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Rumor has it that the Vendetta will go up in points to 170 and will have its transport capacity reduced to six models.

If that is the case, is the Vendetta still worth it? Will you Vendetta fans still run them? Would you/will you buy a new one if you are just starting Guard?

At most it deserved a 20 pt price hike. 40 was too much. I don't think they'll be nearly as common as they were before, though I'm not surprised GW swung too hard with the nerf bat.

170pts is entirely reasonable for it, and I own 3 currently. I'd have probably put it at 160, but 170pts for an AV12 flyer with 3 Twin Linked Lascannons is still better than most other flyers, though it really belongs in Heavy Support. The change to the transport capacity, when many IG units are static in size at 10, is not so much.

I think that's still a damn good deal. I think they're costed pretty fairly at this point. For fun, compare them in price to the Dark Angels flyers and shed a single tear for the Unforgiven.

I'd pass.

Making them more expensive doesn't really make sense. What would make a whole heck of a lot more sense is if they rewrote the rules so that the vendetta actually behaved like a fast attack choice, rather than a misplaced heavy support choice.

Real fast attack choices don't have THAT much killing power, but are still worth taking because they're very flexible and allow you to quickly adapt to situations on the tabletop. A flier that shows up late and has limited mobility and is only worth taking for its guns is none of that.

Because if all you want is a gun platform, then russes already do the job of a vendetta better. Only making vendettas more expensive changes none of that. They need to be rethought, not re-priced.

Considering its AV and weapon loadout, it's far more in line with other races' flyers now. And it can still transport and hover.

For 170 i won't be taking it. I can get that kind of firepower from other things for a lot less. Hell the helldrake is far better at a very close price point. Unless they boosted the Vendetta with a built in 5+ invul.

With the bump over all for Flyers especially Transports, I foresee a lot of Necron Players myself included being unhappy when the codex is released in 3 years.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'd pass.

Making them more expensive doesn't really make sense. What would make a whole heck of a lot more sense is if they rewrote the rules so that the vendetta actually behaved like a fast attack choice, rather than a misplaced heavy support choice.

Real fast attack choices don't have THAT much killing power, but are still worth taking because they're very flexible and allow you to quickly adapt to situations on the tabletop. A flier that shows up late and has limited mobility and is only worth taking for its guns is none of that.

Because if all you want is a gun platform, then russes already do the job of a vendetta better. Only making vendettas more expensive changes none of that. They need to be rethought, not re-priced.

But that would have required an entirely new model (and then it wouldn't be a Vendetta). The points cost for it now will be exactly where it should be at, although I don't really see the point of the reduced transport capacity. I mean it makes sense from a logistics standpoint, just makes it largely useless as a transport for IG (er, I mean AM).

At 170 it is still good, but it isnt as crazy as it was. It might make someone actually consider taking the valk.

really, neither should be AV12

It's a good price. Heck, just the 2 twin-linked lascannons should run to about 70-80 points. Add in the transport capacity, the AV12 and the flyer status and 170 is a good price. It's still great but not so easily spammable without making sacrifices elsewhere in the list.

Pretty much every other flyer still dies in one turn against a vendetta, and it can still be squadroned for FOC optimization.

Sargow wrote:
For 170 i won't be taking it. I can get that kind of firepower from other things for a lot less. Hell the helldrake is far better at a very close price point. Unless they boosted the Vendetta with a built in 5+ invul.

OK fair enough give me the option to transport 10 CSM in my drake and we're square. Oh, and make the hades cannon remotely comparable to 3x linked lascannons.

Too expensive people say? I guess they will be buying that new tank then eh?

MarsNZ wrote:

Sargow wrote:
For 170 i won't be taking it. I can get that kind of firepower from other things for a lot less. Hell the helldrake is far better at a very close price point. Unless they boosted the Vendetta with a built in 5+ invul.

OK fair enough give me the option to transport 10 CSM in my drake and we're square.

*6 CSM.

They reduced the transport capacity as well.

Still, 170 for an AV12 flying transport that can hover, packs 3 lascannons and can be squadroned isn't too shabby.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
Too expensive people say? I guess they will be buying that new tank then eh?

You mean the Wyvern? That fills a completely different role, so that's not really a good example.

Armored Las-Sentinels would be a better comparison.

ClassicCarraway wrote:But that would have required an entirely new model (and then it wouldn't be a Vendetta).

You could still make it vendetta-like.

Keep it the same, except swap out flier for fast skimmer, swap out three lascannons for two multimeltas and a hard point (to be able to take an upgrade like +1 to its reserve rolls or -1 scatter distance for dudes parachuting out the back, etc.), then give it back deepstrike and scouts. Plus a rule like swooping hawks have to allow it to teleport off the board (to represent it quickly flying away).

That way you'd have a unit that can quickly deliver a squad of infantry somewhere, and can pick other dudes up and quickly redeploy them. It would still have some firepower, but might also have some army synergy (depending on hard point upgrades - one could be a speaker system that gives +1Ld to units within 6", for example).

That way it would be a fast attack choice. Something that zooms around and solves problems as they develop. It would also still be a vendetta - a winged vehicle that can transport troops around and shoot stuff.

I've been saying all through 6th ed that 170pts would have been fair for the Vendetta, and here we are. The lower transport capacity's not a huge deal for me either, especially since rumour has it that Veterans can be in units of 5+.

Huh, I thought 5 was already the min for vets.

What can be taken in units of 5 in the current IG book anyway?

It's a good price. Heck, just the 2 twin-linked lascannons should run to about 70-80 points. Add in the transport capacity, the AV12 and the flyer status and 170 is a good price. It's still great but not so easily spammable without making sacrifices elsewhere in the list.

Pretty much every other flyer still dies in one turn against a vendetta, and it can still be squadroned for FOC optimization.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:What can be taken in units of 5 in the current IG book anyway?

stormtroopers, ogryn, ratlings, and PBSs.

So, elites choices.

Also, to be pedantic, all officer squads.

This question can't be answered until we see the new rules for the Hydra (and any other AA units IG get). At 170 points and with reduced transport capacity the Vendetta is no longer as brutally efficient as it used to be, so the primary reason to take it is for AA. The Vendetta is still way more powerful than the Thunderbolt and other flyer AA options IG have, but the new Hydra may be effective enough that it can cover the AA role without needing help from aircraft. If the Hydra does become a viable AA platform then the Vendetta probably won't have much of a role.

 Ailaros wrote:
What would make a whole heck of a lot more sense is if they rewrote the rules so that the vendetta actually behaved like a fast attack choice, rather than a misplaced heavy support choice.

Yeah, what was GW thinking when they put a unit that can move 36" a turn into fast attack. Real fast attack choices move at least 72" a turn!

170 points for an AV12 Flyer with 3 Twin-linked Lascannons, Hover and transport capability? Still sounds pretty good for me.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I've been saying all through 6th ed that 170pts would have been fair for the Vendetta, and here we are. The lower transport capacity's not a huge deal for me either, especially since rumour has it that Veterans can be in units of 5+.

Agreed, 170pts sounds somewhat sane and the fact that it has any transport capacity at all is barely a factor for me.

Well until they give us a tank that can do some decent damage to Riptides, Wraithknights, and other monstrous creatures it’s really the only thing in the IG arsenal that can do heavy damage in a single turn so even with the point increase all my flyers will still be seeing plenty of action. Am a little sadden by the larger then hopefully point increase (had my hopes at 150) still it’s pretty much a most have in any of my list.

Imagine for a second it didn't use to be 40pts cheaper. Ok, now pretend it never existed. Cool, now you open your new codex and see a new varient of the valkyrie, it's 170pts, cool, now compare it to other flyers from other codex's. Stacks up pretty well no? 12 armour, same a helldrake (gree, what do those cost?) it's still way better than the dark angel thing. It won't have a problem shooting down other flyers, it has the option to go into hover mode and lascannons are pretty good at killing a lot of the more annoying units out there. (glances at riptide)

yeah give the helldrake the option of a hades that works like 3 TL LC and a transport capacity OR the flamer, guess what people would take? the "hades" might see some use rather than NEVER.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Imagine for a second it didn't use to be 40pts cheaper. Ok, now pretend it never existed. Cool, now you open your new codex and see a new varient of the valkyrie, it's 170pts, cool, now compare it to other flyers from other codex's. Stacks up pretty well no? 12 armour, same a helldrake (gree, what do those cost?) it's still way better than the dark angel thing. It won't have a problem shooting down other flyers, it has the option to go into hover mode and lascannons are pretty good at killing a lot of the more annoying units out there. (glances at riptide)

only the helldrake has a +5inv and it doesn't have to transport troopers. Looks like am going to have to stop using ally , because I just lost 120pts and I have no where to place my veterans. I hope there is going to be options to run a good foot guard list , because it is looking grim right now . Higher cost vendettas , no units to transport inside, no cheap killy troops , because there is no points to buy chimeras unless the vendettas are droped totaly , but then IG have no good anti flyer units .

I think 170pts is a good, fair cost for them, however, if they drop the transport capacity to six that all goes out the window. Who really uses a squad of six IG? If this is true then I really am not getting the new codex. My local friends will still let me use the old book.

It was a fair price as a skimmer but was too cheap once flyer rules came in, 170 seems right to me for the vendetta.

Yeah, it's worth it. It's still better than most other flyers in the game even at 170 points. 150 points with everything else remaining unchanged was just wishful thinking, and wouldn't have really brought it in line with the other flyers at all, nor would it have been balanced internally since it still would have been cheap enough for everyone to justify taking it instead of the valkyrie, or indeed anything else in the Fast Attack slot. The only other flyer that might compare is the heldrake, which has also been widely regarded as being "OP" since shortly after it was released, and will no doubt receive the same treatment when the next CSM update comes out (5-10 years from now, assuming GW's still around by then, but yeah).

 Ruberu wrote:
I think 170pts is a good, fair cost for them, however, if they drop the transport capacity to six that all goes out the window.

If you need transport capacity then consider the valkyrie. Assuming it remains mostly unchanged it should be able to carry twice as many models, and it'll probably be cheaper. You wouldn't even need to buy a new model for it, really, if you could convince people to pretend that the lascannons are actually rocket pods.

Not only that but the reduced transport capacity actually makes sense. The vendetta is just a valkyrie that's been converted into a gunship, and like other similar units, the increased firepower would likely come at the cost of carrying capacity. The vendetta shouldn't have the same capacity as the valkyrie, because it needs the space for the three twin-linked lascannon batteries. A Tau devilfish loses all of its transport capacity when you convert it into a hammerhead gunship, as it needs all that space to power the large main gun and hold ammunition. Same idea with the Eldar fire prism. If anything the vendetta probably shouldn't have a transport capacity at all, as I can't think of many other dedicated gunships in the game that do. There are other units, like the SM razorback, that further set a precedent for transports losing transport capacity when you stick big guns on top, and that's just from a single twin-linked lascannon, which tells me that three of the damn things should definitely take up some room.

From the point of view of me as an Elysians player?

170 points for the Vendetta?

Seems perfectly fair to me. That puts it at 15 points over the Punisher Vulture, which it currently hedges out in most circumstances because it has the advantage of transporting a Veteran squad with Lord Commissar attached.

Also puts it at 40 points over a Valkyrie with Missile Pods, which sounds a little harsh with the reduced transport capacity as well. Still, makes the Valkyrie seem nicer in comparison, so I can't complain too much since I have to take them.

Transports 6? I guess I'll be putting command squads, Stormtroopers and special/heavy weapon teams in them. No big deal, I've got those units floating around in the army anyway.