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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/26/college-football-players-can-unionize-federal-agency-says/

In a ruling that could revolutionize college athletics, a federal agency ruled Wednesday that college football players at Northwestern University can unionize.

The decision by a regional director of the National Labor Relations Board means it agrees football players at the Big Ten school qualify as employees under federal law and therefore can create the nation's first college athlete's union..

The Evanston, Ill-based university argued college athletes, as students, don't fit in the same category as factory workers, truck drivers and other unionized workers. The school plans to appeal to labor authorities in Washington, D.C.

"While we respect the NLRB process and the regional director's opinion, we disagree with it," a statement from Northwestern University read.

"Northwestern believes strongly that our student-athletes are not employees, but students. Unionization and collective bargaining are not the appropriate methods to address the concerns raised by student-athletes."

Outgoing Wildcats quarterback Kain Colter took a leading role in establishing the College Athletes Players Association, or CAPA, which would take the lead in organizing the players. The United Steelworkers union has been footing the legal bills.

Colter, whose eligibility has been exhausted and who has entered the NFL draft, said nearly all of the 85 scholarship players on the Wildcats roster backed the union bid, though only he expressed his support publicly.

CAPA attorneys argued that college football is, for all practical purposes, a commercial enterprise that relies on players' labor to generate billions of dollars in profits. That, they contend, makes the relationship of schools to players one of employers to employees.

In its endeavor to have college football players be recognized as essential workers, CAPA likened scholarships to employment pay -- too little pay from its point of view. Northwestern balked at that claim, describing scholarship as grants.

Giving college athletes employee status and allowing them to unionize, critics have argued, could hurt college sports in numerous ways -- including by raising the prospects of strikes by disgruntled players or lockouts by athletic departments.

The NCAA has been under increasing scrutiny over its amateurism rules and is fighting a class-action federal lawsuit by former players seeking a cut of the billions of dollars earned from live broadcasts, memorabilia sales and video games. Other lawsuits allege the NCAA failed to protect players from debilitating head injuries.

NCAA President Mark Emmert has pushed for a $2,000-per-player stipend to help athletes defray some of expenses. Critics say that isn't nearly enough, considering players help bring in millions of dollars to their schools and conferences.

CAPA's specific goals include guaranteeing coverage of sports-related medical expenses for current and former players, ensuring better procedures to reduce head injuries and potentially letting players pursue commercial sponsorships.

For now, the push is to unionize athletes at private schools, such as Northwestern, because the federal labor agency does not have jurisdiction over public universities.

During the NLRB's five days of hearings in February, Wildcats coach Pat Fitzgerald took the stand for union opponents, and his testimony sometimes was at odds with Colter's.

Colter told the hearing that players' performance on the field was more important to Northwestern than their in-class performance, saying, "You fulfill the football requirement and, if you can, you fit in academics." Asked why Northwestern gave him a scholarship of $75,000 a year, he responded: "To play football. To perform an athletic service."

But Fitzgerald said he tells players academics come first, saying, "We want them to be the best they can be ... to be a champion in life."

An attorney representing the university, Alex Barbour, noted Northwestern has one of the highest graduation rates for college football players in the nation, around 97 percent. Barbour insisted, "Northwestern is not a football factory."


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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The Great State of New Jersey

I for one would be quite glad if college sports ceased to be a major thing and higher education returned to being a place of learning rather than another way for people to get their sports fix.

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The Great State of Texas

Agreed.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

I hope Northwestern blocks any player that decides to unionize from their respective sport under the premise that, as union members, they're employees, and as employees, they're professionals.

And we all know no professionals in the NCAA.

 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 cincydooley wrote:
I hope Northwestern blocks any player that decides to unionize from their respective sport under the premise that, as union members, they're employees, and as employees, they're professionals.

And we all know no professionals in the NCAA.



While the sentiment is nice, I don't think NW could survive without any of its sports programs. While theyre not a powerhouse by any stretch they, like so many other schools do depend on the money brought in through the sports programs.


I honestly think the NCAA is just about finished... They're the proverbial Ivan Drago. Right now, they're in their corner, bloodied saying "he's not a man, he's like hitting a piece of iron"
   
Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

 cincydooley wrote:
I hope Northwestern blocks any player that decides to unionize from their respective sport under the premise that, as union members, they're employees, and as employees, they're professionals.

And we all know no professionals in the NCAA.


I thought lockouts were illegal under current labor law.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/26 22:24:34


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Wait, Can College Sports have "Scrubs"? I doupt that they can hire cheap labor off the street for football games.
Also, What will their Union Dues come from?

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yeah, this whole situation screams what we in the army call a "Barracks Lawyer" probably some 3rd string football player, who is in pre-law or something and thought this would be a good idea.


Honestly, anything to bring down an organization as corrupt as the NCAA is good, but I dont know how effective this will be overall.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Perth/Glasgow

This has been a long time coming to be honest.
The NCAA has made millions upon millions off the nation wide showing of collegiate level sports while denying the players a penny for their efforts. Unfortunately a lot of US Universities really on the income their sports programmes make to completely cut it off would be suicide, better to exploit a few to educate ten times their number than to not be able to educate them at all


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wait, Can College Sports have "Scrubs"? I doubt that they can hire cheap labour off the street for football games.
Also, What will their Union Dues come from?


The term is a "Scab" Scrubs is what you wear in a hospital
And College football teams have walk-on players already, usually just kickers or second string special teamers but they do exist, The assumption would be if the players went on strike the program could conceivably recruit from within their own student body.
Union dues I would assume would come from the players being union members and all

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/27 01:09:41


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I mean, how would they PAY the Dues?

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Perth/Glasgow

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean, how would they PAY the Dues?


They can have part time jobs or use money their parents give them for living expenses while at college to pay for union dues

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 01:44:37


Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing 
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Seems silly to join something like a Union you'd only be part of for a few years at most.

I doubt it would be anything like other unions, I can't tell if that would be good or bad though.

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Cincinnati, Ohio

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
This has been a long time coming to be honest.
The NCAA has made millions upon millions off the nation wide showing of collegiate level sports while denying the players a penny for their efforts. Unfortunately a lot of US Universities really on the income their sports programmes make to completely cut it off would be suicide, better to exploit a few to educate ten times their number than to not be able to educate them at all 0


Nonsense.

Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012.


Further, Northwestern's endowment is valued at nearly $8 BILLION as of 2013 and their Athletic department doesn't make a dime

Many athletic departments actually have to take subsidies to sustain their programs. Most recently, Rutgers had to take a $47 Million subsidy from it's general fund.

I guess what I'm saying is that your assertion that "a lot of US Universities [sic]rely on the income of their sports..." is laughably incorrect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 01:57:35


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean, how would they PAY the Dues?


They can have part time jobs or use money their parents give them for living expenses while at college to pay for union dues


Or roll it into tuition like you can with other school associated fees.

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Cincinnati, Ohio

 Frazzled wrote:


I thought lockouts were illegal under current labor law.


Would it be a lockout?

I mean, by rule of the NCAA they can't have professionals competing. By unionizing, they'd disqualify themselves.

Digging into this farther, are ALL scholarship students, including those on Academic or other merit based scholarships (marching band, for instance, at Ohio State), now considered employees of the university?

 
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
I hope Northwestern blocks any player that decides to unionize from their respective sport under the premise that, as union members, they're employees, and as employees, they're professionals.

And we all know no professionals in the NCAA.



While the sentiment is nice, I don't think NW could survive without any of its sports programs. While theyre not a powerhouse by any stretch they, like so many other schools do depend on the money brought in through the sports programs.


LOL. Northwestern has something like a $2 BILLION budget. The most profitable athletic departments in the NCAA only make $10-20 million profit, and there's only a handful of those. Many only hover around breakeven.

If the revenue sports (football and men's basketball) disappeared tomorrow, the pain would be felt by the other sports, which rely on football and basketball money to operate. But it's very wrong to think that a major research institution is somehow reliant on sports programs to pay the bills.


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 gorgon wrote:
The most profitable athletic departments in the NCAA only make $10-20 million profit, and there's only a handful of those. Many only hover around breakeven.


And how much of this "low profit" is due to investing all of the revenue right back into obscene salaries (and benefits) for coaches, expensive new stadiums/workout facilities, etc?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Too much

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Cincinnati, Ohio



Enlightened. Wow. Thanks for adding so, so very much to the conversation.

 
   
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No need to be a smartass

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This next is accounting for State colleges, and not private:


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
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The second graph. That isnt sad t depressing AT ALL

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Yeah, whats with a freaking Hockey coach getting paid more than a Football coach?

Clearly the Canadians have been covertly subverting Vermont's youth!

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The second graph. That isnt sad t depressing AT ALL


No, it isn't.

Those basketball and football programs FUND THE ENTIRE athletic departments for their respective universities.

At Ohio State, for example, that includes 34 Sports that operate at a deficit and over 800 other student athlete scholarships.

The head football coach at Ohio State, or Alabama, or USC, or Texas is probably worth more than they're actually getting paid.

 
   
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 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The second graph. That isnt sad t depressing AT ALL


No, it isn't.

Those basketball and football programs FUND THE ENTIRE athletic departments for their respective universities.

At Ohio State, for example, that includes 34 Sports that operate at a deficit and over 800 other student athlete scholarships.

The head football coach at Ohio State, or Alabama, or USC, or Texas is probably worth more than they're actually getting paid.

I consider the coach making more then the teachers sad.

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Cincinnati, Ohio

And listen: I think the NCAA is about as corrupt as FIFA, but I don't think the players are entitled to any pay from the universities.

What I DO think they should be allowed to get endorsements that follow similar guidelines to what Olympians do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I consider the coach making more then the teachers sad.


Okay? Great? Tons of people make more money than teachers.

I'm a former teacher and I don't think teachers should get paid what a tier-1 coach at a power university does.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/27 03:02:45


 
   
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That isnt what im talking about, what im talking about is those coaches making more money then teachers, all the money getting funded INTO the athletic department and no where else. My school just got brand new workout equipment, but for some reason im a a class with no proper overhead, No air conditioning and a class of 40 in a room meant to hold 25. I feel No sympathy there for football players who complain

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Made in us
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 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

The term is a "Scab" Scrubs is what you wear in a hospital
And College football teams have walk-on players already, usually just kickers or second string special teamers but they do exist, The assumption would be if the players went on strike the program could conceivably recruit from within their own student body.


He was using the term scrub in reference to using sports players who have no business playing at that level.


And the term "walk on", especially for football is slightly wrong or at least, out dated. Generally speaking, when you have larger schools, such as USC, Oregon, Bama, etc. and they have limited number of scholarships, or they think that with some work, you could end up playing on their team by your senior year, they will send out an invite to "walk on" to the tryouts. If I just showed up to the first day of spring/fall training and said, " Im here to play ball" theyd laugh at me, call security and remove me from the area. Basically, almost none of us on this site could simply walk up to a college team's practice around tryouts, talk to a coach and say that you want to try out, doesnt work that way.
   
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Cincinnati, Ohio

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That isnt what im talking about, what im talking about is those coaches making more money then teachers, all the money getting funded INTO the athletic department and no where else.


Except that isn't true. I mean, did you click on a single link that I posted above? While nearly all of the athletic departments do get subsidies from their universities, they're incredibly small amounts compared to a university's general operating budget and endowment, ESPECIALLY at AAU member schools.


My school just got brand new workout equipment, but for some reason im a a class with no proper overhead, No air conditioning and a class of 40 in a room meant to hold 25. I feel No sympathy there for football players who complain


And? I'm failing to see what the point of this complaint is. Heaven forbid the university promote healthy activities for the student body, right? No air conditioning? OH NO! Whatever will you do?!?! All those summer classes when the whole student population is in Session in those hot Late July and August months. Oh wait.. What? General classes typically aren't in session then? Huh......

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/27 03:12:33


 
   
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You dont live in cali do you? Many times, especially in my area, it can reach 90-92 IN JANUARY

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