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 Ashiraya wrote:
Mind you, Ultramarines: The Movie is a perfect example of a piece of fluff that is immensely contradictory.

Such as Ultramarines recruits starting out as Tacticals and skipping the Scout stage. (lol, given what happened in the Ultramarines novels where they kicked one of their captains to the Warp for a tactically sound maneuver that contradicted the Codex...)

Calling people fanboys will not do you good. Especially since you show your own bias by doing so, turning it into hypocrisy as well (Yes, I am a fangirl. But so is Bobthehero. Weird that I don't see you calling him a fanboy, hmm? Maybe it does not benefit your argument?)

That movie is as canon as anything else... And since it contradicts so much, I will happily ignore it.

I like Chaos, I just see them as just another threat.

One of the big four threats, yes.

But still, one of many.

In addition, my military background makes me see war as not an affair of soldiery or tactics; but simple numbers and production capacity. And the followers of Chaos have fewer mortal followers than the Imperium by orders of magnitude even when most of the Imperium isn't on a total war footing.

Chaos is more than a scittering tide of pasty bugz. We cannot be washed away and wiped, we will push forever onwards! Once we claim that corpse the Imperium calls an Emperor our forces of daemons and Chaos legions will pour forth in unstoppable wave of fury and a 5th Chaos god will be born. You nor any sentient being in this galaxy will stand to our gestalt presence!

 Kain wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Cursed Founding wrote:
It might be that the loyalists are getting their new mar 8 'errant' armor and their mark 3 'sunfury' plasma pistols and all the fancy new gunships and tanks.

I agree to Gjd123. They have all the forge worlds and, not to forget, all the STCs which give them a huge advantage.

Sometimes it feels awkward but maybe the people who like normal SM have higher numbers so they choose to please the major group.

Also, I read a lot of books that have equal fights and equal destruction (ex. on malodrax the entire Imperial fists 1st company is wiped out with almost no losses to the Iron warriors

Mark 8 'Errant' Armour is inferior to any form of Heresy armour except the crap one that got mass-produced.. MKV I think it was. Imperial technology has continued to degrade since the Heresy, leading to general stagnation around the Imperium.
I also think that there is more love for CSMs than SMs, it's just all the little 12-year-olds that ask their mummy for more Ultramarines that push SMs up the ladder.

Also CSMs have Chaos Relics, more powerful Psykers, living Primarchs, superior technology, superior numbers, mutations (some helpful and some not), demons, cult troops, demon engines, demon worlds, possessed, more defensible turf (the warp), the ability to corrupt and whatever else I've missed.

This is still completely valid you know.

And I like to annoy Chaos fanboys with it.

Or a few Tanith guardsmen and Musket wielding Primitives Slaughtering five veterans of the long war like a bunch of scrubs.

Also according to Kelly the Legions flat out don't exist as an organizational unit anymore.

That's not plot armor or fanboi-ism, they were just playing 6th ed.

If so, I think the dice were loaded...

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Cursed Founding wrote:
It might be that the loyalists are getting their new mar 8 'errant' armor and their mark 3 'sunfury' plasma pistols and all the fancy new gunships and tanks.

I agree to Gjd123. They have all the forge worlds and, not to forget, all the STCs which give them a huge advantage.

Sometimes it feels awkward but maybe the people who like normal SM have higher numbers so they choose to please the major group.

Also, I read a lot of books that have equal fights and equal destruction (ex. on malodrax the entire Imperial fists 1st company is wiped out with almost no losses to the Iron warriors

Mark 8 'Errant' Armour is inferior to any form of Heresy armour except the crap one that got mass-produced.. MKV I think it was. Imperial technology has continued to degrade since the Heresy, leading to general stagnation around the Imperium.
I also think that there is more love for CSMs than SMs, it's just all the little 12-year-olds that ask their mummy for more Ultramarines that push SMs up the ladder.

Also CSMs have Chaos Relics, more powerful Psykers, living Primarchs, superior technology, superior numbers, mutations (some helpful and some not), demons, cult troops, demon engines, demon worlds, possessed, more defensible turf (the warp), the ability to corrupt and whatever else I've missed.

This is still completely valid you know.

And I like to annoy Chaos fanboys with it.

Or a few Tanith guardsmen and Musket wielding Primitives Slaughtering five veterans of the long war like a bunch of scrubs.

Also according to Kelly the Legions flat out don't exist as an organizational unit anymore.

That's not plot armor or fanboi-ism, they were just playing 6th ed.

...

This comment is so truthful it made me hurt deep inside.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Mind you, Ultramarines: The Movie is a perfect example of a piece of fluff that is immensely contradictory.

Such as Ultramarines recruits starting out as Tacticals and skipping the Scout stage. (lol, given what happened in the Ultramarines novels where they kicked one of their captains to the Warp for a tactically sound maneuver that contradicted the Codex...)

Calling people fanboys will not do you good. Especially since you show your own bias by doing so, turning it into hypocrisy as well (Yes, I am a fangirl. But so is Bobthehero. Weird that I don't see you calling him a fanboy, hmm? Maybe it does not benefit your argument?)

That movie is as canon as anything else... And since it contradicts so much, I will happily ignore it.

Well said, couldn't have put it any better myself.

The backstory of UM: The Movie explains why they go from Scouts to Tacticals so quickly. Yes, it's a plot device, and is not really touched on in the movie, but it explains why they send what is basically a bunch of kids on such a critical mission. Basically, the rest of the company was busy fighting Tyranids somewhere else.

 Psienesis wrote:
The backstory of UM: The Movie explains why they go from Scouts to Tacticals so quickly. Yes, it's a plot device, and is not really touched on in the movie, but it explains why they send what is basically a bunch of kids on such a critical mission. Basically, the rest of the company was busy fighting Tyranids somewhere else.

AKA the fight that probably would have made a better story, but the animators had neither the talent or budget to render it.

Eh, Chaos forces are stupidly outnumbered by loyalist IG that they won't get really far in, since the IoM controls space, they'll pour in enough troops to beat back the Black Crusade.

Oooooh, and then our awesome Grey Knights of doom will enter the Warp and murderize everything Chaos, wooohoooo!

And then everyone gets eaten, way to crap on the parade, Nids >:c

Also according to Kelly the Legions flat out don't exist as an organizational unit anymore.

According to Space Marines codex everyone wants to be an Ultramarine, even the non-adherants.

We just typically ignore the fluff that makes absolutely no sense beyond reasoning. Like Kelly and his chaos hatred.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Eh, Chaos forces are stupidly outnumbered by loyalist IG that they won't get really far in, since the IoM controls space, they'll pour in enough troops to beat back the Black Crusade.

Oooooh, and then our awesome Grey Knights of doom will enter the Warp and murderize everything Chaos, wooohoooo!

And then everyone gets eaten, way to crap on the parade, Nids >:c

Actually the IOM do not control space, The 13th Crusade is still going on and has conquered large swathes of Segmentum Obscuras. As of current, the Imperial Fleet is in control of the Sector Lanes but cannot push into solar systems as they don't have the might to fight the Chaos Fleet.

Chaos is actually a lot like Orks in how much of a threat they are. Left to their own devices they are little more than street gangs with magic power trying to bully defenseless civilians around because it makes them tingle with delight. However, when a charismatic warlord (Abaddon the armless failure, Angron etc.) they can REALLY ruin the Imperium's day. Just read about the various organized offenses Chaos underwent. The Gothic War, Dominion of Fire and the 13th Black Crusade are just some examples.

Chaos may not have the infrastructure or organization that the Imperium does but it has magic powers on it's side. With it's super special space magic it can corrupt Imperial populations to give them the resources and manpower it needs. They can make an army where they didn't have one with little to no effort on their part while taking one from the Imperium. It also has elite super soldiers that are not only magically imbued but also veterans of the most brutal warfare one can imagine. To underestimate the threat they present is uninformed at best.

However, what the Imperium has on them is an organized, dedicated and motivated military. The Lost and the Damned could never reach the heights of the Astra Militarium and the Adeptus Astartes outnumber their traitor counterparts by a good margin. There is also forces such as the Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and the Inquisition that is very aware of the threat of Chaos and has the tools to deal with it. The only reason why the Imperium hasn't crushed the forces of Chaos (Not Chaos itself, mind you. Just Chaos marines/LatD) is because it is beset on all sides by evil and powerful aliens.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Chaos is actually a lot like Orks in how much of a threat they are. Left to their own devices they are little more than street gangs with magic power trying to bully defenseless civilians around because it makes them tingle with delight. However, when a charismatic warlord (Abaddon the armless failure, Angron etc.) they can REALLY ruin the Imperium's day. Just read about the various organized offenses Chaos underwent. The Gothic War, Dominion of Fire and the 13th Black Crusade are just some examples.

Chaos may not have the infrastructure or organization that the Imperium does but it has magic powers on it's side. With it's super special space magic it can corrupt Imperial populations to give them the resources and manpower it needs. They can make an army where they didn't have one with little to no effort on their part while taking one from the Imperium. It also has elite super soldiers that are not only magically imbued but also veterans of the most brutal warfare one can imagine. To underestimate the threat they present is uninformed at best.

However, what the Imperium has on them is an organized, dedicated and motivated military. The Lost and the Damned could never reach the heights of the Astra Militarium and the Adeptus Astartes outnumber their traitor counterparts by a good margin. There is also forces such as the Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle and the Inquisition that is very aware of the threat of Chaos and has the tools to deal with it. The only reason why the Imperium hasn't crushed the forces of Chaos (Not Chaos itself, mind you. Just Chaos marines/LatD) is because it is beset on all sides by evil and powerful aliens.

And because if the Imperium tried to crush the CSM/LATD, they could just retreat to the Eye and enjoy perhaps the single most unwise-to-attack shelter in 40k.

Once they have passed through the Eye and into the Warp itself, the Imperium must either retreat or follow them right into the jaws of their doom.

Imperial might is well and good but it helps you nothing while in the Warp where the Chaos Gods themselves can smack you around.

Aye, but Chaos could not really do much else besides mess with each other in that situation. The moment they leave the eye the entire Imperium would come down on them since they have no other enemies.

Well, you could argue that with no enemies the Imperium would come apart but that's another can of worms.

I'd argue that if Chaos unites against the Imperium, the Imperium is fethed.

Time is on Chaos' side in this conflict. Literally, due to the nature of time in the Warp.

I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

Time is non-linear in the Warp. Once the Warp is united and on the side of the CSM, the CSM can not only strike where they want, but also when they want.

They can sabotage the Imperium before the war even has begun, or wait until the Imperium has aged to only bones and dust.

That can never happen, unfortunately. The warp isn't a being that can side on either Chaos or the Imperium. It is just a dimension. An unstable one at that. Sure, they could possibly learn how to manipulate it to their favor but they could end up in deep space, 1000 years in the future or with half of their number mysteriously gone. Or a combination of all of that. Such is the vagaries of the warp.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Except for the 13th. Lol.

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Oh, yes, that is right. Derp. Well, they can't really create a quality force on the level of the Adeptus Astartes unless they manage to make a more effecient version of the Daemonculba or something similar. One bad thing about Chaos is that it's taint mutates and warps what it touches which isn't conducive to creating an organized army especially with the way new Space Marines are created. If I am not wrong, the reason why the traitors need to harvest the gene seed of loyalists is because the gene seed harvested from Chaos marines is too unstable to be viable.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Oh, yes, that is right. Derp. Well, they can't really create a quality force on the level of the Adeptus Astartes unless they manage to make a more effecient version of the Daemonculba or something similar. One bad thing about Chaos is that it's taint mutates and warps what it touches which isn't conducive to creating an organized army especially with the way new Space Marines are created. If I am not wrong, the reason why the traitors need to harvest the gene seed of loyalists is because the gene seed harvested from Chaos marines is too unstable to be viable.

The thing about the Adeptas is that they don't actually create that many in number, and usually create to replenish numbers rather then creating to make super huge armies, Chaos really doesn't have that sort of stipulation, and the recruitment for space marines is pretty low as well due to the fact that as said they are regulated when creating, need proper recruits from their recruiting worlds, and generally are kept in check by rules. So while Chaos has issues creating due to requiring outside gene-seed and new methods, the Space Marines aren't exactly creating numbers above that either, theirs is just far more stable.

Also the Black Crusades usually were about Abbadon getting things outside (and he slips past cadia), with the 13th being the only one to actually try and break Cadia...And if it wasn't for a retcon, he actually did!

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Oh, yes, that is right. Derp. Well, they can't really create a quality force on the level of the Adeptus Astartes unless they manage to make a more effecient version of the Daemonculba or something similar. One bad thing about Chaos is that it's taint mutates and warps what it touches which isn't conducive to creating an organized army especially with the way new Space Marines are created. If I am not wrong, the reason why the traitors need to harvest the gene seed of loyalists is because the gene seed harvested from Chaos marines is too unstable to be viable.

What do you mean by unstable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Aye, but Chaos could not really do much else besides mess with each other in that situation. The moment they leave the eye the entire Imperium would come down on them since they have no other enemies.

Well, you could argue that with no enemies the Imperium would come apart but that's another can of worms.

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

If everybody forgetting that in Legion Alpharius was told by the Cabal that if Horus was killed it would take 10,000 years for Chaos to destroy humanity? Looks like time is running out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

The problem is that there are two very broken factions in 40K. Chaos and Nids. Chaos can never lose as long as humanity (and to a lesser extent other sentient xenos) is around, and can only be destroyed with the destruction of the human race. As far as Nids go, the writers seem to have gone wild with writing out how uber they are and how helpless everybody else is, that there literally is NO HOPE for the rest of the galaxy from them. As far as books go, Nids have been written with more fanoi-ism in the grand scheme of things than all other races combined. Sure they lose battles in the books, but the books then never fail to remind you that it doesn't matter because it's like the equivalent of sterilizing one bacteria cell when there is a mountain of rotting trash rolling in behind it.

 herpguy wrote:
If everybody forgetting that in Legion Alpharius was told by the Cabal that if Horus was killed it would take 10,000 years for Chaos to destroy humanity? Looks like time is running out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

The problem is that there are two very broken factions in 40K. Chaos and Nids. Chaos can never lose as long as humanity (and to a lesser extent other sentient xenos) is around, and can only be destroyed with the destruction of the human race. As far as Nids go, the writers seem to have gone wild with writing out how uber they are and how helpless everybody else is, that there literally is NO HOPE for the rest of the galaxy from them. As far as books go, Nids have been written with more fanoi-ism in the grand scheme of things than all other races combined. Sure they lose battles in the books, but the books then never fail to remind you that it doesn't matter because it's like the equivalent of sterilizing one bacteria cell when there is a mountain of rotting trash rolling in behind it.

Yes, I agree. Nids have been made to look like they're unstoppable. Lets not forget that the nids are responsble for the destruction of half a dozen SM chapters and dozens and dozens of planets. With the way they've been portrayed I don't believe anybody will stop them, nobody. Hmanity as a whole is screwed. Apparently nids have already been in the Milky way galaxy once before. Indeginous creatures such as the Catachan Devil and the Fenrisian Kraken are rumoured to be organisms of ancient hive fleets. As interesting as that is they are probably gonna rape this galaxy one more time

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 herpguy wrote:
If everybody forgetting that in Legion Alpharius was told by the Cabal that if Horus was killed it would take 10,000 years for Chaos to destroy humanity? Looks like time is running out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

The problem is that there are two very broken factions in 40K. Chaos and Nids. Chaos can never lose as long as humanity (and to a lesser extent other sentient xenos) is around, and can only be destroyed with the destruction of the human race. As far as Nids go, the writers seem to have gone wild with writing out how uber they are and how helpless everybody else is, that there literally is NO HOPE for the rest of the galaxy from them. As far as books go, Nids have been written with more fanoi-ism in the grand scheme of things than all other races combined. Sure they lose battles in the books, but the books then never fail to remind you that it doesn't matter because it's like the equivalent of sterilizing one bacteria cell when there is a mountain of rotting trash rolling in behind it.

Yes, I agree. Nids have been made to look like they're unstoppable. Lets not forget that the nids are responsble for the destruction of half a dozen SM chapters and dozens and dozens of planets. With the way they've been portrayed I don't believe anybody will stop them, nobody. Hmanity as a whole is screwed. Apparently nids have already been in the Milky way galaxy once before. Indeginous creatures such as the Catachan Devil and the Fenrisian Kraken are rumoured to be organisms of ancient hive fleets. As interesting as that is they are probably gonnarpe this galaxy one more time

The fluff about there being way more Tyranids is only speculative.

The Tyranid codex outright states that the Hive Fleets we've seen in the Galaxy this far are vanguard fleets and there are *confirmed* new fleets (can't remember their names) that have entered the galaxy and started attacking planets.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Oh, yes, that is right. Derp. Well, they can't really create a quality force on the level of the Adeptus Astartes unless they manage to make a more effecient version of the Daemonculba or something similar. One bad thing about Chaos is that it's taint mutates and warps what it touches which isn't conducive to creating an organized army especially with the way new Space Marines are created. If I am not wrong, the reason why the traitors need to harvest the gene seed of loyalists is because the gene seed harvested from Chaos marines is too unstable to be viable.

What do you mean by unstable?

I mean that it's mutated. If you tried making more Space Marines out of the stuff you could end up with anything.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Aye, but Chaos could not really do much else besides mess with each other in that situation. The moment they leave the eye the entire Imperium would come down on them since they have no other enemies.

Well, you could argue that with no enemies the Imperium would come apart but that's another can of worms.

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

I was talking about a hypothetical situation where the Imperium's only enemy was Chaos. But yes, in the real 40k the Imperium will always have some big nasty trying to take it down. It would be pretty amusing if the Magos Biologists were wrong and what we are seeing now is the bulk of the overall Tyranid hive fleet, though.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I.. don't think they really would present much more of a threat given the time.They don't have the resources or structure to build up an attack force big enough to attack the Imperium unless the Daemonculba project or something similar was done to create more Chaos Space Marines. The only force they could really build up is the LatD but they aren't near organized, motivated or equipped enough to deal with the Imperial Guard. The Chaos Space Marines and their varying specialties is what seems to give Chaos it's edge to fight the Imperium. If Chaos does manage to make a new Legiones Astartes.. yeah, the Imperium is going to have a war on it's hands.

What? Chaos makes new astartes all he time. Pretty much every black library book focusing on the traitors has them harvesting geneseed, talking about recruiting to make up for losses or boost numbers before a crusade, and so on. Fabius Bile specifically goes about selling his favor to lords that want to start churning out new troops. Huron Blackheart attacks loyalist chapters to steal their geneseed and make more pirates.

Chaos does not have nearly the organized military might of the Imperium (nor should it!), but it has daemonic support, the help of traitors and cells inside the imperium, and more. The Imperium also has the disadvantage of being on the defensive. They cannot bring -too- much of their might to bear against a Black Crusade, say, or they start leaving their domain vulnerable against pesky orks, hungry tyranids, ambitious Necrons and the rebellion of their own systems.

Ths is sort of academic, though. Chas could have five time the power of the Imperium and it still would not win unless the writers wanted to steer the story in that direction. Hence why the big mess of Nids never arrives, Ghaz never seems to get past Armaggedon, and every Black Crusade -almost- breaks Cadia.

Oh, yes, that is right. Derp. Well, they can't really create a quality force on the level of the Adeptus Astartes unless they manage to make a more effecient version of the Daemonculba or something similar. One bad thing about Chaos is that it's taint mutates and warps what it touches which isn't conducive to creating an organized army especially with the way new Space Marines are created. If I am not wrong, the reason why the traitors need to harvest the gene seed of loyalists is because the gene seed harvested from Chaos marines is too unstable to be viable.

What do you mean by unstable?

I mean that it's mutated. If you tried making more Space Marines out of the stuff you could end up with anything.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Aye, but Chaos could not really do much else besides mess with each other in that situation. The moment they leave the eye the entire Imperium would come down on them since they have no other enemies.

Well, you could argue that with no enemies the Imperium would come apart but that's another can of worms.

There will never be a time the Imperium doesn't have any enemies. A matter a fact, I think nids are threatening creation itself. Billions and Billions of Tyranids exist within the boundaries of the Imperium and according to Magos Biologists trillions and trillions more of them have yet to appear. These damn things could probably even just overflow the eye of terror, they'll destroy everything.

I was talking about a hypothetical situation where the Imperium's only enemy was Chaos. But yes, in the real 40k the Imperium will always have some big nasty trying to take it down. It would be pretty amusing if the Magos Biologists were wrong and what we are seeing now is the bulk of the overall Tyranid hive fleet, though.

Ah, you're right. They do prefer loyal gene-seed but they can still recover some of their own fallen, it just depends on how old the gene-seed is. And yeah, we all hope the Magos are wrong but so far the evidence is overwhelming. As BlaxicanX stated this is only the vanguard of a terrifyingly tremendous horde of Tyranids. The galaxy is truly doomed. So, SM's should start partying and fornicating while they got the chance!

CSM lost even more marine due to them Having to weed out the loyalist among them. EX: Gavriel Loken and the Luna Wolves. I think about half of the traitor legions had to do this as well. Just look at the dropsite massacre.