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So I bought the 'on contaminated grounds' apoc rules and it had me thinking: how would fighting on a rad world work? Say an imperial chimera gets ripped open and the soldiers inside get exposed. What about the contaminated winds as per the rules? Would a mere breeze kill with radiation?

Heh, I'm not exactly an expert in the matter, but I was just looking up the biological effects of radiation for a non-hobby related project. Check this website out, hope it helps.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/radiation.php

Just for reference, the fallout from a 10kt bomb produces 4.0 Sieverts of radiation in a 20km2 area. Enough to induce potentially fatal radiation sickness after just 30 minutes of exposure.

It would have to be a LOT of Radiation to kill that quickly. As in, more radiation than you would get than being directly exposed to a reactor. I believe that at that level it would start interfering with electronics.
It's a little silly when you think about it but I guess it's better than having a rule stating your models will die within 1-2 days of organ failure.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It would have to be a LOT of Radiation to kill that quickly. As in, more radiation than you would get than being directly exposed to a reactor. I believe that at that level it would start interfering with electronics.
It's a little silly when you think about it but I guess it's better than having a rule stating your models will die with 1-2 days of organ failure.

I dunno...
That could be mildly entertaining.

Would there still be the poison wind effect like in the game mode?

Uhhh... it could if super irradiated fallout was coming down or if the dust was really radioactive. But if this was the case then your guys would all be dead by the end of the game, if my knowledge of radiation was correct.

But you can fall into a comma, if exposed to a high dose. Given that 40k "death"is not necessarily death (can be incapacitating injuries), severe radiation poisoning can still be represented.

A "turn" in 40k is just a fraction of a second, though, so those effects aren't probably immediate in game terms. My idea: Define "safe" and "exposed" areas. If a non-vehicle unit ends its turn on the exposed parts of the board, apply permanent debuffs - One turn, -1 to T (normal effects of a Rad Grenade). Two turns, penalties to WS, BS, and I. Three turns, remove from play.

Still not very "scientific", but it's 40k, so feth you, science

Agent Tremelo, you ignorant slut! 40k is 111% science!

Well, from a fluff standpoint, if someone were ripping open a Chimera, I don't think the guardsmen are going to be worried about the radiation so much as the ravenous unmentionables about to disembowel them.


But generally speaking, I would imagine that the effects of radiation are limited only by your imagination; given the vast number of worlds that exist in the galaxy. Radioactive effects could be something as severe as chemical burns from mere exposure to the atmosphere or liquification of organs upon inhalation. Or they could be as subtle as nausea, dizziness, or long-term illness. Generally, applying real-world science doesn't really capture the essence or gravity of what the 40k galaxy is all about, so it's better to just use your imagination when it comes to things like this. I mean, what do you think it would be like to live on a world completely immersed in radiation?

There are several mechanisms that radiation causes damage with. Depending on the mechanism of what caused the radioactivity, you would have different radioactive decays going on as different radioactive products would have been created. For example, weapon A may produce a lot of decay products which emit alpha and beta radiation and last a long time at harmful levels, while weapon B produces a much more quickly decaying radioactive pathway, while "natural radiation A" may cause a lot of gama radiation, or even x-rays or high levels of UV, especially UVC (think a planet in orbit around a certain type of star).

Now, as has been mentioned, in order to incapacitate healthy troops in the time frame of a single game, the radioactivity would have to be pretty damn high. As in "fighting in the core of a nuclear reactor or at ground zero only a short time after detonation".

You also have to remember what type of radiation you are dealing with. Alpha and UVC woild probably be stopped by clothing, beta and low power x-rays would be stopped by protective gear (ie lead impregnated clothing), while high power x-rays up to gamma rays may require you to stay in a tank or bunker. You woild also require filtration systema for air and water to prevent radioactive material from getting inside your protective barriers.

I would suggest given the imperiums usual ability to protect its citizens, any force or population on such a world would be quite ill after a few weeks, months or years.

I've been watching Galactica on the box lately and this thread got me thinking about a particular scene/s. It's the one/s where the man and woman (the woman being a silon) are running around a radiated world with no protective clothing or such other than a few injections in their neck. What radiation would this protect you from, or does it only stave off the affects of rad sickness for a time to allow you to remain combat effective?

Rule wise, modified zone mortalis maybe?

Even if applying some real life science, said troops if exposed even for shjprt time to extreme radiation, there dead, veichals contaminated.

High radiation will kill you slowly, or fast, but in the end will kill you.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
I've been watching Galactica on the box lately and this thread got me thinking about a particular scene/s. It's the one/s where the man and woman (the woman being a silon) are running around a radiated world with no protective clothing or such other than a few injections in their neck. What radiation would this protect you from, or does it only stave off the affects of rad sickness for a time to allow you to remain combat effective?

I am not sure what they have, though I know the scene you mean. Currently for some types of radioactivity (such as radioactive iodine), we give non-radioactive iodine to people. This binds in places like the thyroid and prevents the radioactive iodine from building up and causing damage.

There are already rules for an apoc game using this, and the extent so far is the radiation wasteland table

1-2: dangerous terrain checks in a certain area
3-4: poison hits for all units outside an enclosed vehicle
5-6: nuclear flare/explosion

3-4 is what interest me the most, as I can imagine a hurricane type windstorm that just melts insides after a few seconds exposure. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense though.

On a side note would necrons and plague marines still be effected?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
There are already rules for an apoc game using this, and the extent so far is the radiation wasteland table

1-2: dangerous terrain checks in a certain area
3-4: poison hits for all units outside an enclosed vehicle
5-6: nuclear flare/explosion

3-4 is what interest me the most, as I can imagine a hurricane type windstorm that just melts insides after a few seconds exposure. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense though.

On a side note would necrons and plague marines still be effected?

for the "rad wind" it is quite possible to have something like that happen. Radiation itself isn't so bad and usually dissipates quite quickly, so you will be fine if you aren't directly exposed. If radiation hits dust/dirt/rocks it gets absorbed and stays a lot longer. That radioactive dirt and dust is actually what causes "fallout". It's distributed by the force of the explosion. I could imagine that if this world is just naturally radioactive than any loose dirt on the surface would have picked up incredible amounts of radiation by this point, and any random whether process that stirs up a dust storm would have incredibly lethal results for anybody stuck in it. (side note, this is why Project orion, a spacecraft powered by nuclear explosions, would have been relatively safe once it got into the upper atmosphere, but very dangerous on the ground).

I'd be curious about Thousand Sons...their internal organs are already gone by this point....and demons. I guess you just have to do some hand waving on that point.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
There are already rules for an apoc game using this, and the extent so far is the radiation wasteland table

1-2: dangerous terrain checks in a certain area
3-4: poison hits for all units outside an enclosed vehicle
5-6: nuclear flare/explosion

3-4 is what interest me the most, as I can imagine a hurricane type windstorm that just melts insides after a few seconds exposure. I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense though.

On a side note would necrons and plague marines still be effected?

Well...you could argue that the electromagnetic field from the radiation interferes with the necrons' circuitry, and that plague marines, whilst resistant towards diseases, still get their molecules messed up.

No idea what would happen to demons and rubrae though. Maybe intense radiation messes with magic?

Thanks SilverMK2.

Well, guys like Space Marines, CSM's, Tyranids, and Necrons would be immune to the radiation for obvious reasons, with the Necrons and Nids invulnerable. What I'd suggest as a special rule is that any SM or CSM's on the rad world, upon taking a wound, need to role a save from instant death, as their armor is breached. If they fail it they immediately go into hibernation and the Mucranoid seals their body to protect them.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Thanks SilverMK2.

No problem. Am on my phone or I would give you more information. Check out wikipedia for nuclear fallout - I seem to remember there are a few good articles on the kind of radiation contamination you are likely to encounter in certain events and ways of dealing with it.

There are a few good "prepper" sites as well if you are willing to wade through things. Look for ones talking about building fallout shelters and air filtration systems etc rather than bloggers talking about loading up on guns and headung to the hills

There are even a few copies of army manuals for dealing with nuclear events around the internet.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Thanks SilverMK2.

No problem. Am on my phone or I would give you more information. Check out wikipedia for nuclear fallout - I seem to remember there are a few good articles on the kind of radiation contamination you are likely to encounter in certain events and ways of dealing with it.

There are a few good "prepper" sites as well if you are willing to wade through things. Look for ones talking about building fallout shelters and air filtration systems etc rather than bloggers talking about loading up on guns and headung to the hills

There are even a few copies of army manuals for dealing with nuclear events around the internet.

Cool I need the info for my story as it's a piece of the puzzle I've overlooked.

Cool. Unfortunately I don't work in radiation protection and all my (limited) radiation protection is focused on medical radiation

The injections may also contain immune boosters as radioactivity can really destroy the immune syatem.

 fallinq wrote:
Agent Tremelo, you ignorant slut! 40k is 111% science!

That made me laugh really hard...

If it helps, Think of all the fallout games #1 to tactics and even New Vegas.

If the radiation was coming from the sun, rather than the terrain, it could make sense. If the sun is intense enough, any exposure could kill you quite quickly.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
If the radiation was coming from the sun, rather than the terrain, it could make sense. If the sun is intense enough, any exposure could kill you quite quickly.

This would be much more likely, and quite lethal to everything that isn't a Tyranid or a Necron, gamma radiation does nasty things to one's organs and DNA.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
If the radiation was coming from the sun, rather than the terrain, it could make sense. If the sun is intense enough, any exposure could kill you quite quickly.

That could be a source of such deadly radiation, yes, but... I would imagine that at the end of the game almost everyone would be dead unless they were in shielded craft. Which is the problem with this scenario. How do you get radiation deadly enough to kill you instantly if you whiff it but not pervasive enough to just flat out kill you?

What's even more stranger is that they are just plain poison hits. Radiation isn't really a "All-or-nothing" killer especially at such high levels. Even if it doesn't kill you upon first exposure it should weaken anyone exposed to it and eventually killing them. But 40k's relationship with science is like Games Workshop's relationship with the internet. It realizes it's there on a superficial level, uses it the parts that it likes but doesn't actually understand what the feth they are looking at.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
If the radiation was coming from the sun, rather than the terrain, it could make sense. If the sun is intense enough, any exposure could kill you quite quickly.

That could be a source of such deadly radiation, yes, but... I would imagine that at the end of the game almost everyone would be dead unless they were in shielded craft. Which is the problem with this scenario. How do you get radiation deadly enough to kill you instantly if you whiff it but not pervasive enough to just flat out kill you?

What's even more stranger is that they are just plain poison hits. Radiation isn't really a "All-or-nothing" killer especially at such high levels. Even if it doesn't kill you upon first exposure it should weaken anyone exposed to it and eventually killing them. But 40k's relationship with science is like Games Workshop's relationship with the internet. It realizes it's there on a superficial level, uses it the parts that it likes but doesn't actually understand what the feth they are looking at.

The randomness of radiation could be explained by intermittent solar flairs.

Which would explain post heresy Calth kind of radiation. It makes sense, too. Maybe a very thin atmosphere from a war or the sun is going critical.

But what about an extinction level nuclear war? I suppose there are sites I could find, but would it be as dangerous as a rouge star's radiation?

And in the rules it does state that some warriors die hours later after the battle

It depends, really. It depends on the world's distance from the stars, the payloads of these weapons and the environmental conditions. If really, really powerful nukes went off on a dusty world it would produce some pretty bad fallout.

I am just trying to picture the conditions that would cause some members to drop dead instantly while leaving others completely able to fight on in a group of like individuals.

Maybe in the GrimDark future of the 41st Millennium atomic decay can be a troll?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It depends, really. It depends on the world's distance from the stars, the payloads of these weapons and the environmental conditions. If really, really powerful nukes went off on a dusty world it would produce some pretty bad fallout.

I am just trying to picture the conditions that would cause some members to drop dead instantly while leaving others completely able to fight on in a group of like individuals.

Maybe in the GrimDark future of the 41st Millennium atomic decay can be a troll?

You have to remember too that most Imperium nuclear weapons and power are fusion powered, meaning they'll likely spurt out gamma radiation if the miniature star is large enough (fusion bombs are pretty much miniature supernovas after all).