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Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





 Lord Scythican wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
It probably wouldn't be hard to do, though it would make things hard to figure out at times.


It might just be OCD. I don't know why it bothers me so much. To me it would be like using Flames of War tanks as Landraiders in 40K...

For what its worth, Beyond Earth looks like it would be a really good game.

I know there is a mod for Civ V that makes units more "realistic." No doubt the same will be done for this one.

   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Lord Scythican wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
It probably wouldn't be hard to do, though it would make things hard to figure out at times.


It might just be OCD. I don't know why it bothers me so much. To me it would be like using Flames of War tanks as Landraiders in 40K...

For what its worth, Beyond Earth looks like it would be a really good game.
Abstractions bother you that much?

I mean, even a Land Raider is way too small for what it is, compared to the size of a Marine that it is supposed to carry.

Which also means that the weapons ON the Land Raider are also oversized compared to the actual tank itself.

In Civ, even tracts of land and resources are abstracted to an extent (with the exception of strategic resources). This is why you're still getting some production from hills, or mines, without metal resources-- it's assumed you have some resource aquisition in that area, it's just that you don't have a rich vein of gold or copper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 18:44:23


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in eu
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

If you want "realistic scale", units in Civ would at best be visible as small black pixels slowly crawling from one hex to another.

At best, I suppose you could replace them with symbols.

vs

I'm just not sure if this would really be more fun, but then again fun is subjective.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 19:37:44


 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Princeton, WV

It doesn't have to be realistic. I can get past true scale vs. heroic scale. For a game like this, I could easily get by with a scale found in Age of Empires or those old desert storm helicopter games. For beyond earth I could go with AoE sized troops and cities being a little larger. It does bother me quite a bit, but like I said it is probably some mild form of OCD. I realize I am a minority here and I am not 100% "it has to be perfect scale!".

I used to play with those little green army men when I was a kid. I had a C-130 that was about two and a half feet long. I was ok with it, because it was slightly believable but say I put my green army men in a 6 inch long C-130...well it would make me cringe.

What's bad is I am complaining more about my attitude then the game itself. I really hate that the scale bothers me so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lynata wrote:
If you want "realistic scale", units in Civ would at best be visible as small black pixels slowly crawling from one hex to another.

At best, I suppose you could replace them with symbols.

vs

I'm just not sure if this would really be more fun, but then again fun is subjective.



Btw...I never said "realistic scale". That isn't what I want.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/11 01:49:35


 
   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Oh - okay, I admit, I didn't expect someone to be bothered by units being "too big", but not "still too big, but a little smaller".

Don't get me wrong, this is entirely a matter of preferences and I'm not trying to make fun of you, I just don't ... get it, hence the misunderstanding and the suggestion with symbols.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Princeton, WV

 Lynata wrote:
Oh - okay, I admit, I didn't expect someone to be bothered by units being "too big", but not "still too big, but a little smaller".

Don't get me wrong, this is entirely a matter of preferences and I'm not trying to make fun of you, I just don't ... get it, hence the misunderstanding and the suggestion with symbols.


What's wrong with the Age of Empires scale? It seems like a good compromise. I just have a hard time looking at a tank and 10 Frost giants pouring out of it. At least with AoE I can suspend disbelief a little, but with Civilization I can not do that all...

To me this would be like playing 40k with Space Marines being 9 inches tall next to a land raider...the scale just seems unnecessary. I can deal with a few millimeters being off but this is just too much. If this was 40K I would expect people being okay with 2 inch long land raiders. Sure it's a personal preference like you said, but is there really anything wrong with that? I don't think it is wrong for someone to be ok with this scale after all.
   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

There is nothing wrong with the Age of Empires scale. Just like there is nothing wrong with the Civilization scale. In my opinion, both are perfectly fine.

What I attempted to express is merely that I don't get how one can have a problem with the one but not with the other.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Princeton, WV

 Lynata wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the Age of Empires scale. Just like there is nothing wrong with the Civilization scale. In my opinion, both are perfectly fine.

What I attempted to express is merely that I don't get how one can have a problem with the one but not with the other.


Like I said, I don't think there is anything wrong with someone being ok with with civilization's scale. In addition like I said, a few millimeters off is ok for me. My issues is really focused on "too much" instead of "accuracy". That's not a bad thing is it?
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Lord Scythican wrote:
 Lynata wrote:
Oh - okay, I admit, I didn't expect someone to be bothered by units being "too big", but not "still too big, but a little smaller".

Don't get me wrong, this is entirely a matter of preferences and I'm not trying to make fun of you, I just don't ... get it, hence the misunderstanding and the suggestion with symbols.


What's wrong with the Age of Empires scale? It seems like a good compromise. I just have a hard time looking at a tank and 10 Frost giants pouring out of it. At least with AoE I can suspend disbelief a little, but with Civilization I can not do that all...

To me this would be like playing 40k with Space Marines being 9 inches tall next to a land raider...the scale just seems unnecessary. I can deal with a few millimeters being off but this is just too much. If this was 40K I would expect people being okay with 2 inch long land raiders. Sure it's a personal preference like you said, but is there really anything wrong with that? I don't think it is wrong for someone to be ok with this scale after all.


It's just an abstraction to represent a military unit being in that location. If this was a board game, you would just have a token there.

Looking at the scale of the cities, if you wanted anything even close to actual scale you would end up with some tiny, single pixel dots for units. Which wouldn't be recognisable, and would make the game unplayable. So, then they would have to have some label or abstract representation of those units..... wait a minute!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Okay, going to try an extra-long game...

Anyone have any recommendations for a health-focused Purity game, what general research order should be?

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





So I broke down and got the game... Started my first with Polystralia, and now I'm wondering /working on how to most efficiently get to the "end game" units/sciences.

I think I started off OK, most of my selections increase my science and culture for now, so the picks keep rolling in (it's also a "standard" game, so not the marathon slog of previous games)

One thing I've noticed though, is that I seem to have a Siege Worm bait near my towns...
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Look for the Ultrasonic Fence.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Melissia wrote:
Look for the Ultrasonic Fence.


Got it on my Capital city... and I have the perk/tech thing that makes it so aliens don't attack my trade units but my second city has 2 of the buggers swimming around it that I've been picking down each turn they're there.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Yeh, but at least you can poke at them without retribution, unlike manticores.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Lord Scythican wrote:
I have always wanted to play these games, but the scale it always a put off for me. I can't stand Frost giant sized soldiers standing next to these tiny houses and vehicles. I was really hoping this one had the scale of something like Age of Empires but it looks like it doesn't. Is there any kind of mods that fix these issues or am I the only one bothered by this?


Used to bug me as well before I got into Civ but it just represents a company/division/brigade of said unit. If you went into the demographics statistics on Civ5 you saw your army was numbered in hundreds of thousands when you had like 30 units.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





So I've made enough progress down my first chosen course (the "become an alien hybrid" one) and I'm beginning to get some of the interesting dialogue happenings

They seem to, thus far, have done a good job with various nations reactions to your choices and each others' choices.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Anyone run into a situation where, no matter how badly you're whoopin' an AI civ, they simply WILL NOT negotiate peace when you're at war?
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Normally I have found the opposite to be the case, where you declare war and then they end up negotiating and giving you a city and other favourable terms - actually found it an easier way of conquering than fighting the computer player in some situations!

Do you have a much larger army than the person you are attacking? I wonder if the computer player checks your relative strength levels (or it might be the personality of the person you are attacking also?)

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Pacific wrote:
Normally I have found the opposite to be the case, where you declare war and then they end up negotiating and giving you a city and other favourable terms - actually found it an easier way of conquering than fighting the computer player in some situations!

Do you have a much larger army than the person you are attacking? I wonder if the computer player checks your relative strength levels (or it might be the personality of the person you are attacking also?)



Nope, the "russians" and the "Africans" declared war on me at the same time. I have done ZERO fighting with the Africans (seeing as they are on a different continent than me), and I've now literally wiped the "russians" off of the same continent that I started on. They've lost their capital and basically all military units, when, at the beginning of the war, they had some serious firepower over me.


About the only thing I can think of, is that because I've done all the way down the "become and alien" affinity (I know it's not supremacy or purity... the other one) and they've both gone for Supremacy, I think, so the ideological difference is so great that they won't accede to peace no matter what?
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Harmony, you're thinking of.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Melissia wrote:
Harmony, you're thinking of.



Yep...



.....Aaaand I lost that game to Brasilia, with no option for "one more turn"... stupid fethers I was building my transcendence victory wonder
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

That's what happened in my first game. I was massively ahead of everyone else (25% more points than 2nd place), but, whoops, someone beat me to one of the magical victories. Gotta keep an eye out for that. Even an underdog can still win if they're quick enough.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Harmony, you're thinking of.



Yep...

.....Aaaand I lost that game to Brasilia, with no option for "one more turn"... stupid fethers I was building my transcendence victory wonder


It doesn't give you an option for 'one more turn' ?

And there is no scoring rank either, or stats/breakdown by turns at the end which can rank you as 'Dan Quayle' by your leadership ability?

Those were the types of touches that made Civ the game that it was..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/15 21:03:58


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Yeah, this seems to be following the trend of recent Civ games. Wait a year, see if it's become good then.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Pacific wrote:


It doesn't give you an option for 'one more turn' ?


It didn't for me, but that may be due to the victory type achieved? I really don't know, as I barely started my second game (still on standard speed, as I want to win one in a "quick" game mode before I go for a marathon game)

Also, I know that I made some pretty significant mistakes in my first game. Trade is pretty interesting/fun in this game, and I didn't fully live up to that potential. Also, I spent most of the game with a red health meter
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

It gives a "just one more turn" for all victory types, for me.

Haven't lost yet though so Iunno about that.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Melissia wrote:
It gives a "just one more turn" for all victory types, for me.

Haven't lost yet though so Iunno about that.


It kind of makes sense if you lose to the CPU, you can't try and steal a victory from the ashes with another victory type, although It would still very much be possible to get a domination victory, or your other affinity victory.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Professional





St.Joseph MO

First major patch has hit. So far looks like alot of good changes.


http://www.civilization.com/en/news/2014-12--civilization-beyond-earth-fall-update-now-live/


Balance

Wonders and Buildings:
• Holon Chamber provides 3 Science, 4 Energy (was 5 Science)
• Mind Stems cannot be bought with Energy.

Diplomacy:
• Any diplo item can now be traded in exchange for a peace treaty
• Lump Energy trade requires a Cooperation Agreement.

Trade:
• Water trade routes no longer receive any increased yield.
• Revised trade route formula for city-to-city trade, with reduced yields.
• Trade Depots can no longer be purchased with Energy.

Aliens:
• Clearing a friendly alien nest now removes the Xenomass resource from player stockpile.
• Adjusting passive recovery rate for alien opinion to be slower, to permit easier aggression escalation.
Covert Ops:
• Establish Network now has 0 difficulty and produces 0 intrigue. This prevents players from exploiting it to increase intrigue.

Health effects balancing:
• From -20 to -70, Production is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
• From -15 to -65, enemy Covert Ops Intrigue is increased +2% per point (up to +100%).
• From -10 to -60, Science is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
• From -5 to -55, Culture is penalized -1% per point (up to -50%).
• From 0 to -50, Outpost Growth is penalized -2% per point (up to -100%).
• From 0 to -50, City Growth is penalized -2% per point (up to -100%).
• From 1 to 5, nothing happens.
• From 5 to 25, Production bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
• From 10 to 30, enemy Covert Ops Intrigue is decreased -2% per point (up to -40%).
• From 15 to 35, Science bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
• From 20 to 40, Culture bonus +1 per point (up to +20%).
• From 25 to 45, City Growth bonus +1% per point (up to +20%).
• From 25 to 45, Outpost Growth bonus +2% per point (up to +40%).

Virtues:
• Eudaimonia (Tier III Prosperity virtue) now provides -15% less Unhealth (was -25%)
• Learning Centers now provides +1 Science for Academies (was +2)

Game Setup:
• Sponsors:
o Kozlov Ability: Orbital units last 50% longer, +50% Petroleum resource (was Orbital units last 20% longer and first launch grants free technology)
o Barre Ability: +10% Growth when Healthy, all cities start with an Old Earth Relic (was +10% Growth when Healthy)
o Rejinaldo Ability: Melee units +10% Strength, all units +5 Heal when fortified (was +10% Melee combat strength)
o Elodie Ability: provides 1 free Virtue for every 10 Virtues earned normally through Culture (was 1 free Tech for every 10 Virtues earned in any way)
• Colonists:
o Aristocrats now provide +4 Energy per City (no Health bonus)
o Artists now provide +3 Culture per City (no Health bonus)

Tech Web:
• Clear Miasma now unlocks on Ecology (was Alien Biology)
• Miasmic Repulsor now unlocks on Alien Biology (was Ecology)
• Array Science bonus now unlocks on Astrodynamics (was Orbital Automation)
• Planet Carver now unlocks on Orbital Automation (was Astrodynamics)
• Markov Eclipse now unlocks on Transcendental Math (was Artificial Intelligence)

Stations:
• Station start turn base is now 30 (was 20)
• Station minimum allowed distance to another station is now 2 (was 3)
• Station minimum allowed distance to a city is now 6 (was 5)
• Station minimum allowed distance to an outpost is now 5 (was 3)

Affinity Perks:
• Harmony level 1 grants Miasma Immunity to the Explorer unit (was Alien opinion recovers twice as quickly)
• Purity level 1 adds double combat strength when defending to Explorer unit (was Aliens cannot attack Explorers)

Quests:
• Affinity rewarded as a quest reward now ramps up slowly over the first 100 turns (on standard). This ramp will vary with game speed.
• All players now get affinity quests within 1 turn of each other. If it's not possible for all players to receive a quest at the same time, the game waits until this is possible, then immediately gives all players a new affinity quest.
• Autoplant Building Quest grants bonus Production (was +1 Trade Route)

Units:
• Explorers now have 6 combat strength (was 3).
• Sea units now follow the same rules for ranged combat defense as all other units: they use the highest of their combat values (ranged combat or melee combat) when calculating defense.
• Combat Rover unit can no longer fortify, and no longer receives defense bonuses from the terrain it is on.
• Raising the secondary level requirement for the hybrid upgrades of affinity units:
o First affinity unit (ex. Xeno Swarm) now upgrades at level 10 of main affinity and level 4 of secondary affinity (was 10+2)
o Second affinity unit (ex. Xeno Cavalry) now upgrades at 12+5 (was 12+3)
o Third affinity unit (ex. Rocktopus) now upgrades at level 14+6 (was 14+4)
o Fourth affinity unit (ex. Xeno Titan) now upgrades at level 16+7 (was 16+5)
• Lowering strategic resource costs for many affinity units, to ensure consistency across affinities and make top tier units easier to build. The first affinity units require 1 strategic, the second require 2, the third require 3, and the fourth require 5.
o CARVR now costs 2 Firaxite (was 3)
o Rocktopus now costs 2 Xenomass and 1 Floatstone (was 3 Xenomass and 1 Floatstone)
o LEV Tank now costs 3 Floatstone (was 4)
o SABR now costs 3 Firaxite (was 4)
o Xeno Titan now costs 5 Xenomass (was 7)
o LEV Destroyer now costs 5 Floatstone (was 7)
o ANGEL now costs 5 Firaxite (was 6)
• Increased production costs of upgraded Combat Rovers and Missile Rovers:
o Combat Rovers now cost 80, 160, 260, 370 (was 80, 140, 220, 320)
o Missile Rovers now cost 100, 190, 290, 400 (was 100, 180, 270, 370)
• Lowering combat strength progression of Combat Rover:
o Combat Rover combat strength progression is now 12, 18, 28, 52 (was 12, 18, 32, 52)
• Changes to the combat strength of affinity units, to make non-upgraded ones more weak in general:
o Xeno Swarm now has 22 combat strength at start, 54 when upgraded (was 34, 54)
o Xeno Cavalry now has 36, 72 (was 48, 72)
o Rocktopus now has 60, 92 (was 60, 82)
o Xeno Titan now has 86, 114 (was 96, 114)
o Battlesuit now has 24, 66 (was 40, 66)
o Aegis now has 34, 34 double strike (was 40, 40 double strike)
o LEV Tank now has 44, 77 (was 52, 77)
o LEV Destroyer now has 74, 104 (was 84, 104)
o CNDR now has 24, 63 (was 38, 63)
o CARVR now has 38, 76 (was 50, 76)
o SABR now has 52, 86 (was 58, 86)
o ANGEL now has 78 with 78 melee, 102 with 88 melee (was 88 with 88 melee, 102 with 102 melee)

AI:
• Once the game is in Extended mode (after the player clicks the One More Turn button) the AI will now only pursue Domination.
• Warmonger threat per city acquisition is now capped.
• Warmonger calculation now scaled down when cities are taken by Sponsors that are reacting to a war that was declared upon them (that is, when that civ is not the aggressor).
• Adjusted AI bonuses on higher difficulty levels.
• Additional AI tuning, improvements, and tweaks.

Gameplay Feedback:
• Implemented anonymous gameplay telemetry for design feedback.

UI

Settings and Game Setup:
• The menu now displays EQAA modes instead of MSAA modes if in Mantle version and the GPU supports EQAA.
• Added option to disable UI/Map blur.
• The player is now informed that enabling max turns disables victory achievements.

Trade:
• Previous trade routes appear in their own category at top of trade route chooser

City/Production UI:

• Adding Health tooltip help in City View to explain health sources and population cap
• City production pop-up now shows the last item completed.
• Increased city renaming from 15 character max to 23 character max.

Misc:

• Allow "One More Turn" after the default win conditions (Contact, Promised Land, Emancipation, Transcendence, Domination, Time), added text to defeat screen explaining how you were defeated.
• Option to make minimap opaque
• ESC leaves orbital mode instead of raising in game shell menu
• Added a badge to covert ops button in the action corner which will show up, and a warning to the covert ops panel when a player has any cities with high intrigue.
• Tech web - adding color underlays to building and wonder types.
• Added additional Advisors for trade convoy and trade vessel.
• Added support for third party wars in diplo overview.
• Full touch/gesture and pen support added (Ultrabook, Surface Pro, etc.).

Multiplayer

• Setting the internet server browser list distance filtering to worldwide.
• All players are notified when anyone completes a victory wonder.
• Multiple improvements to stability.

Modding

• 2D fallback image now supported for leaders on all video quality settings, not just the lowest.
• Added the ability to mod Quests.

Bugs

• Embarked workers can now correctly repair pillaged improvements.
• Fixed an issue where Max turns was getting set on “Reload”, causing achievements to not fire.
• Fixed bug where victory achievements would only unlock for the first player on a team.
• Fixed empty trade requests that could occur during the AI turn.
• Fixed multiple Quest issues (quest tracking, information, and reward bugs).
• Fixed multiple issues with screen resolution on specific displays (like the 144Hz full-screen issue), and a Mantle issue causing the game to not display on the correct screen.
• Setting MaxTurns only affects timed victory conditions. For a timed victory, you must either not set MaxTurns (of which, there will be a default for the game speed), or set it to 100+ turns. All other victory conditions can be achieved regardless of max turns.
• Friendly aliens no longer blockade cities.
• Fixed some specific issues with resources not appearing properly in the player stockpile.
• Many additional bugs and crashes addressed based on community feedback. Thank you!

-Warmahordes-
Mercenaries


Menoth 
   
Made in us
Powerful Spawning Champion





There is not this idea.

Some good fixes in there, yeah. I'm especially glad to see some fixes and depth added to diplomacy, though it still seems like it'll be pretty shallow. What I really want is for there to be "causes" for war. For example, if one of the factions is attacking a station that I trade with, I could use that as a pretext for war.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 toasteroven wrote:
Some good fixes in there, yeah. I'm especially glad to see some fixes and depth added to diplomacy, though it still seems like it'll be pretty shallow. What I really want is for there to be "causes" for war. For example, if one of the factions is attacking a station that I trade with, I could use that as a pretext for war.


Or, if I'm a "harmony" civ, and I declare war on a "supremacy" civ, then ALL of the other Harmony civs should either join in, or not declare me a warmonger
   
 
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