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Only 6.5/7th edition rumor that has any real backing to it is Battle Brothers is going byebye, since the cover art says something along the lines of "There Can Be No Allies" or so. I doubt they'd remove allies as a whole, but battle brothers has got to go.

No issues with allies of convenience and desperate allies, but battle brothers break the game in almost every possible combination. And this is coming from a Tau player stating i hate it lol, when my battle brothers are among the most broken (taudar anyone?)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Only 6.5/7th edition rumor that has any real backing to it is Battle Brothers is going byebye, since the cover art says something along the lines of "There Can Be No Allies" or so. I doubt they'd remove allies as a whole, but battle brothers has got to go.

No issues with allies of convenience and desperate allies, but battle brothers break the game in almost every possible combination. And this is coming from a Tau player stating i hate it lol, when my battle brothers are among the most broken (taudar anyone?)

WMG: 7e makes everyone battle brothers with everyone, thus balancing the game.

That this also results in a fortuned and runes of battle buffed Be'lakor with the grimoire of true names going up against Skyblight swarm Flyrants throwing down endurance onto a Screamer Star is of little consequence.

Murrdox wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:

Lootas are a prime example of making a unit Orky but still being viable, although it is frustrating to roll a couple of 1 and 2s in a row, rolling two or three rounds of 3 shots is awesome!

Yeah see that's a prime example of an Orky randomness that I don't find appealing AT ALL. Lootas are priced too expensive to only be firing 1 shot per turn with a BS of 5. Your Lootas are only going to get a chance to fire a maximum of 7 times over the course of a game. It is MUCH more likely they will only get to fire 3-4 times if they are lucky. How is the randomness "Fun" when it's game turn 1 and 2, where you need to get the most mileage out of your Lootas to do well... and you roll 1 or 2 for the first 1-3 turns?

Even when you roll WELL with Lootas you only get 3 shots. Those 3 shots are made at BS5, just about everything gets an Armor save against them, they don't ignore cover... etc. I call that getting your points worth out of them. I don't call it awesome.

Face it, Lootas aren't awesome. They're only awesome because they're the only long-ranged fire power that Orks have to lean on. They're an unstable, rickety crutch on which all our heavy shooting has to lean. And that's just not fun.

Thiiiiis.

I think if your going to make a unit random, make the variance lean towards being more powerful than other factions equivalents. When autocannons are putting out 2 shots each (on higher BS no less) a dude dropping 1-3 is a straight up disadvantage.

To get Orks on the same level as AM, they're going to need a lot of changes. Horde just won't work with the number of blasts and anti-infantry firepower any IG list can put out now

Was anyone even playing horde though? Its so tedious. It could be auto-win and I'd never bother.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Only 6.5/7th edition rumor that has any real backing to it is Battle Brothers is going byebye, since the cover art says something along the lines of "There Can Be No Allies" or so. I doubt they'd remove allies as a whole, but battle brothers has got to go.

No issues with allies of convenience and desperate allies, but battle brothers break the game in almost every possible combination. And this is coming from a Tau player stating i hate it lol, when my battle brothers are among the most broken (taudar anyone?)

Woah, sweet. Link for that cover art by any chance?

 Dakkamite wrote:

To get Orks on the same level as AM, they're going to need a lot of changes. Horde just won't work with the number of blasts and anti-infantry firepower any IG list can put out now

Was anyone even playing horde though? Its so tedious. It could be auto-win and I'd never bother.

I play Horde lists.

But my double living tide Dual FOC Tyranid list is apparently forever banned from tournaments until shub niggurath swallows the sun.

(I'd field more but then I think they'd upgrade it to "when Azathoth awakens".)

Horde lists arent bad if you dont sit there for 10-15 minutes pondering your next move like a lot of people tend to do. Its not that they arent effective, theyre just annoying since you have to keep moving and moving fast or you draw the game out.
My last game i was playing 2500pt Tau vs Chaos/Demons. I doubled my opponent in numbers, and he wasnt thin either lol. He was shocked i was able to play so fast and effectively, i told him its the Ork in me being used to moving 100 boyz in a 1000pt game lol

Also that cover art WAS on the 40k website, it wasnt even announced what it was for it was just a new cover available for pre-purchase the 24th. Not seeing it now for some reason.

TableTopJosh wrote:
You seem to be forgeting something, its a fourth edition gun and for a long time lootas were rewlly good. Then helldrakes, tau and eldar came along and started the ignore cover.trend. lootas are all about averages ,its a certain randomness were at least the worst outcome is not negative. I think youre a being a little over the top, orks will never be a twin linked, point and shoot army and lootas putting out a possible 30 str 7 shots for a 150 points is not bad at all. If you dont think its fun maybe orks are the not the amry for you, go olay eldar and reroll all you shots, oh wait all yhe rerolling, ignore cover nonsense is bad for the game...

No, you misunderstand me. Back in 4th and 5th, Lootas were pretty great. But in 4th and 5th, Lootas were a "Fire Support" sort of unit. You used them to try to pop those Transports in the first couple turns. Maybe you used them to cause some glancing wounds to a Dreadnaught and try to Stun or Shake it.

But then 6th Edition came along and just hit Orks with the beat-stick.... hard. Here's just a few of the highlights. There's a lot more than this.

- Killa Kans and Dreads : useless
- Our PowerKlaws : Challenged in every combat to ensure they're useless.
- Our Battlewagons: Now our Boyz take more casualties when our Battlewagons blow up, and our Battlewagons blow up a hell of a lot more often thanks to AP2 and Open-topped ensuring that ANY penetrating hit from an AP2 weapon (of which there are TONS) means they explode on a 4+.
- Our fliers: Mostly overpriced and useless.
- Thanks to casualty removal from the front our Boyz can never footslog across the field.
- Thanks to changes in Assault, using Trukks with a paldry 12 Orks isn't viable anymore, even in swarms.

So after all that, what are you left with as one of the strengths of the Ork codex? Shooting. Who are our best shooters? Lootas. Except they're not GOOD enough in 6th Edition for Orks to lean on them that heavily and still do well. Lootas used to be a balanced part of a good Ork army, but Boyz were the bread and butter. Lootas are not good enough to be the bread and butter of our army, and that's what 6th Edition has done to us.

In 5th edition, yeah Lootas were awesome. In 6th, they just can't perform to the degree we need them to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

To get Orks on the same level as AM, they're going to need a lot of changes. Horde just won't work with the number of blasts and anti-infantry firepower any IG list can put out now

Was anyone even playing horde though? Its so tedious. It could be auto-win and I'd never bother.

I play Horde lists.

But my double living tide Dual FOC Tyranid list is apparently forever banned from tournaments until shub niggurath swallows the sun.

(I'd field more but then I think they'd upgrade it to "when Azathoth awakens".)

After 6th Edition came out, my Tyranid friend could pretty much destroy my entire army, no matter what units I brought, with just two Flyrants. Granted, this was back in the days of the last Codex when Flyrants had Iron Arm, which made them much tougher. But after about a year of that, I put my Orks on the shelf. I haven't tried them against Tyranids in their new codex.

Except now my Tyranid friend is using 2 Crones and 2 Flyrants. I just don't think I'll bother. Even with two Dakkajets I've got nothing to compete with that.

Actually theyre not as bad as you may think. Yes theres 4 of them in the air and yes theyre fairly tough, but theyre no more than T6 now and thats huge. I feel your pain in the old tyranid dex vs orks though. I felt like the flyrant was the only thing i gave a crap about because i either couldnt hurt it, hurt it on 6s, or had to somehow get Ghazzy in combat with it. Unless he biffed his iron arm (which never happens) even my lootas couldnt take it out that well.

Now that theyre fixated T6 they die a lot faster than before. Every time the old flyrants would flop and be T6 or T7 i would focus fire the crap out of them with anything that could still hurt them because i knew if it got T8 at turn 3/4 then i was boned as i couldnt even hurt it in melee w/o pklaws, which are challenged out or splatted before they can swing.

Its still tough as nails as orks but it isnt faceroll anymore. Try it again, you may notice a drastic difference. Tyranid dex in short (IMO) was nerf the big bad bug, buff the rest so theyre all "good" and none is "nasty" anymore.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Actually theyre not as bad as you may think. Yes theres 4 of them in the air and yes theyre fairly tough, but theyre no more than T6 now and thats huge. I feel your pain in the old tyranid dex vs orks though. I felt like the flyrant was the only thing i gave a crap about because i either couldnt hurt it, hurt it on 6s, or had to somehow get Ghazzy in combat with it. Unless he biffed his iron arm (which never happens) even my lootas couldnt take it out that well.

Now that theyre fixated T6 they die a lot faster than before. Every time the old flyrants would flop and be T6 or T7 i would focus fire the crap out of them with anything that could still hurt them because i knew if it got T8 at turn 3/4 then i was boned as i couldnt even hurt it in melee w/o pklaws, which are challenged out or splatted before they can swing.

Its still tough as nails as orks but it isnt faceroll anymore. Try it again, you may notice a drastic difference. Tyranid dex in short (IMO) was nerf the big bad bug, buff the rest so theyre all "good" and none is "nasty" anymore.

The Tyranid book as a whole really mostly just has living artillery, dakkafexes, and skyblight swarms going for it.

Your average Tyranid list just wants to cram in as many skyblights and FMCs as possible with a bare minimum of anything else.

It's every bit as monobuild as the old book's Tervigon and Flyrant spam.

On the subject of Lootas you could have the # of shots tied to BS like that one new Tyranid model no one uses:

Roll for shots D3 as is now:

3 shots at BS1
2 shots at BS 2
1 shot at BS 3

Basically the more the Loota fires, the less accurate he is.

Still allows for awesome randomness.

 PipeAlley wrote:
On the subject of Lootas you could have the # of shots tied to BS like that one new Tyranid model no one uses:

Roll for shots D3 as is now:

3 shots at BS1
2 shots at BS 2
1 shot at BS 3

Basically the more the Loota fires, the less accurate he is.

Still allows for awesome randomness.

confusing, and the expected number of hits is the same. Unless he is moving and all the shots would be BS1 anyway.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 zachwho wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I'm worried they'll try and take Orks in a serious way. Kind of would be disappointed with out the humour.

ihope they remove the humor on the table top. fluff wise its funny, but when it translates over to.the table, its annoying.

orks are a race bred and raised for war, combat, and killing. they shouldn't be 40k slap stick comedians.

And they've been like this since Rogue Trader.

They are both serious and silly, they've got funky tech that works oddly, but in spectacular ways.

If you can't really take both sides, you might want to try some other race.

i do play other races, orks are in a dusty box in the closet.i know they've been random and "funky" since 3rd, doesn't make
my opinion any different. i hope they remove some of the silliness from them. a galaxy conquering race of warbred killing machines doesn't compute as silly to me.