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 Formosa wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
The tau also chemically castrate (or at least in other editions) those that join their Empire. Nor can an auxiliary ever attain a high rank, so much for the Greater Good and everyone working together. They are almost more fascist species in the galaxy, again looking through 6e codex I see their darker elements have been removed, which further distances them from the rest of the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

First one, not true. The only evidence of that is the DOW dark crusade, which is dubious at best. Auxiliaries can achieve a high rank, it's just that the tau are the "first among equals" That means that they will still receive respect ect, it's just that two people of equal rank, and one is a tau, than the tau is higher.

You may not like it but the first one is true as Dow is cannon, just not that ending, it just shows the lengths the tau are willing to go to if they feel it's the greater good

As I said, dubious canon. These are from the same people who made khorn allied sorcerers. Is that canon, I think not. The tau ending isn't even canon because it was not the official ending. IIRC the SM won (of course ). From the canon we know that the tau not only make planets they conquer "paradises of efficiency" with cleaner air and water, we know that tau don't directly rule the planets, but they are still ruled by humans, it's just that those humans answer to the tau empire instead of the IOM.


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 AtoMaki wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

The explanation is that Tau learn a lot quicker than humans or Eldar. Everything a Tau scientist or engineer does, he does in a lifespan of 50 years. Meanwhile, humans who live twice that long or Eldar who literally live forever still haven't made a reliable, easy-to-use, mass-producible, powerful infantry weapon for their armies.

Tau are used to thinking outside of the box. Humans aren't. Eldar may not be capable of doing so. If they were, the galaxy would be a lot different by now.

Actually, the advantage of the Tau is their tight cooperation and not their learning rate. No Tau scientist or engineer will develop anything in his lifetime, he will only add something to an already existing project or he will lay the groundwork for a new thing but he probably won't see his idea going into the development phase. It is like building a house: the scientists of the longer living races would do it alone, because they have time; the Tau, on the other hand, would build it piece-by-peace through several (quickly changing) generations. This method has the advantage of being highly diversified as each generation has something new to add into the original concept so obstacles in the development won't stand for very long.

It isn't that the Tau is better at thinking outside of the box. But each time a scientist dies with his unfinished project, a new scientist will bring a new box.

Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
From the canon we know that the tau not only make planets they conquer "paradises of efficiency" with cleaner air and water, we know that tau don't directly rule the planets, but they are still ruled by humans, it's just that those humans answer to the tau empire instead of the IOM.

Source?

Tau rule the planets they own without a doubt.
"Paradieses" are just thier NK style propaganda.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

No, the time the Tau got is pretty consistantly said to be less than other races.
They put their "heros" into a freezer to keep em around. Etherals live longer than lesser Tau. Since we don't know who created them it is impossible to know if their life expectancy isn't altered on purpose.

 1hadhq wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
From the canon we know that the tau not only make planets they conquer "paradises of efficiency" with cleaner air and water, we know that tau don't directly rule the planets, but they are still ruled by humans, it's just that those humans answer to the tau empire instead of the IOM.

Source?

Tau rule the planets they own without a doubt.
"Paradieses" are just thier NK style propaganda.

Tau codex. If that's not canon, I don't know what is.

 1hadhq wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

No, the time the Tau got is pretty consistantly said to be less than other races.
They put their "heros" into a freezer to keep em around. Etherals live longer than lesser Tau. Since we don't know who created them it is impossible to know if their life expectancy isn't altered on purpose.

I have seen only one time this has been said, an old WD. Puretide lived until 80, and they didn't have stasis back then. Now that is an extreme case (like a human living until 120), but that means that tau can probably live between 50-70 years. Now I could be wrong, but they are also mentioan in an old tau codex hat they sleep a lot less and "maintain their youthful vigor" throughout their life.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

Well, they can't even get Shadowsun's super-stealth suit right and they are on it for something like 25+ years.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
From the canon we know that the tau not only make planets they conquer "paradises of efficiency" with cleaner air and water, we know that tau don't directly rule the planets, but they are still ruled by humans, it's just that those humans answer to the tau empire instead of the IOM.

Source?

Tau rule the planets they own without a doubt.
"Paradieses" are just thier NK style propaganda.

Tau codex. If that's not canon, I don't know what is.

There is no canon in 40k. Only legends, rumours, propaganda and half-myths.

True, but I like debates .


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 AtoMaki wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

Well, they can't even get Shadowsun's super-stealth suit right and they are on it for something like 25+ years.

Huh?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
True, but I like debates .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

Well, they can't even get Shadowsun's super-stealth suit right and they are on it for something like 25+ years.

Huh?

They gave Shadowsun her experimental stealth suit shorty after she was waken from cryostatis. And that happened 25 years ago (in 975.M41, on the onset of the Confederation War), and since they gave her a full, working suit, they had probably worked on it for some time.

Also more idiocy... Longstrike taking out a Warhound titan with a railgun? Really now?

Least he,s not winning one on one fights with a emparor class dodging plasma bursts that could melt a titan in two, as Vulcan mega bolters tear the ground apart behind him.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Also more idiocy... Longstrike taking out a Warhound titan with a railgun? Really now?

This is somehow more ridiculous than a warboss on a god-damn bike one-shotting a much larger titan?

In the words of the codex "a headshot on a mighty warhound titan" and he apparently took out entire advancing columns of imperial armor. But shockingly enough other Tau actually died in this blurb of fluff.

Not that GW would ever advance the story but I get the feeling the Tau are meant to be the race next to take up the mantle of owners of the Galaxy, they are just starting out but as humanity and the other xenos races fall the Tau will just keep advancing.

Remember the Imperium is in it's dying days, relying on millenia old tech they can no longer repair to keep going, Tau are young and improving all the time, imagine their suits/weapons etc in another 1000 years...

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
The tau also chemically castrate (or at least in other editions) those that join their Empire. Nor can an auxiliary ever attain a high rank, so much for the Greater Good and everyone working together. They are almost more fascist species in the galaxy, again looking through 6e codex I see their darker elements have been removed, which further distances them from the rest of the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

First one, not true. The only evidence of that is the DOW dark crusade, which is dubious at best. Auxiliaries can achieve a high rank, it's just that the tau are the "first among equals" That means that they will still receive respect ect, it's just that two people of equal rank, and one is a tau, than the tau is higher.

You may not like it but the first one is true as Dow is cannon, just not that ending, it just shows the lengths the tau are willing to go to if they feel it's the greater good

As I said, dubious canon. These are from the same people who made khorn allied sorcerers. Is that canon, I think not. The tau ending isn't even canon because it was not the official ending. IIRC the SM won (of course ). From the canon we know that the tau not only make planets they conquer "paradises of efficiency" with cleaner air and water, we know that tau don't directly rule the planets, but they are still ruled by humans, it's just that those humans answer to the tau empire instead of the IOM.


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 AtoMaki wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

The explanation is that Tau learn a lot quicker than humans or Eldar. Everything a Tau scientist or engineer does, he does in a lifespan of 50 years. Meanwhile, humans who live twice that long or Eldar who literally live forever still haven't made a reliable, easy-to-use, mass-producible, powerful infantry weapon for their armies.

Tau are used to thinking outside of the box. Humans aren't. Eldar may not be capable of doing so. If they were, the galaxy would be a lot different by now.

Actually, the advantage of the Tau is their tight cooperation and not their learning rate. No Tau scientist or engineer will develop anything in his lifetime, he will only add something to an already existing project or he will lay the groundwork for a new thing but he probably won't see his idea going into the development phase. It is like building a house: the scientists of the longer living races would do it alone, because they have time; the Tau, on the other hand, would build it piece-by-peace through several (quickly changing) generations. This method has the advantage of being highly diversified as each generation has something new to add into the original concept so obstacles in the development won't stand for very long.

It isn't that the Tau is better at thinking outside of the box. But each time a scientist dies with his unfinished project, a new scientist will bring a new box.

Even if they only live 40 years (which is complete nonsense BTW, considering they have been shown to live to 80, and over if we are talking about ethereals) that's still plenty of time to finish a project, especially since you would have a entire team working on it.

You know khorne affiliated sorcerers exist right? That's something that I should put in the fluff misconceptions thread, khorne sorcerers do exist, khorne hates sorcery and magic, but cares not from where the blood flows.

There are a myriad ways the Imperium could still survive just as much as it could die. But we've been at 999.M41 for years and that is not going to change any time soon.

As for the Ork statement it is rather stupid about such things as well. But there is no consistency in the fluff and writers just do what they want. Which is detrimental to the setting as well. Back flipping terminators and other non-sense. But for all of that the other sides still lose, and lose a lot. No major losses or defeats for the perfect Tau empire. Riptides able to kill multiple baneblades without damage. Able to jump over the walls of a Hive-City. They should really stop writing the Tau as a masturbatory fan-fiction.

 throwoff wrote:
Not that GW would ever advance the story but I get the feeling the Tau are meant to be the race next to take up the mantle of owners of the Galaxy, they are just starting out but as humanity and the other xenos races fall the Tau will just keep advancing.

Remember the Imperium is in it's dying days, relying on millenia old tech they can no longer repair to keep going, Tau are young and improving all the time, imagine their suits/weapons etc in another 1000 years...

Imagine the 1000 Regiments that were just mobilized per Codex Astra Militarum to end the xeno menace.
Suits? They better wear their best for their funeral.

I think should that situation arise the Ethereals would let slip another one of their powers (it is clear they are far more potent than the Tau citizens realise) and before you know it an X208 suit standing the size of a battleship and armed with a pulse mega cannon able to destroy a small star system would grace the battlefield

Now, I have this thing with the Tau. If you want to avoid what is possibly a contentious post - please skip this one.


Many of the original factions and ideas in the 40K universe were based on a series of comics from the 2000AD series. The original game designers were comic book readers and Bryan Ansell came up with the skirmish game 'Laser Burn' (the rule set) with the 40K universe and fluff being built up around it using the awesome ideas being churned out at the time by those chaps at 2000AD.

The Inquisition, the Space marines, Chaos and filthy xenos, they all fit the setting in what was a grim, miserable dystopian future which was a bit OTT. But it was this OTT theme that gave the game its charm.


Enter the Tau.

The Tau were a new addition which lacked the heritage of the previous races. In short they are serious and based on a serious concept (That of an Orwellian dystopian society). For many players though - particularly younger ones, the nuances of this are lost and so they just appear to be super-awesome good guys.

The Tau appeal to those who like Japanese artwork, but more than that, they appeal to those neurotic players who must have everything *just so*. I don't know how to explain this succinctly so I will try with the following:

Players who like to be the good guy - the hero
Players who MUST have everything perfectly identical and operating in even numbers.
Players who want to be the technological best and newest, because they want to be the best in every aspect (with regard to power and intelligence - superiority from a distance, don't even let them get close, bit of a playground mentality there for our fledgeling gamer)

Now, I say this because I see many of the gamers are of that mentility, and it works for them. Heck, I WAS one of them - I used to have to have EVERYTHING perfectly lined up, painted identically and in even ranks and files. If one was to die and take the squad to an uneven number, I would feel uncomfortable and not be happy until another died to make the squad even again - but then I would be disappointed that any had died at all. I see many Tau players now and they are much the same. Compare that to an Ork player where individuality is the golden mean, where everything is random and ramshackle and random is the flavour and you realise that the Tau cannot be allowed to lose - as that is one of the aspects that make them popular for many gamers.


As for me now, it's all about Chaos. The moment I started mis-matching my socks was the day I learned to embrace other armies.

1. Herosim is subjective. One persons hero is another persons villain.

2. Makes no sense. At all. Including the last paragraph.

3. Their technology is new, not the best. For perfect technology look at the Eldar and the Necrons. Eldar reached a point where they have cornucopia technology, able to terraform worlds and other wonders. Necrons are so advanced their technology appears like magic.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Is their plot armor ever explained why they beat every enemy without practically trying that would give other races pause?

A hive fleet invaded Iyanden, the Eldar are millions of years old with technology far out performing anything of the younger races and the hive fleet all but gutted that craftworld.

Iyanden was hit with at least a third to a half of hive fleet Kraken, a force so huge that even with Eldar FTL there was no way to get Iyanden out of the way of the fleet or it's net of warp shadowing by the time Kraken's target was determined.

Gorgon is about the size of a medium-large tendril of Kraken or Leviathan.

Had the Tau faced the Tyranids who attacked Iyanden the Zone of silence would be much bigger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I suppose you've never heard of the harvesting of Ka'mais(sp?)?

The Tyranids were hours away from destroying Ka'mais. Then, the Necron Tomb World on Ka'mais' moon awakened, and proceeded to rout the Tyranids.

Ka'mais set up an elaborate and bombastic welcoming party for their rescuers before the Necrons made planetfall.

The Necrons proceeded to kill every single Tau on Ka'mais.

The best part is that the Necrons let the party go on for a few days as per the timeline before deciding to kill everyone.

Epic

Trolling.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Also more idiocy... Longstrike taking out a Warhound titan with a railgun? Really now?

This is somehow more ridiculous than a warboss on a god-damn bike one-shotting a much larger titan?

That, and rules wise, he could do it if it's void sheilds were down. Rail guns are freakishly powerful, in the fluff and in the rules. A railgun could definitly take down a small titain such as a warhound if it's sheilds were down.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Also more idiocy... Longstrike taking out a Warhound titan with a railgun? Really now?

This is somehow more ridiculous than a warboss on a god-damn bike one-shotting a much larger titan?

That, and rules wise, he could do it if it's void sheilds were down. Rail guns are freakishly powerful, in the fluff and in the rules. A railgun could definitly take down a small titain such as a warhound if it's sheilds were down.

Yeah I've seen rail guns take down titans before, so yeah it's doable.

Players who MUST have everything perfectly identical and operating in even numbers.
Players who want to be the technological best and newest, because they want to be the best in every aspect (with regard to power and intelligence - superiority from a distance, don't even let them get close, bit of a playground mentality there for our fledgeling gamer)

Back in the day, Chaos Armies had to have their troops appearing in numbers determined by the Sacred Number of their God.

So, if you were playing a Slaaneshi army, Hir number being 6, all of your units were in multiples of 6. Nurgle was 5, Khorne 8 and Tzeentch 7.

Of course, in those days, if you allied Khorne and Slaanesh, or Tzeentch and Nurgle, your army would fall upon itself in an attempt to slaughter the other half.

I will be completely honest here. I was originally attracted to Tau back at the end of 3rd edition for one reason and one reason only. They had the biggest guns.

Everything else about them I've grown to like in the ~12 years that they have been my only army. In fact I'm guessing certain aspects of my personality have actually been reinforced because of all the time I spent understanding Tau fluff throughout grade school and middle school.

Despite all the other things I have grown to like about them, I still continue to play Tau for one reason and one reason only. They still have the biggest guns.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Sometimes I wish the setting wasn't so grim dark and actually give humanity a chance there would be no contest.

I feel this mindset is misguided. As bad as the situation may seem for humans, their situation can change faster than any other faction. Think about some possibilities.

The obvious--- Return of one or more Primarchs. The Lion is the most likely, then probably the Khan and the Wolf. Think about what a game changer that is. Huge. Could happen at any time.

Starchild cycle is legit, and Cypher accomplishes it- reincarnating the emperor while possibly destroying or badly wounding the Chaos gods.

Panacea recovered from the Dark Eldar. Huge.

Think about the impact just a single, negligble seeming intact STC discovery can have. Say for a type of high-protien grain that can grow in 10% worse conditions than the one they currently have. Or a water purifier that is 1% more efficient. Across the economies of scale of the entire Imperium the difference something small like that can make are huge.

SM boarding party on a space hulk recovers a fully functioning STC from a colony ship. There are probably actions like this taken by random marine chapters nearly every week. Eventually one of them is very likely to turn up a working STC or Iron Man or some type of schematic that changes everything.

Abaddon gets dropped by assassins. Yneed counters She Who Thirsts, permanently, a new Lord Solar is born etc etc etc

Sure Humanity is taking a beating, but in one day, everything could change. Humanity is also much more durable than some of the other factions, since there aren't obvious points of weakness, like zapping the space pope or eviscerating Abaddon or what have you.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I will be completely honest here. I was originally attracted to Tau back at the end of 3rd edition for one reason and one reason only. They had the biggest guns.

Everything else about them I've grown to like in the ~12 years that they have been my only army. In fact I'm guessing certain aspects of my personality have actually been reinforced because of all the time I spent understanding Tau fluff throughout grade school and middle school.

Despite all the other things I have grown to like about them, I still continue to play Tau for one reason and one reason only. They still have the biggest guns.

Escalation with Forge World IOM super units says hello.

 Silverthorne wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Sometimes I wish the setting wasn't so grim dark and actually give humanity a chance there would be no contest.

I feel this mindset is misguided. As bad as the situation may seem for humans, their situation can change faster than any other faction. Think about some possibilities.

The obvious--- Return of one or more Primarchs. The Lion is the most likely, then probably the Khan and the Wolf. Think about what a game changer that is. Huge. Could happen at any time.

Starchild cycle is legit, and Cypher accomplishes it- reincarnating the emperor while possibly destroying or badly wounding the Chaos gods.

Panacea recovered from the Dark Eldar. Huge.

Think about the impact just a single, negligble seeming intact STC discovery can have. Say for a type of high-protien grain that can grow in 10% worse conditions than the one they currently have. Or a water purifier that is 1% more efficient. Across the economies of scale of the entire Imperium the difference something small like that can make are huge.

SM boarding party on a space hulk recovers a fully functioning STC from a colony ship. There are probably actions like this taken by random marine chapters nearly every week. Eventually one of them is very likely to turn up a working STC or Iron Man or some type of schematic that changes everything.

Abaddon gets dropped by assassins. Yneed counters She Who Thirsts, permanently, a new Lord Solar is born etc etc etc

Sure Humanity is taking a beating, but in one day, everything could change. Humanity is also much more durable than some of the other factions, since there aren't obvious points of weakness, like zapping the space pope or eviscerating Abaddon or what have you.

True, nicely put, yes in present form its so dark goths could call it new black however one or two of those and humanity may just suvive , a primarch back would send morale up, n add a genius officer.

Stc full data base = hey guys can you say dark age of tech.

Things are grim but as gw refuse to advance, humanity is locked into said doom.

jhe90 wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Sometimes I wish the setting wasn't so grim dark and actually give humanity a chance there would be no contest.

I feel this mindset is misguided. As bad as the situation may seem for humans, their situation can change faster than any other faction. Think about some possibilities.

The obvious--- Return of one or more Primarchs. The Lion is the most likely, then probably the Khan and the Wolf. Think about what a game changer that is. Huge. Could happen at any time.

Starchild cycle is legit, and Cypher accomplishes it- reincarnating the emperor while possibly destroying or badly wounding the Chaos gods.

Panacea recovered from the Dark Eldar. Huge.

Think about the impact just a single, negligble seeming intact STC discovery can have. Say for a type of high-protien grain that can grow in 10% worse conditions than the one they currently have. Or a water purifier that is 1% more efficient. Across the economies of scale of the entire Imperium the difference something small like that can make are huge.

SM boarding party on a space hulk recovers a fully functioning STC from a colony ship. There are probably actions like this taken by random marine chapters nearly every week. Eventually one of them is very likely to turn up a working STC or Iron Man or some type of schematic that changes everything.

Abaddon gets dropped by assassins. Yneed counters She Who Thirsts, permanently, a new Lord Solar is born etc etc etc

Sure Humanity is taking a beating, but in one day, everything could change. Humanity is also much more durable than some of the other factions, since there aren't obvious points of weakness, like zapping the space pope or eviscerating Abaddon or what have you.

True, nicely put, yes in present form its so dark goths could call it new black however one or two of those and humanity may just suvive , a primarch back would send morale up, n add a genius officer.

Stc full data base = hey guys can you say dark age of tech.

Things are grim but as gw refuse to advance, humanity is locked into said doom.

If you want a story where the Imperium starts not only stopping, but throwing back all that opposes it; look up the Tales of the Emprahsque.

Fair warning, it does take in a lot of /tg/ interpretations as canon, including Love can Bloom.

 Silverthorne wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Sometimes I wish the setting wasn't so grim dark and actually give humanity a chance there would be no contest.

I feel this mindset is misguided. As bad as the situation may seem for humans, their situation can change faster than any other faction. Think about some possibilities.

The obvious--- Return of one or more Primarchs. The Lion is the most likely, then probably the Khan and the Wolf. Think about what a game changer that is. Huge. Could happen at any time.

Starchild cycle is legit, and Cypher accomplishes it- reincarnating the emperor while possibly destroying or badly wounding the Chaos gods.

Panacea recovered from the Dark Eldar. Huge.

Think about the impact just a single, negligble seeming intact STC discovery can have. Say for a type of high-protien grain that can grow in 10% worse conditions than the one they currently have. Or a water purifier that is 1% more efficient. Across the economies of scale of the entire Imperium the difference something small like that can make are huge.

SM boarding party on a space hulk recovers a fully functioning STC from a colony ship. There are probably actions like this taken by random marine chapters nearly every week. Eventually one of them is very likely to turn up a working STC or Iron Man or some type of schematic that changes everything.

Abaddon gets dropped by assassins. Yneed counters She Who Thirsts, permanently, a new Lord Solar is born etc etc etc

Sure Humanity is taking a beating, but in one day, everything could change. Humanity is also much more durable than some of the other factions, since there aren't obvious points of weakness, like zapping the space pope or eviscerating Abaddon or what have you.

Except it could just as easily go south any moment, even faster than it can go north. The Chaos Gods are not only stated to be omnipotent within the warp and are outside time, should anything somehow manage to threaten them, they have time travel and could just as easily smack down any move made against them before it was ever made (and even then, I've heard that Chaos Gods have access to other universes, so food/entertainment isn't an issue for them), there's no real move the IOM could ever make to improve their situation, even if the God Emperor awakes/reincarnates. The Necrons are capable of gibbing Terra whenever they so wish, should that one Dynasty ever decide to weaponize the Celestial Orrery and snuff out all life in the galaxy- hell Necron ships are powerful enough that they could easily obliterate Terra itself if they ever gathered their Tombships into a full fleet, a small fleet of their "frigates" managed to dodge nearly everything thrown at them by Sol's defenses until they hit Mars. The Orks are everywhere and aren't going anywhere anytime soon (literally everywhere considering they likely inhabit a greater portion of the entire universe). Should a Warboss similar to the one that "strangled" the Emperor during the GC ever arise, the resulting WHAAAGH! would quite likely obliterate the Imperium. Then of course there's the Nids, who while have been the whipping boy of everyone else for a while, should their true numbers live up to the hype, they would shatter the Imperium by drowning them in bodies and shutting down all forms of FTL communication the IOM currently possesses and plunge humanity into another age of darkness and solitude, now at the mercy of Tyranids.

Abaddon's death by the blade of an assassin would also do little. Unless his soul is destroyed, the Chaos Gods would simply resurrect him, or if it is destroyed, they would find a new Warmaster of Chaos, with Erebus being a likely choice. Who also would be a far, faaaar greater threat to the Imperium, as it was largely his mind behind the mortal portion of the Horus Heresy. While there would be a period of well, chaos, in Chaos, they would reorganize themselves, and the new leader they pick might be a greater threat than Abaddon ever was.

Getting back to the tau never losing... I would like to point out that the hive fleet that invaded the farsight enclaves were split between an invasion of the eldar and tau worlds. If the complete nid fleet attacked the enclave, the tau probably would not have time to initiate their winning strategy. The tau victory came from evacuating the entire planet and letting the tyranids consume it. then a bio-virus was completed minutes before the last tau facility was over run with farsight's team barely escaping. The virus defeated the t yranids,not tau forces, and it was at the cost of losing theirr entire planet.


The tau also achieve victories, but usually after losing for months or years. In fact most victories would have been defeats were it not for O'Shava. The tau defeat the nids in space without losses? Yea I can see it. The tau lack ftl but they do have some of the best, most rapidly advancing, weaponry in the game. When you take into account the fleet hit and run tactics of the tau opposed to the close engagement of SM and tyranids. Unlikely, sure, but they were lead by farsight I beleive.

Damocles golf say tau forces pushed to the breaking point, nearly losing a core Sept world. Would the crusade have succeeded had their been more ships? Sure, would the tau have won if their ships possessed warp travel? Probably. War is full of ifs and buts.

Are the tau protected by plot armor? Yes. Does it make sense? It does actually. The tau are the smallest faction and as such are not seen as a threat by other races. They are also very centralised with the few planets they control being very close in proximity. Which is why they repel attackers so effectively. The IMO and other big factions have battles on many fronts in many different worlds within their vast empires.

So im saying the small size of the tau empire is why they seem to win all the time. Should the tau overextended themselves it would spell the end for them.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Sometimes I wish the setting wasn't so grim dark and actually give humanity a chance there would be no contest.

I feel this mindset is misguided. As bad as the situation may seem for humans, their situation can change faster than any other faction. Think about some possibilities.

The obvious--- Return of one or more Primarchs. The Lion is the most likely, then probably the Khan and the Wolf. Think about what a game changer that is. Huge. Could happen at any time.

Starchild cycle is legit, and Cypher accomplishes it- reincarnating the emperor while possibly destroying or badly wounding the Chaos gods.

Panacea recovered from the Dark Eldar. Huge.

Think about the impact just a single, negligble seeming intact STC discovery can have. Say for a type of high-protien grain that can grow in 10% worse conditions than the one they currently have. Or a water purifier that is 1% more efficient. Across the economies of scale of the entire Imperium the difference something small like that can make are huge.

SM boarding party on a space hulk recovers a fully functioning STC from a colony ship. There are probably actions like this taken by random marine chapters nearly every week. Eventually one of them is very likely to turn up a working STC or Iron Man or some type of schematic that changes everything.

Abaddon gets dropped by assassins. Yneed counters She Who Thirsts, permanently, a new Lord Solar is born etc etc etc

Sure Humanity is taking a beating, but in one day, everything could change. Humanity is also much more durable than some of the other factions, since there aren't obvious points of weakness, like zapping the space pope or eviscerating Abaddon or what have you.

Except it could just as easily go south any moment, even faster than it can go north. The Chaos Gods are not only stated to be omnipotent within the warp and are outside time, should anything somehow manage to threaten them, they have time travel and could just as easily smack down any move made against them before it was ever made (and even then, I've heard that Chaos Gods have access to other universes, so food/entertainment isn't an issue for them), there's no real move the IOM could ever make to improve their situation, even if the God Emperor awakes/reincarnates. The Necrons are capable of gibbing Terra whenever they so wish, should that one Dynasty ever decide to weaponize the Celestial Orrery and snuff out all life in the galaxy- hell Necron ships are powerful enough that they could easily obliterate Terra itself if they ever gathered their Tombships into a full fleet, a small fleet of their "frigates" managed to dodge nearly everything thrown at them by Sol's defenses until they hit Mars. The Orks are everywhere and aren't going anywhere anytime soon (literally everywhere considering they likely inhabit a greater portion of the entire universe). Should a Warboss similar to the one that "strangled" the Emperor during the GC ever arise, the resulting WHAAAGH! would quite likely obliterate the Imperium. Then of course there's the Nids, who while have been the whipping boy of everyone else for a while, should their true numbers live up to the hype, they would shatter the Imperium by drowning them in bodies and shutting down all forms of FTL communication the IOM currently possesses and plunge humanity into another age of darkness and solitude, now at the mercy of Tyranids.

Abaddon's death by the blade of an assassin would also do little. Unless his soul is destroyed, the Chaos Gods would simply resurrect him, or if it is destroyed, they would find a new Warmaster of Chaos, with Erebus being a likely choice. Who also would be a far, faaaar greater threat to the Imperium, as it was largely his mind behind the mortal portion of the Horus Heresy. While there would be a period of well, chaos, in Chaos, they would reorganize themselves, and the new leader they pick might be a greater threat than Abaddon ever was.

I feel like you are sucummbing to a bit of mary-sue wishlisting for your faction, Chaos. Chaos is essentially a parasite. Their abilities to time travel or affect other galaxies are very sketchy and poorly understood-- and warp entities can die, or be destroyed (eldar pantheon, for example) so a star-child event would be a mortal threat to chaos. You list necrons as a faction that could destroy humanity, when in reality they are far, far more likely to seek out and destroy Chaos. Cadian pylons, for example. As more dynasties wake up they will direct their war efforts against their two main threats-- Eldar, and Chaos. Humans are just pests to them, not a mortal threat. These new offensives will continue to attrite the number of Chaos Space Marines as warp/real space overlaps contract, then vanish, greatly restricting CSM access to the material plane. Eventually only a handful of true Chaos marines will be left in the galaxy, and many or most of the greater demons will be incarcerated in Tesseract Arcs, greatly reducing the power and influence of the Chaos Gods. Chaos, as far as I know, besides very poorly written and ambiguous day dreams about time travel and extra-galactic influence, have no aces up their sleeves. The return of the emperor, discovery of a full STC, return of the Primarchs, etc etc etc all are possibilities for the Imperium. The Imperium is battered but still a sword of damocles hanging over the heads of all other factions. Only one or two things have to happen for them to just roflstomp everyone.