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Turkey has just shot a syrian fighter jet after it entered their airspace according to reports from Cnn and RT as well as other papers.

"(CNN) -- Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet Sunday after the warplane strayed into its airspace, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.

"Our F-16s went up in the air and shot that plane down. Why? Because if you violate my airspace, then from now on, our slap will be hard," Erdogan told supporters at a campaign rally.

There was no immediate response to the claim from Syria, where a civil war periodically spills over its neighbors' borders.

The Turkish armed forces website reported that two Syrian planes were spotted and were warned four times about approaching Turkish airspace as they flew north in Syrian airspace.

One plane left the area but the second plane continued, and entered Turkish airspace by approximately 1 kilometer (six-tenths of a mile). The plane turned west and continued to fly into Turkish airspace, according to the site.

One of the two Turkish F-16s patrolling the area launched a missile at the Syrian plane and it crashed in the area of Kesep, in Syrian territory about 1200 meters (three-quarters of a mile) south of the border, Turkish armed forces said." http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



this is paired with israels retaliation against syrian bombings, and is indicative of further escalation of conflict in an already conflicted zone. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/world/meast/israel-syria-violence/index.html
"Addressing a Cabinet meeting Wednesday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the Israeli strikes on Syrian territory targeted elements "that not only facilitated, but also cooperated with, the attacks on our forces."

He added, "Our policy is very clear: We attack those who attack us.""


becuase the middle east went "hey, cant let eastern Europe, Spain, and south america get all the attention!"

When i read the title I wanted to believe a turkey somehow got sucked into a jet engine. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Can't say as I blame Turkey so much in this one. They warned the aircraft multiple times. It might not be the smartest move from a political standpoint, but it didn't do anything wrong per say.

The Turks have only recently said that violations of their borders will be considered an immediate threat.

Of course, Syria contests that their aircraft was in their own airspace. Best thing for the Syrians is not to fly aircraft with barrel bombs anywhere in Syria. Just to make sure these incidents don't happen.

 dementedwombat wrote:
When i read the title I wanted to believe a turkey somehow got sucked into a jet engine. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Can't say as I blame Turkey so much in this one. They warned the aircraft multiple times. It might not be the smartest move from a political standpoint, but it didn't do anything wrong per say.

Pretty much this.

 easysauce wrote:

"Our F-16s went up in the air and shot that plane down. Why? Because if you violate my airspace, then from now on, our slap will be hard," Erdogan told supporters at a campaign rally.

Just out of interest, did he actually say "my airspace", as opposed to "our airspace"? I've seen several different sources saying so, but it seems a bit strange.

I dont trust a word Netanyahu says, with good reason. What 'retaliation' is Israel talking about, Obama recently spilled the beans on what Israel was doing, namely bombing Syria while relying on 'plausible deniability' to deflect comments that the strikes were illegal and not self defence. Netanyahu's complaint at Obama was at exposing lies rather than exposing military actions themselves.
Israel plays the self defence card way more than is plausible and Israeli military actions should not be seen as retaliatory or otherwise justified without stringent proof, they don't have enough moral coinage.

Source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

It crashed 3/4 of a mile into Syrian territory, this would probably collaborate the Turkish claim of transgression. The speeds at which jet fighters fly make 3/4 of a mile a tiny distance. It could have crossed the border, heard the warnings and then the pilot finally decided to turn back when he spotted the f-16s.

 Orlanth wrote:
I dont trust a word Netanyahu says, with good reason. What 'retaliation' is Israel talking about, Obama recently spilled the beans on what Israel was doing, namely bombing Syria while relying on 'plausible deniability' to deflect comments that the strikes were illegal and not self defence. Netanyahu's complaint at Obama was at exposing lies rather than exposing military actions themselves.
Israel plays the self defence card way more than is plausible and Israeli military actions should not be seen as retaliatory or otherwise justified without stringent proof, they don't have enough moral coinage.

Source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

Brilliant. Maybe you missed the fact that Syrians planted an IED that injured Israeli soldiers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-israel-syria-idUSBREA2H1EM20140318

It takes a special sort to believe that Israel wants to fire artillery into Syria for no reason.

yeah.. as much as I dont trust any politician, netenyahu isnt really pulling a false flag here,

unfortunately I think this is exactly what it appears to be on the surface,

namely that EVERYONE in the area has now taken the kid gloves off so to speak.

I think its going to take a lot to de escalate the situation now if its possible

I don't really trust Israel when it comes to their motives, but I don't think that would have been a false flag operation.

Now, Israel sitting there with an itchy trigger finger while having all their targets already marked on the map and the missions already planned out while just waiting for any excuse to launch the mission? That is much more plausible in my book.

 d-usa wrote:


Now, Israel sitting there with an itchy trigger finger while having all their targets already marked on the map and the missions already planned out while just waiting for any excuse to launch the mission? That is much more plausible in my book.

Pretty much the entire world has the plans already drawn up and just seems to be waiting for an excuse.

Not limited to israel, although I do think they have put a lot more thought into it then most.

 easysauce wrote:

 d-usa wrote:


Now, Israel sitting there with an itchy trigger finger while having all their targets already marked on the map and the missions already planned out while just waiting for any excuse to launch the mission? That is much more plausible in my book.

Pretty much the entire world has the plans already drawn up and just seems to be waiting for an excuse.

Not limited to israel, although I do think they have put a lot more thought into it then most.

Few countries have had more reason to do so.

I wonder how long it will take for someone in this thread to get called anti-semitic...

 sebster wrote:
I wonder how long it will take for someone in this thread to get called anti-semitic...

Page 2, 14th post.

 sebster wrote:
I wonder how long it will take for someone in this thread to get called anti-semitic...

Shut up you anti-semite.

Meh, I can't blame a country for doing something I would expect my country to do if there was a civil war waging on my border they had access to biological weapons (either side). Good on the Turks assuming they were in their airspace.

I'm mostly just curious what they shot and what they shot it with.

Nice to see Vipers getting some kills, though.

So the Turks had F-16s, what was the Syrian flying?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I dont trust a word Netanyahu says, with good reason. What 'retaliation' is Israel talking about, Obama recently spilled the beans on what Israel was doing, namely bombing Syria while relying on 'plausible deniability' to deflect comments that the strikes were illegal and not self defence. Netanyahu's complaint at Obama was at exposing lies rather than exposing military actions themselves.
Israel plays the self defence card way more than is plausible and Israeli military actions should not be seen as retaliatory or otherwise justified without stringent proof, they don't have enough moral coinage.

Source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

Brilliant. Maybe you missed the fact that Syrians planted an IED that injured Israeli soldiers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-israel-syria-idUSBREA2H1EM20140318

It takes a special sort to believe that Israel wants to fire artillery into Syria for no reason.

Well those 'special sorts' include your president.

This assumes that Syrian government forces did actually plant an IED, which isd by no means a fact. Even the article you linked to said it was unclear who planted the bomb. It might have been someone else but taken as an excuse for more airstrikes and that is a likely supposition allowing for Natanyaghus abhorent policy choices.
Point remains Israel took recent unilateral military action against Syria without any just cause and got pissy when Obama removed their ability to lie about it.

Maybe you prefer to believe the roadside IED has Assads signiture on it, it might have had a note with a ribbon too.

However you ought to be aware that lots of people in the middle east have it in for Israel, with various degrees of motive. Natanyahu wants to bomb Syria so he makes up an excuse knowing that there are plenty of idiots will blindly support it because they are spoonfed Israel = good , Arab = bad.

 Seaward wrote:
I'm mostly just curious what they shot and what they shot it with.

Nice to see Vipers getting some kills, though.

Too bad they weren't Cylon Raiders.

.....wait, wrong Vipers

for those curious as to what kind of plane was shot down:

"In a statement, the Turkish military said a Syrian MiG-23 entered Turkey’s airspace near the Hatay border zone after ignoring four warnings to turn back. One of two Turkish F-16s flying an air patrol in the area then fired a missile that struck the Syrian jet, which crashed 1,200 metres inside Syrian territory near the town of Kassab, the military said."


finally... I thought the syrians had older MIGs, but took a while to find confirmation that that is what was shot down.

 Orlanth wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
I dont trust a word Netanyahu says, with good reason. What 'retaliation' is Israel talking about, Obama recently spilled the beans on what Israel was doing, namely bombing Syria while relying on 'plausible deniability' to deflect comments that the strikes were illegal and not self defence. Netanyahu's complaint at Obama was at exposing lies rather than exposing military actions themselves.
Israel plays the self defence card way more than is plausible and Israeli military actions should not be seen as retaliatory or otherwise justified without stringent proof, they don't have enough moral coinage.

Source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

Brilliant. Maybe you missed the fact that Syrians planted an IED that injured Israeli soldiers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/18/us-israel-syria-idUSBREA2H1EM20140318

It takes a special sort to believe that Israel wants to fire artillery into Syria for no reason.

Well those 'special sorts' include your president.

This assumes that Syrian government forces did actually plant an IED, which isd by no means a fact. Even the article you linked to said it was unclear who planted the bomb. It might have been someone else but taken as an excuse for more airstrikes and that is a likely supposition allowing for Natanyahus abhorent policy choices.
Point remains Israel took recent unilateral military action against Syria without any just cause and got pissy when Obama removed their ability to lie about it.

Maybe you prefer to believe the roadside IED has Assads signiture on it, it might have had a note with a ribbon too.

However you ought to be aware that lots of people in the middle east have it in for Israel, with various degrees of motive. Natanyahu wants to bomb Syria so he makes up an excuse knowing that there are plenty of idiots will blindly support it because they are spoonfed Israel = good , Arab = bad.

Where did ANYONE say "Syrian government forces" planted the bomb? The Israeli position is that they don't know who planted it, but they hold the Syrian government responsible. This makes sense if you know ANYTHING about the region since the Syrian military is receiving support from Hezbollah, an organization that wants the destruction of Israel. You need read read more and type less.

Why does Netanyahu want to bomb Syria? You can't make these absurd accusations without providing evidence. You have provided zero for your claims.

 Easy E wrote:
So the Turks had F-16s, what was the Syrian flying?

Mig-23 supposedly.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Where did ANYONE say "Syrian government forces" planted the bomb? You need read read more and type less.

The Israeli government blamed 'Syria' for thne IED. When a nation is listed as culprit that doesnt mean mean blame random Syrians or people in Syria biut Syria itself, as in the government.

Compare the two statements

"Man shot in Paris, a visiting American is blamed."
"Man shot in Paris, America blamed."

The first implies crime, the second implies government involvement.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Why does Netanyahu want to bomb Syria? You can't make these absurd accusations without providing evidence. You have provided zero for your claims.

You kidding right, surely you can't be this stupid.

If Israelis aircraft launch airstrikes against Syria and admits doing so in government publications it is fair to say the Israeli government is behind it at top level. An individual soldier might get trigger happy, but airstrikes only happen if the authorities order them. I am no fan of Israel but I dont believe that they lack discipline or that the IAF launches random bombing missions without orders, they may lack common morality but they are very careful what they do.

If somehow this is not enough that fact that links on this thread show Netanyahu talking about the airstrike should tell you who authorised it.

CNN wrote:Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the Israeli strikes on Syrian territory targeted elements "that not only facilitated, but also cooperated with, the attacks on our forces."

Please give your brain a chance.

 easysauce wrote:
for those curious as to what kind of plane was shot down:

"In a statement, the Turkish military said a Syrian MiG-23 entered Turkey’s airspace near the Hatay border zone after ignoring four warnings to turn back. One of two Turkish F-16s flying an air patrol in the area then fired a missile that struck the Syrian jet, which crashed 1,200 metres inside Syrian territory near the town of Kassab, the military said."


finally... I thought the syrians had older MIGs, but took a while to find confirmation that that is what was shot down.

They've got some 29s, but I doubt they'd risk them with a stunt like this. Still, I was hoping.

I was surprised that the mig-23 pilot had time to eject safely...

I was under the impression they wouldn't know they even had a missile locked onto them until too late due to the large gap in tech between the two jets.

 easysauce wrote:
I was surprised that the mig-23 pilot had time to eject safely...

I was under the impression they wouldn't know they even had a missile locked onto them until too late due to the large gap in tech between the two jets.

Maybe he was warned.

The Turks may consider the shooting down of the jet to be enough of a message, not the death of the pilot. Telling a Mig 23 pilot a current generation missile is on its way is an incentive to eject, you can ping your own missile or otherwise be unsubtle with it, the Mig dopesnt have much chance if it sees the missile or not. A live pilot means someone to interrogate, or parade in front of the media so there is motive to force an eject.

 Orlanth wrote:


The Israeli government blamed 'Syria' for thne IED. When a nation is listed as culprit that doesnt mean mean blame random Syrians or people in Syria biut Syria itself, as in the government.

Or you could actually read the fething article, in which it explains the Israeli position.

 Orlanth wrote:



You kidding right, surely you can't be this stupid.

If Israelis aircraft launch airstrikes against Syria and admits doing so in government publications it is fair to say the Israeli government is behind it at top level. An individual soldier might get trigger happy, but airstrikes only happen if the authorities order them. I am no fan of Israel but I dont believe that they lack discipline or that the IAF launches random bombing missions without orders, they may lack common morality but they are very careful what they do.

If somehow this is not enough that fact that links on this thread show Netanyahu talking about the airstrike should tell you who authorised it.

CNN wrote:Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the Israeli strikes on Syrian territory targeted elements "that not only facilitated, but also cooperated with, the attacks on our forces."

Please give your brain a chance.

Holy hell is English your second language? I'll TRY to address this...

Obviously the strikes were authorized by someone higher up than the artillerymen who fired the shots, and the pilots who dropped the bombs. The Israeli position is that Syria is responsible for controlling terrorists on its side of the border. The perpetrators were either A) Syrian government forces, B) Hezbollah forces fighting for Assad, or C) anti-government rebels. 2/3 of those cases put the blame directly on the government, and the government is still responsible for keeping its people (the Syrian people) from attacking Israel.

Furthermore, the IDF shot two Hezbollah terrorists who were trying to carry out a similar attack in the area. This indicates that Hezbollah was most likely behind this latest attack.

Again, you have provided ZERO evidence whatsoever that Netanyahu "wants" to attack Syria for any reason other than to RESPOND to these attacks. You have provided zero motive. Why would Netanyahu want to attack Syria? Just for fun? No...this was a response to an attack on Israeli soldiers that originated in Syria.

Your claims are completely unsubstantiated. You probably want to let the big kids talk this out as you have nothing pertinent to contribute aside from ad hominem attacks.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Again, you have provided ZERO evidence whatsoever that Netanyahu "wants" to attack Syria for any reason other than to RESPOND to these attacks. You have provided zero motive.

I provided evidence on my first post on the thread. Here is it again:

http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

It is regarding Israeli government reactions to comments by the White House. I will help you by highlighting the details in bold.

Israel is incensed that the Obama administration confirmed a recent Israeli airstrike on Syria's coast, The Times of Israel reports.
Late Wednesday night a Syrian base in the coastal area of Latakia — which held Russian-made surface-to-air missile systems — was destroyed.
The immediate speculation was that Israel was involved, but that wasn't certain until an unnamed White House official confirmed it to CNN.
On Friday Israeli officials told Israel’s Channel 10 TV that the American leak was “scandalous” and “unthinkable,” The Times notes.
Unnamed U.S. officials also confirmed Israeli strikes in January and July.
Israeli military analyst Roni Daniel said on Israel's Channel 2 that the leaks remove Israel's plausible deniability and “are pushing Assad closer to the point where he can’t swallow these attacks, and will respond."

So-

- White house leaked that Syria was being bombed by Israel
- Israeli admitted such afterwards but were upset that the White House had spilled the info to the media.
- Specirfically mentioning the removal of 'plausible deniability'. This means Israel wanted to bomb Syria and deny doing so.
- Mentioning that Assad might retaliate.

All this was provided on my first comment on this thread. So much for the hysterical yapping about ZERO evidence. Unless you consider the White House irrelevant as a source of topical political info.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Why would Netanyahu want to attack Syria? Just for fun? No...this was a response to an attack on Israeli soldiers that originated in Syria.

We don't know exactly why Netanyahu wants to be bomb Syria, all we know is that he has been doing so for some time according to the White House, and didn't want to disclose having done so. Hence comments on loss of plausible deniability.
'Plausible deniability' also strongly infers the desire to lie about the issue, so any stated motive listed now is not necessary honest.

Also when it comes to calling this a 'retaliation'. It clearly isnt, as Israel has a current pre-emptive bombing strategy as revealed. The whole issue then (and it wasn't too long ago) was to prevent Assad from having an excuse to retaliate himself, with this coming from an Israeli source it is self evident which way around the process of strike and retaliation is occurring and points out a deep and vile hypocrisy over claims of justification as retaliation.

As the sources mention bombing attacks by Israel in January 2013, July 2013, October 2013 and now backed up by Israeli government claims of airstrikes this year show that this is an ongoing policy of bombing Syria.

In a nutshell what Israel is saying can be summed up as: "We demand the sovereign right to openly retaliate without providing evidence of culpability of attacks we suffer, and also want to smother evidence of pre-emptive strikes we make as we believe there is no sovereign right to retaliate against us even if evidence of our culpability is provided."

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

Your claims are completely unsubstantiated. You probably want to let the big kids talk this out as you have nothing pertinent to contribute aside from ad hominem attacks.

As you have repeatedly claimed that I provided zero evidence, in spite of evidence that Israel itself does not deny. Then it is only fair to conclude that you were so tied up with the lie, and either you are too dumb or too dogmatised, it doesnt really matter which, but most likely the latter. Point remains you tried to shout me down, had you tried to argue a point I would do so back, but you havent tried to argue a point, just tried to drown out evidence by flat denial. Contempt is a perfectly reasonable response to this, and is not an ad hominem attack..

 Orlanth wrote:


I provided evidence on my first post on the thread. Here is it again:

http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-furious-at-obama-for-leaking-syria-strike-2013-11

These are two completely different incidents. This has nothing to do with an Israeli response to a cross-border attack which occurred months later.

Check the date on your article. It's from November 2013. Do you even read?

 Orlanth wrote:


We don't know exactly why Netanyahu wants to be bomb Syria, all we know is that he has been doing so for some time according to the White House, and didn't want to disclose having done so. Hence comments on loss of plausible deniability.
'Plausible deniability' also strongly infers the desire to lie about the issue, so any stated motive listed now is not necessary honest.

There's a difference between attacking specific STRATEGIC targets (i.e., weapons systems that are headed for Lebanon to be used by Hezbollah) and responding to a cross-border attack.

 Orlanth wrote:


Also when it comes to calling this a 'retaliation'. It clearly isnt, as Israel has a current pre-emptive bombing strategy as revealed.

These artillery and airstrikes were specific retaliation for the bombing. To claim otherwise without proof is complete idiocy. You have not presented any proof of an ulterior motive for these airstrikes and artillery strikes. Keep digging your hole deeper.

 Orlanth wrote:


In a nutshell what Israel is saying can be summed up as: "We demand the sovereign right to openly retaliate without providing evidence of culpability of attacks we suffer, and also want to smother evidence of pre-emptive strikes we make as we believe there is no sovereign right to retaliate against us even if evidence of our culpability is provided."

No. Wrong. Again. Israel is holding the Syrian government responsible for attacks originating from its own soil. Stop the attacks, and Israel will stop retaliating for them. Derp harder.

 Orlanth wrote:


As you have repeatedly claimed that I provided zero evidence, in spite of evidence that Israel itself does not deny. Then it is only fair to conclude that you were so tied up with the lie, and either you are too dumb or too dogmatised, it doesnt really matter which, but most likely the latter. Point remains you tried to shout me down, had you tried to argue a point I would do so back, but you havent tried to argue a point, just tried to drown out evidence by flat denial. Contempt is a perfectly reasonable response to this, and is not an ad hominem attack..

I really have no response to this whatsoever. Ad hominem attacks are the last refuge of someone who knows he has been completely and utterly defeated. Congratulations.