Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone who's familiar with running a decked out Chapter Master on a Bike (Artificer, Thunder Hammer, Shield Eternal) ...have you had any experience with paying for Digital Weapons? It seems like being able to re-roll one failed would could almost be worth one extra attack against higher toughness models. Doesn't seem like a bad investment, considering you're already spending a fortune on the HQ as it is—might as well make sure you wound what you hit. Especially if the Concussive trigger is critical.

In the same vein, it seems like Auspex could be a good purchase if he's going to be accompanying a group of Grav-Gun bikers. If I'm going to be unloading 9 Grav-Gun shots on something, I know I'll be taking their armor save away ...crippling their potential cover save would definitely be worth 5 points, right? I mean, if it leads to 1 more dead model or 1 more wound, it would surely be better than firing the bike's TL Bolter, no?

Thanks ahead of time.

Or if wanting to save points just downgrade the th down to a pf and then get the digital weapons. I totally agree with your logic though.
With auspex, you can instead give him a combi-grav for 3 more grav shots. Its situational which would be better...

I have him magnetized w/ a PF so I can use it over the TH in situations where I absolutely HAVE to save 5 points, but otherwise, the Concussive is just so good that he uses the Hammer almost all the time.

Poly Ranger wrote:With auspex, you can instead give him a combi-grav for 3 more grav shots. Its situational which would be better...

Both weapons are already exchanged for the Shield and Hammer/Fist. Don't have a 3rd to exchange for a combi-weapon. However, Auspex is a "free" additional option that doesn't require a weapon exchange.

I think the digital weapons are more valuable if you are fighting against Wraith constructs or Iron Arm MCs often.
If you're just smashing T4-6 units, it's not needed but also not a terrible way to spend some left over points.

I think I'd rather take a few meltabombs on squads instead.

Cheers. Thanks for the feedback.

What targets are you planning to go after with this guy? Splashing out for a Chapter Master on a bike with the Shield Eternal strongly suggests to me that you are planning on taking out heavy hitters like monstrous creatures and walkers. If that's the case, you can probably save yourself a few points by dropping Artificer Armour, because Smash attacks and DCCWs ignore it anyway.

Digital Weapons only really make sense against Eldar MCs and Iron Arm daemons. Almost everything else is going down on a 2+ anyway. Digital Weapons would be a lot more useful if you were using a Relic Blade (which should totally be an option if you are going after softer Monstrous Creatures - concussive is nice, but going first is generally better).

The Auspex seems like a safer choice. As you say, it's a force multiplier for your unit and it's only five points.

It's true that a lot of the targets will be able to bypass the 2+ in CC, but I don't want to suffer any unnecessary wounds from high-volume shooting on the way in. And a lot of times, they may want to intercept the Master to protect their high-priority target, and I don't want to suffer any unnecessary wounds while he's being tarpitted either.

And while it's also true that he'll be wounding most things on a 2+ in CC, there will be high toughness targets that he may only be wounding on a 3+ or 4+. And in those instances, the Digital Weapons may equate to an extra wound per round of combat. If that one extra wound wraps a combat up, I may be able to bring down another target before the game ends, making it well worth the extra 10 points. Plus, even against things I'm thrashing on a 2+, I'll still roll the occasional 1, and I'd like to see combats get closed out in those scenarios too.

Going first is generally better, but given the survivability of the chapter master, I'd rather have the additional 2 power and the AP2 that I get from the Hammer. The Fist can be used on the rare occasion where I absolutely have to cut 5 points somewhere and can't find something else, but on a 4 wound character with a 2+/3++, T5 and Eternal Warrior, I'd rather bring the high strength, low AP weapon. And against other CC powerhouses, the Concussive can be absolutely clutch in late-round combat, especially if he took a wound or two on the way in. There's nothing worse than losing a 250 point character in a higher initiative round of combat when it could've been a trade instead—at the low cost of 5 points to turn the PF into a TH.

Neither option (Digital Weapons or Auspex) will be something used all the time (unlike the primary loadout) but I was wondering if they were going to be worthwhile add-ons when I have a handful of extra points to drop somewhere.

Thanks for the feedback!

 wtwlf123 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:With auspex, you can instead give him a combi-grav for 3 more grav shots. Its situational which would be better...

Both weapons are already exchanged for the Shield and Hammer/Fist. Don't have a 3rd to exchange for a combi-weapon. However, Auspex is a "free" additional option that doesn't require a weapon exchange.

You still have a bolter on the bike to exchange, no?

I wasn't sure if you could do that.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:With auspex, you can instead give him a combi-grav for 3 more grav shots. Its situational which would be better...

Both weapons are already exchanged for the Shield and Hammer/Fist. Don't have a 3rd to exchange for a combi-weapon. However, Auspex is a "free" additional option that doesn't require a weapon exchange.

You still have a bolter on the bike to exchange, no?

Dont think you can do that. Id forgotten the shield eternal needs a replacement. A normal stormshield doesnt.

You can exchange the grenades as well, can you not? Seems meaningless to keep the kraks.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
You can exchange the grenades as well, can you not? Seems meaningless to keep the kraks.

No. All weapon exchanges specifically require you to exchange the Bolt Pistol and/or Melee Weapon in order to select new weapon options.

Which also invalidates the ability to exchange the bike's TL Bolter too.

EDIT: However, the Chapter Relic entry reads differently. It reads "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:" which MAY mean that the weapon on the bike can be exchanged for the Shield Eternal, and the Bolt Pistol and Melee weapon can be exchanged for the Hammer and Combi-Weapon, respectively. I'm honestly not sure.

EDIT2: Looking closer, over in the entry for the Bike Squad, the TL Bolter is not listed as wargear. The Space Marine Bike itself counts as the wargear option. This may prevent the components of the bike itself from being exchangeable.

EDIT3: Chaos players do the same thing on their Biker Lords though, right? They exchange the bike's weapon for a Relic Weapon, and then exchange the BP and CCW for a PF and LC, right? So wouldn't the Space Marine player be able to do the same thing?

 wtwlf123 wrote:
It's true that a lot of the targets will be able to bypass the 2+ in CC, but I don't want to suffer any unnecessary wounds from high-volume shooting on the way in. And a lot of times, they may want to intercept the Master to protect their high-priority target, and I don't want to suffer any unnecessary wounds while he's being tarpitted either.

And while it's also true that he'll be wounding most things on a 2+ in CC, there will be high toughness targets that he may only be wounding on a 3+ or 4+. And in those instances, the Digital Weapons may equate to an extra wound per round of combat. If that one extra wound wraps a combat up, I may be able to bring down another target before the game ends, making it well worth the extra 10 points. Plus, even against things I'm thrashing on a 2+, I'll still roll the occasional 1, and I'd like to see combats get closed out in those scenarios too.

Going first is generally better, but given the survivability of the chapter master, I'd rather have the additional 2 power and the AP2 that I get from the Hammer. The Fist can be used on the rare occasion where I absolutely have to cut 5 points somewhere and can't find something else, but on a 4 wound character with a 2+/3++, T5 and Eternal Warrior, I'd rather bring the high strength, low AP weapon. And against other CC powerhouses, the Concussive can be absolutely clutch in late-round combat, especially if he took a wound or two on the way in. There's nothing worse than losing a 250 point character in a higher initiative round of combat when it could've been a trade instead—at the low cost of 5 points to turn the PF into a TH.

Neither option (Digital Weapons or Auspex) will be something used all the time (unlike the primary loadout) but I was wondering if they were going to be worthwhile add-ons when I have a handful of extra points to drop somewhere.

Thanks for the feedback!

Hmmm I had never thought of using the digital weapons before. But yes I could totally see it being worth it for the points. Re-rolling 2's is always awesome, and can be invaluable in some situations. It could be the last wound on say some thing like a daemon prince. If so the wound you got back with the digital weapons is essentially worth ~85 points.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I think if it results in 1 more wound a game, it's worth the points, considering the targets you seek out with the Chapter Master. That doesn't seem that farfetched.

I run Digiweapons all the time on my CM and Libby.
It's REALLY worth it. The amount of times they need to fail one wound and that's literally all they fail, just one...
That one re-roll less could have meant they saved them all.

Plus, y'know, it never hurts to overkill.
You're paying so many points, you might as well take them.

Auspex? I never bother. I might start though. I forgot it existed but it could help an awful lot, honestly.

I think the Auspex can make a big deal in those instances where you're dumping grav-shots into a squad that has cover. It can mean more wounds than adding his own grav-shots to the mix, and it's cheaper. If your target is out in the open and is in double-tap range, you might as well just charge it instead. So the Auspex gives you something to do against targets in cover that are just barely out of charge distance. You'll usually only have 1 turn outside of double-tap range where you aren't planning on charging, and that turn is spent calling down your Orbital Bombardment anyways.

And ya, Digital Weapons will equate to extra wounds over the course of the game. I can easily see it being worth the 10 points, considering the kinds of targets the Chapter Master is hunting to begin with.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I think the Auspex can make a big deal in those instances where you're dumping grav-shots into a squad that has cover. It can mean more wounds than adding his own grav-shots to the mix, and it's cheaper. If your target is out in the open and is in double-tap range, you might as well just charge it instead. So the Auspex gives you something to do against targets in cover that are just barely out of charge distance.

And ya, Digital Weapons will equate to extra wounds over the course of the game. I can easily see it being worth the 10 points, considering the kinds of targets the Chapter Master is hunting to begin with.

If they're in the open use the auspex on them anyway. If they go to ground it's negated, isn't it? Then charge (assuming the rest of the squad is on a bike/firing assault weapons or pistols)
The one or two extra boltgun shots aren't worth it half the time (in my local meta at least)

That's a good question. I don't know if it erases a 6+ cover save completely.

You want to be careful dumping a ton of grav-gun shots on a squad and then charging. It will kill a lot of stuff, and the models removed may pull you out of charge range. Usually I'd just split him from the squad, charge w/ just the CM and let the bikers grav-gun something else to death.