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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.

The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.

I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.

GW is bad at math in general. Actually I can show you some low ball number crunching a friend and I did assuming populations on planets were on the lower end listed for their types based on type of planet they were which basically throws GW numbers for Sisters out the window pretty fast.

It's been a long running tradition that there aren't that many Battle Sisters in the fluff (about 100K total Sisters...maybe.) So a friend and I sat down and decided to crunch some numbers (for the purposes of the exercise we lowballed most of these numbers to try and feel out a low number that we could expect) with the goal to work out how many Sororitas (and then how many Battle Sisters) there should be in the Imperium as we agreed that due to the size and scale of the Imperium, the Ecclesiarchy and the scope of the duties of the Sisters their numbers just weren't high enough at 100,000.

To keep the numbers reasonably low we worked off the following rules:

1% of the entire Imperium meets the very basic criteria to be considered for becoming a Sororitas.
1% of those complete their "basic" training successfully
1% of those are on active status at any time (the other 99% have been deactivated for any number of reasons). This last one was to really just push the number a lot lower based on the "gak happens" quotient.
50% of the final total is Militant Orders, the rest is divided into the various Non-Militant Orders (which makes each of those smaller than the combined Militant Orders).

So running some basic numbers we figured that from the Hive Worlds (all 32,380 of them) had a rough average of 50,000,000,000 (we went with 50 Billion a Hive, which is about the middle of the range (10-100,000,000,000), and 10 Hive a planet, which is a bit lower than half as the range is 5-20) 16,190,000,000,000,000 people on the hives.

To keep the math easy we went with an average of 5 Billion people on average on every other planet in the Imperium (working from 1,000,000 that means 967,620 worlds) which is lower than our current population on Earth. That gave us another 4,838,100,000,000,000 more people.

This gave us a total of 21,028,100,000,000,000 people in the Imperium on a lowball math run.

Of these 210,281,000,000,000 meet the very basic criteria.
Of those 2,102,810,000,000 complete the basic training.
Of those 21,028,100,000 are on any kind of active duty.
Of those 10,514,050,000 are Battle Sisters.

So in short we think that about 10.5 Billion Battle Sisters makes much more sense in the fluff, or the Sisters have an attrition rate that makes even the Imperial Guard look

This means the Imperium -should- have roughly 10,514 Sisters per World. Assuming all 1 Million Planets had Sisters on them. And that 10.5 Billion Sisters? 0.00005% of the Imperium's pop so they're still plenty "selective" and "elite" given the scale of the setting. To give you a comparitive idea, it's like having 3 Sisters of Battle per state in the US in terms of comparative scale we're talking here.

And just for fun, let's assume that 10% of the entire Imperium become Guard (tithes and all that). We'd have 2,102,810,000,000,000 Guardsmen (not counting Commisars or Storm Troopers since those come from the Schola and you can probably have as many of them as you do Sisters pretty easilly, if not even more). So yeah, GW's numbers make me laugh because using the numbers they give you can VERY quickly extrapolate a lot more of things than they say. I mean they talk about "Billions of Guardsmen" when it seems they should be talking about "Trillions" if not "Quadrillions" of Guardsmen instead.

Having no sense of scale seems to be endemic to fiction writers as a whole. It's perhaps most obvious in science fiction and fantasy, but it is an endemic issue. It's one thing GW is not the sole culprit of and some settings have it even worse (Yeah Star Wars, 200,000 clones can totally defend an entire galaxy) , but I think we've all made fun of the idea of a single guard regiment or space marine company taking an entire planet.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Tau's sublight speed thing that keeps them from being a real proper threat bugs me actually when I think about it.

The tidbit about the Tau only having STL drives is very quickly contradicted by their timetable showing them crossing X-light years in less than X years.

I personally ignore GW's fetish for mucking with pre-established FTL systems and it seems that the BL and FW also ignore it.

And tau do have FTL, I even have the sheet from BFG that says so. Tau also have NLS engines making them possible faster than imperial ones in real-space, not sure though.

NLS engines and warp skipper drives are what they primarily use if memory serves right?

I recall reading something about the Tau being interested in the FTL systems of other races, particularly ones that aren't reliant on the warp.

In any case, if the 5 times standard imperial real space engine thing is correct, and we know that Imperial ships prefer to accelerate to about 0.75c, that means that Tau ships can traverse real space at 3.75c without even hitting their warp skipper drives. Not amazingly fast but enough to open up interesting tactical possibilities or get away to a nearby system in a reasonable span of time even if warp shenanigans are taking place.

The ignores cover rule. It's not a bad rule but it feels like it's been handed out to much. Why add terrain if most armies I face anymore can just ignore it?

That terminators only have 1 wound. That terminators don't have a 4++ simply because they where 4-inches of metal.
That terminators cost so much.

Some more things that baffle me and my wife.

That GW, knowing full well that Banshees were long considered a rather mediocre unit due to not having the right strength value or sufficient weight of attacks to actually be efficient against the MEQs and TEQs their load-out suggests is their prime target in 5e, and knowing that they were one of the units hardest hit by the rules changes in 6e denying them assaulting out of transports ever, turning their charges into chancey things, and gutting their effectiveness against TEQ and FNP units; saw fit to give the Banshees a lateral boost at best. You know, rather than give them the assault through cover at initiative, furious charge, and/or assault transports they needed. This isn't even touching how they effectively lost all their teeth against the TEQs they once terrified by ignoring their armor saves and striking way before they did.

I mean, at least wyches still have an invulnerable save, open top transports, and haywire grenades to melt vehicles. But the super-advanced Eldar whose warriors literally dedicate their every waking moment to war never saw it fit to give one of their dedicated assault troops assault grenades? I've carried grenades into combat exercises before, it's not something that slows you down. And that these super-acrobatic battle dancers who wear power armor that not only protects them and enhances their strength but specifically improves their mobility across the board; can't dodge to at least a lesser degree than Wyches? And that the super-advanced Eldar never gave their heavy infantry killing melee specialists something to kill super-heavy infantry besides hoping the Exarch can cover for them? An Exarch who is inferior at TEQ killing to a Scorpion Exarch with a power fist because said scorpion hits at S8 at initiative and thus instantly pops Meganobz and Paladins and denies FNP to most TEQs, has grenades, and still has a boatload of attacks for a sergeant.

Come on.

The Mandiblaster alteration is easily one of the biggest examples of change for the sake of change. What was the point, really?

That Wraithknights can be built with up to four weapons, but can only use two; rendering the shoulder guns pointless (The Tyrannofex can have up to three weapons, but now the third will just be there to look pretty).

That the ghost glaive is an option, but GW apparently forgot that as they were S10 models; this does precisely squat for them besides forcing them to use shoulder guns in shooting.

That a wraith knight's weapon and shield combo is less protective than a wraithblade's weapon and shield combo because reasons.

That wraithknights can't double up on sun cannons when there doesn't really seem to be a reason they can't.

That GW is very, very cheeky about giving armies ground based AA options that aren't' flakk missiles. The Tau got the ultimate in more dakka skyfire/interceptor options. The Eldar, Dark Angels, and Chaos Space Marines meanwhile; have to hope their flakk missiles are feeling like preforming today. This is made worse by the presence of FW AA options that could be easily put into the codex proper like the Firestorm, Mortis dread, or giving forge-fiends an option for skyfire.

Tyranids and Daemons? Lol get fethed if you don't want to use fliers.

If my forgefiends can replace their face with a plasma cannon, why can't they replace their face with a hades autocannon?

That GW continually forgets to put rending on other gatling weapons when the Assault cannon is specifically noted as having it because it spews out so many bullets it can wear down defenses. Rending would go a way to making the Avenger Strike fighter's main gun actually a tank killer like the A-10/Su-25 it's an expy of, making Punishers better on Leman Russes, making Vulcan mega-bolters slightly more attractive as cheap super-heavy weapons, and so on so forth.

I spent some time math-hammering it and putting rending on a Leman Russ Punisher doesn't really break it that badly. You get on average one rending hit per volley. Maybe two if you're lucky. Even on Vultures it's only three on average. It'd also make the Hades slightly more attractive on Heldrakes (still not great). Even a stormlord superheavy double tapping it's vulcan megabolter at BS4 would only get a little more than three rends on average. If they are twinlinked then they'd get a bit more than four. Which is...not really all that threatening?

That rending doesn't confer the benefits of AP2 against vehicles because reasons.

That Gauss weapons lost the old-autowound feature. It wasn't really all that overpowering GW.

That the Phaeron upgrade is completely pointless because you can't put it on Destroyer lords to escort Beamer wraiths (thus making the gun actually useful), and all other Necron infantry use Assault or Rapid fire guns or are meleeists. A stat boost or something would be nice...

That GW seems to prefer laterally boosting struggling armies like the Tyranids, Dark Angels, and Sisters of battle over making them in-line with the top four codexes.

This is more a personal preference than a complaint, but I'd like more fliers in more slots for the armies. I homebrewed quite a lot of planes and FMCs. More MCs in armies that would sensibly have MCs would be nice too. I'd also like some more proper tanks for the Xenos.

That the concept of a proper dedicated mainline battle tank seems to elude every faction but the Guard and Tyranids (in a weird sense), and I guess the Marines too if you count the Sicarian battle tank. Everyone else either drives souped up IFVs (Battlewagons/fortresses and Land Raiders), selfpropelled guns (gun trukks, vindicators, etc) or converted transports (Fire Prisms, Predators, Hammerheads, etc) and some factions have apparently never heard of putting a turret on a vehicle (I'm looking at you Necrons).

That Necron destroyers are jump infantry rather than Jetpack or Jetpack/Jump infantry when Jump is something you put on a model to get it into assault, which Destroyers are terrible at outside of the Lord, while Jetpack is something you put on a model to keep it out of danger.

Why can't I put Tesla cannons on my Destroyers? Why are Gauss cannons S5 now?

Why are some armies stuffed to the gills with options while others barely get any?

Why is the Tyranid Prime 54% more expensive for no gain?

Why are Tyranid Warriors priced like TEQs when T4, 3 wounds, and a 4+ save make them autocannon and S8+ pieplate fodder? Raveners and Shrikes have it even worse. Either make them cheaper or more survivable.

Was there any reason to change the Boneswords and Lash whips? They were hardly gamebreaking before.

Why can't a Hive Tyrant dual wield boneswords if it wants to?

Why are dual boneswords entirely pointless now?

Why are relics so haphazardly useful with regards to both internal and external balance? Some armies get what amount to auto-takes because they're so good (both in terms of efficiency and sheer power), while others get nothing that is more than situationally useful and painfully overcosted at best.

Stop turning what should be integral character special rules into automatic results on the warlord table; seriously. Does Old One eye forget how to ignore pain if he's not the only HQ model in a tyranid army?

The Psyker tables are neither internally nor externally balanced. Tzeentch; the Lord of Magic, has two powers of his worth having. The rest are all awful. Pyromancy not only is full of witchfires, but they're mediocre witchfires at that, out of the table only Avatar of Flame is really all that good; and it's ultimately a poor man's iron arm mated to forewarning. Telekinesis is more bad witchfires, iffy blessings and maledictions, and that vortex thing.

Honestly every army should have access to all the BRB tables, and they need reworking. I personally went about making all the powers as good as things like Iron Arm, Prescience, and invisibility but other homebrewers may prefer setting the line of balance lower.

Khorne's ban on sorcery doesn't really make too much sense. Khorne is first and foremost; defined by Rage just as the most primal emotions behind Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Tzeentch are Lust, Despair, and Hope, with other aspects being added to those cores. We know that he's fine with ranged weapons; as the Teeth of Khorne are a thing, we know he's fine with any slaughter of worthy enemies or the flow of most blood (apparently Tyranid blood doesn't do anything for him; go figure) and anger and hate in general feed him. But sorcerers can be every bit as angry, violent, and hateful as anyone else. If the power of technology and daemon weaponary gets a free pass then what's the matter with drawing from the power of the blood god?

Barring Psykers from Khorne may make him more unique perhaps, but it also has weakened his forces on the tabletop. There's literally no point in taking a bloodthirster or a daemon prince of Khorne, and you only get Khorne heralds because you need them to get the most out of his other forces.

The Bloodcrusher was pointlessly nerfed and to add insult to injury; now costs a holy hell of a lot more because feth the blood god.

That Rubric Marines; who have been consistently terrible in every edition they've appeared in, HAVE NEVER BEEN FETHING FIXED HOLY GAK GW ARE YOU CRAZY!?!

That Flayed Ones aren't troops when they certainly don't handle like Elites.

That apparently any Necron who catches the flayed one virus transmogrifies into a basic warrior chassis. Because...erm...

That we don't have destroyer lychguards, crypteks, overlords, praetorians and what not.

That monsters get smash, but walkers don't.

GW allowing running and shooting all willy nilly, but running and assaulting? EMPEROR FORBID THAT EVER HAPPENING!

That gravity guns changed from 30k to 40k due to...well...I'm going to say Squats did it.

That the Orks are noted as having superior force-field technology to the Imperium; but their Power fields are actually worse than Void Shields, and personal force-field generators are something that only mekboyz have. And they only give cover; not invulnerable saves.

That Orks are noted as having superior teleportation technology to the Imperium, but last I checked, noting in the book deep strikes in by teleyporta.

That Lightning claws on terminators are so grotesquely inferior to TH/SS against virtually every target and GW expecting a 5-10 point difference being enough of an incentive to stay with Dual Claws.

That I can't get Orky chainfists when it's about the Orkiest weapon imaginable.

That we don't get beamy deffguns from DOW II.

That the venom cannon, in both variants is described as a heavy infantry/vehicle killing gun despite not being any good at either role, especially not in the numbers of shots you can get out of them.

That nobody has figured out how to reload combi-weapons despite over ten thousand years of use.

That the legendary Eldar sniper rifle relic's only advantage over any random Vindicaire's exitus rifle is range.

That said Exitus rifle can't shoot farther than a Ratling's long-las.

That random assassins have statlines equal to phoenix lords (ties into my complaints about the Phoenix Lord statlines being more befitting of Grand Exarchs rather than disciples of the god of war).

That Daemon Primarch Angron's statline is actually worse than Mortal Angron's statline in several places and special rules wise (though the WD rules for Daemon Angron are super-old)

That we don't have a gargantuan daemon prince to go with the gargantuan greater daemons (Be'lakor would have been perfect for this).

That Weirdboyz have become such sad, pitiful jokes.

That Gazghkull has the same S and T values as a regular warboss despite being taller than a carnifex.

That I cannot legally have Marshall Venner, a buffing Primaris Psyker, Yarrick, Straken, and Deddog all in the same Ogryn squad (maybe one day I'll be able to get power weapons without homebrews for them while we're at it) for the ultimate guard beatstick. It'd be awesome guys, I swear.

That a Vendetta is a better air superiority fighter than a thunderbolt despite the Vendetta basically being a Black-hawk in space with anti-tank missiles stuck onto it.

That the Vendetta actually has more guns than the Vulture despite the Vulture actually being a dedicated gunship.

That GW keeps on describing non-superheavy fliers as the premier space superiority fighter of X race and forgetting that in Battlefleet gothic, the standard space fighter is the 70 meter long (70% the height of 90s era Godzilla) Star Fury and that logically; all of these "space superiority" fighters would have that as what they're measuring against.

Genestealers are still overpriced for a unit that has very few options for actually surviving all the way to assault and thanks to being MEQ priced models with GEQ saves are going to be dying in droves without cover; and the loss of BRB tables has made even the broodlord delivery service much less viable. And when they get there, their weight of attacks isn't too amazing.

Ymgarl genestealers being removed because feth anyone who wants to assault the turn they put something on the table and feth anyone who liked Cthulhu genestealers.

Flesh hooks lost rending because feth you.

The Deathleaper autogets a warlord trait that needs it to be assassinating ICs to get the most out of it. The problem is that the Deathleaper is not going to survive against most ICs in a fight.

Lictors; the masters of ambush, will pop up and say "boo!" before getting swiftly gunned down, which is the opposite of an ambush. They're not even that stellar in assault so it's not like letting them charge when they appear would be too unbalancing.

The Deathleaper is not a synapse creature, even though the Trygon Prime and Lictor Alphas are perfect examples of the Hive Mind turning what is normally a non-synapse creature into a synapse creature.

Instinctive behavior got oh so much more unpleasant while synapse remains little more than a fearless bubble that lets you control your army without worrying about one out of every three units eating themselves or faffing about.

That Deathspitters don't get a buffed version for Monstrous Creatures like devourers do. I really liked the concept of the Deathscreamer grub I saw once; which turned MC Deathspitters into TL S7 AP5 Assault 6 (no range improvement) weapons that while pricier than the BL devourer by a hefty bit, gave the option for just that much more dakka.

Tyrannofex weapons are generally underwhelming for what you pay as I mentioned before, especially since despite it being a purpose built gun platform, it only has BS3. The Rupture cannon is remarkably underwhelming even when it does penetrate thanks to AP4, the Fleshborer hive is incredibly crappy due to being little more than 20 bolter pistol shots at BS3, and the Acid spray can't even kill marines. The spines and thorax swarms are rather dinky weapons for such a massive beast to boot.

The Tervigon got nerfed into the ground and yet it's still basically a need to have unit.

That a warrior brood can only have one barbed strangler or venom cannon each.

That tyranid weapon biomorphs no longer stack.

Abaddon's sword got nerfed really, really hard for little reason. Down from being an S8 reroll to wound instant death inflicting terror that got 1d6 extra attacks, it lost three strength, shred, and instant death, presumably so that people would use the LEGENDARY TALON OF HORUS (which bounces off of a Meganobz' wearable junkyard).

That C'tan of either stripe can only buy two powers, with the regular shard not having anything too spectacular. You can only really use one or two a turn so it's not game-breaking if someone sinks a boat-load of points into a C'tan shard.

Szeras and Anrakyr can't give their statline buffs to the Necron units that they'd actually be good on.

Szeras gets an awesome spider-lower body but no special rules from it.

Cryptek special characters are usually a waste as they prevent you from taking a royal court and can't be slotted into one.

The Eversor; the Assassin sent when the target and everything even tangentially related to the target must die in the most messy and spectacular fashion possible, of which a single one can outmatch an entire squad of Berserkers or send Genestealers packing (in body bags) both in fluff and in game, can only kill TEQs at range, and once in combat; is one powerklaw hit to the face away from being reduced to mush.

That I can't field multiple assassins of the same type. Do you know how awesome (and insanely expensive) it would be to field a five man squad of Eversors?

The Psycannon was changed from something unique and interesting to a psybolt assault cannon with an alternate firing mode.

So why is Draigo's super special sword not a Nemesis Force Sword anyway?

Draigo can wipe the floor with any Daemon, Psyker, or anything with MEQ and under saves and rampage through the warp like nobody's business, but a meganob squad? You're screwed dude.

I can haz nemesis force axe/maul?

Where does my Chaos Lord's gear go when he becomes a Daemon Prince?

Nobody ever thought to make a bike sized for terminators. Meganob bikerz man...

Meganobz can't cybork because...well you see....uhhh...

That GW doesn't do more with Cybork (and bionic) upgrades when they totally could use it to make for some really nice add ons.

Why don't we get to reroll redundant rolls on champions of chaos?

 dementedwombat wrote:
That the new Tau codex is so good people complain and refuse to play against me when I bring out the only army I've ever owned (and got my face beaten in with) since 3rd edition.

What's worse is when someone calls you a "bandwagoner" because Tau happen to be "OP" at the moment...even though you hopped on the "bandwagon" all the way back in fething 2006.

But no, my record with Tau hasn't been that great, either. I stopped keeping track of my W/L record after my losses more than doubled my wins (and who fething cares anyway, never really got that), so I've never experienced these easy wins or inherent overpoweredness with the Tau codex that people go on and on about. And now that they really are OP, I can't even think about bringing my army back out again. This kinda gak is exactly why 40k needs balance, and I'll never understand how there can be people out there who still argue otherwise. I literally can not play the fething game anymore, even if I WANTED to with the crappy 6th edition rules, and it's entirely because of bad game balance...and people being childish, whiny pricks, blaming me for all of GW's failings and accusing me of being a douchebag or otherwise lacking "morality" because I have the balls to want to play with an army that I picked 8 years ago, when I had absolutely no knowledge of 40k or its (lack of) balance and just thought they had the coolest models, but it's mostly game balance.

 herpguy wrote:
That there's people who actually enjoy playing armies that sit back and shoot all game.

Yeah, I don't like people who are different from me, either.

Oh gak, Kain posted while I was typing up mine.

Speaking of which, I would have much preferred the swordfish over the riptide, myself. Would have been more balanced, too, since vehicles suck in 6th (unless they're wave serpents I guess).

My big annoyance is with the Space Wolves codex. Specifically, the rule that says that ICs on wolfback can only join Fenrisian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry, meaning that because of a technicality, you cannot have multiple Wolf Lords join together to make a super-squad without having a "glue" unit in there to attach everyone to it.

What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list. I love the fluff and its what got me into the game. I enjoy playing competitively but I also love to base my armies around some sort of accurate fluff.

I remember a huge game of Apoc where it was Imperium versus all. We set rules to make the game interesting and hold to some realistic background. But then somehow Eldrad and Vek ended up in the same skimmer.

I don't know that kind of disregard of fluff for power gaming really grinds my gears. It was a not competitive apoc game yet he still had to win.

 Theschisack wrote:
What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list.

But if you're testing a list for "viability" isn't that kinda what you'd want? I wouldn't consider a win against a super-casual "Just feth it!"-type of list a real test of my army's viability.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Theschisack wrote:
What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list.

But if you're testing a list for "viability" isn't that kinda what you'd want? I wouldn't consider a win against a super-casual "Just feth it!"-type of list a real test of my army's viability.

That's a strawman. That he doesn't want to face a top-tier tournament list does not mean that he would prefer facing a super-casual list.

There are things in between.

 Theschisack wrote:
What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list. I love the fluff and its what got me into the game. I enjoy playing competitively but I also love to base my armies around some sort of accurate fluff.

I remember a huge game of Apoc where it was Imperium versus all. We set rules to make the game interesting and hold to some realistic background. But then somehow Eldrad and Vek ended up in the same skimmer.

I don't know that kind of disregard of fluff for power gaming really grinds my gears. It was a not competitive apoc game yet he still had to win.

It's Apocalypse, why didn't anyone just Volcano Cannon the skimmer?

Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.

Many codexes have useless units that are so obvious even one or two play tests should have shown it. (Banshees, Ogryn, Flayed ones etc.)

Armies can ally with themselves to break force org limits.
Armies can take "formations" that break force org limits and give special rules for no downside.

Models with multiple saves or 2+ invuln saves. Worse when they move 12/24' in a turn.

Vector Strike. So I get auto hits at high S and low AP just by moving over a unit, and they don't have any recourse? Why is this fun?

Monstrous creatures that make AP- or AP4 weapons AP2.

Units that get all the special rules at once, IE Tau, and don't pay anything for such massive ability.

Worthless psychic powers that you have 50% odds of getting.

Very inconsistent AA response. Some armies have great AA, others get nothing or one unit.

Chaospling wrote:
Well it doesn't grind my gears but there are some strange rules out there:

Imperial Knights being able to stomp attack units over half its' size - even the Wraithknight which is higher can bestomped upon.

Walkers don't get the Hammer of Wrath rule: Eldar Wraithlords and Wraithknights have the rule but Dreadnoughts, Helbrutes and Killa Kans don't - they valse into combat, shake hands and then throw the gloves.

Big tough Obliterators having only Strength and Toughness 4.

Background curiosities:

Mortals being able to slay an Avatar in close combat.

Tyranid creatures being able to develop faster and beyond diseases and viruses than Gods and daemons can develop them even though they don't need the same kind of physical research.

Guardsmen being able to down a Helbrute by overheating their lasgun clip.

Obviously the Knight titan begins bashing the Wraithknight/Greater Demon/Riptide in the shins by means of it's armored head until the wraithknight/Greater Demon/Riptide falls over in pain.

Deathwing sargeants being forced to only take a sb/ps combination when assault terminators can take 5x th/ss

Here's some of mine-

Daemon Princes only having Ld 9 in 6th Ed.
Daemon Prince-"Oh, I'm a Daemon Prince, I have fought the Long War and will lead my triumphant host into battle."
Conniving Chaos Lord-"You can't do that."
Daemon Prince- "What!? Why not?"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "Well, I have higher leadership than you, so I have to be the Warlord."
Daemon Prince- " But you don't even have VotLW!"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "So what, sucker? You're now my slave!"

Not being able to have Khornate Sorcerers.
Okay, this is a bit far-fetched, but in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, there is in fact precedent for Khornate sorcery.
I would imagine that the Psyker powers would involve lots of sacrifices and blood.

Not being able to dedicate vehicles to specific Chaos powers.
I would have it so that you could dedicate any and all Chaos vehicles to Chaos Gods, as with the Decimator.
it would most likely made so that if you bought a dedicated transport, it would have to be dedicated to the same Chaos God as the unit, if you follow.

Chaos Lords with the MoS can't take Noise Weapons

Cultist Champions that roll Dark Apotheosis getting Power Armour.
This makes no sense. Where do they get power armour from?

I will probably think of more later.

Heck. Chaos Lords/Sorcerers with MoT can't take Inferno Bolts! That's annoying, too! Then again, it wouldn't matter if we could still take the Deathscreamer...

"What really makes me mad is when you try to play a fun game or test a list for viability and your opponent runs his tournament win at all costs list"

I run WAAC lists, but with BA. So...yeah.

 YFNPsycho wrote:
Here's some of mine-

Daemon Princes only having Ld 9 in 6th Ed.
Daemon Prince-"Oh, I'm a Daemon Prince, I have fought the Long War and will lead my triumphant host into battle."
Conniving Chaos Lord-"You can't do that."
Daemon Prince- "What!? Why not?"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "Well, I have higher leadership than you, so I have to be the Warlord."
Daemon Prince- " But you don't even have VotLW!"
Conniving Chaos Lord- "So what, sucker? You're now my slave!"

Not being able to have Khornate Sorcerers.
Okay, this is a bit far-fetched, but in the Gaunt's Ghosts books, there is in fact precedent for Khornate sorcery.
I would imagine that the Psyker powers would involve lots of sacrifices and blood.

Not being able to dedicate vehicles to specific Chaos powers.
I would have it so that you could dedicate any and all Chaos vehicles to Chaos Gods, as with the Decimator.
it would most likely made so that if you bought a dedicated transport, it would have to be dedicated to the same Chaos God as the unit, if you follow.

Chaos Lords with the MoS can't take Noise Weapons

Cultist Champions that roll Dark Apotheosis getting Power Armour.
This makes no sense. Where do they get power armour from?

I will probably think of more later.

Daemon Princes are actually Ld8. VotLW is what makes them Leadership 9. Apparently being an almighty daemon of death turns you into a pussy. Maybe it is because they realise they are not eternal warrior any more.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

That bastard Necrons are only bastard BS4,

Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?

EDIT:

Durandal wrote:
Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.

This too! and the same goes for the Dreadknight. They're WALKERS Dammit, they should have rules for walkers

DkLnBr wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

That bastard Necrons are only bastard BS4,

Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?

Obviously their Windows 95 targeting software is holding them back. :-)

But otherwise, there's only so good someone can get and it seems BS4 is the limit for Necrons. And why shouldn't it be? They don't have brains or bodies anymore, no grey matter to take up new paths from training or muscles that learn certain moves after repeating them a thousand times. They're as good as they were when they abandoned flesh and they're not getting any better. Or maybe they've even degraded over the eons. Their entire race is a dead end.

Spetulhu wrote:

Obviously their Windows 95 targeting software is holding them back. :-)

But otherwise, there's only so good someone can get and it seems BS4 is the limit for Necrons. And why shouldn't it be? They don't have brains or bodies anymore, no grey matter to take up new paths from training or muscles that learn certain moves after repeating them a thousand times. They're as good as they were when they abandoned flesh and they're not getting any better. Or maybe they've even degraded over the eons. Their entire race is a dead end.

Lol, thanks! now I have the image of Necron Warriors playing the windows startup sound when they activate in the tomb world
Ya I do agree that muscle memory would be lost on Necrons (piston memory?) and the majority of the Necrons are really just automatons, but the leaders still have most of their minds intact. Also a race as advanced as Necrons would probably have learning robots too, but that idea does sound more "Tau" than anything else

DkLnBr wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

That bastard Necrons are only bastard BS4,

Agreed. I never understood how necrons were such low WS and BS for their fluff. "Our foot soldiers are older than your entire civilization!" ya, and in those years before the great sleep they only got the aim of an Imperial Guard Commander (and thats assuming that Necrons dont have some kind of targeting software installed). This especially bothers me with Praetorians because they never hibernated. These elite warriors have been active (and presumably fighting/training) for OVER 60 MILLION YEARS and after all that they've only managed WS and BS 4?

EDIT:

Durandal wrote:
Riptides have wounds instead of an armor value and hull points.

This too! and the same goes for the Dreadknight. They're WALKERS Dammit, they should have rules for walkers

And also Necron units noted as supernaturally fast and graceful (Praetorians/Wraiths) are only I2 because statline copy pasting. And to add insult to injury the Praetorians hit at I1 due to their rods.

D'oh.

Oh and Lychguards noted as putting armor on top of their armored frames not having better saves than immortals.

We ran Lychguards and Praetorians with TEQ saves and more fitting WS/BS/I/A; wasn't really that bad and appropriate costing.

Also the hyerphase sword is not even remotely designed like a sword. When we gave the necrons hyperphase power weapons rather than swords, the default...whacky thing became an axe. Kitbashed khopesh's are the new swords.

Also, remember when Necron warscythes had gauss flayers (or were they blasters?) in them? Those looked cool. Even if my pariahs very rarely did much damage with them.

The Hyperphase sword is designed to be similiar to the Khopesh, an Egyptian sword:

Khopesh:


Hyperphase Sword:


It's obviously not 1:1 but I can definitely see why they call it a sword.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Hyperphase sword is designed to be similiar to the Khopesh, an Egyptian sword:

Khopesh:


Hyperphase Sword:


It's obviously not 1:1 but I can definitely see why they call it a sword.

It's way too fat to be a sword. It'd be a cleaver at best with it's hugely thick but relatively short blade.

Our Khopeshes are substantially thinner.

 Kain wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Hyperphase sword is designed to be similiar to the Khopesh, an Egyptian sword:

Khopesh:


Hyperphase Sword:


It's obviously not 1:1 but I can definitely see why they call it a sword.

It's way too fat to be a sword. It'd be a cleaver at best with it's hugely thick but relatively short blade.

Our Khopeshes are substantially thinner.

It's also a tiny plastic model part I'd rather have be unusually thick than so thin that I'm afraid of it snapping all the time.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The Hyperphase sword is designed to be similiar to the Khopesh, an Egyptian sword:

Khopesh:


Hyperphase Sword:


It's obviously not 1:1 but I can definitely see why they call it a sword.

It's way too fat to be a sword. It'd be a cleaver at best with it's hugely thick but relatively short blade.

Our Khopeshes are substantially thinner.

It's also a tiny plastic model part I'd rather have be unusually thick than so thin that I'm afraid of it snapping all the time.

Fair enough.

The fact that a Landspeeder with a Weapon destroyed, cannot allow the Pilot or Passenger to us a Bolt Pistol, or kamikaze their Vehicle into a bigger one to kill it.

E.g Roll BS to see if you manage to hit the other vehicle/ Monstrous Vehicle or Walker, then resolve based as a D strength hit...

Suicide Wave tactics, yes you lose the points, but so long as you kill something more than you all to the good. Not viable against anything with IWND.

Would make RIPTIDES and others think twice when a Suicide Squadron of Landspeeders comes barrelling at them.

Same with ork vehicles or anyone who can Spam cheap skimmers or massed cheap vehicles..

There aren't enough last ditch rules e,g when you are assualted, e.g "You Declare a last Stand your unit cannot break-off or retreat - If you lose the Combat you will be utterly destroyed, but every member of the Unit gains +1A"

"A Unit Armed with a Plasma Gun can self detonate"
"A unit with a KRAK Grenade can do a Suicide attack against an MC or Walker, grappling itself against the enemy unit and detonating itself - Roll against the WS, if sucessful the Target takes an Strength 8, rending hit as this against a weakspot"

THese are just some silly spare of the minute examples but you should have more Actions in Melee, to really make even the most basic troops more dangerous to the Elites or MC's.