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Orlanth wrote:Star Citizen has been far better managed in terms of fund raising.
From a business point of view, that is absolutely true. As a gamer, its "aggressive hype" was what actually drove me to Elite, though.
Don't get me wrong, I think SC has great potential, and in the end I'm just lucky that the genre has been revitalised by these two giants. And I am quite sure that I'll at least take a look at SC once it's out. But it just felt more like a big PR stunt rather than a game in development, and I have more trust in Elite's slow, gradual expansion rather than SC's attempt to deliver everything at once by splitting development between a dozen different studios as if the game was some big puzzle. The good thing is that SC has raised so much cash that I'm sure they will ultimately be able to deliver something good, in spite of what I'd consider inevitable waste and chaos. I mean, with a budget like that, they could theoretically start over completely multiple times, and they have wisely chosen not to commit to a deadline.
I also like how not only both games have committed to a different development style, however, but also different design aesthetics and different gameplay styles. This should ensure that there is (a) hopefully less rivalry between their fans and (b) people who enjoy space games get to pick from a greater spectrum of variety. Just like I foresee a continued future for Eve Online, because I expect that it too will be able to maintain its niche due to its focus on social features and communities.
I agree with your assessment, down to qualifing what specifically Roberts has done better to earn so much more backing. Hype is the best way to describe it.
My main problem is that the hype absorbs revenue as it generated revenue, and with big devel;opment funding comes big development costs. I just hope Roberts is as good a manager as he is a fund raiser, not game producer, manager. His management skills will be critical to the project now. One of the great truths of project development is that workload increases to fit the budget, tenfold funding doesn't necessarily mean a tenfold productivity. However expectations will be tenfold because people have already got their wallets out.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Roberts has done games before, with decent results. *If* he can keep the budget reasonable *cough*WCIV*cough*, then hopefully we should get a good game. And since SC is an MMO with a single player campaign attached, and Roberts's past issues have revolved around stuff that's more specific to single-player games, hopefully he can pull off a good product.
We'll see, though.
My brothers have the dogfighting module for SC, and seem to like it. I haven't been able to check it out (or this, for that matter) due to a need to replace my computer. So I can't comment on it personally.
From what I understood, Freelancer was originally planned to be an MMO - but then again, according to that article those features were cut at the behest of Microsoft, and only because the development team had already overshot both its budget and the schedule, neither of which should really be a problem for SC. As you say: wait and see.
In regards to the dogfighting: according to the videos on the web, and from how I've seen SC players describe it, its flight model seems to be more open and thus slightly more newtonian (like a mixture of Elite's Flight Assist Off and On, with the newtonian physics of the former but utomated spin stabilisation of the latter), though this has led to what people call "turreting" and gameplay that supposedly feels like "point and click", whereas Elite's default flight model (Flight Assist On) feels more like atmospheric flight and thus somewhat less realistic - a concession the developer felt was necessary to preserve fun, as they already foresaw the "turreting" issue SC has been going through.
I had thought that both games would stick to their flight models, which would further distinguish between the two games (as I'm sure each model has its share of fans), but lately I've seen comments that SC supposedly moved closer to ED's model in response to the criticism. Not sure how to feel about that - on the one hand it means less of a difference between both games, but on the other I have to admit that I like the feeling of ED's flight model a lot, and that I'd welcome if SC would feel similar whenever I get to try it out a couple years from now. Plus, if we are honest, "atmospheric flight" is quite simply what we are used to from all those sci-fi movies.
Back to Elite ... someone on reddit found a nice pop-culture reference hidden among the thousands of inhabited systems.
"I have seen things you people wouldn't believe ..."
On the Imperial Eagle, is there anything to drop for an interdictor device, or do you think assassinations are going to be beyond your capability with one of the starting ships? A single one would net me 5x the money I currently have.
For making money, my ship isn't really suited to hauling or mining.
When buying a new ship, do you move your hardpoints over or are they sold off with your old ship/lost?
I have to say, having had Lynata exalt my posts on FFG, I fully trust her judgement so seeing a positive review on this game, together with the chance to score some free paint schemes, has had me jumping in on the pre-purchase!
Haha, I kinda wish exalts would be visible on dakka, too - it'd be nice to (a) have the person you exalted know you did and (b) know which dakkanauts are sharing your line of thinking. Anyways, hope you like the game! Did you already try the tutorials?
chaos0xomega wrote:Those c-beams man, they sure do glitter in the dark
Daba wrote:On the Imperial Eagle, is there anything to drop for an interdictor device, or do you think assassinations are going to be beyond your capability with one of the starting ships? A single one would net me 5x the money I currently have.
You should have sufficient internal compartment space to slot an FSD interdictor, at least if you don't have stuff like a discovery scanner or something like that.
That being said, I've heard the assassination missions being quite challenging in that you may be faced with an Anaconda or something like that. Personally, I wouldn't take on something bigger than a Cobra or an Asp, at least if I'm flying alone. It may depend on just how much the bounty is, though; I'd expect smaller ones to be less challenging. If I ever see one for about 40-60k, I'm gonna try it, but those 180k ones just sound a tad too heavy for me. I tend to catch my bounties by patrolling a star system, scanning other ships and checking for fugitives, then pulling them out of supercruise.
Daba wrote:For making money, my ship isn't really suited to hauling or mining.
Courier jobs can pay nicely!
Daba wrote:When buying a new ship, do you move your hardpoints over or are they sold off with your old ship/lost?
I'm fairly sure everything gets sold. Personally, I'd wish for there to be an option to store equipment in a garage of sorts so you can either install it in a new craft or keep it for later, but so far that's only a suggestion on the forums.
I've started them, just completed the 1V2 - not sure my setup is quite right yet though - the yaw rate on my mouse seems low (hard to track targets off to left/right) - maybe I need to go get a joystick again...
eddieazrael wrote:the yaw rate on my mouse seems low (hard to track targets off to left/right)
I think that's intentional. If you have a target breaking off to the sides, you need to roll and then pitch after them. Yawing is really just there for minor corrections (usually just shooting/docking/scooping/thatsortofstuff), whereas roll is for changing course entirely.
For what it's worth, it does look better that way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 09:16:11
Well have pre-ordered the game from the website. Played through the tutorial combat missions which were a lot of fun.
So, I assume now I need to wait for December 16th, at which point I will be able to download the full game?
Also, another question if I may; While the combat was fun, I primarily like the idea of playing as a kind of trader/transporter, and more of a low tempo affair while enjoying some of the gorgeous-looking graphics. Will it be possible to play the game like this, and if so do you get structured 'missions' as such (as part of the main game) or can you just buy and sell whatever? Is it possible to hire NPCs to protect me (launch drones, as in EVE?), or is that even necessary?
Pacific wrote: Well have pre-ordered the game from the website. Played through the tutorial combat missions which were a lot of fun.
So, I assume now I need to wait for December 16th, at which point I will be able to download the full game?
Also, another question if I may; While the combat was fun, I primarily like the idea of playing as a kind of trader/transporter, and more of a low tempo affair while enjoying some of the gorgeous-looking graphics. Will it be possible to play the game like this, and if so do you get structured 'missions' as such (as part of the main game) or can you just buy and sell whatever? Is it possible to hire NPCs to protect me (launch drones, as in EVE?), or is that even necessary?
As I understand it
Yes it's very doable to take on that role
You can do both, have it structured by the game or play the market
Not yet, but larger transports can install turrets
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
Pacific wrote:Also, another question if I may; While the combat was fun, I primarily like the idea of playing as a kind of trader/transporter, and more of a low tempo affair while enjoying some of the gorgeous-looking graphics.
Absolutely! I've done so myself for a part of the Beta, and it is a very relaxing way of playing the game - excluding those moments where a pirate attempts to steal your cargo, of course. There's a number of dedicated freighters in Elite, and you can do both cargo missions (get X from A to B) as well as buy stuff using your own budget, and try to make a profit by selling it at another port. In face, some blogs and website have taken to calling Elite "Space Truck Simulator 2014", either charmingly or because they thought it was boring. Personally, I liked doing civvie stuff with a Hauler for a change .. http://www.pcgamer.com/the-pleasure-of-space-trucking-in-elite-dangerous/ http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/11/19/the-elitist-part-five-hunting-dogs/
Pacific wrote:Is it possible to hire NPCs to protect me (launch drones, as in EVE?), or is that even necessary?
And yeah, I guess now you can only wait - fortunately, launch is only ~2 weeks away, and in the mean time maybe you can have fun browsing the reddit or something like that.
Originally I had thought that the tutorials people can play would include the non-combat stuff that has been added lately, but I guess they only released the "old" combat tutorial .. oh well.
eddieazrael wrote:So, flying is old-school dogfighting in SPAACE then! Makes no sense from a reality basis, but rule of cool always wins! (And that's fine with me.)
Yeah, that's exactly what the devs said, too. They're very big on adding realism wherever possibly, but at the same time they said that gameplay must come first. They tried full newtonian flight in Elite II, and it just wasn't as much fun, seeing as it resulted in a combat model that more resembled jousting than anything else.
Daba wrote:What's your favourite weapon configs?
Not that I can afford them though...
For my Eagle .. two burst lasers on the belly, and a multicannon topside. I'm currently trying to find one of those variants, such as focused burst lasers, or a high impact m-cannon that has a lower RoF but more punch behind each bullet.
The basic models of these weapons are fairly affordable, though, I think you could get the whole set for about 50k.
What ship and which weapons do you currently have?
I have the Eagle with two burst lasers and a multicannon on top
I'm thinking of what to go with when I upgrade. I might skip the Viper and go straight to Cobra. I seem to be doing mostly exploring, and I don't really want to sell my scanner as it's how I make the most money at the moment. Maybe the cargo hold, but I do make a little money from that, though I don't have enough space for most delivery missions.
I keep getting jumped by people who don't have a bounty on their head. They open fire , because we're in an anarchy zone with no civilisation and die for it, but it still costs me in ammo.
Daba wrote:I have the Eagle with two burst lasers and a multicannon on top
Oh by the way, according to people on reddit, equipment you sell at a station stays there - which would be one way of swapping stuff from one ship into another, I guess.
Daba wrote:I'm thinking of what to go with when I upgrade. I might skip the Viper and go straight to Cobra. I seem to be doing mostly exploring, and I don't really want to sell my scanner as it's how I make the most money at the moment. Maybe the cargo hold, but I do make a little money from that, though I don't have enough space for most delivery missions.
Sounds good. The Cobra is definitely more suited to exploration than the Viper; the latter has a default jump range even lower than the Eagle iirc. I'd argue you could make more money flying a Viper than an Eagle due to the increased loadout and/or cargo space, not to mention it isn't nearly as flimsy, but if you want to get a Cobra ASAP then sticking with the Eagle might indeed be smarter.
I'd definitely keep at least 2-4 tons of cargo space, though. In my experience, a lot of transport missions are just about 2-3 tons of stuff .. plus you'd hate to come across a canister of gold or palladium in deep space (either from an USS or some ship you shot at) and not have the room to pick it up.
On that note: I pulled 4 units of "trade data" out of a wreck I came across in Asellus Primus. Sold 'em for 3k on the black market.
Daba wrote:I keep getting jumped by people who don't have a bounty on their head. They open fire , because we're in an anarchy zone with no civilisation and die for it, but it still costs me in ammo.
Yeah, m-cannon ammo can be quite expensive, depending on where you buy it. I'd probably suggest either just using lasers here, or jumping out - depending on how tough the target is.
Sweet. I thought they'd only air it in the UK or something. Not sure the game needs that much exposure - as I don't believe it is suitable for every kind of gamer - but on the other hand, I suppose it's not a bad thing if it reaches those who may be genuinely interested in its take on space sims, yet haven't heard of it so far.
By the way, patch 1.05 is out. Aside from the bugfixes, I really like the bit about a pilot's actions now generating GalNet news posts. This should make the background sim a lot more transparent!
For some reason I'm really interested to play this game.
I haven't played any space sim (except some old star wars sim, i gave up on the docking tutorial) and I was wondering if this game has a huge learning curve?
How well does this game run? (i think the game uses ut engine so comparing it to something bl2 would be nice)
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
FPS with vehicles, yes but flying vehicles usually mean that I get in, take off, fly until I reach destination and then jump off (the vehicle usually doesn't survive the trip).
I did pass the flight school in gta:sa with all gold.
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
illuknisaa wrote:I haven't played any space sim (except some old star wars sim, i gave up on the docking tutorial) and I was wondering if this game has a huge learning curve?
I wouldn't say "huge", but the game is certainly a lot more complex than other contemporary products - both due to its increased depth, and unfortunately also flawed documentation. There are some tutorials that will teach you the basics, as well as an official PDF quick start guide, but many systems' functions and details are left unexplained and for yourself to discover, or to ask on the forums/reddit. This may all be adressed by a proper manual later on, though, but for now it can be a bit tricky. Anyone who managed to get used to EVE should have no problems with ED either, though, and you do not exactly need to know everything to have fun either.
Exact gameplay experience will depend on the individual gamer - I'm the type who enjoys to discover how things work by themselves, so I did not mind.
Flight mechanics are primarily "atmospheric" like, say, War Thunder, explained in the game as a Flight Assist mode which intentionally limits manoeuvrability to guarantee a more intuitive handling of the ship a la Star Wars X-Wings. You do have the option to turn Flight Assist off, however, for a more newtonian experience, allowing you to fly manoeuvres like the Star Furies in B5, with turning on your tail and shooting backwards whilst maintaining directional velocity. See here for an in-game example. Some pilots like Isinona get crazy skilled in this mode, and occasionally you may catch people trying to practice in the bowels of a rotating Coriolis-class station. Myself, I'm mostly flying with Assist On and only switch it off for quick turns, or when I'm feeling like drifting through space a little.
illuknisaa wrote:How well does this game run? (i think the game uses ut engine so comparing it to something bl2 would be nice)
Elite uses the in-house Cobra engine - the name is a reference to the famed Cobra starship from the Elite franchise, though I think the current version of the engine actually premièred in the studio's Zoo Tycoon game ... a hint at how well it might do at planetary environments later on?
As a consequence, however, this also means that (with the exception of Frontier's other games) there is nothing you could compare it to in this regard. However, personally I find the Cobra engine to be incredibly efficient when it comes to system resource allocation. My machine is now 3-4 years old, and whilst it is struggling with Dragon Age Inquisition (at least on higher settings), it runs Elite Dangerous like a charm.
It would be tricky to make any predictions for other PCs, of course. I assume you've already taken a look at the official system requirements on the website?
I loved Elite as a kid, I hope this is a worthy successor, it looks fething amazing of course, but sadly flashy graphics are no guarantee of quality, look at Hollywood!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
I have it on the Z key. Best check your options to make sure, though.
You should do that anyways because there's a ton of potentially useful buttons and settings in there.
mattyrm wrote:I loved Elite as a kid, I hope this is a worthy successor, it looks fething amazing of course, but sadly flashy graphics are no guarantee of quality, look at Hollywood!
Agreed!
So far I'm stoked, though. That being said, a number of features outlined in the design documents are still missing. Personally, I'm not really worried about that, as the studio has shown itself to be extremely productive over the Alpha and Beta phases, though. As long as they keep adding stuff, it'll only get better. But I can certainly understand people who wish to wait some more "on principle".
An area that is settled but marked as "Unknown" essentially just means that your ship's computer doesn't know it, not that it's unknown to humanity as a whole - or rather any of the big factions, as they collect data independently from one another. That being said, I was under the impression that they should always pay at least a token amount for the effort, so perhaps it could just be a bug. Maybe try again at a later time?
Right, I have enough money to buy a Viper, but is it worth it? I heard that they need a lot of work (upgrades bought) to come into their own, combined with a horrible stock jump distance and increased fuel costs I'll probably not be any more profitable than in my Eagle.
How much stuff do you need to make them worthwhile or shall I stick to the plan of skipping it? (especially as I found a place to upgrade my cargo capacity to 4T now, so I won't even get more of that on a Viper).
I went deeper into the Empire, but none of the locals trust me to do package runs for them here.
Hmm, depends on what you want to do with it. For bounty hunting, I'd say it would not be more profitable, but you would be more survivable. Unless you're a real good pilot with the Eagle.
The Viper is less manoeuvrable, but quite a bit faster and capable of carrying more and heavier weapons (although you really need a better power plant for this). Good Eagle pilots may be able to outmanoeuvre you, but that's part of the balance (and you could just boost away if things get hairy), and on the other hand you may be able to take on bounties that are harder to crack. Maybe even an Anaconda? Okay, that one's only recommendable if you're flying with friends, though. But a Python, perhaps. I've heard that even though they are slow to turn, their engines are super-powerful, so you may need a fast ship to keep up with them.
Spoiler:
I ... I want one of these. <3
But it should not be forgotten how the Viper offers more slots for equipment, too. For example, you could mount a Cargo Scanner in addition to the Warrant Scanner, to check if anyone is carrying illegal goods and thus discover smugglers, or alternatively an FSD Wake Scanner to enable you to pursue targets through hyperspace.
Also don't forget that it has 4 internal compartments compared to the Eagle's 3, so you could add an additional cargo rack, or perhaps a shield cell bank, or a field maintenance unit.
It's definitely a trade-up, albeit not mandatory for bounty hunters as the Eagle maintains its edge in agility. It depends on your play- or rather piloting style, and how exactly you want to make your credits.
[edit]
I think the dynamic background sim needs a few more templates for certain types of factions...
Makes no sense from a reality basis, but rule of cool always wins! (And that's fine with me.)
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points) 
