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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 15:55:48
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Via Pew:
When Murray Hastie returned to New York in January 2006 after two tours of duty in Iraq, he hoped to use the GI Bill to complete his college education.
Denied admission to two state colleges, Hastie came upon DeVry University. The day after he filled out an online request for information, a representative from the for-profit university visited him at his home and encouraged him to enroll in a biomedical informatics program in New Jersey.
DeVry said he would receive in-state tuition and that his GI benefits would cover all of his educational costs, and helped him apply for loans, Hastie said.
Three semesters into the program, Hastie was struggling. He was being taught to write computer code, not preparing to work in a research lab, which is what he had been told he would be doing. Meanwhile, he was increasingly worried about his mounting debt. By the time he decided to cut his losses and move back home, Hastie had racked up more than $90,000 in student loans—with no degree to show for it.
Inundated by stories such as Hastie’s, a number of states are working to protect college students as consumers, even as the federal government plays a more important role in regulating both for-profit colleges and the student loan industry.
Thirty-two states are now working together under the leadership of Kentucky Attorney General Jack Conway to investigate potential abuses in the for-profit college industry, which saw enrollment more than triple between 1998 and 2008, according to the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau.
One reason for the concern is the amount of taxpayer dollars involved: Some for-profit colleges receive 90 percent or more of their revenue from the federal and/or state governments in the form of student aid.
“While some for-profit schools offer quality training and legitimate diplomas, we have found that this industry often markets subpar programs to veterans and low-income students who depend on federal aid,” Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley said. “When students don’t receive the training they sign up for, or default on their loans, it not only greatly impacts their future but it also impacts taxpayers who have backed these loans in the first place.”
Coakley’s office is investigating DeVry, as are Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan and the Federal Trade Commission.
“We’re approaching them with a view toward transparency and an interest in demonstrating the compliant nature of our practices,” said Ernest Gibble, a spokesman for DeVry, on the investigations. DeVry declined to comment on Hastie’s particular situation, citing federal privacy restrictions.
Coakley also has taken aim at for-profit Corinthian Colleges and Corinthian Schools, with more than 100 schools nationwide. In a lawsuit filed earlier this month, she alleges Corinthian used deceptive marketing and high-pressure tactics to persuade students to enroll and take out high-interest subprime loans.
According to the complaint, Corinthian misrepresented the job placement rate of its graduates and misled students about the salaries they could expect after completing their programs. The lawsuit also alleges that Corinthian encouraged students to take out subprime loans with interest rates of up to 18 percent.
In disputing the allegations, Corinthian said Coakley’s office “disregards substantial, independent evidence that our two schools in Massachusetts have a strong record of offering students a quality education and treating them honestly and fairly.”
Last October, California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris also filed a lawsuit against Corinthian alleging it engaged in false and predatory advertising and misrepresented job placement rates.
“There’s no doubt that more needs to be done by both states and the federal government as well as the accreditors to protect both students’ and taxpayers’ interests,” said Pauline Abernathy, vice president of The Institute for College Access and Success, a nonprofit based in Oakland, Calif., which aims to make higher education more available and affordable.
Educating for Profit
In January, 13 states issued subpoenas to four for-profit colleges, including Corinthian, over concerns about possible misrepresentations to students about financing, recruitment practices and graduates’ employment rates.
Also in January, Coakley’s office in Massachusetts held hearings on proposed regulations for for-profit colleges and occupational schools. The rules would require schools to disclose accurate information about tuition and fees along with placement statistics and graduation rates; prohibit them from using high-pressure sales tactics such as repeated phone calls and text messages; and bar them from calling recruitment personnel “counselors” or “advisers.”
In February, the new federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, created by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act, filed suit against another for-profit college chain, ITT Educational Services, which operates about 150 institutions in nearly 40 states, alleging predatory student lending. The lawsuit was the bureau’s first public enforcement action against a for-profit college.
And last year, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman won a $10.25 million settlement with the for-profit Career Education Corporation over inflated job placement rates.
Previously, Conway led an effort involving attorneys general in 20 states, which resulted in a $2.5 million settlement in 2012 with QuinStreet, which operated a website, www.GIBill.com, that aimed to recruit veterans to attend for-profit colleges. The states alleged the website gave the false impression that it was affiliated with the federal government. QuinStreet settled, but denied wrongdoing. Under the settlement, the domain name was transferred to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.
At the federal level, U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois and Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa, both Democrats, introduced legislation earlier this month designed to improve coordination among federal agencies overseeing for-profit colleges. Their proposal would establish a committee with representatives from federal entities including the Department of Education, Department of Justice, Securities and Exchange Commission and CFPB.
Growing Debt
Student loan debt is now the largest form of consumer debt outside of mortgages, eclipsing car loans and credit cards, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Nationwide, about 38 million people owe nearly $1.2 trillion in student loans, more than double from $550 billion in late 2007. Of those, 7 million borrowers are in default.
Private student loans often lack the consumer protections of federal or federally-backed loans, such as flexible repayment plans and unemployment deferments, which means students can be left with overwhelming debt and, in some cases, little education to show for it. According to the Department of Education, 72 percent of for-profit college programs produced graduates who earned less, on average, than high school dropouts, compared to 32 percent of public non-profit programs.
In some cases, for-profit colleges provide subprime loans to students who are unlikely to be able to repay the debt. While students at for-profit colleges make up 13 percent of college students, they account for 31 percent of student loans and about half of loan defaults.
“Unfortunately, for many of these borrowers, they are unable to complete their educations or the school closes and they are left with no jobs and a mountain of debt that bankruptcy experts tell us is almost impossible to discharge,” Conway said in 2012 congressional testimony.
The Department of Education in March proposed new “gainful employment” rules which would require for-profit colleges that benefit from federal student aid to meet certain standards relating to student debt and income.
California was the first state in the nation to require for-profit colleges to meet standards beyond those required by the federal government for its grants and loans, passing a law in 2011 prohibiting schools with high borrowing and default rates from receiving Cal Grant funds. In 2012, the state further tightened standards for institutions, eliminating 154 schools from receiving Cal Grant funds.
In January, New York state’s Student Protection Unit issued subpoenas to 13 student debt relief companies as part of its investigation into whether the companies might be charging improper fees to enroll students in debt relief programs that are already available free through the federal government.
A New Life
Today, Hastie, 31, is on his way to a new life – he completed an associate’s degree at a community college in New York, got married and had a baby. He is working in a deli and volunteering as an EMT and a firefighter after taking a civil service exam to become a firefighter.
But Hastie worries about the day, in August, when he will have to begin paying back his loans.
“I don’t even want to think about it,” Hastie said.
States with the highest amount of average debt for students graduating with loans in 2012
Delaware: $33,649
New Hampshire: $32,698
Pennsylvania: $31,675
Minnesota: $31,497
Rhode Island: $31,156
Iowa: $29,456
Maine: $29,352
New Jersey: $29,287
Ohio: $29,037
Michigan: $28,840
Source: The Institute for College Access and Success
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:00:11
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Good god finally. It's about time they did something about the ponzi scheme that is DeVry (lets check out ITT Tech while we're at it).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:01:43
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Those debts are insane. I got my university education provided for me by the state, and I would never have been able to afford it otherwise.
That said, Biomedical Infomatics DOES involve a large amount of computer coding. It's becoming a more and more essential part of biology research and is probably a better bet for employment (and more transferable in many ways) than traditional lab skills.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:05:46
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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LordofHats wrote:Good god finally. It's about time they did something about the ponzi scheme that is DeVry (lets check out ITT Tech while we're at it).
Not just for-profit-schools either... All of them.
A serious student-loan fix would change this incentive...
First: federal/state aid ought to be capped (maybe indexed by region or national avg)... which would make it harder for schools to raise tuition at will.
Second: schools that receive subsidized loan money should be left on the hook for a percentage of the loan balance if students default. This would encourage the schools to be more active with the students in planning their education and assist in finding jobs.
Those two would help reign in this madness a bit.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:14:27
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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I'm more hoping DeVry and ITT Tech get trapped and burned to the ground. Going to school with those nit wits is like balling your money into a basketball and throwing it from the far end of the court and praying it goes in. The degrees are often worth less than the paper their own, the teaching staff isn't qualified to teach and often not even knowledgeable in the subject matter, and they lie about the recognition of their insitutions. DeVry and ITT Tech claim to be accredited but if you watch their ads it says that their credit hours are non-transferable (that's an oxymoron).
These schools (these two are the big ones among a few others) have made a business stealing peoples money and giving them worthless degrees. Seen that episode of American Dad where Francine gets a medical degree by being driven ten miles off the coast and handed a piece of paper? It's pretty much that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/17 16:14:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:17:11
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I did a couple classes with DeVry and ran.
I'm doing my online education via Western Governor's University and I'm much happier.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:23:54
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Oh, I wasn't aware the university was disreputable. That seems pretty bad- there should be more regulation in the sector. Good that they're pursuing them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:27:43
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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d-usa wrote:I did a couple classes with DeVry and ran.
I'm doing my online education via Western Governor's University and I'm much happier.
\
WGU is a great school.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:28:14
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Hey me too D-usa, Started April 1 on my BA in interdisciplinary studies k-8. My AA came from University of Phoenix online and I can tell the difference between the 2 for sure.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:33:03
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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It's amazing what a difference online education can make when it is student focused instead of money focused...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:37:01
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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d-usa wrote:It's amazing what a difference online education can make when it is student focused instead of money focused...
I feel the same way in taking night classes vs attending class during the day.
Most of my teachers had day job in the industry that were instrumental on conveying things...
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0019/08/17 16:41:25
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Old Sourpuss
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I wish I only had 29k in debt
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:42:55
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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No kidding... I'll be paying well after I retire.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:46:40
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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The cost of education in the states is just completely staggering.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:50:20
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Da Boss wrote:The cost of education in the states is just completely staggering.
It's not just the education part... we're at the point where there's more full-time salaried administrators than teachers.
Plus, as a double  , there's stories like this:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Media/Slideshow/2012/08/28/10-Public-Colleges-With-the-Most-Luxurious-Dorms
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:53:36
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I know the culture is different in the states, but if it had cost that much to get educated there's no way I would have. I'd have gone to work on a fishing trawler or something instead.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:56:58
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Old Sourpuss
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I'm wishing I had lol. My job is simple as feth, but requires a bachelor's degree...
I know we have several people in my office with just high school diplomas...
Makes me regret going to college.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 16:57:47
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Fixture of Dakka
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I attribute my current success to not taking crazy loans and choosing a cheaper state school and working to pay off courses as I went. Most of the younger people I know are defaulting like crazy on college loans because they feel it is 'unfair' to work like an adult and be broke.
And 30k? that is *LOW*. I know a crap ton of people who graduated during the economic downturn and thought it would be a smart way to avoid facing the real world and taking a job 'beneath them' was to go back for more loans and get a masters degree before they had a shred of work experience... and not in fields which you need a masters degree. Now they have way more debt and no increased earning potential and zero experience.
Edit: And dorms are a scam too. I slept on a screened in porch in a zero degree sleeping bag in an area which was at freezing during winter. It was like camping. Got me through 4 semesters with almost no rent. That would have easily been an extra 12k in lodging and such if I had lived on campus. You can basically live like a hobo and hang out in the library and on-campus facilities a lot. I would have slept in a army barracks system during school if they offered it for cheap enough. Personal space while in college is over-rated.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/17 17:04:33
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 17:00:01
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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With education being more and more required to get your foot even in the door, the fact that we charge so much for it is ridiculous.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 17:14:55
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I suppose with socialised healthcare off the cards in the US, socialised higher education is totally out?
Man.
I feel really sorry for you guys.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 17:33:10
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Da Boss wrote:I suppose with socialised healthcare off the cards in the US, socialised higher education is totally out?
Man.
I feel really sorry for you guys.
I still stand by my prediction that once the ACA (Obamacare) is repealed (or at least nueter'ed), there would be more acceptance to the idea of a Canadian/German style healthcare system.
But, the high education front? Yea...we're fethed.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 18:14:14
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
I don't even KNOW anymore.
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Good, I hope DeVry takes a bloody nose in this (I got a BS in '07 from them). They are the school that aggressively charges for everything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 19:30:06
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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90k from a garbage "university" like DeVry? Wow. Didn't even know that was possible.
gak isn't going to change with student lending until you can discharge student loans. And as then us government is one of the primary lenders to students, that isn't happening any time soon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 20:43:28
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Water-Caste Negotiator
orem, Utah
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Im currently in school, and initially I thought 30k sounded like a insane amount that I wouldn't come close to. aaaannd then i realized mine will be closer to 40k  really hoping for some scholarships
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are you going to keep talking about it, or do something already? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 20:55:49
Subject: Re:States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Kid_Kyoto
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The price of US higher education is amusing, given the (mostly true) stereotype of how education is not valued highly in the US.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 21:08:32
Subject: Re:States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Water-Caste Negotiator
orem, Utah
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daedalus wrote:The price of US higher education is amusing, given the (mostly true) stereotype of how education is not valued highly in the US.
is that why its expensive? because its not valued so its a rare commodity?
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are you going to keep talking about it, or do something already? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 21:15:36
Subject: States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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whembly wrote: LordofHats wrote:Good god finally. It's about time they did something about the ponzi scheme that is DeVry (lets check out ITT Tech while we're at it).
Not just for-profit-schools either... All of them.
A serious student-loan fix would change this incentive...
First: federal/state aid ought to be capped (maybe indexed by region or national avg)... which would make it harder for schools to raise tuition at will.
Second: schools that receive subsidized loan money should be left on the hook for a percentage of the loan balance if students default. This would encourage the schools to be more active with the students in planning their education and assist in finding jobs.
Those two would help reign in this madness a bit.
Oh god... I'm agreeing with Whembly. What is this strange feeling I'm feeling?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 21:17:44
Subject: Re:States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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soundwave591 wrote: daedalus wrote:The price of US higher education is amusing, given the (mostly true) stereotype of how education is not valued highly in the US.
is that why its expensive? because its not valued so its a rare commodity?
That is kind of interesting. I was told something by a teacher of mine that I will never forget. He basically said if you want to do anything interesting and productive in the engineering field, even a BS degree isn't enough. You need at least a MS. Apparently the design team that builds rear view mirrors for GM has about 1 MS holder on it and the rest are all PhDs. I do not understand why you need that much in the way of qualifications to design a completely non structural non aerodynamic part.
So glad that I found a place to slot in that is specialized enough they actually train you themselves to a MS level (and you're on salary while doing it).
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Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote:Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 21:31:29
Subject: Re:States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
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Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/04/17 21:46:19
Subject: Re:States Crack Down on For-Profit Colleges, Student Loan Industry
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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soundwave591 wrote: daedalus wrote:The price of US higher education is amusing, given the (mostly true) stereotype of how education is not valued highly in the US.
is that why its expensive? because its not valued so its a rare commodity?
No. It's expensive because you can't discharge student loans like any other debt.
Federally backed guaranteed debt + "everyone must go to college myth" + unscrupulous lending = colleges can cost whatever universities want.
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