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I fought for two years in Iraq in order to go to college and they have to play football. I feel no sympathy for the players.

 Sasori wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
YES I am. You arent in the class where the heat is so bad, two people(Including me) have passed out

Go to a better college.

And if he has already paid? Or if he wasn't accepted to a different college.

I actually just got accepted into UC SC. But my point still stands. It is horrible to subject students to that

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
YES I am. You arent in the class where the heat is so bad, two people(Including me) have passed out

Go to a better college.

And if he has already paid? Or if he wasn't accepted to a different college.

Then it's his fault in some way, shape or form.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its not just the fluke days(Those are the worst) Even on mild days it is bad because the sun is directly going through those window, like a magnyfying glass.
Listen Cincy, You are just trolling now.

I'm not trolling. I think your complaint is a pretty clear case of first world problems and is a really, really petty complaint.

And "I'm pissed as hell because college football players are unionizing" isn't a first world problem?

Its still an overall budget for the University.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

If that's what they think is a good plan, then sure, do that. I doubt they will, because even though football is important those other sports add enough value to the school that they're willing to invest in them.

What value is that, exactly? It certainly isn't financial.

Prestige. Schools continue to subsidize less-profitable sports for the prestige of having a winning team, instead of just dumping that money into buying a nicer stadium or hiring better coaches for the football team. This isn't going to change just because the football players are getting paid.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Because most of those athletes aren't getting degrees for free or anything...

You do realize we're talking about an industry full of academic fraud, right? Where important athletes take "classes" that never meet, have no assignments, and just give a passing grade at the end of it? Where athletes with the reading level of a small child have "tutors" write all of their papers? Where anyone with professional-level talent plays a couple years in "college" and then leaves for the professional draft, without any intent of ever completing their "degree"? Where even the programs that aren't full of blatant fraud have "students" getting useless "degrees" like "leisure studies" or "recreation management" or whatever, for the sole purpose of meeting academic eligibility requirements?

I'm sure some athletes are making good use of their academic opportunities, but we shouldn't pretend that this is all about legitimate students who just happen to play a fun game in their spare time.

Actually... the NFL may not want this either.

Think... if starting college players are allowed endorsements and such...and banking money. Why would there be a rush to leave for the NFL?

I'm actually in favor of this, because it seems that the NCAA/Schools are grossly profiteering at the expense of the student-athletes.

 whembly wrote:


I'm actually in favor of this, because it seems that the NCAA/Schools are grossly profiteering at the expense of the student-athletes.

Not only that, but there are certainly programs out there (Florida State) who have Mafia like powers on their campuses... Their football players can do no wrong, from "minor" things like not actually passing courses, to actively threatening instructors for grades, etc. While a Union won't solve these sorts of problems, it should get rid of the NCAA who, depending on the school, just turn a blind eye to these sorts of things.

Oh yes. Unionizing will definitely get rid of any mafia like tendencies.

 cincydooley wrote:
Oh yes. Unionizing will definitely get rid of any mafia like tendencies.

The 1970s called, they want you mob-controlled unions back... also, send some bell-bottoms and platform shoes, they are running dangerously low.

On a semi-related note, this is the funniest thing I've seen concerning this story since it first made news:

I mean, sure:

http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news&id=245994371

God bless the 70s, eh?

Oh gak? That's from this year? Whoops.

I'm glad that college fans never do any of those things...

 cincydooley wrote:
I mean, sure:

http://mobile.philly.com/news/?wss=/philly/news&id=245994371

God bless the 70s, eh?

Oh gak? That's from this year? Whoops.

Oh noes! Some shady ironworkers from one of the most goony cities in America (sorry Philly...) got charged with racketeering? I guess that means everyone in organized labor is a mafioso in your imaginary universe of absolutes.

Next...

 d-usa wrote:
I'm glad that college fans never do any of those things...

wut?

Did I miss something?

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I'm glad that college fans never do any of those things...

wut?

Did I miss something?

You've never read a single story about college fans brawling?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/09/12/texas-football-fan-nearly-castrated-in-bar-fight-in-oklahoma-bar/

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I'm glad that college fans never do any of those things...

wut?

Did I miss something?

You've never read a single story about college fans brawling?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/09/12/texas-football-fan-nearly-castrated-in-bar-fight-in-oklahoma-bar/

Duh... sorry, now I understand.

College fans can get cray-cray... like soccer hooligan cray-cray.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:


Oh noes! Some shady ironworkers from one of the most goony cities in America (sorry Philly...) got charged with racketeering? I guess that means everyone in organized labor is a mafioso in your imaginary universe of absolutes.

I wasn't the one dealing in absolutes.

I'm not the one that said, "the 70s called and blah blah blah."

So let's not claim that I did, or claim that Union intimidation and good tactics don't still exist. Are they as rampant? No. But neither is "threatening instructors for grades, etc" rampant, as was used in the example, either.

 whembly wrote:

College fans can get cray-cray... like soccer hooligan cray-cray.

Nobody gets cray-cray like soccer hooligans get cray-cray

 Peregrine wrote:


Prestige. Schools continue to subsidize less-profitable sports for the prestige of having a winning team, instead of just dumping that money into buying a nicer stadium or hiring better coaches for the football team. This isn't going to change just because the football players are getting paid.

If you think there's any prestige outside of the two revenue sports, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Who won the all-sports trophy last year?

How about women's field hockey?

Now ask those two questions, along with "who won the BCS championship" and "who won the NCAA Tournament" to a few people. Your average consumer of college athletics will be able to tell you the last two, but not the first two.

As to academics:

Let them major in their sports. Let their weight training and practice count towards their degree, because for many of them their chosen profession is....SPORTS! Then fill out the rest of that curriculum with classes like brand management, marketing, personal finance and accounting, public speaking, etc. You know, gak that will actually matter to them when they're professional athletes. Then give them the option to specialize in something like broadcasting or coaching. Not allowing them to major in something pertinent to their chosen profession LIKE EVERY OTHER STUDENT is a problem. And it's fixable.

As to pay:

Normally I'd be all about letting them 'negotiate for their individual value' (though I do happen to think unions still aren't necessary for this), but f you do that will college football and college basketball, it will have repercussions that reach much farther than those two sports. There's already a huge gap between the type of players Ohio State and Alabama and USC can get vs. the type of player Ohio University, Grambling, and San Diego State can get. Give those universities the opportunity to pay for players officially? That gap will widen even further and it'll kill any semblance of competition that still exists in the sport.

I'm not against giving athletes from revenue producing sports (or even all, really) a stipend. I think they should be able to profit from their likeness (as is the issue in the O'Bannon lawsuit) and through third party endorsement deals along the lines of Olympic athletes. I'm hypothetically fine with them getting jobs, but there would need to be some oversight to ensure that said player was actually "earning" their paycheck. And there's the problem, as the NCAA has proven time and time again that they couldn't oversee their way out of a cardboard box.

Do I personally think the scholarships, free meals, free room and board, free clothing, free shoes, etc. are more than enough. I do. My friends and family that played Division 1 sports also do (best man in my wedding played football at Bowling Green, good friend from HS Pitched at Michigan and got drafted, Uncle played football at Ohio State; Uncle played football at Kentucky; cousin played football at Kent State; cousin presently playing at Miami Ohio). But thats all subjective and anecdotal.

Another solution is obviously to force the NFL to create their own "farm system" like the NBA, NHL, and MLB have. Is that feasible? I don't know.

This is just sad
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html

I could go on about this for quite a while. It's very complicated.

The revenue sports have become a ridiculous arms race, especially in football. I think people thought that all the realignment into 5 major conferences created the haves and have-nots, but it's even more stratified than that. Look at Texas compared to the rest of the Big 12 schools. The reality is that even if you're in one of the big 5, you might end up pouring all that big TV money back into your revenue sports in an effort to keep up with the Joneses in your conference and elsewhere.

So YES, the overall money has gotten obscene, but most programs are only barely breaking even. So you're seeing schools cut programs. The trend is NOT in favor of non-revenue sports. Temple right here in Philly is a perfect example.

http://articles.philly.com/2014-02-26/news/47674851_1_temple-university-fred-turoff-temple-board

Have you guys seen the facilities and services these athletes have now at bigger schools? They often don't have the same rooms as normal students, they definitely don't eat the same as regular students, and they have access to their own tutors, doctors, etc. Their experience is less and less like that of a regular student all the time.

And as far as money goes, some have more than you think. Did you know that they get a dollar amount for their housing if they want to live off-campus? So what they do is find an apartment, room together, split the costs, and end with with a few hundred a month in their pockets.

I don't feel that bad for them regarding finances. It does seem unfair for the star athletes that the schools can make so much off their likenesses, etc. On the other hand, this opens a Pandora's box. If the star athletes are worth more to the schools and so deserve more compensation, what happens to the backups? Partial scholarships?

One thing that I think truly stinks for these athletes is that "4-year scholarships" don't really exist. They get renewed on a yearly basis. So coaches and programs can strip scholarships away from players whenever they want. Usually they'll just encourage the athlete to transfer elsewhere where there might be a scholarship for them. I think there should legitimately be 4-year scholarships that can't be cancelled except for misconduct or whatever.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
This is just sad
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html

Cool story. The North Carolina grades scandal is pretty well documented. This is nothing people didn't already know.

This also isn't the case at every university. At all.

I mean, we get it. Athletes were mean to you when you were in high school so you've got a stereotypical nerds vs. jocks attitude.

Read those links I posted earlier, yet?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:


One thing that I think truly stinks for these athletes is that "4-year scholarships" don't really exist. They get renewed on a yearly basis. So coaches and programs can strip scholarships away from players whenever they want. Usually they'll just encourage the athlete to transfer elsewhere where there might be a scholarship for them. I think there should legitimately be 4-year scholarships that can't be cancelled except for misconduct or whatever.

This is especially a problem in the SEC with grey shirting.

I know most of the better academic institutions (Northwestern, Stanford, ) guarantee their scholarships for the life of the player's eligibility, regardless of whether or not they can play. I know Ohio State also encourages it's players to continue their educations, and has begun to grant scholarships to athletes that do graduate to continue their graduate studies.

 cincydooley wrote:
As to academics:

Let them major in their sports. Let their weight training and practice count towards their degree, because for many of them their chosen profession is....SPORTS! Then fill out the rest of that curriculum with classes like brand management, marketing, personal finance and accounting, public speaking, etc. You know, gak that will actually matter to them when they're professional athletes. Then give them the option to specialize in something like broadcasting or coaching. Not allowing them to major in something pertinent to their chosen profession LIKE EVERY OTHER STUDENT is a problem. And it's fixable

You know, this actually seems to be the best option to me. Of course you then run into issues about pay, since they would be just another student getting a major (I personally think that paying someone to throw a ball around is the height of ignorance and professional sports shouldn't be a thing, but that doesn't mean that other people think the same way). I guess they could just be treated like any other student working a student job being employed for the university, and bet paid for time spent playing the sport.

Also I am a tutor for student athletes at a university at the moment. Fortunately I'm an engineer and tutor engineering classes, so I mainly get people from the fencing and rowing teams who play sports because they enjoy it and are reasonably good at it, but plan on getting an engineering job once they graduate. Not going to lie, it's kinda a 50/50 split even in that group between people who are some of the smartest most motivated people I have ever met, and people who are dumber than a bag of hammers but yet somehow manage to not fail. I can't even imagine what the percentage is for people in "big" sports who might actually have some shot at continuing to play sports after college.

Kind of a side note, but the 50/50 split I mentioned earlier has almost universally in my experience been divided up between ladies who are motivated and dumb guys. I don't know why...

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
This is just sad
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html

Cool story. The North Carolina grades scandal is pretty well documented. This is nothing people didn't already know.

This also isn't the case at every university. At all.

I mean, we get it. Athletes were mean to you when you were in high school so you've got a stereotypical nerds vs. jocks attitude.

Read those links I posted earlier, yet?

1: It was just a story I found, to avoid making a similiar topic I posted this
2: Athletes where actually quite nice, most kept to themselves. Some where asses, but they had the personalities to be asses even if they where not athletes
3: I hate the schools, a place for learning, promote such stupid and destructive behavior within. The link I posted hurts the Athlete as much as much as others. What if he doesnt go pro? He just wasted a big part of his life
4: You posted links? Must have missed them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

3: I hate the schools, a place for learning, promote such stupid and destructive behavior within. The link I posted hurts the Athlete as much as much as others. What if he doesnt go pro? He just wasted a big part of his life

You mean like admitting people that probably shouldn't be there in the first place? Because we admit so many mediocre people today, universities, save for the top 20 or so in the country, are expensive vocational schools with the express purpose of preparing people for the profession they want to enter. Believe it or not, you don't need to know gak about African American studies to be a successful football or basketball player, nor will the knowledge of Rosa Parks' ride help you when you're trying to gain endorsement deals after getting drafted.

It's like anything else in education: make the class relevant and applicable to the student and what they want to do and they're more likely to put forth the effort needed to learn and retain the information you're trying to teach.

4: You posted links? Must have missed them.

Multiple. You ignored them earlier when I pointed them out, too.

I honestly have not seen what links you are refering too.

And No, If we where to ONLY learn things that pertained to our interests, we would have a stagnating society, not to mention a boring one, where the only thing people are qualified to know are tthe stuff the learned for their job. What sports are SUPPOSED to be in college is a side thing for students to do while they get something useful, not an actual career.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:


And No, If we where to ONLY learn things that pertained to our interests, we would have a stagnating society, not to mention a boring one, where the only thing people are qualified to know are tthe stuff the learned for their job. What sports are SUPPOSED to be in college is a side thing for students to do while they get something useful, not an actual career.

I'd say "Pro Football Player" is far more useful than "Art History Major."

And it seems like you may be unaware, but 'Professional Athlete' is an actual career these days.

Id say pro foot ball players doesnt add much to Society.
And really, out of ALL the athletes there are in schools, who end up and Pros?

Isn't that what college is about? Learning the things that pertain to your greater interests. Studying for some ultimate goal for...you know... a job. That is what I go to class for. I want to be a physicist. So I kind of would like to learn mainly physics.

That is why I am inclined to agree with cincydooley on this one. If the student athlete has the goal of being a professional athlete (or working in professional athletics in some fashion) and this goal is attainable (like you are at Ohio State), then the university should offer some form of major to facilitate this. This might help to encourage the athletes to be more productive academically (if they weren't already).