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As you can see, jim has home turf advantage (necron table). Will it save him from one of the cheesiest armies ever ?

Tims gravstar list is really strong, and misfortune is pretty much as good of a malediction as fortune is a blessing. I like his switch over to a jump pack on the e-shield master as it circumvents the focus fire issue the bikemaster has. Shame you lost, you were so close to that top 16 bid sir!

@jy2- actually they have removed the rulebook AND psychic cards in preparation for the rules update. This gives me hope at least that they will change the tables. I think we can all agree that those tables aren't remotely balanced. Prescience shouldn't be a power in my opinion (maybe 2 warp charges) let alone a primaris. I literally don't even remember all the pyromancy spells off the top of my head that's how bad they are.

Heres to hoping anyway.

 Ecstasy in Service wrote:
Thanks for the reply Jy2, I did think it was a slow army, I might fool around with bikes, drop pods or something to give the army a bit of reach.

I am still interested in trying the army as I do like a little thinking in my 40k, after playing gun line for a while I like some interesting strategy, which is the reason I play the game anyway

You're welcome.

Oftentimes, I find the fun to be in the experimenting. It's fun to try different stuff out until you find the combo that is just right for your taste. Have fun!

col_impact wrote:

I guess you are thinking Spyder Star would try to tackle Centstars or other Deathstars head on. I don't think that's necessarily the approach. The gutshot to pull off is to deploy a Deathmark(x5) and Despairtek(x2) killteam via Nightscythe 1" away from the Centstar, to punish the opponent from putting so many points into a single unit. Running Obyron means you can take a guerilla rather than head-on approach and keep your own Deathstar safe via teleport, even teleporting directly out of combat. Running Nemesor means you can get that Nightscythe anytime enemy reserves come on. What stops a Death and Despairtek team from wiping a good chunk of the Centstar and otherwise being a solid tool in such a Deathstar heavy field?

I will admit that my experience with the spyderstar is somewhat limited. From what I've seen so far, most spyderstar players are running something like this:

Zandrehk
Obyron
Destroyer Lord

Troops in Night Scythes

2x6 Wraiths

2x Annihilation Barges
3x Spyders


Spyderstar would teleport near the enemy to soak up their firepower whereas the wraiths advance to help out (or they deepstrike in on the opponent's turn). This tactic won't work against the Centurionstar as the spyders would only get shot to heck. Then the Centurionstar is only dealing with 2 units of wraiths instead of 2 units of wraiths + 2 Destroyer Lords.

Of course other spyderstar builds could exist. But in any case, if I was playing the Centurionstar against the spyderstar, I would keep all my units close to the Centurionstar. Thus, even if the spyderstar was to try to go after my other units (a la guerilla tactics), they'd most likely have to move into the potential 30" threat range of the Centurions.

D&D (Death & Despair) crons can potentially hurt the Centurionstar, but they won't be able to cripple them, even if you run 2 units. The Centstar can minimize the damage as long as they spread out and put those 2+/3++ Chapter Masters at the ends (were the enemy is most likely coming), they should take a couple of wounds at most. And in the case they get Forewarning (like they did in my game), damage can even be limited furthermore. Keep in mind that the centurions are T5 with 2W each and can't be insta-killed by the Despair-teks. Neither can the Chapter Masters (T5 for one, Eternal Warrior for the other).

Now I'm not saying that the spyderstar wouldn't work against the Centurionstar. IMO, I just think that wraithwing Necrons actually match up better against the Centurionstar, but this is just my cursory impressions without any playtesting of the spyderstar yet.

thanatos67 wrote:
As you can see, jim has home turf advantage (necron table). Will it save him from one of the cheesiest armies ever ?

Tims gravstar list is really strong, and misfortune is pretty much as good of a malediction as fortune is a blessing. I like his switch over to a jump pack on the e-shield master as it circumvents the focus fire issue the bikemaster has. Shame you lost, you were so close to that top 16 bid sir!

So says the Tau player in Hammer & Anvil deployment. Goodness, if there's anything I hate playing against more, it's 2+ re-rollable's and Tau in H&A deployment. I'm just glad the Ovesastar can't also take a farseer for Fortune as well. Haha....

Well, I already played against 1 Tau player in H&A at Adepticon so far. Let's see if my luck against them can continue.

Yeah, it just wasn't meant to be. I've been lucky so far. In almost every major tournament that I've been to so far in my brief tournament career (see my sig below), I've won something. This was actually the first one where I didn't. I know I could take on his (Tim's) list. I still feel that it is actually a favorable matchup for me, but I guess I'm just going to have to try again next time.

Thanks for the game Justin. Our battle will be coming out soon.

 Red Corsair wrote:
@jy2- actually they have removed the rulebook AND psychic cards in preparation for the rules update. This gives me hope at least that they will change the tables. I think we can all agree that those tables aren't remotely balanced. Prescience shouldn't be a power in my opinion (maybe 2 warp charges) let alone a primaris. I literally don't even remember all the pyromancy spells off the top of my head that's how bad they are.

Heres to hoping anyway.

The thing they really need to change the most is the Allies matrix. With the exception of Tau and Eldar, that matrix is just so biased against the Xenos armies it isn't even funny.

And for the armies without access to psychic powers, they should at least give them better psychic defense to balance it out.

Well, here's to hoping.

Spyderstar is best supplemented with plenty of Scarabs. Wraiths are not necessary in my opinion. Of course scarab farm is considered passé now.

 jy2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

I guess you are thinking Spyder Star would try to tackle Centstars or other Deathstars head on. I don't think that's necessarily the approach. The gutshot to pull off is to deploy a Deathmark(x5) and Despairtek(x2) killteam via Nightscythe 1" away from the Centstar, to punish the opponent from putting so many points into a single unit. Running Obyron means you can take a guerilla rather than head-on approach and keep your own Deathstar safe via teleport, even teleporting directly out of combat. Running Nemesor means you can get that Nightscythe anytime enemy reserves come on. What stops a Death and Despairtek team from wiping a good chunk of the Centstar and otherwise being a solid tool in such a Deathstar heavy field?

I will admit that my experience with the spyderstar is somewhat limited. From what I've seen so far, most spyderstar players are running something like this:

Zandrehk
Obyron
Destroyer Lord

Troops in Night Scythes

2x6 Wraiths

2x Annihilation Barges
3x Spyders


Spyderstar would teleport near the enemy to soak up their firepower whereas the wraiths advance to help out (or they deepstrike in on the opponent's turn). This tactic won't work against the Centurionstar as the spyders would only get shot to heck. Then the Centurionstar is only dealing with 2 units of wraiths instead of 2 units of wraiths + 2 Destroyer Lords.

Of course other spyderstar builds could exist. But in any case, if I was playing the Centurionstar against the spyderstar, I would keep all my units close to the Centurionstar. Thus, even if the spyderstar was to try to go after my other units (a la guerilla tactics), they'd most likely have to move into the potential 30" threat range of the Centurions.

D&D (Death & Despair) crons can potentially hurt the Centurionstar, but they won't be able to cripple them, even if you run 2 units. The Centstar can minimize the damage as long as they spread out and put those 2+/3++ Chapter Masters at the ends (were the enemy is most likely coming), they should take a couple of wounds at most. And in the case they get Forewarning (like they did in my game), damage can even be limited furthermore. Keep in mind that the centurions are T5 with 2W each and can't be insta-killed by the Despair-teks. Neither can the Chapter Masters (T5 for one, Eternal Warrior for the other).

Now I'm not saying that the spyderstar wouldn't work against the Centurionstar. IMO, I just think that wraithwing Necrons actually match up better against the Centurionstar, but this is just my cursory impressions without any playtesting of the spyderstar yet.

Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

And youre right that pure wraithwing without spyders/scarabs is more effective against centurionstar.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Spyderstar is best supplemented with plenty of Scarabs. Wraiths are not necessary in my opinion. Of course scarab farm is considered passé now.

It might be passé , but it is still nice. You know, last weekend I participated in Polish Team Championship, there where two powerful countries representations- Russia and England, both teams ran wraithwing combined with mini-farm. Its team championship not single but they do well as "exposed player" when opponents add their player to him.

Moreover you can play even with pure farm, here you have sample list:

Stormlord&Chronometron
Obyron
2xNS
8 footslogging NW
2x6 Wraiths
7 Scarabs
9 Spyders with 1 gloom prism

Its definitely not top-tier army, but well played can bring fun and some not bad outcomes.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Spyderstar is best supplemented with plenty of Scarabs. Wraiths are not necessary in my opinion. Of course scarab farm is considered passé now.

Normally, that would be true. I even thought that the first time I heard about the spyderstar, but after examining the list more carefully, I can see it functioning just as well without the scarabs if used in "deathstar-threat-overload" mode.

Here's how it would work. Spyders hide 1st turn. Then on Turn 2, they teleport into the enemy backfield. Then on your opponent's turn, when his reserves come in, you bring in your reserves as well via Zandrekh's Phased Reinforcements. Deepstrike both of your wraiths and your night scythes will come in as well. All of a sudden, it's not just the spyderstar they have to deal with. It's the spyderstar and 2 units of wraiths in their backfield, all of your flyers and your AB's as well. Basically, all of a sudden, your opponent has to deal with your entire army in their face and all at once!

 SwistakCZC wrote:

Spoiler:

 jy2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

I guess you are thinking Spyder Star would try to tackle Centstars or other Deathstars head on. I don't think that's necessarily the approach. The gutshot to pull off is to deploy a Deathmark(x5) and Despairtek(x2) killteam via Nightscythe 1" away from the Centstar, to punish the opponent from putting so many points into a single unit. Running Obyron means you can take a guerilla rather than head-on approach and keep your own Deathstar safe via teleport, even teleporting directly out of combat. Running Nemesor means you can get that Nightscythe anytime enemy reserves come on. What stops a Death and Despairtek team from wiping a good chunk of the Centstar and otherwise being a solid tool in such a Deathstar heavy field?

I will admit that my experience with the spyderstar is somewhat limited. From what I've seen so far, most spyderstar players are running something like this:

Zandrehk
Obyron
Destroyer Lord

Troops in Night Scythes

2x6 Wraiths

2x Annihilation Barges
3x Spyders


Spyderstar would teleport near the enemy to soak up their firepower whereas the wraiths advance to help out (or they deepstrike in on the opponent's turn). This tactic won't work against the Centurionstar as the spyders would only get shot to heck. Then the Centurionstar is only dealing with 2 units of wraiths instead of 2 units of wraiths + 2 Destroyer Lords.

Of course other spyderstar builds could exist. But in any case, if I was playing the Centurionstar against the spyderstar, I would keep all my units close to the Centurionstar. Thus, even if the spyderstar was to try to go after my other units (a la guerilla tactics), they'd most likely have to move into the potential 30" threat range of the Centurions.

D&D (Death & Despair) crons can potentially hurt the Centurionstar, but they won't be able to cripple them, even if you run 2 units. The Centstar can minimize the damage as long as they spread out and put those 2+/3++ Chapter Masters at the ends (were the enemy is most likely coming), they should take a couple of wounds at most. And in the case they get Forewarning (like they did in my game), damage can even be limited furthermore. Keep in mind that the centurions are T5 with 2W each and can't be insta-killed by the Despair-teks. Neither can the Chapter Masters (T5 for one, Eternal Warrior for the other).

Now I'm not saying that the spyderstar wouldn't work against the Centurionstar. IMO, I just think that wraithwing Necrons actually match up better against the Centurionstar, but this is just my cursory impressions without any playtesting of the spyderstar yet.

Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

And youre right that pure wraithwing without spyders/scarabs is more effective against centurionstar.

Don't have my book right now, but isn't ID still resolved against the enemy's Toughness. I thought it was the wounding that was resolved against LD, no? BTW, I don't run the D&D-crons.

Game #5 - Necrons + White Scars vs Venom-spam + FMC Tyranids

Since I was out of the running for the Singles event, I got in a couple of pickup games on Day #2 of Adepticon. First up, my roomate, Stephen "Chancetragedy" and I had a 2-vs-2 game against Frankie and Geoff from Team Zero Comp. Now a little history on our opponents. I've been playing against Frankie "The World's Greatest 40K Player" forever. In our games, either I have the best of luck against him (and him the worst of luck against me) or my lists just dominate his. For whatever reason, Frankie has yet to beat me one-on-one. He's only ever beaten me once. Ironically, that was the first time I ever faced him and it was also a 2-v-2 game between me and SabrX against Frankie and Reece:

2v2 2K per player - Ravenguards + Witch Hunters vs Space Wolves

So fast forward a few years into the future. Now, we are going 2-vs-2 once again and this will be the 1st time I am playing against Frankie and Geoff together. Hmmmm....could this be deja vu? As for Geoff, Geoff is a Starcraft stud (and former "professional" Starcraft player and celeb) who just started playing 40K recently. However, his bugs are not to be taken lightly. I've only played against Geoff once so far. He was my Wraithwing Necron's first loss ever in 6th Edition:

Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep #216 Skyblight Tyranids vs Cron Air

As for my partner, Stephen, he is also my roommate for this trip. Stephen is more of a casual-competitive player. He actually runs pretty strong tournament lists, though from what he's told me, hasn't had too much success at the larger GT's. All 3 of us - me, Frankie and Geoff - are running our Adepticon 1850 lists. Stephen is actually running something different. For the tournament, he ran beaststar Deldar. For our 2-on-2, he's running White Scars.

Anyways, without further ado, our lists.


Team Roommates

1850 Jy2's Wraithwing Necrons

Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb
Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs

5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

5x Canoptek Wraiths
5x Canoptek Wraiths
5x Canoptek Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge



1850 Chancetragedy's White Scars

This is an approximation of his list. Stephen, if you read this, feel free to update this thread with your actual list.


Khan - Moondrakken
Chapter Master - 2+, Bike, Shield Eternal, Thunderhammer

8x Bikers - 2x Gravguns, Attack Bike w/Multi-melta, Combi-grav
8x Bikers - 2x Gravguns, Attack Bike w/Multi-melta
8x Bikers - 2x Gravguns, Attack Bike w/Multi-melta

Stormtalon - Skyhammer
Stormtalon - Skyhammer

Thunderfire Cannon
Thunderfire Cannon

Allies:

Space Wolf Rune Priest - 2+, Bike, Jaws + another power

5x Grey Hunters - Flamer



----------------------------------- Versus -----------------------------------



Team Zero Comp

1850 Frankie's Venom-spam Deldar

Vect
Haemonculus - Hexrifle, Crucible of Malediction

5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Night Shields & Grisley Trophies
5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Night Shields
5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Night Shields
5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Night Shields
5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Night Shields

Ravager - Dark Lances, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers
Ravager - Dark Lances, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers
Ravager - Dark Lances, Night Shields, Torment Grenade Launchers

Allies:

Farseer - Jetbike

20x Guardians - 2x Brightlances

Wraithknight



1850 Geoff's Tyranid Air Force

This is an approximation of his list.


Flyrant - 2x Dakkas
Flyrant - 2x Dakkas

Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Tervigon
30x Termagants

Hive Crone
Hive Crone
Hive Crone

Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyrannofex


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Missions:

Adepticon uses only Primary and Secondary objectives. The Primary Objectives always consists of 2 missions. It's actually quite simple. If you get more Primary Objectives than your opponent, you earn a Crushing Victory. Otherwise, if the Primary is tied, then you go on to the Secondaries. The Secondaries consist of First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord. If you tie on the Primary and win via Secondaries, then it is a Minor Victory.


Primary Objectives:

1. Victory Points

2. The Scouring - Fast Attacks are scoring. However, if you kill a Heavy, then it counts as 2 VP's for Primary Objective #1 instead. 5 Objectives total.

Honestly, I don't quite remember exactly whether we played the Adepticon missions or a LVO mission. But regardless, it was VP's and the Scouring.


Secondary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord


Deployment: Dawn of War


1st Turn: Team Roommates


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pre-game Thoughts:

I'll say this plainly. Whoever is going first has a huge advantage. We both have super-shooty armies. We both have devastating alpha-strike potential. Now it's a matter of whoever can strike the first crippling blow. Honestly, even though Team Roommates (that's us) are going first, I really don't know if that is a good thing. Because of Vect's ability to steal the initiative on a 4+, there's a 50/50 chance of us getting caught "with our pants down." It almost makes me want to go 2nd. At least that way, we could brace for their alpha-strike by counter-deploying. We would also get the final say on objectives.

With regards to Victory Points, I think we have a slight advantage. Frankie's army just bleeds kill points (VP's). However, they've got enough skyfire (FMC's) to down my fliers and my partner will be combat-squadding so VP's might actually be close.

With regards to objectives. We both have a lot of troops. Frankie's troops outnumber mine. However, as it is the Scouring, my wraiths will be scoring. And while Geoff only has 2 scoring units, he can pump out more with his tervigon and 3 of his FMC's will be scoring as well. As for my teammate Stephen, I believe he's got 9 scoring units after combat squadding (that's including his 2 stormravens).

Our strategy is this. With his Scout moves, the White Scars will form the vanguard of our assault. My wraiths would then be the 2nd wave as well as counter-assault punch. We dare them to assault our bikers backed by my wraiths. Meanwhile, I plan to focus down on the Dark Eldar with our shooting. Gravguns go after MC's. Everything else after the DE skimmers. Oh, and thunderfires will pick out those annoying venomthropes, after which they will focus on trying to double-out Vect.

But all that depends on if we really get to go first or not. If we do, Team Zero Comp will be in trouble. If they steal, we're going to be in deep sh*t. Right now, I'd say the game is a 50/50. Anyone can take it.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Turn 1




Turn 2




Turn 3




Turn 4




Turn 5

 jy2 wrote:


Don't have my book right now, but isn't ID still resolved against the enemy's Toughness. I thought it was the wounding that was resolved against LD, no? BTW, I don't run the D&D-crons.

They FAQ'd the staff.

Q: When using an abyssalstaf , do you use the target’s Toughness or
Leadership for the purposes of working out if Instant Death applies?
(p84)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the match, I like that you and Chance have the first turn. I think that gives you a fair edge.

Lets scout do its job and get some early hits. Should give you guys FB for sure. The nids won't be in the air or rolling powers yet..ABS getting up in the mix fast, put down the ravs and crones and the ABs run free rest of the game....

My prediction... crushing victory for WW/WS

I will say running beast star at the championships was such a big mistake I feel like if I had taken my bikes I go 2-2 at worst. I would say I lean more toward the competitive side of things but I'm also not gonna let losing ruin my good time.

As to my list Jy2 that's close as in the parts are all there just organized a little a little different. The biker troops squads are all 8man +attk bike with 2 grav each and then they just combat squad.

And say what?!? The rune priest can take another power besides jaws? ;p. anyways he always takes living lightning as the non jaws power. Also the grey hunters have a flamer.

Edit: actual list cause I'm bored a work

Chapter master - bike, hammer, Winshield, artificer
Khan - moonbike
Rune priest - runic armor, bike
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav, combi grav
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav
5grey hunters - flamer
2xstorm talon - skyhammers
2xTFC

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:

Spyderstar is best supplemented with plenty of Scarabs. Wraiths are not necessary in my opinion. Of course scarab farm is considered passé now.

Normally, that would be true. I even thought that the first time I heard about the spyderstar, but after examining the list more carefully, I can see it functioning just as well without the scarabs if used in "deathstar-threat-overload" mode.

Here's how it would work. Spyders hide 1st turn. Then on Turn 2, they teleport into the enemy backfield. Then on your opponent's turn, when his reserves come in, you bring in your reserves as well via Zandrekh's Phased Reinforcements. Deepstrike both of your wraiths and your night scythes will come in as well. All of a sudden, it's not just the spyderstar they have to deal with. It's the spyderstar and 2 units of wraiths in their backfield, all of your flyers and your AB's as well. Basically, all of a sudden, your opponent has to deal with your entire army in their face and all at once!

 SwistakCZC wrote:

Spoiler:

 jy2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

I guess you are thinking Spyder Star would try to tackle Centstars or other Deathstars head on. I don't think that's necessarily the approach. The gutshot to pull off is to deploy a Deathmark(x5) and Despairtek(x2) killteam via Nightscythe 1" away from the Centstar, to punish the opponent from putting so many points into a single unit. Running Obyron means you can take a guerilla rather than head-on approach and keep your own Deathstar safe via teleport, even teleporting directly out of combat. Running Nemesor means you can get that Nightscythe anytime enemy reserves come on. What stops a Death and Despairtek team from wiping a good chunk of the Centstar and otherwise being a solid tool in such a Deathstar heavy field?

I will admit that my experience with the spyderstar is somewhat limited. From what I've seen so far, most spyderstar players are running something like this:

Zandrehk
Obyron
Destroyer Lord

Troops in Night Scythes

2x6 Wraiths

2x Annihilation Barges
3x Spyders


Spyderstar would teleport near the enemy to soak up their firepower whereas the wraiths advance to help out (or they deepstrike in on the opponent's turn). This tactic won't work against the Centurionstar as the spyders would only get shot to heck. Then the Centurionstar is only dealing with 2 units of wraiths instead of 2 units of wraiths + 2 Destroyer Lords.

Of course other spyderstar builds could exist. But in any case, if I was playing the Centurionstar against the spyderstar, I would keep all my units close to the Centurionstar. Thus, even if the spyderstar was to try to go after my other units (a la guerilla tactics), they'd most likely have to move into the potential 30" threat range of the Centurions.

D&D (Death & Despair) crons can potentially hurt the Centurionstar, but they won't be able to cripple them, even if you run 2 units. The Centstar can minimize the damage as long as they spread out and put those 2+/3++ Chapter Masters at the ends (were the enemy is most likely coming), they should take a couple of wounds at most. And in the case they get Forewarning (like they did in my game), damage can even be limited furthermore. Keep in mind that the centurions are T5 with 2W each and can't be insta-killed by the Despair-teks. Neither can the Chapter Masters (T5 for one, Eternal Warrior for the other).

Now I'm not saying that the spyderstar wouldn't work against the Centurionstar. IMO, I just think that wraithwing Necrons actually match up better against the Centurionstar, but this is just my cursory impressions without any playtesting of the spyderstar yet.

Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

And youre right that pure wraithwing without spyders/scarabs is more effective against centurionstar.

Don't have my book right now, but isn't ID still resolved against the enemy's Toughness. I thought it was the wounding that was resolved against LD, no? BTW, I don't run the D&D-crons.

Scarabs are so good for the points. I can't see SpyderStar doing as well overall as Scarab Farming. Plus all the Scarabs you generate are free points and it can get really crazy. Certainly it's RPS but that's true of most every meta net list you see now.

My prediction is Team Zero Comp wins.

I think Team 0Comp has this. A ton of FMC's, and enough shooting to kill every biker turn 1. If Chance scouts he loses all his bikes. Tentaclids will also be handy for dropping AB's. The Wraiths might a problem unless the Farseer can land Misfortune, or the Guardian blob is left alone, they could seriously cripple a wraith squad.

The FMC's are going to hurt...

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

I'm curious what your list is with triple D&D squads. I really like that squad / combo, but I just haven't been able to come up with a list that utilizes them effectively.

TehCheator wrote:

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

I'm curious what your list is with triple D&D squads. I really like that squad / combo, but I just haven't been able to come up with a list that utilizes them effectively.

Yup, I really like the combo and models too. So my list is in fact scythe spam, but D&D squads are truly engine of this list. After a lot of evolutions I created list like this for 1850pts:

2 OL (both 2+, one with warscythe and mss)
6 Flamers
3 Haywires

3 Deathmarks in Scythes
1 Gauss Immortals in Scythe
3 Warriors in Scythes

Bastion, comms

In defiance of common beliefs its very versatile. Can play almost everything in todays meta. I tried also to combine av13 spam (ccb, 3xab, 2xga) with double deathmarks squads and it had also done well.

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Yup, I really like the combo and models too. So my list is in fact scythe spam, but D&D squads are truly engine of this list. After a lot of evolutions I created list like this for 1850pts:

2 OL (both 2+, one with warscythe and mss)
6 Flamers
3 Haywires

3 Deathmarks in Scythes
1 Gauss Immortals in Scythe
3 Warriors in Scythes

Bastion, comms

In defiance of common beliefs its very versatile. Can play almost everything in todays meta. I tried also to combine av13 spam (ccb, 3xab, 2xga) with double deathmarks squads and it had also done well.

Interesting, I'm going to have to play around with something like this. I've been considering more of a Flying Circus / Scythe Spam build for a while, just to change it up, and I really like the idea of having 3x D&D squads (3x Marks and the ability to slap 6 super flamers down on one squad just sounds mean.

Pre-game Thoughts:

I'll say this plainly. Whoever is going first has a huge advantage. We both have super-shooty armies. We both have devastating alpha-strike potential. Now it's a matter of whoever can strike the first crippling blow. Honestly, even though Team Roommates (that's us) are going first, I really don't know if that is a good thing. Because of Vect's ability to steal the initiative on a 4+, there's a 50/50 chance of us getting caught "with our pants down." It almost makes me want to go 2nd. At least that way, we could brace for their alpha-strike by counter-deploying. We would also get the final say on objectives.

With regards to Victory Points, I think we have a slight advantage. Frankie's army just bleeds kill points (VP's). However, they've got enough skyfire (FMC's) to down my fliers and my partner will be combat-squadding so VP's might actually be close.

With regards to objectives. We both have a lot of troops. Frankie's troops outnumber mine. However, as it is the Scouring, my wraiths will be scoring. And while Geoff only has 2 scoring units, he can pump out more with his tervigon and 3 of his FMC's will be scoring as well. As for my teammate Stephen, I believe he's got 9 scoring units after combat squadding (that's including his 2 stormravens).

Our strategy is this. With his Scout moves, the White Scars will form the vanguard of our assault. My wraiths would then be the 2nd wave as well as counter-assault punch. We dare them to assault our bikers backed by my wraiths. Meanwhile, I plan to focus down on the Dark Eldar with our shooting. Gravguns go after MC's. Everything else after the DE skimmers. Oh, and thunderfires will pick out those annoying venomthropes, after which they will focus on trying to double-out Vect.

But all that depends on if we really get to go first or not. If we do, Team Zero Comp will be in trouble. If they steal, we're going to be in deep sh*t. Right now, I'd say the game is a 50/50. Anyone can take it.


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Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Roci wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Don't have my book right now, but isn't ID still resolved against the enemy's Toughness. I thought it was the wounding that was resolved against LD, no? BTW, I don't run the D&D-crons.

They FAQ'd the staff.

Q: When using an abyssalstaf , do you use the target’s Toughness or
Leadership for the purposes of working out if Instant Death applies?
(p84)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the match, I like that you and Chance have the first turn. I think that gives you a fair edge.

Lets scout do its job and get some early hits. Should give you guys FB for sure. The nids won't be in the air or rolling powers yet..ABS getting up in the mix fast, put down the ravs and crones and the ABs run free rest of the game....

My prediction... crushing victory for WW/WS

Cool. Glad that it's been FAQ'd. Like I said, I don't normally play the D&D-crons.

Chancetragedy wrote:
I will say running beast star at the championships was such a big mistake I feel like if I had taken my bikes I go 2-2 at worst. I would say I lean more toward the competitive side of things but I'm also not gonna let losing ruin my good time.

As to my list Jy2 that's close as in the parts are all there just organized a little a little different. The biker troops squads are all 8man +attk bike with 2 grav each and then they just combat squad.

And say what?!? The rune priest can take another power besides jaws? ;p. anyways he always takes living lightning as the non jaws power. Also the grey hunters have a flamer.

Edit: actual list cause I'm bored a work

Chapter master - bike, hammer, Winshield, artificer
Khan - moonbike
Rune priest - runic armor, bike
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav, combi grav
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav
8 bikers - mm attk bike, 2 grav
5grey hunters - flamer
2xstorm talon - skyhammers
2xTFC

Thanks Stephen. I'll update your list.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

Scarabs are so good for the points. I can't see SpyderStar doing as well overall as Scarab Farming. Plus all the Scarabs you generate are free points and it can get really crazy. Certainly it's RPS but that's true of most every meta net list you see now.

My prediction is Team Zero Comp wins.

Combining both the spyderstar and scarabfarm will definitely make for an interesting build. I may have to try that one of these days.

jathomas2013 wrote:
I think Team 0Comp has this. A ton of FMC's, and enough shooting to kill every biker turn 1. If Chance scouts he loses all his bikes. Tentaclids will also be handy for dropping AB's. The Wraiths might a problem unless the Farseer can land Misfortune, or the Guardian blob is left alone, they could seriously cripple a wraith squad.

The FMC's are going to hurt...

Actually, Frankie did get Misfortune.

 SwistakCZC wrote:

TehCheator wrote:

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Abyssal Staff aint working like that. You resolve ID against target LD value (cf. Necron FAQ) Im running now triple death&despair squads in scythes nowadays so im pretty well informed Moreover in todays meta this list with marks is very well and can play against most enemies, including deathstars, taudar-porn (possible draw, but still better than wraithwing) and so on. I woulndt try to kill this deathstar with them, probably I would try to avoid them and kill troops, if you have 6 abyssal staffs with triple deathmarks and 7 night scythes it is very easy to acheive.

I'm curious what your list is with triple D&D squads. I really like that squad / combo, but I just haven't been able to come up with a list that utilizes them effectively.

Yup, I really like the combo and models too. So my list is in fact scythe spam, but D&D squads are truly engine of this list. After a lot of evolutions I created list like this for 1850pts:

2 OL (both 2+, one with warscythe and mss)
6 Flamers
3 Haywires

3 Deathmarks in Scythes
1 Gauss Immortals in Scythe
3 Warriors in Scythes

Bastion, comms

In defiance of common beliefs its very versatile. Can play almost everything in todays meta. I tried also to combine av13 spam (ccb, 3xab, 2xga) with double deathmarks squads and it had also done well.

Interesting build. I am of the philosophy that you need durable units on the ground, but I can definitely see this army doing well.

It's just hard to give up on the 3 annihilation barges.

TehCheator wrote:
Interesting, I'm going to have to play around with something like this. I've been considering more of a Flying Circus / Scythe Spam build for a while, just to change it up, and I really like the idea of having 3x D&D squads (3x Marks and the ability to slap 6 super flamers down on one squad just sounds mean.

If you play list approximately like this you could pm me and write how it goes, its always favourable to exchange outlook

 jy2 wrote:
Interesting build. I am of the philosophy that you need durable units on the ground, but I can definitely see this army doing well.

It's just hard to give up on the 3 annihilation barges.

Yeah you've hitted home, its not easy to give up those little beatuies. Thats why I tried to combined Av13 spam with 2 deathmark units. Pure aircraft list is also some inconvenience due to unhandy maneuverability. I dont have any tough ground units but with bastion and OL behind it (and possibility to have some additional units on the table), its easy to survive first turn and then you start to rock. In this list its good that you play not only with flyers but also with units embarked in (with powerful firepower), but truly it is hard to name those suicides durable units.


Game against 0comp seems difficult for you guys. I hope that batrep gonna be positive for you

And regarding game vs centurionstar, damn it was very hard for you Jy. Those gravs backed up with misfortune was so devastating... overall its sad that everything was against you in this game. It was even hard to hide in reserves and out of his range in order to attack later his weaker spots to score some easy kill points, beacause there was objectives and his deathstar was actually scoring. It was probably the best thing you could undertake.

But I dont feel this centstar, I think it is weak against any horde army and daemons. They can fight daemons back in hth, but generally I think such game is not so easy for this particular sm. Centstar has also some problems with mobility, gate is not perfect. Infiltration is whole lot better for them

ect attempts to steal and I start to sweat a little. Needing a 4+ to steal, Frankie then rolls and....

The suspense is killing me haha. Your batreps are awesome Jy2. They read like a wicked picture book.

 jy2 wrote:


Ok, now for the make-it-or-break-it moment.


Vect attempts to steal and I start to sweat a little. Needing a 4+ to steal, Frankie then rolls and....


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh I hate and love you at the same time Jy2...

Turn 2 up.


I will be updating the report throughout the day. It should be completed by tonight.

That was a brutal turn, for both sides.

Yah until stuff really gets thinned out we were basically playing with 7200 points so stuff died hard and heavy till the end ;p

I cant wait until you go up against Justin Cook!!

2v2 battle report completed.

Blood bath !

Dozer Blades beat me to it, a blood bath indeed! Great report as always.

 SwistakCZC wrote:

And regarding game vs centurionstar, damn it was very hard for you Jy. Those gravs backed up with misfortune was so devastating... overall its sad that everything was against you in this game. It was even hard to hide in reserves and out of his range in order to attack later his weaker spots to score some easy kill points, beacause there was objectives and his deathstar was actually scoring. It was probably the best thing you could undertake.

But I dont feel this centstar, I think it is weak against any horde army and daemons. They can fight daemons back in hth, but generally I think such game is not so easy for this particular sm. Centstar has also some problems with mobility, gate is not perfect. Infiltration is whole lot better for them

Thanks.

The Centstar isn't easy to play. But I feel that one of its advantages is that it is easily under-estimated. Though I felt that my Necrons actually matched up well against it, Tim is a really, really good player and he plays the Centurionstar extremely well.

Just to give you an idea of some of the competition he has had to go through, these were his matchups at the Torrent of Fire Invitational.

1st Rd - beat Geoff "InControl's" FMC-spam Tyranids.

2nd Rd - beat Nick Nanavati's Plaguestar Soulgrinder Daemons. BTW, as most of you know, Nick ended up winning Adepticon this year. Actually, he's won it 2 years in a row.

3rd Rd - beat Matt Schuchmann's Seer Council Eldau (yes, that's Eldar and Tau!). Matt ended up 3rd overall at the ToF Invitational. He also made it to the Top16 at this Adepticon.

4th Rd - beat John Parson's (I believe krootman here on dakka) FMC-spam Daemons w/Black Mace DP/helturkey ally.

5th Rd - beat Matt DeFranza's Seer Council Deldar to win the ToF Invitational.

6th Rd - beat me here at Adepticon. Lol. Ok, so not really a ToF game, but it shows the extent of some of the top players and armies Tim has beaten with his list.

Chancetragedy wrote:
Yah until stuff really gets thinned out we were basically playing with 7200 points so stuff died hard and heavy till the end ;p

Actually, 7400-pts.

Yeah, with all that firepower on the table, units disappear at an alarming rate. Turn 2 was just incredible for both teams.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I cant wait until you go up against Justin Cook!!

Coming up next!

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Blood bath !

 guardpiper wrote:
Dozer Blades beat me to it, a blood bath indeed! Great report as always.

Oh yeah! We both didn't really have much left at the end of the game. The survivors:


Me
Warlord Destroyer Lord
4 troops
1 Annihilation Barge


Stephen
2 Thunderfires
A handful of troops in several different units


Frankie
Vect (Warlord)
Farseer
2 units of troops, each with just 2 guys left
2 Ravagers, 1 badly damaged
Wraithknight


Geoff
1 Venomthrope
1 Exocrine

These are always the best games by far !

This 2v2 game was truly bloodbath, its really a lot of stuff on table on one time, interesting battle.

 jy2 wrote:

The Centstar isn't easy to play. But I feel that one of its advantages is that it is easily under-estimated. Though I felt that my Necrons actually matched up well against it, Tim is a really, really good player and he plays the Centurionstar extremely well.

1st Rd - beat Geoff "InControl's" FMC-spam Tyranids.

2nd Rd - beat Nick Nanavati's Plaguestar Soulgrinder Daemons. BTW, as most of you know, Nick ended up winning Adepticon this year.

3rd Rd - beat Matt Schuchmann's Seer Council Eldau (yes, that's Eldar and Tau!). Matt ended up 3rd overall at the ToF Invitational. He also made it to the Top16 at this Adepticon.

4th Rd - beat John Parson's (I believe krootman here on dakka) FMC-spam Daemons w/Black Mace DP/helturkey ally.

5th Rd - beat Matt DeFranza's Seer Council Deldar to win the ToF Invitational.

6th Rd - beat me here at Adepticon. Lol. Ok, so not really a ToF game, but it shows the extent of some of the top players and armies Tim has beaten with his list.

Thanks a lot for info! I have to admit that Im interested in centurionstar and Im gonna build my own list with co-starring Centurions and check them out. I like lists that are not obvious, I belive that the key to beat top players is to suprise them, its a way harder to achieve with typical list.

I know Eldau Council, its still very powerful build even excluding Baron, still can have some h&r via Tau Commander.

So thats a lot of lists that was beaten with this particular cenurionstar, pretty impressive how many good players didint manage to win with Tim. I think it would be hard for Tim's centstar to fight screamerstars backed up with hounds without h&r and virtually any decent dakka (screamstars are very popular in my country) as well as DE venom spam very good in todays meta (DE are too mobile, with NS not easy to catch with gravs and able to put down everything except deathstar), but its obvious that every list have some difficulty from time to time, no matter how strong build it is.

So if you guys are ready to see Necrons kick the snot out of some Tau, give me a HELL YEAH!

Blue fish people vs metal space shrimp? HELL YEAH!