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Relapse wrote:
You don't think a teacher grinding on a kid and putting her head between his legs is molestation?

Dude. The Teacher in the OP is going to lose her job, and never work as a teacher again because her behavior was inappropriate and wrong. But comparing it to this, is nonsensical.

The Teacher in the OP probably won't even go anywhere near a jail because, surprise, legally her actions don't amount to any charges of abuse. At most its indecency with a minor and even then, that's a really low level of it. That kid isn't scarred for life. He's not going to suffer any trauma, and in a year it's not even going to a blip on his radar except as a funny story he tells his friends.

 LordofHats wrote:

Relapse wrote:
You don't think a teacher grinding on a kid and putting her head between his legs is molestation?

Dude. The Teacher in the OP is going to lose her job, and never work as a teacher again because her behavior was inappropriate and wrong. But comparing it to this, is nonsensical.

The Teacher in the OP probably won't even go anywhere near a jail because, surprise, legally her actions don't amount to any charges of abuse. At most its indecency with a minor and even then, that's a really low level of it. That kid isn't scarred for life. He's not going to suffer any trauma, and in a year it's not even going to a blip on his radar.

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

Relapse wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I am speaking as a parent and based the damage I have seen this do to families.

So your concern yourself with the family, and not the child?

I concern myself with everyone involved. I thought that was pretty obvious. Don't even try to twist my words on this one, Dogma, I had a daughter that a molestor tried to get at, and would have if my wife hadn't been on hand to stop him, so don't pretend I have no care about the child.

Wow this is pretty disgusting, the fact that you are actively marginalizing victims of sexual abuse without an ounce of sarcasm is a new low on Dakka.

 Cheesecat wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I am speaking as a parent and based the damage I have seen this do to families.

So your concern yourself with the family, and not the child?

I concern myself with everyone involved. I thought that was pretty obvious. Don't even try to twist my words on this one, Dogma, I had a daughter that a molestor tried to get at, and would have if my wife hadn't been on hand to stop him, so don't pretend I have no care about the child.

Wow this is pretty disgusting, the fact that you are actively marginalizing victims of sexual abuse without an ounce of sarcasm is a new low on Dakka.

You are making a fairly ignorant statement if you think I am marginalizing the attempted molestation of my daughter. I get very protective of kids in these situations. You might not give a damn, but I do.

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

How many male, high school age students do you think would respond negatively to sexual stimulation?

It is is pretty obvious that you are simply very uncomfortable with sex.

Relapse wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I am speaking as a parent and based the damage I have seen this do to families.

So your concern yourself with the family, and not the child?

I concern myself with everyone involved. I thought that was pretty obvious. Don't even try to twist my words on this one, Dogma, I had a daughter that a molestor tried to get at, and would have if my wife hadn't been on hand to stop him, so don't pretend I have no care about the child.

Wow this is pretty disgusting, the fact that you are actively marginalizing victims of sexual abuse without an ounce of sarcasm is a new low on Dakka.

You are making a fairly ignorant statement if you think I am marginalizing the attempted molestation of my daughter. I get very protective of kids in these situations. You might not give a damn, but I do.

Hey, I'm not the one who compared child molestation to the more trivial act of a public lap, dance that was your own doing.

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life.

Doesn't make it right, but then no one was assaulted, abused, or raped, and an inappropriate lap dance is not an afront to families the world over.

 LordofHats wrote:
Good point. Child molestation actually results in more psychological damage in most cases than the rape of an adult. Both are still a completely separate world from getting an inappropriate lap dance from your teacher.

I dunno. I bet somebody could make an unlawful contact case. That's straight onto the sex offender registry.

 Seaward wrote:

I dunno. I bet somebody could make an unlawful contact case. That's straight onto the sex offender registry.

Oh she's definitely on the sex offender registry.

Still want to know what was going through her head. The first rule of being a teacher is that just because you're kids tell you to do something, doesn't mean you should XD

 Cheesecat wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I am speaking as a parent and based the damage I have seen this do to families.

So your concern yourself with the family, and not the child?

I concern myself with everyone involved. I thought that was pretty obvious. Don't even try to twist my words on this one, Dogma, I had a daughter that a molestor tried to get at, and would have if my wife hadn't been on hand to stop him, so don't pretend I have no care about the child.

Wow this is pretty disgusting, the fact that you are actively marginalizing victims of sexual abuse without an ounce of sarcasm is a new low on Dakka.

You are making a fairly ignorant statement if you think I am marginalizing the attempted molestation of my daughter.

Hey, I'm not the one who compared child molestation to something as trivial as a public lap dance...

Wow, just wow.


Just read some of what I wrote earlier, because I don't feel like repeating myself to someone who has an attitude so far removed from mine on this subject that he doesn't think what this teacher did is a form of molestation.

Just read some of what I wrote earlier, because I don't feel like repeating myself to someone who has an attitude so far removed from mine on this subject that he doesn't think what this teacher did is a form of molestation.

Makes wild comparison, gets called out on it. Declares everyone who disagrees with wild comparison as supporting child molestation. A new low indeed.

 LordofHats wrote:

Makes wild comparison, gets called out on it. Declares everyone who disagrees with wild comparison as supporting child molestation. A new low indeed.

Don't forget the "I have kids!" defense.

 LordofHats wrote:

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life.

Doesn't make it right, but then no one was assaulted, abused, or raped, and an inappropriate lap dance is not an afront to families the world over.

So the kid is never negatively affected? Glad you think so:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/kathryn-camille-murray-teacher-sex_n_4643693.html


http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1277

Hey you don't have kids Dogma. You aren't allowed to talk about them. Look away or we'll have to call the cops. You're clearly eye banging little Bobby.

Shame on you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/22/kathryn-camille-murray-teacher-sex_n_4643693.html


http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1277

Still not getting that whole lap dance != sex assault/sex bit eh?

I just talked to some friends I have in Houston, they are very angry at how the government has handled the case. They said that the teachers have been maintaining students labs for generations and that there is no reason why federal rules have to force the school to fire the teacher.

It's going to get ugly down there...

 LordofHats wrote:
That kid isn't scarred for life. He's not going to suffer any trauma, and in a year it's not even going to a blip on his radar except as a funny story he tells his friends.

How do you know ?

 dogma wrote:
How many male, high school age students do you think would respond negatively to sexual stimulation?

It is is pretty obvious that you are simply very uncomfortable with sex.

I am pretty sure that the second part of your message answer too the first part of your message : too many for assuming the students will just find this “a funny story to tell their friends”.

How do you know?

As to the trauma; The event does not amount to trauma. It's not even close. Acting like it is disservices victims of trauma by watering down their experiences. This is the stubbed toe of sexual no-nos. Equating it to abuse is fallacious.

As to the joke about it bit; because I was a teenager once. He's gonna be a super star.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

How many male, high school age students do you think would respond negatively to sexual stimulation?

It is is pretty obvious that you are simply very uncomfortable with sex.

How is this relevant when we are talking about a middle schooler?

 LordofHats wrote:

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life.

Doesn't make it right, but then no one was assaulted, abused, or raped, and an inappropriate lap dance is not an afront to families the world over.

Totally legit; he totally has the option of bragging about this lap dance or being derided as a 'homo' or 'queer' for not enjoying it. A teacher giving their middle schooler a lap dance is totally not sexual assault or abuse; it's just funny because it happened to a guy so ... different standards and all that. Wonderful that you get to decide when a child being abused by an authority figure actually counts as abuse so the rest of us can just relax and wait for your verdict. It's also good to know that male teachers can give hilarious lap dances to 14 year old girls and it will be laughed off.

 Bromsy wrote:
Totally legit; he totally has the option of bragging about this lap dance or being derided as a 'homo' or 'queer' for not enjoying it. A teacher giving their middle schooler a lap dance is totally not sexual assault or abuse; it's just funny because it happened to a guy so ... different standards and all that. Wonderful that you get to decide when a child being abused by an authority figure actually counts as abuse so the rest of us can just relax and wait for your verdict. It's also good to know that male teachers can give hilarious lap dances to 14 year old girls and it will be laughed off.

You don't have to preach to me about the double standard of machoism. The rape and abuse of men, especially by women, is one of the most under reported crimes in the world because they're not allowed to call it rape or abuse without their status as men being called into question.

If you care about that, as you apparently do, I suggest realizing that an inappropriate lap dance where no one even took their clothes off is not the above. Acting like it is is building a house of cards.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
Totally legit; he totally has the option of bragging about this lap dance or being derided as a 'homo' or 'queer' for not enjoying it. A teacher giving their middle schooler a lap dance is totally not sexual assault or abuse; it's just funny because it happened to a guy so ... different standards and all that. Wonderful that you get to decide when a child being abused by an authority figure actually counts as abuse so the rest of us can just relax and wait for your verdict. It's also good to know that male teachers can give hilarious lap dances to 14 year old girls and it will be laughed off.

You don't have to preach to me about the double standard of machoism. The rape and abuse of men, especially by women, is one of the most under reported crimes in the world because they're not allowed to call it rape or abuse without their status as men being called into question.

If you care about that, as you apparently do, I suggest realizing that an inappropriate lap dance where no one even took their clothes off is not the above.

It's still abuse man. Clothes coming off isn't the line of demarcation.

 Bromsy wrote:


It's still abuse man. Clothes coming off isn't the line of demarcation.

And yet, comparing it to predatory child molestation, still feels like bull gak.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:


It's still abuse man. Clothes coming off isn't the line of demarcation.

And yet, comparing it to predatory child molestation, still feels like bull gak.

... So what is the point where it is cool? What is the point where it is not? If grinding on middle schoolers is in the realm of acceptable, what behaviors would you put into the non acceptable vs totally fine realms?




*Sorry, I meant grinding on middle schoolers who you have some sort of responsibility over and for*

It's almost like you are pretending that the only two options are "it's totally cool for a teacher to give a fully clothed lap dance to a student " and "it's the same as a grown man systematically raping and abusing his child".

I think if a male teacher had rubbed his face in a girl's lap there would be a different reaction. This idea that it's not as bad for a boy, because it means he was lucky or gets to brag, doesn't fly. Why is there no such thing as unwanted sexual attention when you're a teenage boy? How do we know he enjoyed it? Because he went along with it under peer pressure and from the adult teacher? Even if he did slap her arse a few times, it doesn't mean he was keen for it. I know I wouldn't have enjoyed that sort of attention in school, it would have made me deeply uncomfortable. But not enjoying it would have made me gay I suppose.

Anyway, the teacher must have been insane to do this. I can't imagine anyone working in a school not agreeing, it's totally unprofessional and inappropriate. It undermines her professional authority over the class and it's an inappropriate level of contact with a student.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Why is there no such thing as unwanted sexual attention when you're a teenage boy?

For the same reason that the female never winds up with the rape conviction in the, "a drunk male and a drunk female have sex, and both regret it afterward," scenario.

Double standards. Some with merit, some without.

 Bromsy wrote:

How is this relevant when we are talking about a middle schooler?

I misspoke.

 Bromsy wrote:

... So what is the point where it is cool? What is the point where it is not? If grinding on middle schoolers is in the realm of acceptable, what behaviors would you put into the non acceptable vs totally fine realms?

I don't think anyone has argued that what she did should go unpunished, but rather that what occurred is not the equivalent of rape or any especially severe form of molestation.

 Bromsy wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:

 Bromsy wrote:
Totally legit; he totally has the option of bragging about this lap dance or being derided as a 'homo' or 'queer' for not enjoying it. A teacher giving their middle schooler a lap dance is totally not sexual assault or abuse; it's just funny because it happened to a guy so ... different standards and all that. Wonderful that you get to decide when a child being abused by an authority figure actually counts as abuse so the rest of us can just relax and wait for your verdict. It's also good to know that male teachers can give hilarious lap dances to 14 year old girls and it will be laughed off.

You don't have to preach to me about the double standard of machoism. The rape and abuse of men, especially by women, is one of the most under reported crimes in the world because they're not allowed to call it rape or abuse without their status as men being called into question.

If you care about that, as you apparently do, I suggest realizing that an inappropriate lap dance where no one even took their clothes off is not the above.

It's still abuse man. Clothes coming off isn't the line of demarcation.

No point in trying to talk to him about this. Going by the comments, he and some others here think it's totaly ok for children to be treated in this fashion by adults.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something to wonder about is why a 15 year old is in middle school instead of high school. Was he special needs, or vulnurable in some other way?
If so, this makes the teacher's action all the more repellant.

Relapse wrote:

No point in trying to talk to him about this. Going by the comments, he and some others here think it's totaly ok for children to be treated in this fashion by adults.

When did LordofHats, or anyone else, say such a thing?

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

No point in trying to talk to him about this. Going by the comments, he and some others here think it's totaly ok for children to be treated in this fashion by adults.

When did LordofHats, or anyone else, say such a thing?

You're kidding, right? Did you miss when he wrote this or other similar statements:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Then there is your comment to me because I object to a 40+ year old woman doing this to a 15 year old that" I am simply very uncomfortable with sex." Yes I am, when a child is molested in such a fashion.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

So you know the kid personally then and can make that statement without hesitation?

How many male, high school age students do you think would respond negatively to sexual stimulation?

It is is pretty obvious that you are simply very uncomfortable with sex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
After going through a year long trial process for the person who was fondling my daughter, seeing how it affected her, my wife and other children, and talking with other parents and children over the course of several encounter groups and counciling sessions and hearing their stories, I have developed very strong views on protecting children.

But of course opinions on things like this that are discussed seem to be brushed off with memes or "won't someone think of the children" attempts at humor which show little or no understanding of what people that go through this ordeal feel.

Relapse wrote:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."

Did you miss the repeated instances in which he said she should be punished?

Relapse wrote:

But of course opinions on things like this that are discussed seem to be brushed off with memes or "won't someone think of the children" attempts at humor which show little or any understanding of what people that go through this ordeal feel.

Probably because the people that broach the topic generally become irrational whenever their opinions are criticized.

Pro-tip: if you want someone who has no reason to care about your particular situation to take you seriously; do not argue from emotion.