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Disclaimer: This is not a Codex: Chaos Space Marines or Thousand Sons complaint thread, just a way for me and a friend to figure out which change people would be most open to playing against in a campaign. We already use the Re-roll Armor Saves of 1 + Aura of Dark Glory one in our group, where Mark of Tzeentch only does stuff for Psykers and gives hatred: Nurgle. I am simply interested to see how the poll turns out. On these questions, assume that Mark of Tzeentch isn't providing +1 Invul except in the case of the 3+/4++ (current rules).

I feel like the 2 Wound option is dead because of 6th Edition. That is the only one where I see a lot of abuse being possible. Not really abuse.. Just a mess!!! If you like the current 3+/4++, just select that for me if you will because it is a perfectly acceptable ruleset and of course universal world wide..

Thanks for the help guys.

If you're looking for a fix on Thousand Sons the uselessness of Soul Blaze is actually more of a problem than their durability; trying to work out an option that doesn't require excessive bookkeeping (my first idea was "for every hit with this rule the unit takes an extra hit from the same weapon next turn" but that could get messy fast), the best idea I've got right now is 6s to hit become 3 hits. Relatively simple and in-flavour for Tzeentchian battle plans (they're improbable but also devastating when everything falls into place just right).

There was an interesting concept about using AP to-wound instead of str. With limitations to min and max of 5+ and 3+

For example: Bolter shoots at rubric marine. It has ap5 so it wounds on a 5+. Heavy bolter shoots and wounds on a 4+, serpentshield wounds on a 5+, plazma wounds on a 3+.

what about the," it does not die" special rule that way when they get wounded they have a chance to come back cause their ghosts. XD

Reanimation protocols?

Yeah something like that.

The only reason I'd be against AP-to-wound is that a Str 7 shot that is Ap5 (for example), would more than likely knock over a Rubric Marine and not necessarily destroy it.

I appreciate the discussion. Keep voting away

Just a note, soul blaze makes them excellent grounders - if soul blaze goes off, which it will half the time, you'll get two grounding checks against a fmc.

Another poster suggested rubrics get something akin to special issue ammo. That could be something to look into.

I've recently used 2 wound rubric marines with Dust to dust

Dust To Dust
attacks that ignore this models armour save also inflict instant death

check out http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592075.page
to see how it worked and help with the codex revamp project

Just letting them re-roll failed armour saves of one, added to their current profile would give a reasonable boost vs small arms fire and be a simple and easy buff. Low AP weapons would put them back on their 4++ (no re-rolls), while allowing them to survive better than regular tacticals vs basic stuff; it also makes them tougher while keeping them different than plague marines. Their invulnerable save doesn't have to be nerfed to accommodate the armour save buff, as plague marines are already tougher vs AP1-3 with T5, FnP and cover.

What problem really needs to be addressed is that they have to take the aspiring sorcerer for 58 points (an HQ sorcerer only costs 2 point more at 60 points!). Allowing the AS to be a purchased option (that makes the unit relentless instead of SnP, and perhaps even allows the amour save re-roll mentioned above) rather than mandatory, plus a change to the powers he can choose from would go a long way in fixing 1k sons.

3+/4++, re-roll armor saves of "1"... that is wow.. and makes up for the cost.

I go with 3+/5+ Re-rolling 1's only because my Aspiring Sorcerers have access to Divination. Not sure about the 3++.

But this is just about the saves.. I'll leave others rules/changes/wishlisting out

 Toburk wrote:

What problem really needs to be addressed is that they have to take the aspiring sorcerer for 58 points...

Very much this. The sorc is what really makes the squad unique though so I think it should stay. It just needs to be worth its 58 pts, which is impossible given the current tzeentch tree thats has 3 outta 4 powers not even worth casting and 1 power thats decent but doesn't mesh well with the rubrics. Soul blaze needs a total rework and there's plenty of threads on it. If those two things are fixed i'd say leave the survivability as is.

Without fixing those issues they need to be a lot more survivable to pull the sorc's deadweight. I like the wound vs ap and/or 2W because its fluffy.

The aspiring sorcerer just needs access to diviniation to make him better.

As a point of reference, GK purifiers are 24 points for normal marine stats +1 attack. They are also fearless, have force weapons and a couple psychic powers. Something along those lines is probably good for rubric marines, except extra durability vs the extra attack, and AP3 bolters vs force weapons.