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This is what GW Dublin posted on facebook

24-05-14...


So 7th edition is real.

 undertow wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I highly doubt percentages, that would be too restrictive on what you can take and do. They have been going out of their way to prevent limitations on what you can take.

It has been all about giving you the options and I like it more that way.

I'm completely new, and i don't know gak. Im only working on the old cadian battle force i got off ebay right now.
I want to make my army only use valkyries/vendettas, veterans, heavy weapons teams, and sentinals. Would that means that i now am almost required to get tanks even if they go against my fluff and what i want to do with my army?

No. The percentage system means you have a min and max ammount of points and can spend in each unit.

So no more then 25% of your army can be heavy support units. So at 2000 points you can't buy more then 500 points of heavy support for example.

If it's true troops will be a mandatory 40% of your points, that means at 2000 points ATLEAST 800 points of your army must be invested in troops for example.

If that's true I'm going to have to seriously re-think my choice of armies. I've played Daemons for the last three years and I've almost never taken more than the minimum required troops. I dislike horde-ish armies, and being forced to take 800 points of Daemon troops (which aren't that good) would have me thinking of switching armies or even just not playing for a while.

In all honesty, if it's true I highly dought it will be 40% troops min.

In fantsey it's:
25% max on Lords
25% Max on Heros
25% min on Core
50% max on Specail (No more then 3 of the same unit choice*)
25% max on Rare. (No more then 3 of the same units choice.*)

*(Double this for every 3000 points you are playing)


So to me the equivalent in 40k would be:
25% max on HQ's
25% min on Troops
50% max on elites (No more then 3 of the same units choice.*)
25% max on Fast Attack (No more then 3 of the same units choice.*)
25% Max on Heavy Support (No more then 3 of the same units choice.*)

*(Double this for every 2000 points you are playing)

Percentage based systems seems unlikely - plus if troops includes dedicated transports................better for some armies than others.

Um... guys who are talking about "fewer large kits being sold" like it would affect GW's bottom line? Let me explain something to you.

While it skews with stuff like a Wraithknight versus Guardians in an Eldar army, typically the number of boxes of models you'd need to buy for Troops to equal the points you're no longer bringing in vehicles will see you spending as much as or more than you would for the large models.

Also, since part of their business model is to make veteran players buy more stuff as often as possible, it makes sense to shift the dynamic of the game once again in order to convince people to buy a lot of new models. If you went big model heavy, well, they've already got that money and now you can spend more buying Troops.

Percentages aren't a horrible thing. I'd just be surprised if they actually went back to using them. Yes, BACK to. For you folks who weren't around for it, 2nd edition had percentages. And allies, too, so no, they're not a "new" thing in 6th edition. Percentages also work well in WFB, and people can still take plenty of large models, especially as the game size increases (i.e. I've seen a 3000 point Chaos Warriors list with Lord on Manticore, three Chimeras, and a Hellcannon or two).

 Mr Morden wrote:
Percentage based systems seems unlikely - plus if troops includes dedicated transports................better for some armies than others.

I would assume Dedicated Transport would be in the percentage slot for the unit it was bought with.

So a landraider for a termy squad would eat into elites, or a Rhino on a tac squad would contribute to your troops.

I can't think of how that would benafit other armies then more untill you know what the %'s are.

A couple of related questions Lockark, since you're more familiar with Fantasy than I am. How are allies handled in Fantasy? I know there's a chart, but how do their points figure into your army's total? Also, are there equivalents to the various other FOC bits in Fantasy? Things like the Lords of War, Fortifications, Formations, etc.

 MrGiggles wrote:
A couple of related questions Lockark, since you're more familiar with Fantasy than I am. How are allies handled in Fantasy? I know there's a chart, but how do their points figure into your army's total? Also, are there equivalents to the various other FOC bits in Fantasy? Things like the Lords of War, Fortifications, Formations, etc.

The Fantsey Ally system is meant for 2v2 games. Nothing like the 40k one.

Fortifications is... Kinda? Their is a magic item you can buy on your lord to summon a building at the start of the game called a "folding fortress" or something. Beastmen have a heard stone teriran bit they can pay points for to can throw down at the start of the game also. Agien a item you buy on a lord if I remember right.


They put formations in Fantsey, and they are terrible to take as far as I was aware. Best to pretend they never happened.

Their is nothing like Lord of War, but their are big monsters. *Shrugs*

If %-based slots are true, then brace yourselves for thousands of Annihilation Barges.

 undertow wrote:
If that's true I'm going to have to seriously re-think my choice of armies. I've played Daemons for the last three years and I've almost never taken more than the minimum required troops. I dislike horde-ish armies, and being forced to take 800 points of Daemon troops (which aren't that good) would have me thinking of switching armies or even just not playing for a while.

I think I might enjoy playing that way... Right now I don't do it because the way the game plays means I need big scary stuff to deal with my opponent's big scary stuff. But if they couldn't bring as much, then it wouldn't be so bad bringing more troops, especially if there's no limit of 6 units. Every Tzeentch Horrors unit is a psyker, you can throw out spells left and right. Plaguebearers are tough buggers that could hold objectives. Bloodletters shred Marines (especially if they get to charge). There's some good stuff you can do with them, and assuming you don't roll pathetic like I do, the 5+ inv. save for everyone is pretty decent in keeping them alive (sure, not as awesome as 3+ armor, just eh, better than 5+ armor or 6+ armor). It's worth at least trying before you throw it out the window.

 mikhaila wrote:

Agreed. GW does NOTHING these days that makes sense business wise. Know what they have told me as a retailer? "Look at the poster in WD that says May 24th on the back". That's it. Won't even fething admit that 6th edition is on the way. The week before I asked about it, told nothing on the horizon, and re-ordered starter sets. Starter sets that the next week they took out of their stores and advise me not to sell. (Won't be eating them, one of their multiple personalities is generous and will probably credit me on them.)

I've been begging for information. Something confirmed that will let me plan a launch event for the new edition. Demo games, food, all night ironman painting, etc. The things i used to do when I'd order 100-200 of a new edition. Can't do that kind of stuff with a weeks notice. Hell, if I even put up the rumors from Dakka on my website with a 'wink wink, nudge nudge' to get pre-orders in, I"d be violating their current terms of sale.

So I don't know about 6th edition, no such beast. No planning for non existant product launch. And they wonder why # of units sold per product is going down.............

And that is why they are struggling. It's a pretty tragic state of affairs when they seem to hindering people trying to make them money. No wonder you get so frustrated by them!

 Sigvatr wrote:
If %-based slots are true, then brace yourselves for thousands of Annihilation Barges.

I don't have the nercon book, but at 2000 points, how many can you fit into 500 points?

I would also imagen they would have the "no more then 3 duplicated unit" rule from fantsey also.

Seeing as % went over like an airplane made out of bricks for WFB due to the massive amounts of models people need to play a game anymore, I just can't see GW doing the same for 40k. I honestly expect WFB to go more FOC based instead.

 Sigvatr wrote:
If %-based slots are true, then brace yourselves for thousands of Annihilation Barges.

Holy crap, that is actually pretty terrifying

 ErikSetzer wrote:
Um... guys who are talking about "fewer large kits being sold" like it would affect GW's bottom line? Let me explain something to you.

While it skews with stuff like a Wraithknight versus Guardians in an Eldar army, typically the number of boxes of models you'd need to buy for Troops to equal the points you're no longer bringing in vehicles will see you spending as much as or more than you would for the large models.

Also, since part of their business model is to make veteran players buy more stuff as often as possible, it makes sense to shift the dynamic of the game once again in order to convince people to buy a lot of new models. If you went big model heavy, well, they've already got that money and now you can spend more buying Troops.

Percentages aren't a horrible thing. I'd just be surprised if they actually went back to using them. Yes, BACK to. For you folks who weren't around for it, 2nd edition had percentages. And allies, too, so no, they're not a "new" thing in 6th edition. Percentages also work well in WFB, and people can still take plenty of large models, especially as the game size increases (i.e. I've seen a 3000 point Chaos Warriors list with Lord on Manticore, three Chimeras, and a Hellcannon or two).

It *might* balance out, but we can't really know either way.

Thinking about it, I will say this...going to a percentage system and presumably encouraging more basic troops sales might fit with an earlier rumor. Namely, that their next big push on the minis front will be recuts and redos for the older troop boxes.

For instance, what would be a better way to follow the 6.5/7.0/whatever release than with the long-awaited proper cultist kit and a new chosen/CSM kit? *Especially* with the Dark Vengeance box disappearing.

Doesn't really make the rumor more credible, but some pieces could fall into place if it's true. *shrug*

I really like the percentages. I can't wait until the end of the month.

 mikhaila wrote:
Agreed. GW does NOTHING these days that makes sense business wise. Know what they have told me as a retailer? "Look at the poster in WD that says May 24th on the back". That's it. Won't even fething admit that 6th edition is on the way. The week before I asked about it, told nothing on the horizon, and re-ordered starter sets. Starter sets that the next week they took out of their stores and advise me not to sell. (Won't be eating them, one of their multiple personalities is generous and will probably credit me on them.)

I've been begging for information. Something confirmed that will let me plan a launch event for the new edition. Demo games, food, all night ironman painting, etc. The things i used to do when I'd order 100-200 of a new edition. Can't do that kind of stuff with a weeks notice. Hell, if I even put up the rumors from Dakka on my website with a 'wink wink, nudge nudge' to get pre-orders in, I"d be violating their current terms of sale.

So I don't know about 6th edition, no such beast. No planning for non existant product launch. And they wonder why # of units sold per product is going down.............

And people complain when I make negative comments on GW management

 Lockark wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
If %-based slots are true, then brace yourselves for thousands of Annihilation Barges.

I don't have the nercon book, but at 2000 points, how many can you fit into 500 points?

I would also imagen they would have the "no more then 3 duplicated unit" rule from fantsey also.

I hope that there would be. In a regular game of 1850 points, you would be able to fit 5 Annihilation Barges in.

Loopstah wrote:
As "buying GW models" is the hobby as opposed to actually playing games with them the new rules for 7th edition will contain the following:

Each unopened box of GW models you place next to the table with a valid GW receipt earns you +10VP at the end of the game (+20VP if they belong to a different army than the one you are playing) (+30VP if they are for Fantasy) (+100VP if they are LoTR or Hobbit).

If you actually opened and built the models but still have a valid GW receipt then you get +1VP per box. (+2/ + 3 +10VP as per the categories above). Why are you actually playing with the models?

If your opponent can prove you bought the models 2nd hand then you roll 2D6 + 10 and remove that many eBayed models at the start of the battle.

Those GW receipt must be burned on the Alter of GW to gain VP. won't want people buying a bunch of boxes and then return to the store after the game or complain box contents are defective.

 nolzur wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
If %-based slots are true, then brace yourselves for thousands of Annihilation Barges.

Holy crap, that is actually pretty terrifying

Dude... Biovores. An 1850 list gets 11 at 25%, or 23 at 50% HS. That's a lot of templates.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Agreed. GW does NOTHING these days that makes sense business wise. Know what they have told me as a retailer? "Look at the poster in WD that says May 24th on the back". That's it. Won't even fething admit that 6th edition is on the way. The week before I asked about it, told nothing on the horizon, and re-ordered starter sets. Starter sets that the next week they took out of their stores and advise me not to sell. (Won't be eating them, one of their multiple personalities is generous and will probably credit me on them.)

I've been begging for information. Something confirmed that will let me plan a launch event for the new edition. Demo games, food, all night ironman painting, etc. The things i used to do when I'd order 100-200 of a new edition. Can't do that kind of stuff with a weeks notice. Hell, if I even put up the rumors from Dakka on my website with a 'wink wink, nudge nudge' to get pre-orders in, I"d be violating their current terms of sale.

So I don't know about 6th edition, no such beast. No planning for non existant product launch. And they wonder why # of units sold per product is going down.............

And people complain when I make negative comments on GW management

I personally enjoy your criticisms of GW, but is that really a fair shot to level at mikhaila? His complaints about GW's business practices have an inherent legitimacy because those practices have an effect on his livelihood. Your complaints are like most of ours, which are gripes of frustration from fans about a game. We are entitled to our frustration, but we aren't losing much if GW does a boneheaded thing. mikhaila potentially can and does lose money when GW does something stupid. Not really the same thing at all in my opinion.

To broadly address those making the point that percentages = fewer big models sold! therefore GW won't do it, I'd throw this out as a counterpoint.

Sales have fallen, up until Xmas at least, we currently do not know if the subsequent period has been better or worse. The "interim interim" statement certainly tells us it hasn't been hugely better, or they'd likely have said.

Therefore, while not necessarily the only choice, might one way of addressing the falling sales be focusing on making the main game more playable, with the aim of attracting new and returning players and encouraging those still playing to invest more? Certainly a % based force org would be one way of moving things in that direction, it certainly seems to have had a relatively positive reaction here, at least in theory.

Of course, I'm sure "buy moar plastic" will be the direction taken, but making the game more playable, and more popular, would certainly be one way of generating more cash.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 undertow wrote:
If that's true I'm going to have to seriously re-think my choice of armies. I've played Daemons for the last three years and I've almost never taken more than the minimum required troops. I dislike horde-ish armies, and being forced to take 800 points of Daemon troops (which aren't that good) would have me thinking of switching armies or even just not playing for a while.

I think I might enjoy playing that way... Right now I don't do it because the way the game plays means I need big scary stuff to deal with my opponent's big scary stuff. But if they couldn't bring as much, then it wouldn't be so bad bringing more troops, especially if there's no limit of 6 units. Every Tzeentch Horrors unit is a psyker, you can throw out spells left and right. Plaguebearers are tough buggers that could hold objectives. Bloodletters shred Marines (especially if they get to charge). There's some good stuff you can do with them, and assuming you don't roll pathetic like I do, the 5+ inv. save for everyone is pretty decent in keeping them alive (sure, not as awesome as 3+ armor, just eh, better than 5+ armor or 6+ armor). It's worth at least trying before you throw it out the window.

I own about 30 Pink Horrors, 10 Plaguebearers, 10 Daemonettes and 20 Bloodletters. That's not enough to run a 2000 point list even if I use all of them, which I wouldn't because Bloodletters are (IMO of course) horrible. All of those troops are 650 points, and granted I could swell that a bit by upgrading a model to a squad leader type and buying some Daemonic Rewards. Even if the limit is 25% I'm just not interested in fielding that many Daemon troops.

A switch to a percentage system, like many sweeping changes will disproportionately hurt some armies that have sub-par troops and will benefit others that have either amazing troops, options to make other unit types troops, or good dedicated transports that will swell up their troop point total. If there are problems with the game as it's currently played, those specific problems should be fixed instead of tacking on another rule system that will kill some power builds while creating new ones.

Relax, if it happens, it'll be a 25% minimum. This 40% thing is nonsense! and feel free to quote me on that after the event.

Percentage systems do not work to create balance, they never have. I play far more fantasy than I do 40k. You still have so many armys that are far more viable at a competitive level because the units they can take are just so much more effective than what competing armies can. Instead of seeing a few riptides maybe you'll see a sea of skaven slaves that for such a low point cost is going to tie up just about anything. I keep seeing so many people in this thread saying that if you have to take more troops that 40k would be so much better! No, in 40k troops imo are some of the most poorly balanced units across all of the codexes. Forcing you to take more of a bad unit against someones good unit doesn't fix anything.

40k needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

 the big goblin wrote:
This is what GW Dublin posted on facebook

24-05-14...


So 7th edition is real.

ZOMG! GeeDubya posted a 40k pic! This proves Half Life 3 is coming soon! Is there some hidden meaning in the Aquilla that I'm missing because GW uses that icon probably dozens of times each month in their various communications.

Tacohunter wrote:
Percentage systems do not work to create balance, they never have. I play far more fantasy than I do 40k. You still have so many armys that are far more viable at a competitive level because the units they can take are just so much more effective than what competing armies can. Instead of seeing a few riptides maybe you'll see a sea of skaven slaves that for such a low point cost is going to tie up just about anything. I keep seeing so many people in this thread saying that if you have to take more troops that 40k would be so much better! No, in 40k troops imo are some of the most poorly balanced units across all of the codexes. Forcing you to take more of a bad unit against someones good unit doesn't fix anything.

40k needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Agreed, but at this point it isn't going to happen, and percentages would help balance. I don't think anyone sees it as a panacea, but it would be a step in the right direction.

That's speaking as a Flying Circus Daemon player most of the time. Sure, it will hurt some players more than others, but if you do collect your armies the "GW way" (ie have a collection of models rather than a 'list') you're most likely going to be ok with perhaps a few tweaks. This is something I don't actually disagree with, I've always felt the 'right' way to collect an army is to choose a faction that really speaks to you and spend time and effort into growing it, rather than just picking whatever is most efficacious at the time and buying whatever is best from that army.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't approach army building with that approach, people must do whatever they feel they need to to get the most from their hobby time and money, but one has to acknowledge that it isn't the way GW want people to be buying armies, they want them to be buying large and extensive collections, and this could be a way of encouraging/rewarding this approach.

Every edition change requires you to buy something new to keep your army up to date. Things change, we follow. 6th was flyers and MCs. 5th was mech spam, etc. If the percentage thing is true, 7th might be a return to mass troops.

GW wants us to buy stuff every time a new book comes out. I’d doubt any rumor that would imply I could play my army as-is, unchanged.

Well, not me and my army personally. I play a TAC Ultramarine army with a little bit of everything. If it gets to the point where I can’t field my army, GW will have shot themselves in the foot in a mind-breakingly epic fashion.

 warboss wrote:

 the big goblin wrote:
This is what GW Dublin posted on facebook

24-05-14...


So 7th edition is real.

ZOMG! GeeDubya posted a 40k pic! This proves Half Life 3 is coming soon! Is there some hidden meaning in the Aquilla that I'm missing because GW uses that icon probably dozens of times each month in their various communications.

It's like the sign of the Illuminati.. that icon is watching you!

ZOMG! GeeDubya posted a 40k pic! This proves Half Life 3 is coming soon! Is there some hidden meaning in the Aquilla that I'm missing because GW uses that icon probably dozens of times each month in their various communications.

Haha... I was thinking the same thing. The Aquilla proves nothing.

Think i'm going to stick with 6/6.5 update rumours. A brand-spanking new edition with new FOC within such a short time-frame seems way out of whack, even for GW, especially half-way through updating 5th-6th codicies. They can still make money updating the rulebook with escalation/stronghold plus the errata/faq's/dataslates/fluff/etc.

I can still see the Dark Vengeance kit on the GW oz website as well. Not that this means much but you would think if a new BA/Ork or AM/E boxset was incoming they would be pulled or no longer available alongside the rulebook. That and I queried a stockist i used last week (before i even heard the rumours) who was happily ordering in new DV boxsets as i was looking to finally pick one up.

All in all, I think it'll be more a question of whether we are paying for updates for those who already have bought 6th (ie, all of us) or we get the updates for free as pdf/digital update.

Salt... salt everywhere...

More from Lords of War on Facebook:

Lords of War wrote:A new Realm of Battle board will be released with 7th edition. This board will have a "40k/City" theme and will be 6' x 4' with a travel bag like the current Realm of Battle Board.

Lords of War wrote:Is calling BS on the whole "percentages" for your forces in 40K.