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2014/04/21 19:11:56
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Kommissar Kel wrote: But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Not necessarily, because there is no such thing as an Escalation game. The Escalation book adds new rules to the standard game, talking about Escalation games makes about as much sense as talking about Orks games, or "ruins give 4+ cover saves" games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/21 19:12:32
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/04/21 19:20:31
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I didn't say escalation Game, I said for Escalation(which is the rules that allow LoW choices).
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/21 20:12:45
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Doesn't that mean that it is pointing towards being Escalation legal even more? I know that there is the Apoc, and then the undefined ruling. I have emailed FW and don't have a response yet. It'll be interesting to here what they say.
Also, HIWPI, I am just playing it the way the OFFICIAL rules are written, and that makes me a cheater? Yes, it is underpriced and unfair to a point, but I don't think that just because I am taking advantage of a rule means I am a cheater.
Kommissar Kel wrote: But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Not necessarily, because there is no such thing as an Escalation game. The Escalation book adds new rules to the standard game, talking about Escalation games makes about as much sense as talking about Orks games, or "ruins give 4+ cover saves" games.
That is very true, Escalation is not another game type, but it is 40k itself now. I know that that could also be debated over, but please refrain as I would like to keep the thread specifically about the Stompa and rules in question.
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Not necessarily. Escalation is 40k. Why would they have to say that this model is for Warhammer 40k? It is obviously for 40k and since Escalation is a general part of 40k then that is why they are talking about the "other large scale battles". You could play escalation and have a LoW (Lord of War) and you opponent doesn't need to have one.
sirlynchmob wrote: To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion.
I know, I've mentioned that already.
What I was responding to was a HIWPI comment, not a RaW one.
You'll note I said I'm aware that RaW it is only +300
My response was to the post were he stated he would go with it anyway in a game, despite knowing it's wrong.
So RaW yes, +300
HIWPI: Flat out cheating.
I disagree with your conclusion that he's cheating though. He's playing by all the official rules.
labeling someone a cheater based on a email that only you have, is wrong.
Thank you. I don't see how I could be called a cheater just because it is a mistake in the official RaW. Its like saying, "Oh you play Tau and are ignoring my cover! Thats cheating!!" Just because it is a good RaW right now, does not mean I am a cheater for exploiting it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kommissar Kel wrote: I didn't say escalation Game, I said for Escalation(which is the rules that allow LoW choices).
Are you hinting that Escalation is something different from 40k?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/04/21 20:23:20
2014/04/21 20:43:02
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Doesn't that mean that it is pointing towards being Escalation legal even more? I know that there is the Apoc, and then the undefined ruling. I have emailed FW and don't have a response yet. It'll be interesting to here what they say.
Also, HIWPI, I am just playing it the way the OFFICIAL rules are written, and that makes me a cheater? Yes, it is underpriced and unfair to a point, but I don't think that just because I am taking advantage of a rule means I am a cheater.
No it does not point towards it being Escalation at all, for several reasons: 1) It does not state that you may make the exchange where escalation rules are being used. 2) It does not state that the exchange can be made making him a LoW Choice. 3) HQ and LoW choices are not the same thing, He is an HQ choice, even with the exchange in Apocalypse games(Yes Apoc formations can be HQs)
You are absolutely not following the RAW, The RAW is Apoc only(The or other large games means nothing at all)
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Not necessarily. Escalation is 40k. Why would they have to say that this model is for Warhammer 40k? It is obviously for 40k and since Escalation is a general part of 40k then that is why they are talking about the "other large scale battles". You could play escalation and have a LoW (Lord of War) and you opponent doesn't need to have one.
Escalation is a set of additional rules used in normal games. But hey that further cements that you have no RAW permission to make the exchange
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/21 20:44:01
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/21 21:43:48
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
sirlynchmob wrote: To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion.
I know, I've mentioned that already.
What I was responding to was a HIWPI comment, not a RaW one.
You'll note I said I'm aware that RaW it is only +300
My response was to the post were he stated he would go with it anyway in a game, despite knowing it's wrong.
So RaW yes, +300
HIWPI: Flat out cheating.
I disagree with your conclusion that he's cheating though. He's playing by all the official rules.
labeling someone a cheater based on a email that only you have, is wrong.
Thank you. I don't see how I could be called a cheater just because it is a mistake in the official RaW. Its like saying, "Oh you play Tau and are ignoring my cover! Thats cheating!!" Just because it is a good RaW right now, does not mean I am a cheater for exploiting it.
It's absolutley nothing like that case as you well know.
If GW released a statement saying that no Tau can Ignore cover, but you chose to ignore that (or you deliberately don't bother to confirm it in order to not loose a huge undeserved advantage), and try to enforce it against an opponent, THEN it would be similar.
It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400. You refuse to confirm the misprint, so you can claim RaW despite knowing it exists.
Cheating? Absolutly, no doubt at all.
I can only hope your opponent is aware of this exploit and calls you out on it.
I can understand it as a RaW debate, and obvious misprint that has been confirmed as a misprint by the authors. But to actually try and play it is the lowest form of Sportsmanship possible.
And since you're such a fan of RaW, I assume you'll be playing that models with helmets can't shoot?
And that D weapons have no way to allocate their damage?
2014/04/21 23:48:54
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Doesn't that mean that it is pointing towards being Escalation legal even more? I know that there is the Apoc, and then the undefined ruling. I have emailed FW and don't have a response yet. It'll be interesting to here what they say.
Also, HIWPI, I am just playing it the way the OFFICIAL rules are written, and that makes me a cheater? Yes, it is underpriced and unfair to a point, but I don't think that just because I am taking advantage of a rule means I am a cheater.
No it does not point towards it being Escalation at all, for several reasons:
1) It does not state that you may make the exchange where escalation rules are being used.
2) It does not state that the exchange can be made making him a LoW Choice.
3) HQ and LoW choices are not the same thing, He is an HQ choice, even with the exchange in Apocalypse games(Yes Apoc formations can be HQs)
You are absolutely not following the RAW, The RAW is Apoc only(The or other large games means nothing at all)
But if it meant escalation they would have said escalation; The Big Mek stompa itself is a LoW choice for Escalation in that very document.
Not necessarily. Escalation is 40k. Why would they have to say that this model is for Warhammer 40k? It is obviously for 40k and since Escalation is a general part of 40k then that is why they are talking about the "other large scale battles". You could play escalation and have a LoW (Lord of War) and you opponent doesn't need to have one.
Escalation is a set of additional rules used in normal games.
But hey that further cements that you have no RAW permission to make the exchange
Sorry, I forgot to address the cheater part to someone else. I know it wasn't you. Excuse me for the miscommunication.
sirlynchmob wrote: To be fair though, we don't accept emails from GW as proof of anything in a RAW discussion.
I know, I've mentioned that already.
What I was responding to was a HIWPI comment, not a RaW one.
You'll note I said I'm aware that RaW it is only +300
My response was to the post were he stated he would go with it anyway in a game, despite knowing it's wrong.
So RaW yes, +300
HIWPI: Flat out cheating.
I disagree with your conclusion that he's cheating though. He's playing by all the official rules.
labeling someone a cheater based on a email that only you have, is wrong.
Thank you. I don't see how I could be called a cheater just because it is a mistake in the official RaW. Its like saying, "Oh you play Tau and are ignoring my cover! Thats cheating!!" Just because it is a good RaW right now, does not mean I am a cheater for exploiting it.
It's absolutley nothing like that case as you well know.
If GW released a statement saying that no Tau can Ignore cover, but you chose to ignore that (or you deliberately don't bother to confirm it in order to not loose a huge undeserved advantage), and try to enforce it against an opponent, THEN it would be similar.
It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400. You refuse to confirm the misprint, so you can claim RaW despite knowing it exists.
Cheating? Absolutly, no doubt at all.
I can only hope your opponent is aware of this exploit and calls you out on it.
I can understand it as a RaW debate, and obvious misprint that has been confirmed as a misprint by the authors. But to actually try and play it is the lowest form of Sportsmanship possible.
And since you're such a fan of RaW, I assume you'll be playing that models with helmets can't shoot?
And that D weapons have no way to allocate their damage?
Ok, to be honest I am starting to not appreciate how many times you are going to call me a cheater. I don't understand why. Ok, its a misprint, then why haven't they issued an official update if they cared that much? I am not going to go off of a facebook post. Please link where that was said. It is a misprint that has not officially been noticed by the authors. Ok, they posted it on facebook. I don't know if thats true!? Additionally if it was THAT big of a deal to mention that its the "lowest form of sportsmanship possible" then I think that FW would have released an (official) statement by now. Plus, you haven't exactly posted anything to back your opinion up at all.
I have never heard of those other RaW, but I will look into how they were debunked too. Due to the way you are conveying your statements I am getting a very negative connotation to my opinion of the RaW. There are people that are for both sides, and I would appreciate it if we could keep this topic a little more friendly as you are the only one who is not doing so as much as the rest of the contributors. Thank you.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/21 23:58:05
2014/04/22 00:43:28
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
grendel083 wrote: It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400.
A Rhino is a 35 point model that you sometimes take for zero points (for an assault squad with no jump packs). The fact that a model costs X points in most circumstances does not mean that it can never cost some other amount of points if a special rule allows you to take it for that cost.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/04/22 05:32:19
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Commander_Farsight wrote: Ok, its a misprint, then why haven't they issued an official update if they cared that much?
As I said in my first post, email ForgeWorld. They respond very quickly to rules questions. You'll have your answer quickly. I've no idea why they haven't changed this, you'll have to ask them, not me.
As mentioned before, RaW it's +300. I've never stated different.
But there's a huge deference between Strict RaW and actual gameplay. If you play to the strict letter, many rules simply don't work and the game fails. It can also lead to a misprint granting a huge advantage. At what point is getting an extra +400pts fair on your opponent?
I apologise that my posts had a negative tone. But remember this game has at least two players, I can't imagine any player having fun game when their opponent has such a huge advantage due to a misprint. 400pts isn't a small amount.
grendel083 wrote: It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400.
A Rhino is a 35 point model that you sometimes take for zero points (for an assault squad with no jump packs). The fact that a model costs X points in most circumstances does not mean that it can never cost some other amount of points if a special rule allows you to take it for that cost.
Whilst I agree, there's a huge difference between a free Rhino and a half price Big Mek Stompa.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/22 05:33:31
2014/04/22 11:57:41
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Like the overload rule for Lifta-Droppa, the stompa-replacement can only be done in apoc. This is an explicit fix to the previous wording, which allowed to to bring Buzzgobs Stompa anywhere, even to killteam.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2014/04/22 15:05:29
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
grendel083 wrote: It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400.
A Rhino is a 35 point model that you sometimes take for zero points (for an assault squad with no jump packs). The fact that a model costs X points in most circumstances does not mean that it can never cost some other amount of points if a special rule allows you to take it for that cost.
Interesting, I didn't know that.
2014/04/22 15:09:56
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Usually Blood Angels that take advantage of this - for a while this was used to get a discount on razorbacks as well, in the first 5th edition iteration of marines spamming razorbacks.
2014/04/22 15:11:24
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Commander_Farsight wrote: Ok, its a misprint, then why haven't they issued an official update if they cared that much?
As I said in my first post, email ForgeWorld. They respond very quickly to rules questions. You'll have your answer quickly. I've no idea why they haven't changed this, you'll have to ask them, not me.
As mentioned before, RaW it's +300. I've never stated different.
But there's a huge deference between Strict RaW and actual gameplay. If you play to the strict letter, many rules simply don't work and the game fails. It can also lead to a misprint granting a huge advantage. At what point is getting an extra +400pts fair on your opponent?
I apologise that my posts had a negative tone. But remember this game has at least two players, I can't imagine any player having fun game when their opponent has such a huge advantage due to a misprint. 400pts isn't a small amount.
grendel083 wrote: It's an 800pt model, that you're trying to take for 400.
A Rhino is a 35 point model that you sometimes take for zero points (for an assault squad with no jump packs). The fact that a model costs X points in most circumstances does not mean that it can never cost some other amount of points if a special rule allows you to take it for that cost.
Whilst I agree, there's a huge difference between a free Rhino and a half price Big Mek Stompa.
There is a funny thing there. I did indeed email Forgeworld and I did receive the "thank you from emailing FW" autoreply, but since then (Sunday) I have not gotten anything. Today is their second work day then for a response as it was Easter Sunday. I usually get a very prompt response though...
Regarding the 400 points, in any other army than Orks I wouldn't care so much about it, but since you can take so many guys for so cheap, 400 points can get you a lot more Ork Boyz. I understand what you are saying about the flaws the game would have if everyone was so rigid. The thing that just keeps me thinking is that it says "and other large scale games" (or something to that tone.) Being that this came out after Escalation, my main question is wether they are referring to Escalation or not. I will send another email to them if they don't respond by today (Although they are a day ahead of me here in the USA).
Don't worry about it. I get that people get into the heat of a debate, just wanted to make sure that it doesn't become a "shouting" match of sorts.
The real question that we need answered here is the point cost snafu and if it is Escalation legal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/22 15:13:40
2014/04/22 15:25:38
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
2014/04/22 16:57:13
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
2014/04/22 17:39:10
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
There is a funny thing there. I did indeed email Forgeworld and I did receive the "thank you from emailing FW" autoreply, but since then (Sunday) I have not gotten anything. Today is their second work day then for a response as it was Easter Sunday. I usually get a very prompt response though...
actually this is their first work day - Easter Monday is a Bank holiday in the UK so they would have only been back in today
2014/04/22 17:49:49
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
2014/04/23 00:24:06
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
Ah, ok thank you. So that means tht with the rulings we know, it's Apoc legal, and anything over 2k, which could include an escalation game? That sounds a little sketchy to me, but what do other people think about this?
2014/04/23 00:37:39
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
Ah, ok thank you. So that means tht with the rulings we know, it's Apoc legal, and anything over 2k, which could include an escalation game? That sounds a little sketchy to me, but what do other people think about this?
For any game the points and expansions used should be agreed upon before hand.
so go ahead do a 2k apoc game with all books allowed.
or do a 400 point game where you agree to let the OP run just the stompa and see if you can take it out. That sounds like quite a narrative
2014/04/23 03:19:23
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
Ah, ok thank you. So that means tht with the rulings we know, it's Apoc legal, and anything over 2k, which could include an escalation game? That sounds a little sketchy to me, but what do other people think about this?
Since we are getting into "You and your opponents agree on" territory, I just want to point out to you again, that when you and your opponent agree that you can use buzzgob as a Stompa in a game where the escalation rules are being used: You still have a Lord of War slot available.
So in this case you can have exchanged Buzzgob as your HQ, and then a second Big Mek Stompa as your LoW, for 1230 points,m you now have 770 that you need to buy at least 2 units of troops(and technically you will need another HQ because you have to have a warlord and you currently have no eligible models).
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
2014/04/23 11:55:57
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Kommissar Kel wrote: Since we are getting into "You and your opponents agree on" territory, I just want to point out to you again, that when you and your opponent agree that you can use buzzgob as a Stompa in a game where the escalation rules are being used: You still have a Lord of War slot available.
So in this case you can have exchanged Buzzgob as your HQ, and then a second Big Mek Stompa as your LoW, for 1230 points,m you now have 770 that you need to buy at least 2 units of troops(and technically you will need another HQ because you have to have a warlord and you currently have no eligible models).
You missed one very important thing from the update:
When this option is selected, Buzzgob counts as a Lords of War choice and an army that includes him may not select another Lords of War choice.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2014/04/23 15:17:27
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Well, well, well. FW did respond to my email, and here is what they said.
Spoiler:
Hi James,
Thank you for your email. In answer to your questions:
1. We suggest Buzzgob's Kustom Stompa can be used in Apocalypse of other large scale games such as Escalation, any game type which allows super heavy vehicles.
2. Buzzgobs Kustom Stompa is a Lord of War Choice for Escalation as long as Buzz God is taken as a HQ choice.
3. Page 16 of the Ork Dread Mob army list shows additional Escalation Lord of War choices including the Big Mek Stompa.
4. You can not use Buzzgobs Kustom Stompa in games that do not allow for the use of Lords of War or Super Heavy Vehicles.
If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
Regards,
Forge World
So here is the breakdown:
Escalation: yes
2k games: not necessarily
LoW choices: interesting to not, all of the LoW choices on p.16 are for Escalation too
What it looks like to me is that there is a pretty darn broken rule here. I have sent a reply to this email to clarify the point, either +300 or +700. When I went to go look at the Facebook page for FW, it had been removed, so there is no evidence that an update, official or not. What do you guys think?
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
Ah, ok thank you. So that means tht with the rulings we know, it's Apoc legal, and anything over 2k, which could include an escalation game? That sounds a little sketchy to me, but what do other people think about this?
For any game the points and expansions used should be agreed upon before hand.
so go ahead do a 2k apoc game with all books allowed.
or do a 400 point game where you agree to let the OP run just the stompa and see if you can take it out. That sounds like quite a narrative
Haha, sounds funny, not fun at 400 points. Here is the game right now:
osirisx69 wrote: In a small way the BRB did define "Large Scale" games when it talks about how "at 2000 points the FOC becomes a real hindrance on these larger scaled games" I am paraphrasing of course.
Ok, and how does that relate to the topic? Not trying to be critical, but that only talks about FOC not what a large scale battle IS itself.
It was given a general premise of what a large scale game is. Anything over 2k
Ah, ok thank you. So that means tht with the rulings we know, it's Apoc legal, and anything over 2k, which could include an escalation game? That sounds a little sketchy to me, but what do other people think about this?
Since we are getting into "You and your opponents agree on" territory, I just want to point out to you again, that when you and your opponent agree that you can use buzzgob as a Stompa in a game where the escalation rules are being used: You still have a Lord of War slot available.
So in this case you can have exchanged Buzzgob as your HQ, and then a second Big Mek Stompa as your LoW, for 1230 points,m you now have 770 that you need to buy at least 2 units of troops(and technically you will need another HQ because you have to have a warlord and you currently have no eligible models).
I think that this has changed now for any game that is under 2k. Interesting thought though. that would be mean to take 2 Stompas.
Kommissar Kel wrote: Since we are getting into "You and your opponents agree on" territory, I just want to point out to you again, that when you and your opponent agree that you can use buzzgob as a Stompa in a game where the escalation rules are being used: You still have a Lord of War slot available.
So in this case you can have exchanged Buzzgob as your HQ, and then a second Big Mek Stompa as your LoW, for 1230 points,m you now have 770 that you need to buy at least 2 units of troops(and technically you will need another HQ because you have to have a warlord and you currently have no eligible models).
You missed one very important thing from the update:
When this option is selected, Buzzgob counts as a Lords of War choice and an army that includes him may not select another Lords of War choice.
Thanks for the catch!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/04/23 15:20:15
2014/04/23 15:20:33
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I have never even heard of this 700+ point rule so I would take it with a lot of salt. I find it very interesting that (especially on these boards) there will be posters condemning and brutalizing someone for posting an email that supports there opinion and yet when it fits a different need they don't mind using there emails as evidence of there point.
Either way FW did email you back so YMMV but it looks like you got a good answer?
2014/04/23 16:34:51
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I think you are massively overestimating the capabilities of a stompa. While getting a full-fledged stompa at basically half the price is nice, it's hardly game-breaking in escalation. You just have about 300 additional points to spend on units which are largely unable to do anything about the opposing super-heavy, knights or even monstrous creatures.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/23 16:39:13
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2014/04/23 17:41:03
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
osirisx69 wrote: I have never even heard of this 700+ point rule so I would take it with a lot of salt. I find it very interesting that (especially on these boards) there will be posters condemning and brutalizing someone for posting an email that supports there opinion and yet when it fits a different need they don't mind using there emails as evidence of there point.
Either way FW did email you back so YMMV but it looks like you got a good answer?
I agree, but here is the response due to points that I received from them, it kinda shoots the whole idea in the foot.
Spoiler:
Hi there.
Further to our last reply the extra cost of 300 points is actually added to the basic cost of the Big Mek Stompa (for a total of 1130 plus any other upgrades).
If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.
Regards,
Forge World
So you are paying 300 points to make it scoring, and it can fix itself. Meh, I don't think its worth it. What do you think?
Also, best Ork Lord of War, I will create a new thread on this later, but tell me what you think it is and why!
I think you are massively overestimating the capabilities of a stompa. While getting a full-fledged stompa at basically half the price is nice, it's hardly game-breaking in escalation. You just have about 300 additional points to spend on units which are largely unable to do anything about the opposing super-heavy, knights or even monstrous creatures.
It was a bad joke
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/23 17:41:17
2014/04/23 20:50:18
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
That is honestly the perfect ending to this quandry. I'm rather happy FW Stomped(Hehe, see what I did there?) this into the ground.
Farseer Faenyin 7,100 pts Yme-Loc Eldar(Apoc Included) / 5,700 pts (Non-Apoc) Record for 6th Edition- Eldar: 25-4-2
Record for 7th Edition -
Eldar: 0-0-0 (Yes, I feel it is that bad)
Battlefleet Gothic: 2,750 pts of Craftworld Eldar
X-wing(Focusing on Imperials): CR90, 6 TIE Fighters, 4 TIE Interceptors, TIE Bomber, TIE Advanced, 4 X-wings, 3 A-wings, 3 B-wings, Y-wing, Z-95
Battletech: Battlion and Command Lance of 3025 Mechs(painted as 21st Rim Worlds)
2014/04/23 23:34:11
Subject: Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
Farseer Faenyin wrote: That is honestly the perfect ending to this quandry. I'm rather happy FW Stomped(Hehe, see what I did there?) this into the ground.
2014/04/28 01:57:54
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
I'm glad I found this thread. Something seemed seriously screwed up with getting a stompa for only 300 extra points. A few points though. One kinda silly; the others are more serious response to some of the arguments.
The silly one:
if you take Buzzgob's Kustom Stompa, he becomes a LoW choice. Is he still an HQ choice then? Does anyone know of any units / models that occupy multiple slots on the FOC simultaneously? Assuming Buzzgob does transition from an HQ to an LoW, would you then need an additional HQ just to field your army? Similarly, how would it work with a LoW being the warlord?
Now the more serious points:
Apocalypse was play tested with as few as 3000 points. That's not much more than many Eternal War games - especially if you hit 2000 points and get a second primary detachment. Pursuant to the section on "Bigger Games" (p.110 mini rule book), you also receive an additional allied detachment, an additional fortification and according to the consensus of another thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/591941.page a second LoW.
In a 2000 point Eternal War Campaign you take two primary detachments each with:
HQ One Big Mek (35pts)
Elites One squad of 5 Lootas with 3 meks (75pts)
Troops Two squads of 10 Boyz (60pts each)
LoW One Stompa
And watch you opponent cry - so long as he doesn't bring any flyers. This comes to exactly 2000 points and gives each Stompa four meks to make repair rolls. Even though it's only a 2000 point list, would it be considered a "large scale battles (sic)" considering I managed two squeeze two Stompas into it?
2014/04/29 16:59:03
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
OomieCrusha wrote: I'm glad I found this thread. Something seemed seriously screwed up with getting a stompa for only 300 extra points. A few points though. One kinda silly; the others are more serious response to some of the arguments.
The silly one:
if you take Buzzgob's Kustom Stompa, he becomes a LoW choice. Is he still an HQ choice then? Does anyone know of any units / models that occupy multiple slots on the FOC simultaneously? Assuming Buzzgob does transition from an HQ to an LoW, would you then need an additional HQ just to field your army? Similarly, how would it work with a LoW being the warlord?
Now the more serious points:
Apocalypse was play tested with as few as 3000 points. That's not much more than many Eternal War games - especially if you hit 2000 points and get a second primary detachment. Pursuant to the section on "Bigger Games" (p.110 mini rule book), you also receive an additional allied detachment, an additional fortification and according to the consensus of another thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/591941.page a second LoW.
In a 2000 point Eternal War Campaign you take two primary detachments each with:
HQ One Big Mek (35pts)
Elites One squad of 5 Lootas with 3 meks (75pts)
Troops Two squads of 10 Boyz (60pts each)
LoW One Stompa
And watch you opponent cry - so long as he doesn't bring any flyers. This comes to exactly 2000 points and gives each Stompa four meks to make repair rolls. Even though it's only a 2000 point list, would it be considered a "large scale battles (sic)" considering I managed two squeeze two Stompas into it?
Anything over 1999 is generally considered a large scale battle. There is even a sentence in the rule book that says something to the effect.
2015/03/16 17:08:24
Subject: Re:Ork Dredmob Buzzgob's 400 point Stompa, How can this work?!
i emailed FW yesterday and asked if the stompa cost +300 still and they said yes......i asked how to apply it all to a normal game of 40k and they said to count it as a lord of war option..... Dont know if that helps put people at ease
Because all the current rules and 
Farseer Faenyin 
7,100 pts Yme-Loc Eldar(Apoc Included) / 5,700 pts (Non-Apoc) 
