Take Aim Order from AM Codex...

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**ItsPug**

Rob451 wrote:
ItsPug wrote:
Rob451 wrote:
I feel this is a result of there being two things called Precision Shot.

a) The Special Rule "Precision Shot"
b) The Weapon Rule "Precision Shots"

In the same way that Strikedown reads as if it's only ever going to be applied to weapons we now have units that have it (Imperial Knight) and no clarification on exactly how that works (Does it make the Heavy Stubbers Strikedown or just the melee attacks?).

Anyway I think what has happened with these rules is that Precision Shot the Special Rule grants Precision Shots the Weapon Rule on a to hit of a 6. Precision Shots the weapon rule then lets you allocate the hit how you want.

I say this because of the subtle difference in language between:

(From Ilic Nightspears entry where there is no ambiguity)
"Sharpshot: Shots fired by models with this rule (excluding snapshots) are always Precision Shots"

and

"...all models in the ordered unit have the Precision Shot Special Rule."

I believe the Bolt Pistol is supposed to have the Weapon Rule of Precision Shots thus making every shot it fires allocated by the wielder while the Take Aim order grants the unit Precision Shots the special rule which grants them Precision Shots on a 6.

I suspect this ambiguity is a result of the people writing/laying out the codex not actually being game designers and thus not knowing the difference.

However in an argument of Rules as Written it depends on which type of Codex and rulebook you have. If you have the eBook then the only definition for Precision Shot in there is one that lets you allocate all of the hits. If you have the iBook then the only definition in there is one that grants Characters the ability to allocate hits on a to hit of a 6. If you have a paper Codex then you have to abide by the rule on page 63 of the BRB which is the same as the iBook and thus RAW doesn't grant the ability to anybody other than characters.

So right now those with the eBook codex can claim codex trumps BRB and have an overpowered ability while everybody else has an order that doesn't do anything at all. Clearly not RAI but it's RAW.

The sniper special rule grants non-character models precision shots on a 6. You're argument that you need to be a character to get precision shots is therefore invalid. The precision shot rule allows to to allocate wounds to specific models, characters and snipers get precision shots on a 6, as per the paper codex in front of me, guardsmen get it by passing an order. There is no conflict.

Again the distinction between a special Rule called Precision Shot and a Weapon Effect called Precision Shots. Sniper grants the rule on page 63 on a to-hit of a 6 which RAW then would only work for Characters because the rule on that page states that Characters can use it and nobody else.

I'm not saying it makes sense and it's not how I play it but it's RAW.

Were I at a tournament and somebody tried to use your interpretation of the rule I would be calling over a TO straight away because there is no RAW answer that actually allows the rule to work at all.

RAW I would argue that Pathfinders also cannot allocate their shots because they are not characters but again I do not play it that way as there is a semantic difference between saying all shots are Precision Shots (The concept of allocating wounds by the firing model) and that models have the Precision Shot Special Rule (A rule that Characters have on Page 63 of the rule book that grants them a Precision Shot on a to hit of a 6).

Precision Shot: A shot that is allocated by the firing model.
Precision Shot Special Rule: Gain Precision Shots on a roll of a 6.

It's an issue where the effect that results from a rule is named the same as the rule that grants it.

Nowhere in the description for precision shots does it say that only characters can use this. It grants an ability that can be used by characters if they roll a 6, other rules in the same book state sniper weapons have this rule, also on a to hit roll of a 6. This does not mean precision shots only occur on a roll of a 6.

All of Telions shots are precision shots, all of the Vindicare's shots are precision shots, tau non-character Battlesuits can make precision shots on a 6, character suits can do it on a 5+.

The precision shot rule is the ability to allocate a wounding hit to a target. What you need to score on your to hit roll to gain this ability varies. Feel no pain is the same rule whether you pass on a 4+, 5+ or a 6, the same with precision shots.

**Rob451**

ItsPug wrote:
Nowhere in the description for precision shots does it say that only characters can use this. It grants an ability that can be used by characters if they roll a 6, other rules in the same book state sniper weapons have this rule, also on a to hit roll of a 6. This does not mean precision shots only occur on a roll of a 6.

All of Telions shots are precision shots, all of the Vindicare's shots are precision shots, tau non-character Battlesuits can make precision shots on a 6, character suits can do it on a 5+.

The precision shot rule is the ability to allocate a wounding hit to a target. What you need to score on your to hit roll to gain this ability varies. Feel no pain is the same rule whether you pass on a 4+, 5+ or a 6, the same with precision shots.

Page 63: "If any of your character's shots roll a 6 To Hit, these are Precision Shots."

I don't know how much more clear that can be. It's the first line of the Special Rule Precision Shots (as per the big bold heading: Precision Shots).

It then goes on to describe what a Precision Shot is. This is where the distinction between the Special Rule Precision Shot and the mechanic of Precision Shot exists. The Special Rule called Precision Shot grants characters Precision Shots on a To Hit of a 6. A Precision Shot is a wound that is allocated by the firing model.

As the Order grants the unit the Precision Shots Special Rule (Rather than saying all shots fired by the unit are Precision Shots) then it is granting the unit the Rule not the effect. In all other occasions where every shot a model fires is a Precision Shot their rule has explicitly stated as much. Following the examples GW have set with other Codices the Order would read "All shots fired by the Ordered Unit are Precision Shots."

That is because you can cause "Precision Shots" (The mechanic) without the "Precision Shots Special Rule" but the "Precision Shots Special Rule" only ever grants Characters a "Precision Shot" when they roll a 6 To Hit.

**easysauce**

IG codex orders,

and pay attention closely here,

"gives the units shots the precision shot rule"

that is not the same as

"makes all the unit's shots count as rolling a 6 using the precision shot rule"

so its x shots that have the precision shot rule needing 6's to activate the exception to wound allocation.

**Kommissar Kel**

I am not sure why we are discussing Illic Nightspear and Sgt Telion in a discussion about the Take Aim order.

No matter what the other 2 rules say; Take Aim grants the special rule, which is the effect on to-hit rolls of 6.

Upon Review:

Telion's Eye of vengeance grants the named effect(remember the is 2 uses of "Precision Shots", the special rule and the effect caused by rolling a 6 to-hit). This must be because he already has the Special rule and there is no mention of "Special Rule"

Sharpshot is the same as Eye of vengeance for the same reason.

**Rob451**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
I am not sure why we are discussing Illic Nightspear and Sgt Telion in a discussion about the Take Aim order.

No matter what the other 2 rules say; Take Aim grants the special rule, which is the effect on to-hit rolls of 6.

Upon Review:

Telion's Eye of vengeance grants the named effect(remember the is 2 uses of "Precision Shots", the special rule and the effect caused by rolling a 6 to-hit). This must be because he already has the Special rule and there is no mention of "Special Rule"

Sharpshot is the same as Eye of vengeance for the same reason.

They were only being referenced to indicate the difference between A Precision Shot and the Precision Shots Special Rule. I then made the example that RAW only Characters can ever benefit from the Precision Shots Special Rule (which is ridiculous and not how anybody plays it).

EDIT: Telion is worded the same as Ilic and anyody else who makes Precision Shots every time they fire. Those two words "Special Rule" are what's actually important in this discussion and the distinction between an overpowered broken Order and one that is not (assuming we ignore the stupid Characters part and replace the word with "Models with this rule" otherwise it would never work with Sniper).

**Smashotron**

It is clear to me that the Take Aim! order operates exactly as the "Emperor's Benediction" heirloom of conquest would work. This artifact has this profile:

Range 12" S5 AP4 Pistol, Precision Shot, Master-crafted

Now only characters may select this weapon, who gain Precision Shots on the roll of a "6." So by defining a Precision Shot rule in the weapon profile it is clear this character would allocate all hits, not just those rolled on "6s." Likewise, the first sentence of the Precision Shot definition is calling out how characters gain a Precision Shot (i.e. the roll of "6" to hit). The following text, which is clearly bolded in the BRB, is the complete definition of Precision Shot. That is:

"Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation."

Everyone just seems rabid over the fact that the Guard gained a good order to issue.

**ItsPug**

Under characters the title of the paragraph is precision shots. This is not the special rule, merely a description of the following paragraph. Is "issuing a challenge" a special rule? The actual effect, that is allocating a successful wounding hit to a target model of your choice is the rule.

Under the rules for characters it states that 6s to hit are precision shots. If you are of the opinion that this is the rule how do you explain that tau characters can score precision shots on a 5+?

**Rob451**

ItsPug wrote:
Under characters the title of the paragraph is precision shots. This is not the special rule, merely a description of the following paragraph. Is "issuing a challenge" a special rule? The actual effect, that is allocating a successful wounding hit to a target model of your choice is the rule.

Under the rules for characters it states that 6s to hit are precision shots. If you are of the opinion that this is the rule how do you explain that tau characters can score precision shots on a 5+?

Because their codex has a special piece of wargear that improves the rule and Codex trumps BRB.

Also by your logic all the headings in the Special Rules sections are not the names of Special Rules just a title. Following the precedent of the Special Rules section of the Rulebook the bold title is the name of the rule and it includes the stipulation that characters must roll a 6 To Hit to get a Precision Shot. You can't ignore some of the paragraph just because it suits you. The entire Paragraph is a rule the bold section is bold because it's important not because it's the entirety of the rule.

**Smashotron**

Smitty wrote:

Spoiler:

I find this very compelling. It defines Precision Shot outside of the confines of the Character section. It also does not make a specification to 'roll a "6" to hit' because that is a stipulation for Characters, as defined in the Character section.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rob451 wrote:

Also by your logic all the headings in the Special Rules sections are not the names of Special Rules just a title. Following the precedent of the Special Rules section of the Rulebook the bold title is the name of the rule and it includes the stipulation that characters must roll a 6 To Hit to get a Precision Shot. You can't ignore some of the paragraph just because it suits you. The entire Paragraph is a rule the bold section is bold because it's important not because it's the entirety of the rule.

The bold section is relevant to the Take Aim! order because the first sentence only applies to characters, by it's very wording. It is not that the first sentence is irrelevant, it is that it is specific to Characters.

**Wakshaani**

The biggest problem in this whole thing is as follows:

The name of the rule, Preciscion Shots, and in the text where rolling a 6 gives you ... a precision shot.

Never name a rule the same thing as the sub-rule., That just gets confusing. (Wait, so when I roll a '6' to hit, I ... gain the ability to grant myself a granting of rolling a 6 whenI roll a 6? How deeps does this rabbit hole go?!)

They badly need to clean the language up. (Perhaps being done for the rulebook revision allegedly this Summer?)

**ItsPug**

Rob451 wrote:
ItsPug wrote:
Under characters the title of the paragraph is precision shots. This is not the special rule, merely a description of the following paragraph. Is "issuing a challenge" a special rule? The actual effect, that is allocating a successful wounding hit to a target model of your choice is the rule.

Under the rules for characters it states that 6s to hit are precision shots. If you are of the opinion that this is the rule how do you explain that tau characters can score precision shots on a 5+?

Because their codex has a special piece of wargear that improves the rule and Codex trumps BRB.

Also by your logic all the headings in the Special Rules sections are not the names of Special Rules just a title. Following the precedent of the Special Rules section of the Rulebook the bold title is the name of the rule and it includes the stipulation that characters must roll a 6 To Hit to get a Precision Shot. You can't ignore some of the paragraph just because it suits you. The entire Paragraph is a rule the bold section is bold because it's important not because it's the entirety of the rule.

And my codex has a specific rule that improves the chance of getting a hit that results in a precision shot.

I'm ignoring the part of the paragraph that deals with how characters gain precision shots in the characters section. My guardsmen is not a character, how do I know he has scored a hit resulting in a precision shot that I may allocate? The order in my book tells me all his shots are precision shots, so any hit is resolved exactly like a character would if he scored a hit that results in a precision shot.

The special rules section lists special rules, the title of each paragraph happens to be the name of the special rule, but in other areas of the book this will not necessarily be the case. Unless shooting at artillery is a special rule as well?

**Kommissar Kel**

ItsPug wrote:
The order in my book tells me all his shots are precision shots, so any hit is resolved exactly like a character would if he scored a hit that results in a precision shot.

No. It doesn't.

The order in your book says that all the models have the precision shots special rule.

Huge difference.

ItsPug wrote:
The special rules section lists special rules, the title of each paragraph happens to be the name of the special rule, but in other areas of the book this will not necessarily be the case. Unless shooting at artillery is a special rule as well?

Shooting at artillery is a special rule, it is rules that are specific to... well, shooting at artillery.

P.S: I really do not know why people keep bringing up other rules and items that are worded entirely differently.
This is like saying necron warriors get everliving because everliving is a form of or similar enough to RP.

**Detharin**

I am not even sure why there is a question. Seems straight forward.

What do Precision Shots do? HIts from Precision Shots are allocated by the firing models controller. I see no question about this.

How can you gain the Precision Shots rule in the AM codex?
1. Be of type (Character or Independent Character) AND roll a six on a to hit roll. It is clearly stated that when a character rolls a Six they Gain the rule Precision Shots.
2. Purchase a piece of Wargear available to Lord Commissars.
3. Be given the Take Aim order AND pass a leadership test.

The argument that you would need to roll a 6 to make these shots precision shots fails. They are already Precision Shots. Best keep anything important safely tucked away as between ignores cover, or Precision shots you cant hide. This is going to make lascannon HWS a beautiful thing for character sniping.

**Trickstick**

After some thought, I think that my argument for needing sixes would be based on the fact that the order states "all models in the unit have the Precision Shot special rule". It does not state that the shots are precision shots, but the models have the rule. The argument that "They are already precision shots" fails, as this is not what the order states. So, if the models have this (albeit ambiguous) Precision Shot rule, how do they get their shots to be Precision Shots. The only mechanic we are presented with is to roll 6s.

**coredump**

Ding Ding... and we have a winner....

Precision Shot special rule doesn't mean all hits are precision shots...

**Brachiaraidos**

coredump wrote:
Ding Ding... and we have a winner....

Precision Shot special rule doesn't mean all hits are precision shots...

That's because there is no Precision shot special rule. We have to extrapolate because there's no precision Shot special rule in the BRB or AM dex, which technically makes it undefined and meaningless. RAW taken to exact degrees mean that Precison Shot special rule does nothing until an FAQ defines it, or corrects the wording somehow. There is a subheading about them in the character section of the BRB. Which we can read and assess as the only official source mentioning Precison Shots, though not as a special rule.

"Precision shots
If any of your character's shots roll 6 to hit, these are precision shots."

There is zero ambiguity here. Precision shots isn't a special rule because this subheading is not in the special rules section, so the rolling 6's to hit is never a part of it. Because mere moments later what we do have is a definition of what a precision shot IS, and the rules for resolving it follow. Now, in the AM codex, we have two separate listings of things which give precision shot. Both of them are currently worded the same way- Precision Shot special rule. Once it crops up in "Take Aim!", and the other time it is listed as a special rule for the Emperor's Benediction bolt pistol.

If we want to play with RAI, and give the Precision Shot special rule a meaning so it's not undefined, then it applies to both of these cases, because they have the same wording. They are the same rule, they do the same thing, which just leaves the question of what does it do.

If it allows 6's to hit as Precision Shots, then again, the rule does literally nothing 50% of the time. The Benediction can only be taken on characters, so they would already have it. GW isn't going to list rules that do nothing for no reason. If GW intended this rule to be a rule at all, and it is the same in both cases, it has to do something in both cases. The only remaining option is that GW want both to allow guard to place every shot.

>RAW means it doesn't exist.
>Any basic extrapolation has to conclude that, as written, the only viable option is that every shot is allocated.
> RAI can be whatever you like, it's not important anyway.

There's a case to be made about common sense for Take Aim meaning to be one thing and the benediction another, even though they have the same entry, and what that may or may not be down to in terms of editing errors or what have you. But it's all conjecture until an FAQ.

**Fragile**

There is a precision rule as laid out on 63. It typically only applies to characters. Take Aim simply allows it to be applied to non characters. Any 6's that are rolled would be precision hits.

**Brachiaraidos**

Fragile wrote:
There is a precision rule as laid out on 63. It typically only applies to characters. Take Aim simply allows it to be applied to non characters. Any 6's that are rolled would be precision hits.

No. It's not a special rule. There's a subheading explaining how characters and precision shots interact, and there is a explanation of what a precision shot is.

The special rule section of the BRB, ans special rules explained in Codices, are complete collections of official special rules. Precision Shot is in neither of these. It has rules, but i's not a special rule.

And the 'Oh it's a character only thing' is also bunk. Go read the sniper rifle entry. It also gets precision shots on rolls of 6's. It also references page 63 for a description on what that precision shot is; not a special rule, just a way of allocating hits, and generated by snipers and characters.

**Fragile**

Brachiaraidos wrote:
Fragile wrote:
There is a precision rule as laid out on 63. It typically only applies to characters. Take Aim simply allows it to be applied to non characters. Any 6's that are rolled would be precision hits.

No. It's not a special rule. There's a subheading explaining how characters and precision shots interact, and there is a explanation of what a precision shot is.

The special rule section of the BRB, ans special rules explained in Codices, are complete collections of official special rules. Precision Shot is in neither of these. It has rules, but i's not a special rule.

And the 'Oh it's a character only thing' is also bunk. Go read the sniper rifle entry. It also gets precision shots on rolls of 6's. It also references page 63 for a description on what that precision shot is; not a special rule, just a way of allocating hits, and generated by snipers and characters.

You obviously missed the "typically" in that sentence. But..

pg 32. Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.

I believe the wound allocation rules clearly show that Precision shots/wounds do break the main rules.

pg 32. Most of the more commonly used special rules in Warhammer 40,000 are listed here, but this is by no means an exhaustive list.

It does not have to be in that section to be a special rule.

**Brachiaraidos**

Fragile wrote:

You obviously missed the "typically" in that sentence. But..

pg 32. Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.

I believe the wound allocation rules clearly show that Precision shots/wounds do break the main rules.

pg 32. Most of the more commonly used special rules in Warhammer 40,000 are listed here, but this is by no means an exhaustive list.

It does not have to be in that section to be a special rule.

If you keep reading that same paragraph- "Many Troops have their own unique Special Rules, which are laid out in their Codex." If there is a special rule not listed in that BRB list, you consult the codex.

The codex has no listing of Precision shot's rules, only that it is a special rule.

Ergo point still stands. It's a special rule with no current ruleset. RAW it doesn't exist.

**Fragile**

Yes many have their own. But as PS is a special rule and it is laid out in the BRB, there is no need to repeat it in the Codex. Much like is it not repeated in Eldar or SM codex, both of which have units with PS in them.

**Brachiaraidos**

Fragile wrote:
Yes many have their own. But as PS is a special rule and it is laid out in the BRB, there is no need to repeat it in the Codex. Much like is it not repeated in Eldar or SM codex, both of which have units with PS in them.

Only it's not laid out in any scenario as a special rule until the AM dex. It's always 'can make precision shots' or as a part of sniper. It's laid out as a type of shot, it's laid out for how characters and snipers generate precision shots, but it's not a special rule.

If it WERE a special rule, many things for a different. For a start, it would be in the special rule list. Characters would get it as a special rule, and snipers would get the 'Rending, pinning and precision shot special rule' rather than just rending and pinning.

There is no rule set for a Precision Shot special rule in any book, period.

**Fragile**

Brachiaraidos wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Yes many have their own. But as PS is a special rule and it is laid out in the BRB, there is no need to repeat it in the Codex. Much like is it not repeated in Eldar or SM codex, both of which have units with PS in them.

Only it's not laid out in any scenario as a special rule until the AM dex. It's always 'can make precision shots' or as a part of sniper. It's laid out as a type of shot, it's laid out for how characters and snipers generate precision shots, but it's not a special rule.

If it WERE a special rule, many things for a different. For a start, it would be in the special rule list. Characters would get it as a special rule, and snipers would get the 'Rending, pinning and precision shot special rule' rather than just rending and pinning.

There is no rule set for a Precision Shot special rule in any book, period.

And that is your failure to understand. It is a rule that breaks the main rules in the book. It is by definition a special rule. It is explained in the character section of the rule book, because it is typically only used by characters. Your asking for everything to be in between pgs 32 to 43. That is not how it works. Special rules with narrow scope are usually placed within the section that needs them. Hard to Hit, Tank Shock, Skybourne, are just a few. They definitely special rules, just placed where they would typically be encountered, FMCs, Tanks, Jump units etc..

**Brachiaraidos**

Fragile wrote:
And that is your failure to understand. It is a rule that breaks the main rules in the book. It is by definition a special rule. It is explained in the character section of the rule book, because it is typically only used by characters. Your asking for everything to be in between pgs 32 to 43. That is not how it works. Special rules with narrow scope are usually placed within the section that needs them. Hard to Hit, Tank Shock, Skybourne, are just a few. They definitely special rules, just placed where they would typically be encountered, FMCs, Tanks, Jump units etc..

They're unique, they're rules, but they're not Special Rules. There's an important distinction in terminology.

Tank Shock is a type of tank movement with associated rules, and part of the main rules. Not a special rule.
Hard to Hit is an inherent trait of Flyers and Flying monstrous creatures and does not break the main rules, it is part of them. Not a special rule.
Skyborne is an inherent part of jump pack troops, and a part of the main rules. Not a special rule.
Precision shots on characters rolling 6's is an inherent part of character rules, and part of the main rules. Not a special rule.

You can't blanket term anything into special rule when, within the BRB, it has a definite meaning and we have a comprehensive answer to what is and isn't.

To further explain; You never see Tank Shock in the 'Special rule' listings for Heavy tanks. Because it isn't. *Thunderblitz, however, is a special rule which means that a Tank Shocking Super Heavy gets a different Tank Shock table, and IS listed.* Note also that Skyborne and Hard to hit never appear in the special rule listings of their relevant units.

*EDIT: Possibly. Having written that, I'm not convinced from memory that even the Super Heavy Vehicle traits are special rules, and may also just be part of the main rule set. I'll check that later.

**OuroborosTriumphant**

ItsPug wrote:
all of the Vindicare's shots are precision shots

Not actually true. What Vindicares get is slightly different. Most importantly, if a Precision Shot is allocated to a Character or Independent Character, it can be Look Out Sir!-ed. Wounds allocated via Deadshot cannot. Less importantly, while Snap Shots can never be Precision Shots, any Snap Shots a Vindicare successfully hits with would still benefit from Deadshot.

**Lungpickle**

The order is precision shots on a six. Next item. The book is not broken just interpretations.

**Fragile**

Brachiaraidos wrote:
Fragile wrote:
And that is your failure to understand. It is a rule that breaks the main rules in the book. It is by definition a special rule. It is explained in the character section of the rule book, because it is typically only used by characters. Your asking for everything to be in between pgs 32 to 43. That is not how it works. Special rules with narrow scope are usually placed within the section that needs them. Hard to Hit, Tank Shock, Skybourne, are just a few. They definitely special rules, just placed where they would typically be encountered, FMCs, Tanks, Jump units etc..

They're unique, they're rules, but they're not Special Rules. There's an important distinction in terminology.

Tank Shock is a type of tank movement with associated rules, and part of the main rules. Not a special rule.
Hard to Hit is an inherent trait of Flyers and Flying monstrous creatures and does not break the main rules, it is part of them. Not a special rule.
Skyborne is an inherent part of jump pack troops, and a part of the main rules. Not a special rule.
Precision shots on characters rolling 6's is an inherent part of character rules, and part of the main rules. Not a special rule.

You can't blanket term anything into special rule when, within the BRB, it has a definite meaning and we have a comprehensive answer to what is and isn't.

To further explain; You never see Tank Shock in the 'Special rule' listings for Heavy tanks. Because it isn't. *Thunderblitz, however, is a special rule which means that a Tank Shocking Super Heavy gets a different Tank Shock table, and IS listed.* Note also that Skyborne and Hard to hit never appear in the special rule listings of their relevant units.

*EDIT: Possibly. Having written that, I'm not convinced from memory that even the Super Heavy Vehicle traits are special rules, and may also just be part of the main rule set. I'll check that later.

So your claiming that none of those rules break the main rulebook rules? That any model can be hard to hit, that any vehicle can tank shock, and that every unit can use the Skybourne rules?

Special rule is defined as I quoted above. You just seem to think that it is something in that one section of the rulebook, which is where you are wrong

**Brachiaraidos**

Fragile wrote:

So your claiming that none of those rules break the main rulebook rules? That any model can be hard to hit, that any vehicle can tank shock, and that every unit can use the Skybourne rules?

Special rule is defined as I quoted above. You just seem to think that it is something in that one section of the rulebook, which is where you are wrong

In what way does anything I say infer any of that. Take your Straw Man down.

You're deliberately trying to give words a meaning they do not have. If a model is a Zooming Flyer, part of being a zooming Flyer is that you are Hard to Hit. That's a part of basic rules. It's a part of 40k. In what way does that 'break' a basic rule, when it is one? In what way could any unit that's not a swooping flier get Skyborne when it only applies to said monstrous creatures? How the hell does any of that obscure, obscene sentence make any sense?

Allow me to put this as simply as I can, and hope you can maybe understand it this way.

There's a special rule heading in unit entries for a reason. Every special rule a unit has, is listed in there. Do you see Tank Shock or Hard to Hit in them? No. Because it's not a special rule, it's a standard rule.

**Happyjew**

OuroborosTriumphant wrote:
ItsPug wrote:
all of the Vindicare's shots are precision shots

Not actually true. What Vindicares get is slightly different. Most importantly, if a Precision Shot is allocated to a Character or Independent Character, it can be Look Out Sir!-ed. Wounds allocated via Deadshot cannot. Less importantly, while Snap Shots can never be Precision Shots, any Snap Shots a Vindicare successfully hits with would still benefit from Deadshot.

Wounds from a Vindicare can be LOS'd. And then the Vindicare player promptly chooses which model (including the character) the Wound is re-allocated to.

**OuroborosTriumphant**

Happyjew wrote:
OuroborosTriumphant wrote:
ItsPug wrote:
all of the Vindicare's shots are precision shots

Not actually true. What Vindicares get is slightly different. Most importantly, if a Precision Shot is allocated to a Character or Independent Character, it can be Look Out Sir!-ed. Wounds allocated via Deadshot cannot. Less importantly, while Snap Shots can never be Precision Shots, any Snap Shots a Vindicare successfully hits with would still benefit from Deadshot.

Wounds from a Vindicare can be LOS'd. And then the Vindicare player promptly chooses which model (including the character) the Wound is re-allocated to.

Point conceded. This fact is mostly useful for trolling.

"You can Look Out Sir it..."
"Awesome."
"But then I get to move it back.
"I hate you."