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Yup. Another Helldrake thread.

Sorry for dragging up a topic from 2013, but I'm questioning just how to bring one of these down reliably with Tau.

*Ducks barrage of hate-filled comments*

Right. Is the Skyray the only way to bring one of these down reliably before it can mess up my gunline something nasty? Are Railsides a better investment? How about Fusion suits with VTs?

No, before you mention it, I don't have a Riptide. Not for gaming at any rate.

a ADL + quad gun is nice to have for your Firewarriors all the tau players i meet have it and it helps allot when they face heldrakes ^^

I find with my tau that any heldrakes are quick shots to get rid of them.

Velocity tracker is essential
Early warning override helps too, and since its cheap, its worth having aswell.

25 points for the pair of them.

Just something ive been using more recently;

Riptide: Heavy burst cannon and tracker + override 205 points.
12 shots at S6 with rending works wonders against any flyers.

Or, 255 points for 3 railsides with tracker.


Either work, and if you have the points, both are worth taking if people in your area like to run any form of flyers.

A staple of Tau lists is a Buffmander (C&C, MSSS, Puretide). Join him to a Riptide with HBC and Skyfire (another nice staple of a quality Tau list). Additionally, you should take 2-3 Skyrays. Overall, Tau have a solid amount of anti-Drake without even having to resort to counterpicking.

Jackal wrote:I find with my tau that any heldrakes are quick shots to get rid of them.

Velocity tracker is essential
Early warning override helps too, and since its cheap, its worth having aswell.

25 points for the pair of them.

Just something ive been using more recently;

Riptide: Heavy burst cannon and tracker + override 205 points.
12 shots at S6 with rending works wonders against any flyers.

Or, 255 points for 3 railsides with tracker.


Either work, and if you have the points, both are worth taking if people in your area like to run any form of flyers.

I've considered the triple Railsides before, will probably look into it. The Riptide though, if I'm mathhammering right, only puts out 1 HP per shooting phase, which isn't too great IMO. Especially when you consider that a Skyray will put out 2.5 (again, assuming I've done the maths right.)

JGrand wrote:A staple of Tau lists is a Buffmander (C&C, MSSS, Puretide). Join him to a Riptide with HBC and Skyfire (another nice staple of a quality Tau list). Additionally, you should take 2-3 Skyrays. Overall, Tau have a solid amount of anti-Drake without even having to resort to counterpicking.

Hmm. Again, not got a Riptide to use, and wouldn't run a Buffmander with it anyways - not all of us Tau players run 100% cheddar y'know

To clarify, I've been running low points FSE suit lists, using teams with bust cannons/Plasma rifles and a fusion suit, with marker drones and a Dronemander. Not hyper competitive, but gets the job done. However, when it comes to anit air (and really, anti Helldrake, as I have enough mass Str5+ to down most other flyers I'll come across), I've been at a bit of a loss.

I'll also point out that my meta isn't really Netlists or tourney level, closer to the casual side of things.

VT Misslesides with a buffmander are probably the fastest way to bring a drake down. 12 Twin linked skyfire, no cover, Tank hunter S7 missiles should be able to glance it out of the air.

Over charged HBC on a riptide can bring it down, but I don't see it as reliable enough.

VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

Sadly vehicles cannot take VT's. I wish they could though.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

Sadly vehicles cannot take VT's. I wish they could though.

Killing Planes with Tanks is not without precedent.

 Gitsmasher wrote:

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

Sadly vehicles cannot take VT's. I wish they could though.

Sadly true. I believe you can replicate the effects with some Markerlight hits however.

The hilarious thing is, I run a Commander with Drone controller and 9-14 marker drones. While it's not at all guaranteed, I can expect to get one or two hits on. They'll probably go to the Skyfiring Broadsides, but in a pinch I could use them on a Railhead.

Also, unrelated, but what fresh hell is your avatar?

Buffmander with HBC riptide with velocity tracker or broadsides with drones works fine.

Marker drones or skyrays make short work of them as well.

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Buffmander with HBC riptide with velocity tracker or broadsides with drones works fine.

Marker drones or skyrays make short work of them as well.

You know that a Heldrake doesn't care about that right?, it is a Deamon...it have a 5+invul save..., so why bother with jink?

And what does Markers drones add to this? and explain how Skyrays makes short work of Drakes?

Skyrays can do well.

Missilesides with buffmander and missile drones can easily do it even without velocity trackers, get early warning so they can intercept it if it tries to get near them. With velocity trackers you better prepare for some serious overkill and waste of firepower.

Fusion crisis suits with velocity trackers are a kind of interesting take on it I have seen around. A bit risky.

Ignore the riptide...

There are a number of fortification that are pretty good against it. They can also add a little extra durability to your lists.

Are you playing a gunline Tau (boo, boring) or a mobile suit/vehicle Tau list(yay, dynamic)? What works will change depending.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Buffmander with HBC riptide with velocity tracker or broadsides with drones works fine.

Marker drones or skyrays make short work of them as well.

You know that a Heldrake doesn't care about that right?, it is a Deamon...it have a 5+invul save..., so why bother with jink?

And what does Markers drones add to this? and explain how Skyrays makes short work of Drakes?

You must be new. There is this thing called synergy.

Marker lights, increase the BS of units by +1 per marker light hit. So achieving even 1 marker light hit means anything else firing at the heldrake is firing at Bs2 or better. Skyrays are Bs4 and come with velocity tracker (optional skyfire) along with 2 networked marker lights, odds are I hit with both networked marker lights. That means I can:

A) Fire all the missiles at Bs5 achieving a glance and a pen on average.
B) Use it to increase the Bs of anything firing it by +2 like fusion gun toting suits.

Or I can just say screw it and have the buffmander with:

A) A velocity tracker, 12 shots with rerolls, rending, tank hunting heavy burst cannon riptide with fusion gun
B) 3 broadsides with HYM and missile drones 24 S7 shots with rerolls and tank hunting

Take your pick I can drop heldrakes all day.

Na not new, i just din't see the velocity tracker in the Skyray profil, only looked in the vehicles support systems and din't see it.

Also forgot that Markerlights actually works on overwatch, but you still need 6's for the Markerlights to hit it.

But thats funny cause no one of the Taus players i've met, ever dropped my Drake as you describ it, , when you don't hit it or if the saves succed, you can't do anything about it i guess.

 ansacs wrote:
Skyrays can do well.

Missilesides with buffmander and missile drones can easily do it even without velocity trackers, get early warning so they can intercept it if it tries to get near them. With velocity trackers you better prepare for some serious overkill and waste of firepower.

Fusion crisis suits with velocity trackers are a kind of interesting take on it I have seen around. A bit risky.

Ignore the riptide...

There are a number of fortification that are pretty good against it. They can also add a little extra durability to your lists.

Are you playing a gunline Tau (boo, boring) or a mobile suit/vehicle Tau list(yay, dynamic)? What works will change depending.

As much of a hybrid list as I can make, so there's a couple of Firewarrior squads that sit back with an Ethereal, some roaming suit squads, a stealth team, so on.

Again, my meta isn't super competitive, so I'm rather loathe to bring a full Buffmander, at all. A toned down version giving re-rolls and PEN wouldn't be too bad.
Oh, and let's not go into Riptides for anti air. I don't have one to use, and they're not reliable enough IMO.

Well, it appears I was mistaken about the VT on the railhead, my apologies. You can, however, simulate the effect with a markerlight cascade.

There is also the missile pod hammer head turret in IA3:2ed. While only S7, still decent. (Which does have a VT).

I'm also very fond of Remora drones.

I have yet to get one, but the Barracuda looks (on paper) as if it would be fairly decent anti-air. It's a flyer with an Ionhead weapon.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

Also, unrelated, but what fresh hell is your avatar?

It's obviously Zook, the Chaos God of smugness and moustaches.

I've had luck just shooting it in the rear with tons of STR 5. I run my FW in fishes, so I can usually run at least one squad behind the 'drake, after kiting with either a stealth squad or another FW team.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Na not new, i just din't see the velocity tracker in the Skyray profil, only looked in the vehicles support systems and din't see it.

Also forgot that Markerlights actually works on overwatch, but you still need 6's for the Markerlights to hit it.

But thats funny cause no one of the Taus players i've met, ever dropped my Drake as you describ it, , when you don't hit it or if the saves succed, you can't do anything about it i guess.

Its all about the buffmander, the reroll hits + tank hunter + ignores cover + target lock messes up so many things in this edtion.

With broadsides that's 24 Bs1 shots that works out to 7 hits after rerolls and works out to 3 or 4 damage results even with the 5++. A lot of people crap on the burst cannon riptide but when combined with the buffmander it is absolutely brutal against tanks and flyers, especially when in the Ovesastar.

Oh i'm not saying that the buffmander is useless or anything, just that previously in the discussion people where so on about the markers and stuff ignoring Cover and Jinks, when the drake doesn't care about it.

But even so i don't believe in mathammer, seen too many times stuff that where supossed to be sure hits to fail miserably.

it is and always will be pure luck, since we use little squares to roll specific results.

Also this all factors in that the only threat you must focus on is the Drake, thus ignoring the rest of the army( well konda, seeing all the shots you have anyway, but still its a what, 300pts unit focusing all his might on a 170pts model?, i call that a win personnaly)

The only 'trick' with Tau vs drakes is realising that if a skyray stands still it can fire all its missiles at once. All the rest of the gear is blindingly obvious 'hey i give you skyfire'.

its going to wreck face even if it only gets to shoot once but that's because its a good unit. There are not really any super secret hard counters .

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:

maceria wrote:
VT on a railhead, with some marker support for ignores cover (no jink). Bonus points for Longstrike since it's a vehicle.

Surprisingly few people expect their mechanical bird to be one-shotted by a MBT.

Sadly vehicles cannot take VT's. I wish they could though.

Sadly true. I believe you can replicate the effects with some Markerlight hits however.

The hilarious thing is, I run a Commander with Drone controller and 9-14 marker drones. While it's not at all guaranteed, I can expect to get one or two hits on. They'll probably go to the Skyfiring Broadsides, but in a pinch I could use them on a Railhead.

Also, unrelated, but what fresh hell is your avatar?

It's the wizard from one of the rather infamous Legend of Zelda CDI games (the gameplay is passable, but the cutscenes need to be seen to be believed), Faces of Evil I think.

 Kain wrote:

It's the wizard from one of the rather infamous Legend of Zelda CDI games (the gameplay is passable, but the cutscenes need to be seen to be believed), Faces of Evil I think.

Also know as the Legendary bad game!, this thing is horrid...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Kain wrote:

It's the wizard from one of the rather infamous Legend of Zelda CDI games (the gameplay is passable, but the cutscenes need to be seen to be believed), Faces of Evil I think.

Also know as the Legendary bad game!, this thing is horrid...

The gameplay is, as noted by the angry video game nerd, not the worst thing ever. But the Cutscenes are so laughably inept that they've passed onto internet legend.

Now Mindjack on the other hand...

Dude...in the snow/ice level there is unmovable, nearly impossible to touch ennemies with 100hp's that only the bombs can touch, but you need like 10 bombs per ennemy to get them, and each bomb cost like 50 or 80 rupees( can't remember, was so long ago), but the ennemies would respawn if you quited the screen to go back to the vendor and buy more bombs because you ran out of bombs...

if this isn't bad gameplay or the worst, i dunno what is...