Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 sfshilo wrote:
You cannot compare fliers like this...

Do you spend time comparing the leman russ to the wave serpant?

Tau fliers arent crap, path finders are cheaper and force multipliers.
Dark angel fliers have their uses. But bikes and librarians do a better job.

The "good" fliers are good because they fill a niche in most games.
Vendettas arent great at bs3. But guard really do not have anything else in fast attack and it holds 12 models. Which makes it better for the army overall, not better compared directly.

You lost what little credibility you had when you forgot little details like twinlinking, people frequently comparing Leman Russes to Wave Serpents in terms of which tank truly does give the most bang for it's buck, how relative terms like "have their uses" are, and how to spell serpent.

Despite what the "GW is great at making balanced games!" crowd tells you, the consensus that units like the WS and Vendetta give too much value for what you pay did not arise by some GW-defamation conspiracy preformed at the hands of the Anti-GW Shadow Cabal which plots from within the redoubt of doom to ruin 40k's good name and hide the evidence that all is actually well in 40k.

Twin-linking turns BS3 to just a smidge under BS5.

On average, every lascannon hit from a Vendetta should hit. This puts monstrous creatures down three wounds and threatens just about any vehicle with less than AV14 (which should still be wary, just not as much) and because GW's flier rules are so basic; this dump truck with engines that amounts to a Blackhawk with maverick missiles strapped to the sides is one of the best air superiority craft in the game.

The Tau fliers are dumped on because you pay a lot for units that give you very little your army does not have in abundance already on a fragile platform, and in the sun-shark's case; due to a rules goof, do not actually get to use their bombs by RAW.

The Dark Angels fliers are dumped on for the same reasons. The Nephilim is a very poor air superiority craft, especially for it's price; and it's weapons load-out neuters it's ability to take on targets most DA lists couldn't already handle fairly well. The Dark Talon is also bashed because you pay out the nose for something that faffs about with debuffs when with a DA army and is' need to get quite expensive to be competetive; you absolutely need every player in your army to pull it's weight.

The Heldrake is extolled because you get an AV12, multi-hullpoint flier that has IWND, a cover ignoring weapon with fantastic reach, accuracy, and area of effect that ignores the armor saves of most scoring units and wounds them on 2s, can follow up with more AP3 good strength vector strikes that also ignore cover, and thanks to having an invulnerable save it never needs to jink.

The Night scythe? Dirt cheap flying transport with a good weapon, good transport capacity, decent armor, and ignores all the downsides of being a flying transport.

Dark Angels /thread

Put the StormRaven right behind the Hunter and I'm likely to agree with you.

I've had excellent luck with both dakka jets and doom scythes. Trick is using each to best effect... and that depends on the rest of your army & how you play it.

Kain wrote:Despite what the "GW is great at making balanced games!" crowd tells you

I doubt such people exist. The question isn't whether 40k is well balanced, so much as if imbalance is a good thing or not.

 Kain wrote:

It costs you 75 points, it carries less people than a Rhino, it's as fragile as a Trukk, and if you want a gun (one autocannon, TL heavy stubbers, a multilaser, or two hellstrikes) you have to pay 20-25 points and they all fire at BS1.

...and....it's a SNOW SPEEDER!

Vendetta not hilariously broken? You're trolling.

Blitza-Bomber: 125 pts

10-10-10 BS 2

TL supa-shoota (s6 ap4, assault 3, range 30', twin-linked)
Bigshoota (s5 ap5, assault 3, range 36')
BoomBombz x2 (s7 ap4, small blast, one-use, armourbane, *Skreamin' Descent)

Skreamin' Descent - during the movement phase you may drop up to one bomb, to do so stop Blitza-Bomber 1' in front of it's target, roll 2d6 and consult the table below. If it survives the Descent you may complete the move. May not drop bomb and Flat-Out the same turn.
2 - no bomb is dropped, Blitza-Bomber is wrecked
3-4 - no bomb is dropped, the Blitza-Bomber and it's target suffer a single s9 ap2 hit
5-9 - centre the small blast marker over any model in target unit and scatter it d6' (bs doesn't matter)
10-12 - Blitza-Bomber drops the bomb as per 5-9 and makes out-of sequence shooting attack with it's supa-shoota. Any unit that suffers unsaved wounds must emidiately take a pinning test.

Supersonic, Waaaaagh! Plane (the number of shots is doubled when WAAAAGH is called), Grot Gunner (fires bigshoota at BS 3)


So...basically you're paying 125 pts for a BS2 tl supa-shoota and bs3 bigshoota on a 10-10-10 platform. And the bombz even with s7 armourbane are pretty meh cause of small blast, ap4 and the fact that they alwayz scatter. And mishaps.
It's fun on paper but i haven't seen even one game with a Blitza-Bomber doing at least something useful except from killing itself.

 koooaei wrote:
Blitza-Bomber: 125 pts

10-10-10 BS 2

TL supa-shoota (s6 ap4, assault 3, range 30', twin-linked)
Bigshoota (s5 ap5, assault 3, range 36')
BoomBombz x2 (s7 ap4, small blast, one-use, armourbane, *Skreamin' Descent)

Skreamin' Descent - during the movement phase you may drop up to one bomb, to do so stop Blitza-Bomber 1' in front of it's target, roll 2d6 and consult the table below. If it survives the Descent you may complete the move. May not drop bomb and Flat-Out the same turn.
2 - no bomb is dropped, Blitza-Bomber is wrecked
3-4 - no bomb is dropped, the Blitza-Bomber and it's target suffer a single s9 ap2 hit
5-9 - centre the small blast marker over any model in target unit and scatter it d6' (bs doesn't matter)
10-12 - Blitza-Bomber drops the bomb as per 5-9 and makes out-of sequence shooting attack with it's supa-shoota. Any unit that suffers unsaved wounds must emidiately take a pinning test.

Supersonic, Waaaaagh! Plane (the number of shots is doubled when WAAAAGH is called), Grot Gunner (fires bigshoota at BS 3)


So...basically you're paying 125 pts for a BS2 tl supa-shoota and bs3 bigshoota on a 10-10-10 platform. And the bombz even with s7 armourbane are pretty meh cause of small blast, ap4 and the fact that they alwayz scatter. And mishaps.
It's fun on paper but i haven't seen even one game with a Blitza-Bomber doing at least something useful except from killing itself.

And to top it off, when they updated the rules, the Blitza lost its special rule where it didn't just crash, but crashed directly onto the target, doing more damage than if it had dropped a bomb. The Blitza didn't use to be great, but before the 'update', it was dangerous even on a crash. It was like a consolation prize:

You lost your Bomber, but at least you splatted the target!

Now, meh. If the ork is aiming the bombs by nose-diving an airplane directly at the target, how does the crash do so little to the objective? Lame.

im going to say the nid flyers, they have a very low value and do almost nothing before they die. they can be grounded and killed by pretty much anything thats classified as a "troop". if the crone misses its bomb then you get some spore mines.. excuse me while i slowly clap for you. meanwhile the harpy has some firepower but its also got the same problem, they can hit the ground when their so much as coughed on and then from there it can get shot to hell by everything.
i dont see what the nephilim has such a bad rap for. at 1000-1250 points its not a terrible choice at all. most armies would have issues grounding them and they also fire really well against infantry. great for mowing down cheap mobs folks have been holding in reserves like ork boys in trukks, imperial guard troopers, or deepstriking assault marines. and thats not a half bad role to fill at those point values. the nephilim doesnt look like seal clubbing unlike when you get a guy fielding a stormtalon or nightscythes. a nephilim actually looks very fair.

the dark talon is trash i agree, the time void bomb is kinda cool i guess and the two storm bolters are "meh" at best. i agree the dark talon is totally crap, but the nephilim gets wayyy too much hate.