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Now I know it seems a bit early but i think from what we know it's safe to say that Wood Elves have a lot of new options to discuss and I personally want to hear first impressions of these new units as and when we hear about them first ourselves. For example I will post a few of the rules we know: Wood Elves have access to both High and Dark Magic AS WELL as all 8 Rule Book lores. WOW. We just went from the book with access to 3 lores to the book with access to the most! How the signatures will work is up for debate as it's unlikely we will get 4 signature spells, but still from what we know we have access to 2 great lores!

Other Rules include Elf-Wide Always strike first, i for one have been using ETC rulings for quite a while and i can say this makes Wild Riders and War Dancers viable and quite deadly. Tree Spirit Ward Save is becoming a true one, but is now only a 6+. This is quite a big nerf as i have gotten quite accustomed to making last second 5+ saves on my treeman to save him from Cannon Balls, Treekin might also take a hit as they are our best anvils. Hawkeye grant's re-rolls of 1's in shooting and we are rumoured for ALL of our shooting to be strength 4 at short range, this makes fast cav brutally effective now, 18 inch march with no penalty followed by strength 4 shot's that hit on 3's re-rolling 1's sounds great. High Magic seems very helpful. as does Shadow. Apothesis will help keep the Treemen up and running, Walk Between Worlds seems built for a 6 strong unit of Treekin and no one can dispute how good withering is for a shooting heavy army.

So, what are our first impressions?

Didn't the "leaked" pages in the News thread turn out to be an elaborate fake?

They where, my facts come from the white dwarf pages. They advertise the Wood Elf Magic Cards, as well as they include an Elf Character with Always Strike First, so i was assuming that was an army wide thing due to how they are giving it to all Elves.

Judging from the character, are all wood elves gonna have stubborn, or is the new guy just another version of korhil rulewise, and only he has stubborn? Cos they don't seem to have a personal elven prowess rule.

I don't think all of them would have Stubborn, that'd be mighty powerful and would just make everyone field big blocks that cannot be met in close combat. It might just be a character that has a special ability similar to the Crown of Command.

I really, really hope that GW does not break with the Wood Elf concept of being a skirmish-heavy, movement-relying army. I do hope for them to get lots of special abilites that let them, for example, move faster through terrain, allow them to shoot better even when having moved etc. Give them the ability to be a super-annoying hit-and-run army and this might just be the first GW thing I'd buy for almost a year. Second-hand, of course. But I'll get the army book! From an online retailer.

Having access to more lores is a good thing, I really want to experiment with a heavens and high magic council that would play to WE strengths in the movement phase by restricting enemy movement and increasing our own, things like walk between worlds, fiery convocation, chain lightning and comet will really help us in that regard.

I don't think dark magic ill do a lot for us, but if the feel of our current rules carries over to the new ones, we will weirdly enough get better synergy out of it then DE do.

High Magic will do lovely things for us, we've always had trouble dealing with enemy super buffed units, now we can, thanks to drain magic.

I can't wait for the new book though, i'll probably spend the first few days doing a tactical breakdown of the book, maybe tmarichards will come out of hiding again? Now, I have to learn how to use the Battlescribe catalogue editor.

From the pictures I've seen it looks like the treeman front is the wide edge of a monster base. If so, that'll put the treeman at a disadvantage when attacking great weapon hordes, for instance.

I wouldn't attack those up-front anyway though, but if he hits a flank, he can lay down some serious hurt. War machines though.

Were the old bases square?

IF the width of the base is doubled, but the length of the base remains the same, it is neutral vs cannons in your front arc, worse vs cannons in your flank, worse vs anything that shoots like a stone thrower.

You take the same amount of attacks if something flanks you, you take more attacks if something is in your front or rear.

Any advantage to a wider than previous front arc?

Yes, the old bases are square, that being said, it looks like a chariot base turned side on in the picture, which would make it 100x50 rather than 50x100.

 Son of Landuin wrote:
Judging from the character, are all wood elves gonna have stubborn, or is the new guy just another version of korhil rulewise, and only he has stubborn? Cos they don't seem to have a personal elven prowess rule.

I think since the special character doesn't have a bow, he might not have the archery type prowess that the Wood Elves are rumored to have.

Having an expensive Flammable monster with only a 6+ ward seems like a really bad idea.
ASF makes wild riders and blade dancers significantly better, thanks to the re-rolls to hit.
Access to all lores of magic doesn't open up a lot of option.

If all wood elf bows are S4 at short range, I'd actually consider lore of fire on a few wizards, and mount the whole army for massed shooting/evasion. You could march 18" and shoot at 15" for S4 shots, and toss out multiple fireballs (kindle fire attribute helping) to clear off enemy chaff/soft targets; and then use your speed to avoid combat. It is a lot less damage output, but a greater ability to choose what is getting hit, and the army is a lot harder to catch.

Good post. Being flammable still is a big problem in 8th given that flaming attacks / spells / etc. are quite easy and cheap to get; being a giant target doesn't help much either.

I do hope their archers have a longer range than just generic short range as that would greatly help them avoiding enemies and preserving their unique 7th-play style of "Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee". Or something.

I'd say the new lores give us a lot of options. Metal in particular gives us an answer to 1+ saves we simply don't have, and Arabian Blades is very nice for any unit. Just imagine it at short range? A unit of 15 Glade Guard hitting on 2's re-rolling 1's at strength 4 armour piercing, even Chaos Warriors would be scared of that.

Shadow will always be helpful for Elves but I am giddy about access to High Magic, Hand of Glory pushes our BS in ridiculous levels while Apotheosis will work wonders for keeping our Treemen up and running. Dark Magic synargises quite well with us, Shroud of Darkness being the big one as our Fast Cav can get really close to use it and it can really, really screw up armies such as Empire or Orks. Doombolt will always be a great chaff cleaner and word of pain will swing combats in our favour OR work with Chillwind to reduce enemy shooting.

It seems the new woodies will be very reliant on their new magical mastery.

Treekin have seen a massive point drop of 20pts! While they did lose a pip of strength and a ward save downgrade, at least it can be taken vs magical attacks. I don't believe they are the hammers they used to be, but they will make darn good anvils. 45pts for 3 T5 4+/6++ is pretty darn good, taking a unit of 9 is now the same cost as a unit of 6 used to be meaning you can effectively run a Treehorde for cheap. With the new lores they could synargise well with these guys, but i stick by beasts being the best for Wissan's Wildform.

So, is this a nerf to you, or just a move in the diagonal direction?

At S4 they really don't bring anything worth writing home about, they'll probably just sit on the shelf now.

Are they still Skirmishers? If yes, the shelf it is until 9th.

Still? They aren't skirmishers at present.

I'm still hoping for some more new units. There are stag-riding elves in the new art, and that had been rumoured. So, hopefully that will come to pass, and give us some monstrous infantry?

It's hard not knowing the actual army-wide rules yet, but I am just as excited as anyone about this. I do think that this will be a "rain of ruin from afar" type army still, with lots of shooting and an increased use of magic (as pointed out), but having some durable 3-wound treekin for less appeals to me.

I just wonder at the apparent loss of the "tree-surfing" ability that made the army so interesting and different before. As the only army that could manipulate the battlefield (along with the ability to place that extra small woods piece), that was always a significant factor in a game. So, a more level playing field, but I hope that at least WE units can walk through woods with no negative effects or something.

Yeah, the fact that Dryads and such might occasionally take wounds from angry trees was stupid.
...but so was the ability to put down a little forest. I mean, if the table is a desert or a dwarfen mine or whatever...it makes no sense.

But a spell to move and/or create forests? Yes please. And that's coming from someone who hates playing against the Wood Elf style.

Interesting change on the Lores. I'm not sure how having both High and Dark Magic works fluff-wise, but hey. I don't think those lores are the best news so far. At the moment, a Lvl4 Shadow Mage supporting a shooting list looks to be nasty with those shooting bonuses, with a Lvl1 on Metal to deal with those pesky 1+ saves.

It'll be interesting to see what they do with the magic items/sprites. Wood Elves had some great upgrades in their old book.

Well, fluffwise the Lore of Athel Loren was basically High Magic in another name, but I'm curious as to how Dark Magic will fit, maybe its to represent the capriciousness and duality of their nature?

Wood elves embrace all of their nature, both the good and the bad, so having both was natural, as all elves have the capacity to be heartlessly cruel and selflessly sacrificial.

I think the Treekin do bring something different to Wood Elves, the big one being durability. Toughness 5 is big, sure any unit with Great Weapons will cleave through them, but against the majority of hordes they will be wounded on 5's or 6's, then get a 4+ or 5+ save then a 6+ ward. I think these will make a great anvil and a great home for a Stag Rider Noble! I believe Treekin are the only unit that grant him a LOS! And if you give him the Dawn Spear (if we still have it...) then he could be a massive help at reducing wounds.

I just have a massive urge to have a Treehorde of 18 Treekin, 3 ranks of 6. They attack in two ranks because monstrous infantry and the third due to horde, that's a lot of very buffable, very durable attacks there!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I think the Treekin do bring something different to Wood Elves, the big one being durability. Toughness 5 is big, sure any unit with Great Weapons will cleave through them, but against the majority of hordes they will be wounded on 5's or 6's, then get a 4+ or 5+ save then a 6+ ward. I think these will make a great anvil and a great home for a Stag Rider Noble! I believe Treekin are the only unit that grant him a LOS! And if you give him the Dawn Spear (if we still have it...) then he could be a massive help at reducing wounds.

I just have a massive urge to have a Treehorde of 18 Treekin, 3 ranks of 6. They attack in two ranks because monstrous infantry and the third due to horde, that's a lot of very buffable, very durable attacks there!

Aren't Treekin MI, and the stag rider MC, thus no LOS?

 Krellnus wrote:
Well, fluffwise the Lore of Athel Loren was basically High Magic in another name, but I'm curious as to how Dark Magic will fit, maybe its to represent the capriciousness and duality of their nature?

Hello all. I'm just looking at the new White Dwarf, where it says in regards to the new magic cards for the army:

"Though they appear wild and uncivilised alongside the Elves of Ulthuan or even Naggaroth, the Wood Elves of Athel Loren are no less the masters of magic. The most powerful Wood Elf mages are the Spellweavers, who have access to the Lores of High and Dark Magic, in addition to the eight Lores found in the Warhammer rulebook."

It also makes clear that the WE have "unique Lore Attributes for each" (I assume only of the High and Dark varieties), which is interesting.

So, the fluff seems solid enough--they're just the same race who have chosen to live in Athel Loren, and have aspects of both other varieties of elves.

Anyway, I have another question regarding the "Forest Strider" rule that I can now see IS part of Durthu's new rules. It confers "Forest Strider" which means that cavalry models moving through that type of terrain do not suffer dangerous terrain tests, correct? But what else? Is it conceivable that, as @Warpsolution said, "Dryads and such might occasionally take wounds from angry trees"? If so, that is dumb. Maybe a clarification will be made in the new book? Any clarification from you guys would be very welcome.


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Warpsolution wrote:
Yeah, the fact that Dryads and such might occasionally take wounds from angry trees was stupid.
...but so was the ability to put down a little forest. I mean, if the table is a desert or a dwarfen mine or whatever...it makes no sense.

But a spell to move and/or create forests? Yes please. And that's coming from someone who hates playing against the Wood Elf style.

In response to this, I again quote from the current White Dwarf when discussing how to shield Durthu from enemy cannons and such:

"...try and interpose terrain, (such as the free wood all Wood Elf Armies get)..."

So, looks like we still get to "create woods in the desert and Dwarf mines! (Which I grant you is pretty weird).

All WE units have forest strider atm. They never take dangerous terrain tests in forests but at present are affected by blood forests and wildwoods.

Thanks @Krellnus, for the clarification. I do understand the rule better now, but in terms of fluff, it doesn't make sense to me that this would occur to a "Forest Strider." But then the "forest appears in the middle of Dwarfen hold" doesn't either I guess....gotta suspend our disbelief and lose ourselves in the universe.

Anyway, here is a bit more from the current White Dwarf about the Light & Dark Magic fluff, in case any of you don't have the issue.

“THE CONTRAST OF DARK AND LIGHT

One of the most fascinating aspects of the new Wood Elf rules is the fact that their Spellweavers have access to the Lores of High and Dark Magic. Mat Ward has the following to say about it. “Dark Magic comes into the courts of Athel Loren towards the end of the Season of Vengeance,” Mat explains. “Initially it leads to some profound problems, especially for Ariel, but in time it becomes a real boon to the Wood Elves.

“Whereas the High Elves fear the consequences of dabbling with the forces that exist within Dark Magic, and the Dark Elves are too arrogant to believe any consequences could ever effect them, the Wood Elves have a slightly more pragmatic view,” Mat says. “The Wood Elves act expecting consequences, and so all aspects of magic are taught in their courts, and often under the tutelage of Ariel herself. This prevents the overweening arrogance of their cousins, and frees them to understand both dark and light.

“What this means for Wood Elf players is that Spellweavers can reflect both sides of the Wood Elf pysche, dark and light,” Mat says. “The power to heal, and to[…]”

Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “White Dwarf Issue 13: 26 April 2014.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/wxc0Z.l


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Also, there is a photo in the new White Dwarf of some WE army, and you can see a blurry image of new Stag riders and a clear look (though partial) of some new Eternal Guard (maybe?---They have interesting weapons, kind of glaive-like axes). So, I guess I can confirm that those exist.

Anybody have any idea of how to attach a screenshot to one of these threads?

The pics are already in the news and rumour thread.

Codex:Tree has been nerfed