwise (continuing to post the same things over and over and over again), this is SPAM and your account will be disciplined, capiche?

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I can't get to my rule book right now, but if I remember correctly in the Building section, it has rules for deploying units in buildings not in the deployment zone. Something about requiring the Infiltrate special rule. I will look when I can get to my book.

The sky shield is not a building, so those rules would not apply in this situation.

 nolzur wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I can't get to my rule book right now, but if I remember correctly in the Building section, it has rules for deploying units in buildings not in the deployment zone. Something about requiring the Infiltrate special rule. I will look when I can get to my book.

The sky shield is not a building, so those rules would not apply in this situation.

Though on that train of thought, if you could buy a flyer as a dedicated transport, and the unit had infiltrate would you be able to infiltrate the flyer onto the SSLP, if the SSLP was still out of your deployment but in the range limits for infiltrate?

That seems reasonable. It follows deployment rules, and makes use of the upgrade.

Which flyer has infiltrate?

 chelsea_hollywood wrote:
That seems reasonable. It follows deployment rules, and makes use of the upgrade.

Which flyer has infiltrate?

(Just a wild guess here, not sure if there is such a unit combination).

an IG flyer bought as a DT for a squad with infiltrate?

IG flyers are not dedicated transports, nor are grey knights, blood angels, and space marines.

Tau, dark eldar, orks and dark angels do not have transport flyers.

Necrons have dedicated transport flyers, but no unit that can take them can infiltrate.

Only elysians can take dedicated flyer transports and infiltrate. But the have combat drop anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Found the rule I was thinking of.

Page 121.

Deploying within a Fortification.
It only allows for units with scouts or infiltrators rules to be deployed in it, regardless of enemy proximity.

Which specifically refutes the OP's premise of being allowed to deploy in the Sky shield with said flyer outside of the deployment zone.

 chelsea_hollywood wrote:
That seems reasonable. It follows deployment rules, and makes use of the upgrade.

Which flyer has infiltrate?

Didn't know of a squad with infiltrate that could buy a DT flyer or a flyer with infiltrate. was just posting a "what if... then"

champagne_socialist wrote:
the skyshield special rule allowing a flyer to start outside your deployment zone is a debateable poont that is never going to be proven unless GW release an errata or faq. It reminds me of the vindicare dead shot and look out sir special rule that caused a lot of debate.

Not really, it gives no permission to deploy outside your deployment zone at all.

its something that always drived me nuts with some of the poeple in our Club.

for them its impossible, even if the units are exactly at 24" of each others, and that one or another unit can do a 12+12" move, like lets say the Maulerfiend and enter in contact, even if the adverseray is on the 12" from the center and i'm at 12" of the center.

i really don't understand how they count and measure, to me if something is at 24 of you, and you make 24", then you enters contact with it, now if the ennemy is 24.5" or 25" away okay, but 24" fits in 24"...

And they really seem to not get it.

Well, with the standard deployments, you start more than 12" away from the centre line meaning that you need more than 24" to get into base contact first turn. Barring Scout and Infiltrate of course.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
its something that always drived me nuts with some of the poeple in our Club.

for them its impossible, even if the units are exactly at 24" of each others, and that one or another unit can do a 12+12" move, like lets say the Maulerfiend and enter in contact, even if the adverseray is on the 12" from the center and i'm at 12" of the center.

i really don't understand how they count and measure, to me if something is at 24 of you, and you make 24", then you enters contact with it, now if the ennemy is 24.5" or 25" away okay, but 24" fits in 24"...

And they really seem to not get it.

the problem is you deploy "greater than 12" so you should be a microscopic hair over 24" which is where most people get that from.

But as things get nudged, bumped, and just deployed fully believing you are a hair over 12", it should come down to measuring the distance and seeing where things fall.

Yeah , but if you have to look with a microscope your moves when playing, then you really need to play another game, thats my opinion.

Now GW should have rather said " deploy at 26 from each other" and be done with it, because more then 24, is as vague as it can be.

Well vagueness and randomness are GW MO...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah , but if you have to look with a microscope your moves when playing, then you really need to play another game, thats my opinion.

Now GW should have rather said " deploy at 26 from each other" and be done with it, because more then 24, is as vague as it can be.

Well vagueness and randomness are GW MO...

It's not vague at all.
More then 12" each from the centerline means it's literally impossible to move 24" and be in contact. If it happens someone did something against the rules.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Yeah , but if you have to look with a microscope your moves when playing, then you really need to play another game, thats my opinion.

Now GW should have rather said " deploy at 26 from each other" and be done with it, because more then 24, is as vague as it can be.

Well vagueness and randomness are GW MO...

It's not vague at all.
More then 12" each from the centerline means it's literally impossible to move 24" and be in contact. If it happens someone did something against the rules.

One of the few cases where GW actually wrote a good rule.

Scarab farm. 9 spyders. Deploy scarab squad at the front. Turn one add one scarab base to the squad 2" further forward. Now add another scarab base. And another etc. Do this 9 times. You have just made ~16/20 inches. Now you have 12" movement and a 2d6 charge.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Scarab farm. 9 spyders. Deploy scarab squad at the front. Turn one add one scarab base to the squad 2" further forward. Now add another scarab base. And another etc. Do this 9 times. You have just made ~16/20 inches. Now you have 12" movement and a 2d6 charge.

Illegal. Read the FAQ/Errata.

Ahhh bugger. Which one? What does it say specifically to prevent it?

Poly Ranger wrote:
Scarab farm. 9 spyders. Deploy scarab squad at the front. Turn one add one scarab base to the squad 2" further forward. Now add another scarab base. And another etc. Do this 9 times. You have just made ~16/20 inches. Now you have 12" movement and a 2d6 charge.

That's not how it works anymore. You can only gain 2" + a scarab's base worth of distance now.

Attached is the excerpt from the digital codex.

Noooooooo! Good job I only own 1 spyder :-p! (And never use it - probably why I was unaware)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still makes it 'possible' to get a 1st turn charge mind...

 yakface wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Scarab farm. 9 spyders. Deploy scarab squad at the front. Turn one add one scarab base to the squad 2" further forward. Now add another scarab base. And another etc. Do this 9 times. You have just made ~16/20 inches. Now you have 12" movement and a 2d6 charge.

That's not how it works anymore. You can only gain 2" + a scarab's base worth of distance now.

Granted 2 inches plus 40mm is enough to make a first turn charge as you gain about 3.7 inches past your deployment line and the deployment zone goes from just over 24 inches to just over 20.3 inches, so it is possible with a 12 inch move and a 9+ inch charge, though a 9+ inch charge should never be counted upon.

I've found the ultimate guy for first turn "charges" and he's not even charging.

I give you Zhadsnark, ork biker. He moves 12, then can turbo boost 24 and tank shock any units he can reach. Worse yet, if he starts with warbikers & is your warlord, he can scout. So redeploy 12" move 12" turbo boost/tank shock 24" so 46" threat range

SO he can tank shock any unit on the back of the table and it will be well worth it and funny as heck, any time a unit runs off the table

If the unit DOG's and causes a wound (which can be saved), then they're locked in combat with Zhadsnark in the shooting phase so they can move onto the assault phase as normal He didn't assault, so no overwatches, and it can be done on the first turn

edited (I forgot bikes redeploy 12 not 6", so its 46" threat range. )