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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Thus, it can go either way honestly.

IE, it is NOT "obvious".

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


However at the same time, we have Matt Wards purifiers from GK who are.

"Whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the temptations of the warp"

That quote is stated to be from an in-universe perspective. The Grey Knights wouldn't consider every last one of them to be completely incorruptible. Actually I don't think any of them would think it of themself since that opens the path to complacency.

Which implies that there's a degree of incorruptibility, not to mention the Bloodtide...

Turning their blades upon the surviving Battle-Sisters, the Grey Knights sated their blades in their innocent blood, effectively turning their weapons and armour into talismans of purity. The Grey Knights were then shielded from spiritual infection by the goreflood of the Bloodtide and were able to make their way into the heart of the cursed basilica

Which implies that the GK aren't exactly as pure anymore.

Where did you get that information from? I'm pretty sure it's not a quote from the Codex and it seems to distort the information we have.

Where did you get that information from? I'm pretty sure it's not a quote from the Codex and it seems to distort the information we have.

I used a more summed up version, it's on page 15: The Bloodtide returns.

Here's a main snippet from it.

"Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the Grey Knights' first act is to turn their blades upon the Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the Grey Knights' armour and weapons. So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption."

Which oddly enough the story also depicts a few sisters of battle falling to the corruption as well..Despite the fact there's only been one known sister to fall to chaos corruption.

So...yeah. Ambiguous is the stories.

For the most part, most fans assume that a Grey Knight or Sister never falling to Chaos means voluntarily. Involuntary things like the Blood Tide or the Hitler parody with the compelling voice in that Cain book are considered by fans to not count because they weren't voluntary.

I can't think of any other official examples that would imply as such besides those two, though (one of which comes from the Cain series).

EDIT: Well, the wording does say their souls are resistant to the TEMPTATIONS of the warp. Unfortunately, the exact specifics of what an unncorruptible soul is are undefined. For example, they do not answer the question, "Does being forced into a mad rage by the blood tide count as a corrupted soul?"

Correct. It's the willingness that doesn't happen with Sisters or GK. While they might get swamped and surrounded by Chaos Magics, even as their flesh sprouts tentacles and wings and collapses under the strain of the sudden mutations, the Sister or GK will die with a curse on their lips, singing the praises of the Emperor.

 herpguy wrote:


I really wish so hard that they would make Draigo corrupted in future books, but I know that will never happen. In the daemons book it's pretty clear that Slaanesh killed him, though loyalist players will never admit it.

This. I like Corvus Beli because they had no qualms in having a famous named character switch sides to keep up with the storyline (and get a bitching new model). It was a bit of a bummer for people that played the model, though, so it's not a 100% great thing. Mephiston is another who really should get a corrupted version sooner rather than later.

As for the whole "Well, good guys are just better organized and supplied and die for each other, so they are stronger" idea, it has holes you can sail the Trysagium through.

First, Chaos is not a single entity. You have Iron Warriors who are obsessed with logistics and will play out an invasion with scientific precision. You have Word Bearers who will gladly lay down their lives in the service of the pantheon and to protect their brothers and holy leaders. There's an entire Legion whose entire schtick is being so cunning and professional you hardly ever know they are in the fight. You have a bunch of forge worlds in the Eye of Terror and in the Maelstrom; nothing compared to the war machine that is the Imperium, but given that they don't have to protect the same territory, it's still a viable military force.

Also, the Imperium s far from 'good'. And not just in the truth and justice manner, but in ways that hamper it greatly. Entire Guard regiments and their ships are destroyed because they -might- have seen a daemon. Same thing goes for planetary populations. Even amid the loyal astartes there are divisions, rivalries and splits between chapters and even companies due to philosophy, origins and whatnot.

Basically, there are a lot of ways to write the 40k balance. The fact that they choose to write it with marines stomping the opposition and looking good doing it is just a consequence of them being the flag product.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I used a more summed up version, it's on page 15: The Bloodtide returns.

Here's a main snippet from it.

"Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the Grey Knights' first act is to turn their blades upon the Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the Grey Knights' armour and weapons. So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption."

Fair enough. When characters are said to be incorruptible in means that they won't willing turn to Chaos (as others have said). Outright mind control and possession don't count in my opinion. As for the Bloodtide, that was not only turning people berserk but also causing others to exploded; a risk the Grey Knights could ill afford considering their scant numbers.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I used a more summed up version, it's on page 15: The Bloodtide returns.

Here's a main snippet from it.

"Needing a talisman of purity to protect against the Bloodtide's taint, the Grey Knights' first act is to turn their blades upon the Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oils and used to anoint the Grey Knights' armour and weapons. So shielded, the Grey Knights are able to stride through the goreflood without risk of corruption."

Fair enough. When characters are said to be incorruptible in means that they won't willing turn to Chaos (as others have said). Outright mind control and possession don't count in my opinion. As for the Bloodtide, that was not only turning people berserk but also causing others to exploded; a risk the Grey Knights could ill afford considering their scant numbers.

Considering that the Sisters of Battle survived through purity alone, the fact that the GK, who already adorn their armor with sigils to protect against daemonic influence and trickery, what with the whole point of the Aegis, and needed to bathe in the blood of martyr's to become more 'pure' when they should be incorruptibly pure..

Unless they aren't exactly pure enough and that Sisters beat them there. I don't know what else that says besides that they could be turned.

 herpguy wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I really wish so hard that they would make Draigo corrupted in future books, but I know that will never happen. In the daemons book it's pretty clear that Slaanesh killed him, though loyalist players will never admit it.

Even as a Slaaneshi player I don't believe it, she didn't even kill him, he fell under his embrace, She enjoys playing with his toys after-all.

It says his "fire was extinguished." I take that as him dying. I would rather him come back as a Slaanesh champion than dead though lol. Also Slaanesh is always referred to as a "he".

his rightousness was extinguished. He is a Daemon Prince of Slanesh now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
Correct. It's the willingness that doesn't happen with Sisters or GK. While they might get swamped and surrounded by Chaos Magics, even as their flesh sprouts tentacles and wings and collapses under the strain of the sudden mutations, the Sister or GK will die with a curse on their lips, singing the praises of the Emperor.

no human incorruptible, and anything corruptible will be corrupted just to prove it can be. GK and Sisters are probably incredibly difficult to corrupt. There arent Chao GK or Chaos Sister warbands, but a champion or two, definitley.

 Exergy wrote:
Chaos Sister

Be careful, some people end up finding horse-heads in their beds for saying things like that here.

Eh, eh eh eh eh

Horse heads or find their 40k army/ies crushed in place of the horse head.

 Bobthehero wrote:


Horse heads or find their 40k army/ies crushed in place of the horse head.

Whoah, man. Too far.

You could give some people heart attacks.

Exergy wrote:no human incorruptible, and anything corruptible will be corrupted just to prove it can be. GK and Sisters are probably incredibly difficult to corrupt. There arent Chao GK or Chaos Sister warbands, but a champion or two, definitley.

Except there aren't, unless and until you start bringing 3rd-party sources and fan-fiction into the mix.

 Psienesis wrote:

Exergy wrote:no human incorruptible, and anything corruptible will be corrupted just to prove it can be. GK and Sisters are probably incredibly difficult to corrupt. There arent Chao GK or Chaos Sister warbands, but a champion or two, definitley.

Except there aren't, unless and until you start bringing 3rd-party sources and fan-fiction into the mix.

At least the former is just as canon as anything else, actually.

Or non-canon rather, since nothing is.

"3rd Party" is simply fan-fiction with a budget.

 Psienesis wrote:
"3rd Party" is simply fan-fiction with a budget.

So is "1st party", or at least it seems that way quality-wise sometimes

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
"3rd Party" is simply fan-fiction with a budget.

So is "1st party", or at least it seems that way quality-wise sometimes

Considering what they did to GK and the creation of Draigo I can't really disagree

Draigo is terrible, yes.

GK have always been... weird.

The Bloodtide thing isn't even that out-of-character for them, it's just badly written. The GK have always maintained their purity through the practice of the vilest sorceries and the blackest of magics, so using the blood of the pure as a protective talisman is not particularly unusual for them.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
"3rd Party" is simply fan-fiction with a budget.

So is "1st party", or at least it seems that way quality-wise sometimes

^This. And I am not sure the budget is well spent.

 Psienesis wrote:
Draigo is terrible, yes.

GK have always been... weird.

The Bloodtide thing isn't even that out-of-character for them, it's just badly written. The GK have always maintained their purity through the practice of the vilest sorceries and the blackest of magics, so using the blood of the pure as a protective talisman is not particularly unusual for them.

Yeah.

Blood magic, black sorcery, human sacrifices and the like is business as usual for GK. The more you learn about the GK the darker they become, and I think the Bloodtide fits their background, even if it is awfully written.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


Considering that the Sisters of Battle survived through purity alone, the fact that the GK, who already adorn their armor with sigils to protect against daemonic influence and trickery, what with the whole point of the Aegis, and needed to bathe in the blood of martyr's to become more 'pure' when they should be incorruptibly pure..

We have no idea why those Sisters of Battle survived the Bloodtide. It's possible that they simply weren't touched by the Bloodtide or that they were far enough away that they could resist the milder effects. The Grey Knights were using sorcery (blood holds power) not simply applying blood to themselves. They also had to use psychic powers to protect themselves; suggesting that it wasn't simply a spiritual corruption. The Bloodtide was also capable of exploding people which could have been what the Grey Knights were protecting themselves from rather than their minds being dominated. Personally, I don't think the Bloodtide was supposed to be a corrupting force in terms of willingly turning people to Chaos. It was essentially mind controlling\possessing people or killing them. I don't feel that that's the same as falling to Chaos.

A lot of people seem to think that because the Grey Knights use terms like "Paladins" and "Purifiers" that they represent the highest of knightly virtues and are, one and all, one step from being canonized as Saints.

They're not.

The Grey Knights are the 40K equivalent of the Knights Templar... including all the rumors, lies, accusations and charges leveled at them. Only, in the case of the GK, they're all true. The GK *do* practice sorcery and witchcraft, they *do* bind daemons and daemonic artifacts, they *do* employ the weapons of the Warp and Chaos in their purgation of the Daemon and the Heretic.

It is through various sorcerous rites, and the unique strength of their wills, that none have ever fallen to Chaos... which means that, while Chaos is certainly capable of killing them, or of using its various magics to corrupt their flesh and destroy their bodies... Chaos has never, ever managed to get one to say "Yes, you're right, feth the God-Emperor, I'm putting some spikes and more skulls on my armor and playing for Team Chaos!"

That's what the GK have never, ever done. Sisters, too. None of them have willingly joined forces with Chaos.