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 Red Corsair wrote:
In regard to mech guard:

Well a pair of CCS with OoTF pretty much handles your AA IMO.

-2 to their reserve rolls is CRIPPLING to heavy flier builds like cron air.

Then you only need 2 vendettas rather then 3, so theirs your missing points.

True, but you still need to make 2 Ld test at..7 if I'm not mistaken, which is somewhat shakey to rely on it to go off every turn.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
In regard to mech guard:

Well a pair of CCS with OoTF pretty much handles your AA IMO.

-2 to their reserve rolls is CRIPPLING to heavy flier builds like cron air.

Then you only need 2 vendettas rather then 3, so theirs your missing points.

True, but you still need to make 2 Ld test at..7 if I'm not mistaken, which is somewhat shakey to rely on it to go off every turn.

Being in a CCS would it be tested on the OotF or the Co.commander's ld?

Yeah, I'm super curious about blob squads now.

1 Platoon Command Squad w/ Autocannons 40
4 Infantry Platoons w/ auto cannons 240
50 Conscripts 150
Priest 25
x2

Total : 455 Points .. 910 minimum
180 + models...

Kind of curious how this would work. I mean okay with a 900 point limit on infantry just basic dudes, what's the most efficient break down for Platoons and CCS?

 alarmingrick wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
In regard to mech guard:

Well a pair of CCS with OoTF pretty much handles your AA IMO.

-2 to their reserve rolls is CRIPPLING to heavy flier builds like cron air.

Then you only need 2 vendettas rather then 3, so theirs your missing points.

True, but you still need to make 2 Ld test at..7 if I'm not mistaken, which is somewhat shakey to rely on it to go off every turn.

Being in a CCS would it be tested on the OotF or the Co.commander's ld?

Just says "leadership test" so unless GW says otherwise: highest leadership goes.

2 LD 9 tests is pretty easy honestly, your at least pinging them with one, add a commissar and now its a 10.

 Red Corsair wrote:
2 LD 9 tests is pretty easy honestly, your at least pinging them with one, add a commissar and now its a 10.

Only Lord Commissars get LD10, and you wouldn't get the second CCS if you took one. You could take Creed, but he isn't very good for mech.

Any good Forgeworld potential with the new codex?

Biggest one I am seeing is giving the Ignores Cover order to the Artillery Carriage. Str 9 AP 3 Ignores Covers is a nice replacement for the Collossus.

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
Any good Forgeworld potential with the new codex?

Well you no need it for the missing Ordnance Battery guns. Plus Autocannon Chimeras. So it still belongs I think.

 Red Corsair wrote:
2 LD 9 tests is pretty easy honestly, your at least pinging them with one, add a commissar and now its a 10.

If by commissar you mean inquisitor, then yes. That's your only cheap option for Ld 10 that doesn't take one of your guard HQ slots..

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
Any good Forgeworld potential with the new codex?

Biggest one I am seeing is giving the Ignores Cover order to the Artillery Carriage. Str 9 AP 3 Ignores Covers is a nice replacement for the Collossus.

Don't know. FW has said they will be doing a big IG update soon-ish, so we will see.

Mavnas wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
2 LD 9 tests is pretty easy honestly, your at least pinging them with one, add a commissar and now its a 10.

If by commissar you mean inquisitor, then yes. That's your only cheap option for Ld 10 that doesn't take one of your guard HQ slots..

Except you can't put that Inquisitor in any of your Chimera/Taurox transports in a Mech list, and the CCS is extremely useful to have supporting the advance in its own Chimera, especially with an Astropath and Senior Officer Orders.

I played my first game with the new book last night and all I can say is" Geez...these guys are good."

Game was against Eldar, and my friend is still pretty new to 6th edition, so I took a list that I thought was good, but not super-charged-mega-good. I failed most of my orders on turn one, failed my psychic checks, had to fire almost my entire army at his rangers to get first blood, and then lost my Primaris straight away on his first turn. After that, though...carnage ensued. Pask was unstoppable and everybody else preformed as well as you'd expect and he was tabled on my turn 5. (The MoO killed two Dire Avengers the whole game and missed everything else.)

For friendly games in the future, I think I'll have to tone this army down. The dice were in my favor some, but this was overkill any way you look at it.

 tomjoad wrote:
I played my first game with the new book last night and all I can say is" Geez...these guys are good."

Game was against Eldar, and my friend is still pretty new to 6th edition, so I took a list that I thought was good, but not super-charged-mega-good. I failed most of my orders on turn one, failed my psychic checks, had to fire almost my entire army at his rangers to get first blood, and then lost my Primaris straight away on his first turn. After that, though...carnage ensued. Pask was unstoppable and everybody else preformed as well as you'd expect and he was tabled on my turn 5. (The MoO killed two Dire Avengers the whole game and missed everything else.)

For friendly games in the future, I think I'll have to tone this army down. The dice were in my favor some, but this was overkill any way you look at it.

Winning in spite of virtually everything that could go wrong going wrong on the first turn?

Impressive.

 Kain wrote:

Winning in spite of virtually everything that could go wrong going wrong on the first turn?

Impressive.

He killed a squad of rangers first turn. It didn't go THAT wrong for him.

 daedalus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Winning in spite of virtually everything that could go wrong going wrong on the first turn?

Impressive.

He killed a squad of rangers first turn. It didn't go THAT wrong for him.

By firing just about his entire army at it.

That kind of counts as going wrong given the alpha strike capacity the guard can offer.

 Kain wrote:

By firing just about his entire army at it.

That kind of counts as going wrong given the alpha strike capacity the guard can offer.

Eh, maybe. He never said he actually went first. Assuming he went second and a large enough size squad of Rangers with Fortune, I could actually see them being almost unkillable. Hell, even a large enough size squad of Rangers without Fortune at far enough range out would be hard to kill if you can't get into lasgun range. That's likely 2+ saves you're looking at there.

Seems like a wyvern or 3 would make short work of them.

Mavnas wrote:
Seems like a wyvern or 3 would make short work of them.

A hellhound would potentially be better still.

alarmingrick wrote:What about us that want to stay more in the Mech role?

Things will stay roughly the same. Mech guard is still easily going to be the strongest way to run a guard army. A squad of melta mechvets costs virtually the same as it did before, and while it did lose a special weapon shooting out the top hatch, it also gained much cheaper vehicle upgrades, much cheaper doctrines, and access to better buffing through techpriests, primarises, and better orders for those times they get out.

Meanwhile, mech guard also gained VASTLY cheaper russes, and much cheaper sentinels as well, while on the other hand, there is now a fast transport for certain units, and hellhounds &co. are the same as they were before.

Foot guard got less useless, but so long as mech gunlines are the strongest way to play 40k, they're going to be the strongest way to play guard.

You know, 2 Dire Avengers is still worth the points for a MoO.

 Ailaros wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:What about us that want to stay more in the Mech role?

Things will stay roughly the same. Mech guard is still easily going to be the strongest way to run a guard army. A squad of melta mechvets costs virtually the same as it did before, and while it did lose a special weapon shooting out the top hatch, it also gained much cheaper vehicle upgrades, much cheaper doctrines, and access to better buffing through techpriests, primarises, and better orders for those times they get out.

Meanwhile, mech guard also gained VASTLY cheaper russes, and much cheaper sentinels as well, while on the other hand, there is now a fast transport for certain units, and hellhounds &co. are the same as they were before.

Foot guard got less useless, but so long as mech gunlines are the strongest way to play 40k, they're going to be the strongest way to play guard.

Would you say that hybrid and mech platoon are both effectively dead?

 Trickstick wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
2 LD 9 tests is pretty easy honestly, your at least pinging them with one, add a commissar and now its a 10.

Only Lord Commissars get LD10, and you wouldn't get the second CCS if you took one. You could take Creed, but he isn't very good for mech.

this is why my preists go in the blobs along side the inquisitors.... ld 10 all the way baby... also more precience and force weapon goodness, ant at I 4 too!

daedalus wrote:Would you say that hybrid and mech platoon are both effectively dead?

Well, I would, but that's likely only because I didn't like hybrid in the first place. Doubling down on weaknesses without adding strength.

Certainly if you were running a foot+russ list your army just got stronger because of the cheaper russes, mostly. Much of the boosts to foot guard come in the Ld department, which wasn't their weakness in the first place.

Mech platoons are slightly interesting, though. They didn't lose anything from the chimera hatch change and actually gained, thanks to the new lasgun port rules. But of course, then lost because chimeras got more expensive, but gained because their upgrades cost less. I guess for mech platoons, it's roughly a wash.

The biggest loss, though, is the loss of al'rahem letting a giant wad of them outflank. That one will be missed.

Not to say you couldn't do an updated version of nasguard, though...

CCS - 2x melta, OotF, chimera
Priest - plasma
Priest - plasma
Priest - plasma

PCS - 4x melta guns, chimera
PIS - melta, kraks, chimera
PIS - melta, kraks,chimera

PCS - 4x melta guns, chimera
PIS - melta, kraks,chimera
PIS - melta, kraks,chimera

Hellhound - multimelta
Hellhound - multimelta
Devil dog - multimelta


For 1500 points.

The idea is that everything charges forwards turn 1, and then a small amount of melta and plasma and stuff go zap, but the infantry really get stronger once they leave the cans as they gain orders and starting on turn 3 rerollable krak grenades against vehicles. In the meantime the vehicles ram or flamer everything.

I don't know if 56 guard infantry models are going to cut it, though. I suppose I'm not a mech platoon commander, though.

That's interesting.

This gives me the idea of supplementing the lack of the second gun in the IS with a priest. That still gives them Vet levels of firepower (though at reduced BS) while still running them SLIGHTLY cheaper and more numerous.

I will have to think about it. I'm going to have a game with a friend on Monday. After my hybrid fiasco, I'm probably either going to throw mech or foot guard at him. If I go mech, it'll probalby be strongly based off of this.

I'm not that great at figuring out which units work well together. Could I take a list that would have sentinels (armored with LC's) and hellhounds in it, and it be okay?

I really just want to play with all my toys. That's why I love the IG. I have some Leman Russ, chimeras, infantry, but nowhere the amount I see in some of these lists, some Rough Riders, which I will paint up one day and play with. And I have one basilisk, two griffins, and a Demolisher I have to include. Without using the griffins, I suppose I would need to buy at least one more basilisk, or something.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I'm not that great at figuring out which units work well together. Could I take a list that would have sentinels (armored with LC's) and hellhounds in it, and it be okay?

I really just want to play with all my toys. That's why I love the IG. I have some Leman Russ, chimeras, infantry, but nowhere the amount I see in some of these lists, some Rough Riders, which I will paint up one day and play with. And I have one basilisk, two griffins, and a Demolisher I have to include. Without using the griffins, I suppose I would need to buy at least one more basilisk, or something.

Hounds and armored sentinels are totally workable.

I'm not a fan of giving priests a plasma gun unless you can guarantee they will also get a reroll. That's almost a 1 in 6 chance he will kill himself and leave his unit not fearless. Having vets with plasma gun is cheaper at better BS.

I asked earlier but whats a good like 800 to 950 point gun line? Not including Psykers. CCS , PCS etc..

Mavnas wrote:
I'm not a fan of giving priests a plasma gun unless you can guarantee they will also get a reroll. That's almost a 1 in 6 chance he will kill himself and leave his unit not fearless. Having vets with plasma gun is cheaper at better BS.

I hear that; he got equal chance of burning himself than he is to precise shot his shots...I'd rather go with the free autogun, since hey, it's free!

Yeah. He has only a 1 in 12 chance to kill himself per shot, and the reason why you put a priest in a mech PIS isn't to give them fearless - they'll get wiped out long before they have to worry about leadership, and you don't make many pinning checks in a transport.

The priest does two things. The first, as mentioned, is to give a mech PIS a second special weapon to shoot out the hatch. The second is that it's a cheap way (not counting the plasma gun) to give the squad extra oomph once it gets somewhere.

It seems to me that the point of having a big swarm of infantry squads in chimeras is going to involve them swarming somewhere and likely getting out, which the priest will help better with.

Not so much for vets, who don't need the extra slot, and are going to be used much more defensively and prefer not to leave their ride at all.