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Just like the title says, If I have to have one or the other, should I equip my sergeants with combi weapons or go for the extra leadership?

I'd go with combis, rather then vet.

If you field Marneus you don't need the vets.

The leadership buff of the veteran sergeant upgrade allows you to save 8.3 out of 10 times rather than 7.2 out of 10 times. This is moderately helpful if you're running squads of 10, but much more questionable if you're breaking them up into combat squads. Ask yourself: how often is each individual squad of marines rolling leadership tests during a game, and is it really worth spending 10 points to buff that by 10%? There are a lot of 5 and 10pt upgrades in the SM army that you could spend that on instead.

I follow the same logic with combi-weapons: how often are you actually going to use it, and is it going to offset your point cost? There are going to be quite a few games where the sgt dies or never gets in range of enemies, and even if he does, he only get's one shooting phase worth of firepower out of the thing before it reverts back to a regular-ol-bolter. Unless you're playing Salamanders (and so get a mastercrafted weapon for your sgt), I think it's of questionable use.

The only upgrade I give my sergeants are meltabombs. They're cheap, and they make your marines much more deadly against Vehicles, Walkers or MCs that wander too close. I have a hard time justifying anything else.

My vote is for Combi-Weapons as well. With ATTKNF, failing a CC leadership test can actually be beneficial (old school Combat Tactics FTW!) and the LD tests outside of CC are just too few and far between to justify the 10 point upgrade, IMO.

Combi weapons are great for drop pod units .

I run salamanders, so combi-flamers are kind of a no-brainer for me. even if I only get to use them on overwatch, it still feels like more value then +1A and +1Ld for the same cost.

The veteran.

What is a tactical squad's job? Survive and be located next to its objective at games end. LD tests are easy to cause, especially if your bringing smaller squads.

And marines don't enjoy the redundancy with troops others get. So Ld is essential.

Combat power is secondary.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
The veteran.

What is a tactical squad's job? Survive and be located next to its objective at games end. LD tests are easy to cause, especially if your bringing smaller squads.

And marines don't enjoy the redundancy with troops others get. So Ld is essential.

Combat power is secondary.

ATSKNF

Even with my ravenwing, I would rather have the extra combi shot than +1Ld. leadership checks hurt if I fail, but so long as the squad does not run off the board, then it is not really a big deal. Then again, being stubborn is pretty nice for combat...

ATSKNF is beautiful. Coming from a xenos background, having no fear is a seriously big deal. No getting swept, no continuing to fall back, no fear tests, no cares...

+1 to combis.

I have twice lost games when a tactical squad failed a leadership test at exactly the wrong time. Had we played another turn maybe different story, but we didn't.

I can't recall a game I lost because I didn't have a combi weapon.

So agree with everyone about the utility of combis, and melta bombs, but to the op, for me I'd take the LD (and +1 attack) more often than I would take the combi.

Here is the disclaimer:

If its a backfield troop, the veteran is more important because you will get shot at but less often in CC, and your combi range limits its use

In contrast if its a midfield troops fit out, like plasma/combiplasma then your veteran is far less use: they will be closer to your powerful elites, in range for combi weapon, and they need the added combat power over the backfield squad

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
I have twice lost games when a tactical squad failed a leadership test at exactly the wrong time. Had we played another turn maybe different story, but we didn't.

I can't recall a game I lost because I didn't have a combi weapon.

So agree with everyone about the utility of combis, and melta bombs, but to the op, for me I'd take the LD (and +1 attack) more often than I would take the combi.

I understand that in two games out of the endless amount of games you played, you failed a leadership that costed the game. But you have to remember the 10 points doesn't make the tactical squad fearless, your leadership goes from 8 to 9. A roll of: 10, 11, and 12 still cause the same effect. And you have to account that the game ended and you didn't get your 3" free movement. You play a game of die, you're bound to have games where the dice don't roll in your favor.

Combi's give you an oppurtunity that +1 leadership will never do. It allows you more wounds or critical high Strength wounds that your army simply will not have if you don't buy the combi. +1 leadership only is going to help you 10% of the time and that's only if that particular combat squad has the sergeant in it or if you need to make a morale check to begin with. To be honest, I'd rather have the -1 leadership to have a higher chance of getting out of CC so I can shoot on my turn. They can't be swept, so it's a win/win to have a lower leadership.

Edit: If you're putting tacticals as your backfield objectives, you're already wasting points. Save 10 (15 points if you don't buy cloaks) and buy scouts. Tacticals are durable and you pay for that. If they aren't midfield or closer, then you're wasting points. Grab a combi on your tacticals and play them correctly.

+1 Combi vote.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
The veteran.

What is a tactical squad's job? Survive and be located next to its objective at games end. LD tests are easy to cause, especially if your bringing smaller squads.

And marines don't enjoy the redundancy with troops others get. So Ld is essential.

Combat power is secondary.

Combat power is NOT secondary in 6th ed. That's why marine troops suck. Go with the combi to pretend to be efficacious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
I have twice lost games when a tactical squad failed a leadership test at exactly the wrong time. Had we played another turn maybe different story, but we didn't.

I can't recall a game I lost because I didn't have a combi weapon.

So agree with everyone about the utility of combis, and melta bombs, but to the op, for me I'd take the LD (and +1 attack) more often than I would take the combi.

Here is the disclaimer:

If its a backfield troop, the veteran is more important because you will get shot at but less often in CC, and your combi range limits its use

In contrast if its a midfield troops fit out, like plasma/combiplasma then your veteran is far less use: they will be closer to your powerful elites, in range for combi weapon, and they need the added combat power over the backfield squad

My squads are being eliminated, not tests being forced. I'm FORCED to take vets as BA, and they are useless.

It depends on what your squads are doing. People are forgetting the extra attack which can make a difference if you get caught in a combat.

That said a combi weapon might just help cripple an important unit especially if you're alpha striking.

 angelsvermillion wrote:
It depends on what your squads are doing. People are forgetting the extra attack which can make a difference if you get caught in a combat.

That said a combi weapon might just help cripple an important unit especially if you're alpha striking.

An extra marine swing is not going to help often.

I prefer veterancy over combi-weapons because I absolutely swear by power fists. So many times I have regretted not having one means I take one with almost every tac squad.

A melta/plasma/flamer/grav shot will be more useful to you than an extra attack and LTD.