Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, I'm trying to make a cool balanced model that is for apocalypse like game. I 'm trying to use similar rules to this model but make it to fight slaanesh.(i don't really fight slaanesh but fluff). This model would be called Ynnead.
So for fluff the god is finally summoned but needs a host and wraith bone is no longer acceptable. So a brave young eldar warrior/autarch, gives his life and body to the god. Ynnead possesses and takes control of the body giving enough power to fight a god of chaos. (atleast equivalent or better than primarchs).

I am currently unsure of how to proceed with the model. I know i need to have that great movement and some protection from d-weapons. I am trying to make this a 750+ model. I am unsure to make it a gargantuan like infantry or going with av, even though that would look weird from a model perspective... SO any help/criticism would be great.

Drop the protection from D weapons. Nothing else has it, so why should your guy get it?

I think a starting place to look would be the Transcendent C'tan.

I was trying to put it in for the holo fields that the revenant titan gets, as for gargantuan creatures should be getting a defense since they are instantly killed currently be D weapons.

So?

None of them have any special defenses either. And yours would actually have AMAZING defense against them because it is infantry size, all you have to do is block LOS to it, which for an eldar size infantry model, is child's play with how many tanks are out there.

Good point.

You can have Strength D protection as long as it's not 'really' strength D protection. What i would suggest is not something monstrously tough because as you describe it, the God is still in an Eldar body. What he should be is 'tricksie' in true Eldar style, for example give him Veil of Tears to protect him from shooting. Give him a 2++ with a re-roll for every 10 Eldar models lost within 12''. Give him high Ws, I, A as well as powerful psyker powers and special rules but he shouldn't be high strength or toughness, his rules and powers should work around that.

What you should try do is think of a Transcendent C'Tan but swap some offensive powers for defensive and psyker powers. You should have a good start from there.

Putting an actual for real god believed to have the potential to kill one of the gods of Chaos on the table top strikes me as...silly.

Well it is an "embodiment" so its not yet full power compared to when its say, fighting slaanesh.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ynnead Reincarnation
Ws 10
Bs 10
s 3
t 3
w 3
I 10
A 2d6
Ld 10
sv /
Charged Heavy Aspect armour, Charged shuriken pistol, plasma grenades, Holographic shield, fleet, Mask of death, ccw,
Psychic master level 4, Reincarnate, ancient doom, battle focus, fearless, eternal warrior, fear, character, final doom

Charged heavy aspect armour= 3++ save
Charged shuriken pistol= 24" str 7 ap D3 pistol, bladestorm.
Holographic shield= projection of self emites from shield. On a 5+ any hit counts as missing.
Mask of death= Enemy and friendly models in 12'" have -3ld, and lose atsknf and fearless (this does not apply to ynnead)

Final doom- if dies roll 3d6, all models inside this range suffer D6, str D6, ap D6 wounds per unit in proximity. this has the haywire special rule.
Reincarnate= if Ynnead Reincarnation dies, sacrafice either a farseer or Autarch at the beggining of your player turn. (gains benifits of sacrafice)
Claim one before the start of the game, gains these abilities if you sacrifice that model type . (farseer or autarch),
(autarch= Stratagy master +1 to yours or your opponents reserve rolls) (farseer= +2 mastery level)

Psychic powers (gains all)
Blade of a Thousand souls- warp charge 2- all attacks in cc are Str D
Agile movement- warp charge 1- Move 24" in the movement phase instead of 6", gain d6 extra attacks in cc
Fortune- warp charge 2- (self only) same as book. (farseer only).
Doom- warp charge 1- same as book
in-cloaked in darkness- warp charge 1- Models wishing to shoot at Ynnead roll 3d6x2, this is the amount of inches that they must be inside in order to fire.
Psychic unleash- Warp charge- stats (choose firing mode)
1 - Death to the sky's- 48" Str10 Ap1 A-2d6, Skyfire
1 - Doom Pulsar 60" Str 10 Ap 1 A 4 large Blast
3 - Phantom pulsar 120" str D Ap 1 Hv 4 Large blast
1 - Wave Cannon 36" Str 10 Ap 2 A 1 10" blast, ordanince
3 - Pulsar Cannon 72" Str D Ap 2 Hv 1 10" Blast, ordanince
1 - Focused energy Template Str 10 Ap 1 A 1 Torrent
3 - Psychic storm energy Apocalypse template Str D Ap 1 Hv 1.

As for points well I was thinking about 750, but would rather the community talk about it and help justify the price, ( even if it was 2k i would still like to try it out).

If this is going to be this Mary Sue with abilities offensively,debuff, AND defensive....the cost should be MUCH higher.

an infantry-sized revenant titan? like Wraithknights?

No, he wants to put a Titan on the tabletop without having to actually buy a giant model.

Ps: i hate the giant models, i have one that is home made, and one that is bought from forge world. They are hard to carry around, and i hate giant models, i rather super characters than super giant models. (i rather humanoids that cut gundams than gundams.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:
No, he wants to put a Titan on the tabletop without having to actually buy a giant model.

then the OP needs to learn how to scratchbuild. I have no ossue with clearly equipped counts-as or home made.models, but they have to be at least close to the size of the real model. an infantry-sized titan? no. hell no.

Revenant titan is one of the easiest to scratchbuild.

Start with an artists mannequin.

Not only that. But he wants one that has the capabilities of a Battle Titan at the cost of a Scout Titan. This is special, and not in a good way.

Wanting a very powerful Eldar model to be an Avatar of Ynnead is one thing, but make it at least the size of a Monstrous Creature...on the large side...to make it Gargantuan. Also, calm down it's capabilities significantly. Heavy 4 Destroyer weapon? Really? As just ONE option!? For 750 points!?

It is a little hard to read some of your rules, I'm guessing this is a first attempt at writing rules. You have abilities that lead nowhere like Reincarnate. I imagine this brings him back to life, but it doesn't state so. If it does, in what capacity?

As it is, it would probably be around 2500 points. But this is a somewhat wild guess as it is impossible to accomodate that the model never leaves the table...simply foolish.

I took the weapons straight out of the escalation rule books(modified AA), and put heavy warp charges to limit the firing of them, as well as the fact that the person must stay stationary, also this is open, please post any good ideas or ways to do it. (in philosophy they don't tear down ideas without their own full theory or it would go no where. so don't just crit, give your own way to do it, this is open for all.)

The whole 'he has to stay stationary' thing is something of a false weakness. There's no reason for this guy to move considering all of his shooting attacks can reach out huge distances, who cares if he has to stay still? The weakness does not balance out the character at all because it does nothing to actually limit its effectiveness outside of very specific circumstances.

And all of his shots are...well...how do I put this delicately...ridiculous for his points cost. A titan has maybe two of those guns, but this guy has all of them. And can fire several of them every turn. He can also throw up powers that, when used in tandem with the massive range he has, means that he is more or less immune to any kind of long distance shooting. And even if something slips through, hey, he has a 3++, plus a 5+ 'ignore hit' PLUS since he is a character, he has Look out Sir to boot PLUS since he is infantry size, it is insanely easy to simply hide him out of line out sight and make him unhittable by shooting. He is better at doing damage and avoiding damage by shooting than anything in the game, by far.

And, if needed, he can throw potentially 3d6 WS10 SD melee attacks with a 36" melee threat range at I 10. He is better than anything in the game in melee combat. By a huge margin.

Even if this guy somehow is killed, the consequences of his death are pitiful for you. A d6" explosion with Haywire. Big whoop. A C'tan Shard, a tiny piece of a C'tan, goes out with a way bigger boom than an Eldar GOD? This is another false weakness. "But he blows up!"...for no serious threat to anything.

In short, there is no such thing as a weakness in this guy. He has every benefit of titan-size shooting, he has melee power that is so over the top that there is literally nothing that I can compare him against, and all of this at a price equivalent of a small scout Titan, something that is massively weaker on all aspects.

welcome to yet another episode of why the fans don't write the rules...

You say that as though the company that owns this IP is even remotely competent at rules writing themselves.

 Dakkamite wrote:
You say that as though the company that owns this IP is even remotely competent at rules writing themselves.

Hyperbole much?

I always want to field an Inquisitor w/ a pet Cherubael. He could definitely take out titans and survive hits as he did kill a chaos titan. I was thinking just take a an Iquistor and use a deamon host with War Hound stats.

I would assume you would base this on the Avatar, but instead of being the apex of the various aspect warriors, it would take after the wraith constructs instead.

Avatar of Ynnead

Unit type: Monstrous creature

WS 10
BS 10
S 6
T 8
W 6
I 10
A 5
Sv 3+

Special Rules:
Battle Focus
Daemon
Fearless
Fleet
move through cover
Psycher ML 4 (Telepathy, Runes of Battle, Runes of Witnessing, Divinination)
Last Refuge of the Eldar
Aura of Doom

Equipment:
Mindshock pod
Forceshield
Ushebbon, The Cobra's Fang
Ghostglaive

Ushebbon:
The last weapon forged by Vaul, Ushebbon is a horrific distort weapon of terrible power so dangerous that only the dead can wield it. It has two profiles, and the controlling player can choose which to use each turn.

Focused: R24 S10 AP2 heavy 1, blast, barrage, distort
Dispersed: R Template, S6 AP2 Assault 1 Distort

Last Refuge of the Eldar:
All Eldar within 12' of the Avatar are empowered by the souls of their ancestors. Wraith constructs gain battle focus and fleet, eldar infantry gain stubborn and are immune to fear.

Aura of Doom:
As the eldar die around their Avatar, their souls join it and add to its power. Keep track of the number of eldar models destroyed and apply the following benefits:

# of models destroyed/Benefit:
10 models/ +2 S
20 models/ Ynnead generates an additional warp token each turn
30 models/ Ynnead gains regenerate on a 5+
40 models/ all enemy units within 24' of Ynnead suffer a -3 penalty to LD
50 models/ Ynnead may forgo all his shooting attacks to fire a single R36, S D, Apocalyptic blast, each turn

this would be around 600 points, If I were to guess, around the transcendent Ctan's cost.

750 pts, T: 3, 3, wounds, and everyone is crying foul? This poor sod wouldn't make to turn two. And even if you can put shots down the literal street from weapon range, if you cant move, people just stay out of your cone of fire. And, if he isn't moving, he isn't closing to assault. The original is by no means stronger than Durandals concept. If this were rules as written for Eldar Apoc you'd never see it, so if your opponent agrees, it's perfectly fine at least... Way underpowered at best.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
You say that as though the company that owns this IP is even remotely competent at rules writing themselves.

Hyperbole much?

False dichotomy. GW can write rules, they have great books and they have colossal screwups and the problem is between the long turnover time and the fact that the great books and the screwups exist in the same meta means the screwups make a lot more noise. Fans can write rules, and people who want to actually write playable rules coexist with morons who decide "Here are rules for the Emperor. Ten in all stats, Psychic Mastery ten, 2+ rerollable Inv, resurrects on death...", but since the playable rules have a smaller fandom than the crap rules have a hatedom the bad stuff again makes more noise.

Don't squash the fan rule writers because you think game design should be a secret art practiced by a select few with the capital to produce pretty pictures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Will1541 wrote:
750 pts, T: 3, 3, wounds, and everyone is crying foul? This poor sod wouldn't make to turn two. And even if you can put shots down the literal street from weapon range, if you cant move, people just stay out of your cone of fire. And, if he isn't moving, he isn't closing to assault. The original is by no means stronger than Durandals concept. If this were rules as written for Eldar Apoc you'd never see it, so if your opponent agrees, it's perfectly fine at least... Way underpowered at best.

I know he'd be target number one for my Deathwing alpha strike Apocalypse force. Throwing aside the idea of this being literally an avatar of Ynnead and the immense fluff debates that result I'm hesitant to permit Destroyer-strength attacks as psychic powers possessed by a single model; conceptually fluffwise the rules actually might make sense split up among several models as a sort of Seer Council of people with Death Mission up and running the entire game (not literally). I'm hypothesizing again here but I'm going to go grab Mymeara and the Bel-Annath rules; running from this I may suggest the following:

Deathseer (name sounds silly but it's the best I've got right now) (about 150pts)
WS 10, BS 10, S 3, T 3, W 3, I 10, A 3, Ld 10, Sv -
Unit: Independent Character
Wargear: Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear, Ghosthelm.
Special Rules: Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Independent Character, Psyker (Mastery 3, may select powers from Runes of Battle, Telekinesis, or Pyromancy), Doomed (at the end of every game turn any side that controls one or more Deathseers must expend a Strategic Resource point. If they do not all their Deathseers take a Wound with no saves allowed.).

Doomguard
Formation: Psychic Choir. 4-6 Deathseers.
Unique powers: Blade of Souls: Warp Charge 4, activate at the beginning of your turn. Until the beginning of your next turn all Singing Spears and Witchblades wielded by members of the target unit become AP2. Psychic Tempest: Warp Charge 9, 60", Str D/10/9, AP 1/2/3, Apocalyptic Mega-Blast, Ordnance 1. If the Doomguard uses Psychic Tempest they may not use any other Psychic Powers in that turn.

Keeps with the idea of a terrifying Eldar Apocalypse unit using small models but doesn't play fast and loose with the fluff quite so much, doesn't have quite the same array of powerful abilities, and it's more fairly priced.

(For the first one, a single waves serpent can kill it, and to revive it costs another 70-100 points.)
(also its a character not an IC so no look out sir.)